Deviously Cursed Loot LE 9.0 (2021-03-09)

[Kimy]

5 hours ago, MaikCG said:

Will work.
This is not a patch, this is a solution.  DCL arrest is not turned off, only the level of the penalty at which it starts is increased. DCL prison only for the most brutal criminal.

 

It breaks a feature that I intentionally designed to be a non-optional core-feature of my mod. It switches off not only the prison but the entire DCL crime handling, including the outcomes I designed for less serious crime. Had I wanted for people to be able to turn it off, I'd have shipped a toggle for it. Your "solution" is making changes to my mod and my vision that I quite obviously didn't want. Which part of that is NOT hostile?

[Kimy]

2 hours ago, crazyduck said:

So which Rule exactly did he broke?

I didn't accuse him of breaking any. What he did qualifies what I perceive as an unfriendly act, no more, no less. Together with the rest of the few pages of this thread, it's making me wonder why I am still doing this...

[MaikