Deviously Cursed Loot LE 9.0 (2021-03-09)

[Tenri]

8 minutes ago, GenioMaestro said:

Yes, of course, that is totally true and all players know it.

 

But think a bit.

You see a similar alert when you ADD a mod???    NO

You see a similar alert when your order your pluging list with LOOT???    NO

 

Then, make that things must not be a problem for the game. 

I was just pointing out a mistake in your statement.

I actually agree that most of the time updating midsave is not immediately gamebreaking, however I also accept then when a mod's author says not to update but to fresh install that there is a good reason for it.

 

As for the mod organiser or loot not complaining when adding or removing mods, how would they know if it is going to cause a problem? the only time a different load order effects anything is with saves.

 

And as for skyrim not complaining when adding to or changing the load order, it is only reading that all the esp's and maybe bsa's in the save still exist not what order they exist in.

[Gräfin Zeppelin]

18 minutes ago, GenioMaestro said:

Yes, of course, that is totally true and all players know it.

 

But think a bit.

You see a similar alert when you ADD a mod???    NO

You see a similar alert when your order your pluging list with LOOT???    NO

 

Then, make that things must not be a problem for the game. 

Excuse me but maybe you open a thread about that somewhere. Its really off topic.

[_SpaceHamster_]

Wow, so much great discussion about this mod and it's content, just amazing  

 

Make a seperate thread or stop whining. Keep this thread on topic.

[Mr Technician]

Guys, i have a save file with version 7.3 - gonna update to 8.0 in MO. Now, is it going to f*** up or i could continue to play Skyrim with upgrading to 8.0 DCUR and use my save file?

[GenioMaestro]

1 hour ago, Gräfin Zeppelin said:

Excuse me but maybe you open a thread about that somewhere. Its really off topic.

Yes, you have true. This forum is not for discuse that things. But i only answer to messages from others persons.

[GenioMaestro]

1 hour ago, Kimy said:

You know...if you're 100% convinced that my advice to use a new game with the newest DCL version is just a conspiracy on my part to delete as many Skyrim savegames from people's hard drives as I possibly can...

 

...why don't you just install it over your old games and see if it makes you happy? There is really no need to write novel-length essays about it. Follow my advice, or don't! I quite honestly don't care.

I only want determine if REALLY the new version 8.0 need be installed in a NEW GAME.

I only want know WHAT problems can i have if i install it in a clean game.

 

Excuse me but your simple word about a "NEW GAME is stricly necesary" is not enougth for me.

I want tecnical details and exact problems. 

If you can ofer it i can start think that you have true. 

 

For now, i have installed DCL 8.0 in a clean save, play my game for 7 days and i not find any problem.

For that, i think you are wrong. And i think is my OBLIGATION say it to you.

[DonQuiWho]

23 minutes ago, GenioMaestro said:

I only want determine if REALLY the new version 8.0 need be installed in a NEW GAME.

I only want know WHAT problems can i have if i install it in a clean game.

 

Excuse me but your simple word about a "NEW GAME is stricly necesary" is not enougth for me.

I want tecnical details and exact problems. 

If you can ofer it i can start think that you have true. 

 

For now, i have installed DCL 8.0 in a clean save, play my game for 7 days and i not find any problem.

For that, i think you are wrong. And i think is my OBLIGATION say it to you.

And tomorrow the Neolithic Gigamonster Hamster lurking out behind Broken Tower Redoubt, from Yabba Dabba Doo's 'Flintstone's in Skyrim 'R Us' mod, will burst out upon you, and shred your game to pieces as it conflicts with a past hangover from DCL's revised Misogyny Outcomes  Or whatever.  Who saw that one coming?

 

FWIW, Clairvoyance is an in game spell, and isn't a real world thing at all

 

Does that, said firmly tongue in cheek, but with serious intent, help?

 

Go play the game and, if you get lucky, enjoy it ?

[jigwigigx]

2 hours ago, jigwigigx said:

I haven't yet managed to escape from my prison cell yet and I would like someone to clarify for me if it is possible and does it depend on the level of difficulty of Crime in MCM? Am currently on an 8 day sentence for shouting in public at kinky/default level and going nowhere.  There is really no point in trying to escape at the lower and easiest levels as you only get 3 days, so that made me wonder if it is only possible at certain higher levels?

Update: Apparently there is a bug with the escape process which will be fixed with the next update. My latest escape attempt was foiled by the parole board who released my character 3 days early so it doesn't matter anymore. ?

2 hours ago, jigwigigx said:

 

 

[CursedGor]

Hm, suddenly there's a burst of vitriol with added toxicity in this thread. Mindblowing ?

 

There's a simple rule with any piece of software: author's code, author's rules. It's as simple as that. Everyone who doesn't like the rules is free not to use the software. Also, persistantly attacking technical advice with a sound basis just to "be right" does reveal some signs of inflated ego.

 

I think I will just start Skyrim and have some fun. To every modder out there, especially (but not limited to) @Kimy  (who has earned a break after the shit show in this thread): good job and keep on going! ?  Thanks for making this game so much more than it actually is.

 

Regards,

- CursedGor

 

[Raistlin_]

3 hours ago, donkeywho said:

And there it is.

 

Ask nicely.  Be grateful for what you do get.  Make interesting suggestions.  Provide positive contributions, for Kimy to choose to use, or choose NOT to use if they don't 'fit' her vision

 

And, all of us, EDIT: PLEASE, write in a fashion, and use decent translating software, that helps us all to avoid sounding like demented Ice Wolves outside Dawnstar

 

?

 

Hey demented Ice Wolves outside Dawnstar can't help themselves to get schools set up when dragonborns around every corner slaughter them. They're doing the best they can just to stay alive. #demented Ice Wolves outside Dawnstar

 

EDIT- ?

 

[Nazzzgul666]

5 hours ago, Zaflis said:

What i can do is imagine myself as mod developer of something similar in scale as DCL. How would i react if i had no such rule, and then someone did publish a patched mod with my script changed? To be honest, i would be proud of my work and of the community.

 

That's the wrong question, though. The better question would be, what would you do if somebody posted a simple guide how to add a feature that you refused to add, so everybody can do it on its own or leave it be.

[Raistlin_]

Thank you Kimy for the gift of this mod and your work. I really hope this doesn't get you to the point of pulling up stakes and moving on , a lot of these newer posts say all the nice things that im horrible at putting in to words. Just love your work , and thank you for it.

[TajZ]

2 hours ago, piotsze said:

Guys, i have a save file with version 7.3 - gonna update to 8.0 in MO. Now, is it going to f*** up or i could continue to play Skyrim with upgrading to 8.0 DCUR and use my save file?

So... this is the method I use. First you need to have both TESVSGM - Skyrim Savegame Manager. This tool is a absolutely useful in keeping your multitude of characters in order and also allows them to each have their own distinct save files - and most importantly, distinct Autosaves (my sister, wanted to kill me when I made a new character for Morrowind back in the day on her Xbox - and it overwrote her save - partially her own fault for not using manual saves back then). I have 9 profiles, and my newest one is how I first tested 8.0 (my older ones work just as well with this tool)

 

You will also need a Save Cleaner tool such as Skyrim Save tool.

 

Make sure you look at download page, dependencies, basic Install/uninstall order that most mod authors generally do with each update.

 

Here is what I do anytime I update ANY large mod to new version (I do this everytime Kimy updates DDA, DDI, or DDX).

 

Step 1: Export your current settings, NOT EVERYTHING will transfer, but it makes rebuilding a whole hell of a lot easier when you Import new version. (ANY mod that has an option to Uninstall from a Debug Menu i.e. Devious Helpers USE IT)

Step 2: Uninstall DCL/DCUR/CL (any of these acronyms) 7.3.

Step 3: Make sure to re-run LOOT, Wyre Bash (if you use it), as Laura constantly posts (support and download her mod, too!!) FNIS - EVERYTIME you Install/Uninstall mods that use animation libraries, hell just for good measure, it takes less than a minute for fok's sake.

Step 4: Load your latest save and make a BRAND NEW SAVE, do not overwrite an old one.

Step 5: Open Save tool, Under File box a) MAKE SURE that Auto-Backup is checked, b) click Open, c) select the latest save DO THIS PROCESS FOR EVERY CHARACTER.

Step 6: In the Minimum, Under Scripts a) click FixScriptInstances, b) click Clean other, c) Del. broken actives. Under Forms/mods d) click Clean formlists. Under File box e) click Save ANYTHING ELSE LOOK UP GUIDES.

Step 7: Install 8.0  with whatever body you use and graphics that work for your system as usual, then whichever extras you need such as Captured Princess if you use it.

Step 8: Same as Step 3. RUN FNIS!!!!!, Also RUN BodySlide (another one Laura constantly posts) select Outfit/body, Preset, and always checkmark Build Morphs, Batch Build, Build, whether or not you use HDT and Ok.

Step 9: Load your Save, NOT THE BACKUP.

Step 10: Wait for the game to run a bit, once you see Cursed Loot again under your Mod Configuration, import whatever settings you had and then choose the new Crime tab (and any other setting) and play the game.

 

I've had this work for characters that I started from way back in version 5.9. Updating any corresponding dependency as it came about ie DD 2.x, 3.x, 4.x, 

 

EDIT: I know a lot LESS, than most people on this thread, but this is my experience thus far, and no it won't be perfect, but it is far less buggy.  Although, everytime I get a new mod or update, sometimes it might take 5+ CTDs before it works smoothly. There is no magical panacea unfortunately.

 

[GreatCroco]

3 hours ago, GenioMaestro said:

It seems that I have a better understanding than you because I do not have any of those problems in my saved games. And I know very well why you have that problem and I know how to fix it.
If you want to explain it to you say it. I do not have any problems but it is quite technical and heavy.

Humor me. Lets see if my 13+ years of Elder Scrolls and Fallout modding are still relevant (on top of my 25+ years in general coding). I can understand technical details. It's my daily job to write mote complicated code that most of the people visiting this site will ever see in their lives.

 

3 hours ago, GenioMaestro said:

You and your manager are really doing it without notice it, but they do it.

I'm not changing my load order without me noticing. My manager isn't doing it either. Checking that is easy. Just spawn yourself an item from any mod, open the console and print out the id and then compare the first two digits with the load order digits you'd see that they are the same.

The only thing where this is not entirely true is for SSE ESPFEs where the form ids get "compacted" into the FE namespace (but in the order the mod is

in the general load order)

3 hours ago, GenioMaestro said:

All these rules do not have any technical support and do not appear in any of the web pages that support the game such as: step, gems, UESP, wiki, CK.
If you find any, please copy and paste.

I'll just shamelessly quote this post:

2 hours ago, Alkpaz said:

Gotta agree here, if there is changes to the scripts of DCL there will be issues in the save file, as Arthmoor and Ilja stated: 

 

"From Arthmoor:
"3. There is no such thing as a clean save. It does not matter who tells you there is, it doesn't exist in Skyrim. You cannot remove any mod, not even the patch, without there being some data that's been permanently changed. Doing this repeatedly WILL damage your save and WILL eventually lead to it becoming corrupt and unusable. Bethesda's own developers have confirmed the only way to properly remove a mod is to load a save made BEFORE that mod was introduced into the game. If you started a new game with 10 mods installed, you're going to be stuck with those 10 forever.""

 

"And, again from Ilja:

"I believe that misunderstanding here is that people can not make a difference between closing active scripts from the game world and wiping Papyrus script data from Papyrus. Latter is impossible to make in a clean way."
https://steamcommunity.com/app/72850/discussions/0/1495615865205745360/?tscn=1529568370#c1696043263497229374

"You can't uninstall most mods from ongoing game. Skyrim bakes script data to save files and unisntalling the mod does not remove it. It only causes errors in Papyrus scripting system."

 

source: https://steamcommunity.com/app/489830/discussions/0/1520386297681801135/

 

Most everyone agrees here, and anyone saying that "oh you can just patch it" doesn't know much about how finicky Skyrim really is. This isn't Oblivion or Morrowind, and this is why Arthmoor said what he said. Kimy would know more if she changed things too much in an update to cause issues in a save file. I would trust her when she says "you need to make a new game", because that tells you right there, that if you continue with your save, it will be borked. She isn't being mean, she is trying to save you.  But you can do what you want, she isn't holding a gun to your head. Give it a shot, just don't come complaining about issues that happen AFTER she told you to "make a new save". We have choices, after all. 

I'll also add this (incomplete) list of properties that are baked into the savegame and could cause issues:

https://www.afkmods.com/index.php?/topic/3676-skyrim-information-baked-into-saves/

The most problematic of those is probably the "Objects pointed to by Papyrus properties." and "Several fields on NPCs are known to bake in"

 

3 hours ago, GenioMaestro said:

Use your head a little, please. Your manager does not present any alert window when installing or uninstalling a mod. LOOT either. And the game either.
If the manger, the utilities and the game do not alert of any problem it will be because REALLY there is no problem

Neither of those (except the game) has any concept of a "mid-playthough" save, a warning would be as necessary as a sticker on your cars windshield that sharks are dangerous and that you shouldn't hit them with cotton candy (i.e. totally useless). The game can't give you a warning either since Skyrim doesn't version it's load-orders (aka: doesn't save a before and after) and just takes what it gets.

So to implement a warning someone would've had to do at least one of the following:

- Version load orders

- Teach mod managers and/or LOOT what a game in mid-playthrough is

 

3 hours ago, GenioMaestro said:

It seems that I have a better understanding than you because I do not have any of those problems in my saved games. And I know very well why you have that problem and I know how to fix it.

Pray tell. I'd like to know what my "problem" is and how I can fix it. And no, don't tell me savegame cleaner. I tested that the properties persisted.

 

3 hours ago, GenioMaestro said:

Want you to test ??? I have no problem explaining the steps one by one. And I also have no problem investigating a problem in your game if you collaborate.

See, i know what the problem is and how to fix it. It's called: Don't change your load order mid game.

 

1 hour ago, GenioMaestro said:

I only want know WHAT problems can i have if i install it in a clean game.

NOBODY can tell you that. This is dependent on a) Your load order b) how you changed your load order c) what you did in the game (aka: which properties have already been baked into the save).

A relatively early game will have fewer problems than a save five years old.

 

Oh btw: I don't use LOOT for sorting at all. It had done more harm than good. I'll just use it to scan for ITMs, NavMeshs and DIs.

[stas2503]

@Kimy I correctly understand that according to your conditions, I will not be able to translate your mod into Russian? After all, the translation directly changes the code in more than 160 mod scripts to correctly display the text from these scripts in Russian. 

I am not ashamed to say, but my translation of your mod, along with those who helped me translate it, is the best in the RuNet ...
If this is so, then it will greatly disappoint not only me, but also all the Russian-speaking users of your mod ...

[LesboIsBesto]

o boi 8.0??? Am l8 af & still on the last 6.x that works with DDi 3.0 lmao. really wanna update but still dont have enough mods updated for 4.0 compatibility yet \:

[Raistlin_]

19 minutes ago, stas2503 said:

@Kimy I correctly understand that according to your conditions, I will not be able to translate your mod into Russian? After all, the translation directly changes the code in more than 160 mod scripts to correctly display the text from these scripts in Russian. 

I am not ashamed to say, but my translation of your mod, along with those who helped me translate it, is the best in the RuNet ...
If this is so, then it will greatly disappoint not only me, but also all the Russian-speaking users of your mod ...

Q: Can I translate your mod?
A: I'd feel honoured! The only thing I ask for is a link to the translated string tables, so I can post it in Cursed Loot's official download page (yes, I do reserve the right to do so!) If you want to post the translated files outsides of LL, please ask for permission first. I am likely to give permission for non-English speaking communities outside of EU or NA and very unlikely otherwise.

 

 

 

The above is from her home page or download page or whatever its called so probably would be allowed. Just ask if wanting to post somewhere else first if I read that right.

 

EDIT- Oh and give her the link she asked for too :-)  .

[stas2503]

5 minutes ago, Raistlin_ said:

Q: Can I translate your mod?
A: I'd feel honoured! The only thing I ask for is a link to the translated string tables, so I can post it in Cursed Loot's official download page (yes, I do reserve the right to do so!) If you want to post the translated files outsides of LL, please ask for permission first. I am likely to give permission for non-English speaking communities outside of EU or NA and very unlikely otherwise.

 

 

 

The above is from her home page or download page or whatever its called so probably would be allowed. Just ask if wanting to post somewhere else first if I read that right.

 

EDIT- Oh and give her the link she asked for too :-)  .

From time to time I post archives with translated material in this thread of the forum, since I was already discussing this question, to which a positive answer was given ...
But in connection with the latest events, I decided to ask again.

[TajZ]

Hi Kimy, should have posted this a few weeks back.

 

First and foremost, thank you for the huge update that you provided been having a lot of fun. So what follows may already be down the pipeline in terms of content and fixes but please hear me out.

 

1. From since it was introduced, even with the "Use Ring gag" for use with needs mods checked - I am still consistently put in a ball or plug gag. New toon or not. 

         If I am reading some of your recent posts correctly, you are are already finishing a patch for this, looking forward to it.

 

2. This is with the Slave Rubber Gloves, you have an option of what would happen if that was marked. Even at 100% nothing happens UNLESS certain conditions are met, so far I have noticed that if you are in a gag, harness or ballet shoes/slave boots, nothing happens. However without those items, then the female npcs will initiate the "I like your rubber gloves" dialog and then lock your hands and elbows behind your back like the obviously kinky slave you are. Are there other conditions to have that happen with more frequency? Would it be remiss of me to ask on adding an extra line and reddening mark of a heavy swat on your rear after getting locked?

 

3. An actual leash being held by a slaver or dom? Collar or Nipple/Clitoral leashes.

 

4. I like Leah's new look, though not sure if she looks more dommy or more subby-bunny. I wonder if you can dominate her in the future as her "I like bondage, too; can't speak through a gag, I know I've tried" Bondage dialogue options attest to. etc. Heheh. Other looks for Doll maker as well as other Questgivers perhaps?

 

5. This is more to do with XDFF and could be the result of using MrEsturks "More XDFF rules for Deviously Cursed Loot", but I have noticed that if collared and with even a gag or chastity gear on, if your Domme makes use of you for her pleasure, no big deal it works as intended and you fulfill your sexual duties to her with whatever animations are selected. HOWEVER, if you are currently in an armbinder or hobble-(skirt, dress, jacket, etc.) each time 1 of 2 things happen a) your toon will instead try to masturbate - obviously unable to as her arms are unavailable or b) your domme will also then go into the same arms back trying to achieve release animation. In other words. if you your bound toon tries to offer herself willingly or if automatically, the game will start and interrupt any action to do the 'reach your button unsuccessfully' animation and then after enough time has passed, you are placed in stricter confinement for not pleasuring your mistress in time. Help please. I will also post to More XDFF rules thread as well if that is the conflict.

 

This has more to with the Prison system itself as well as options to be sent there.

 

6. I totally understand this is a total rehaul, you made it clear on front page of download, but I kind of wish it did not totally remove other options such as "I am Thane, you must let me go." I am ok with 'paying off bounty removed', but sort of wished you kept Thane options or even fare favorably on reduced sentence or with Parole Board. I do wish, it did not overrride some other mods. MrEsturk's SLUT Redux, although can still trigger it directly with Innkeepers or Stage Coach Drivers, but would be nice to have option. Also, I suppose lighter offences were removed anyway in under 1000 gold it seems.

 

7. The prison is great, but I wish there were more to do. Yes, this was a huge effort, so it may already be in the works but things such as actually being a Miner in the mines instead of just single piece haul or even a Crafter instead of finding the Prison Made items in the boxes and crates. So more activities would be very cool.

 

9. It would be cool if there was more dialog on a second or third sentence to the prison instead of restarting the same exact dialog again. "I'm glad you're back my favorite pet" says the warden. "Knew it was only a matter of time when you'd be sent back here." "Once a criminal always a criminal" "Of course you would re-offend" etc, and different lines from your standard guard, to the foreman, supervisor, quartermaster, warden and who not.

 

9. Maybe having your followers being sent in with you and bitching at you for getting them involved as well. 

    In terms of getting support with other mod creators that is between you and them as you have stated in many posts and I do respect it.

 

I am looking forward to the revamp of Sasha and Doll Maker and bound combat with Dragon Kick and Aggro Circus (River City Ransom ie Kunio-kun series reference) whenever it happens and you find an animator to collaborate with. Wagging tongue in anticipation.

 

Thank you again for all your work and dedication to keep this and the entire DD framework updated and alive.

[Tenri]

1 hour ago, TajZ said:

1. From since it was introduced, even with the "Use Ring gag" for use with needs mods checked - I am still consistently put in a ball or plug gag. New toon or not. 

         If I am reading some of your recent posts correctly, you are are already finishing a patch for this, looking forward to it.

IIRC that is specifically for the Cursed Collar quest since you could be locked into that gag for a while. You can set the relative chances for Ball/Ring/Plug(panel) gags in the devices tab for the regular cursed loot events.

[stas2503]

Wow ... I didn't expect to see such Leah ...

Spoiler

Cool...

[Roggvir]

Would this be safe to use alongside Open Cities?

[Straze]

I didn’t really like PoP due to some problems, so this latest update is a blessing! 

DDCL is one of my favourite mods, if I ran into bugs with some devices, the MCM always helped me out!

 

Thank you Kimy for developing this outstanding mod! 

[Inte]

On 3/23/2019 at 11:09 PM, Kimy said:

...is almost as laughable as anything ever said by Inte.

...just when I thought I was out, they pull me back in!

 

[Inte]

17 hours ago, Kimy said:

Your "solution" is making changes to my mod and my vision that I quite obviously didn't want. Which part of that is NOT hostile?

Let me preface what I have to say with this; technically you are correct and within your ‘rights’ to say that you do not want your intellectual property modified or changed in any way (even if it is for the better). 

 

But what if, 

...@Zadil (the originator of devious devices), felt the same, and didn’t allow @Min to use the DD assets to make them usable for all? Where would the DD community be? 
...@Min (the originator of DDi), before leaving would have said the same thing, “Kimy (or whoever) you are not allowed to make any changes to my DDi and my “vision”?”
...@xaz (the originator of PO and the code in ZAP, among other numerous code contributions for a lot of mods) would have said, “Inte, you cannot continue or touch PO (POP) in any way, it’s my vision, nor can you learn how to code because I will make PO and ZAP a ‘closed source’”.  
...@ZaZ (the originator of ZAP) would have prohibited @t.ara from continuing ZAP?  
...@jbezorg (the originator of SD) would have said, “Skyrimll @DeepBlueFrog, you cannot continue SD because it is my vision.”
...@DeepBlueFrog would have said, “Inte, you are not allowed to patch SD, if you do I will consider that a hostile act.”
...and on, and on.
...and finally Bethesda, would have said that same thing. 

 

They would be within their rights to stop their intellectual property from being modified, no? But, what would this community be composed of then? Tumbleweeds?

 

So, without this 'community' that you seem to disdain so much who would you be? 

 

So get over yourself and if you do not want to mod anymore, someone else will and can take your place. 
No one is irreplaceable.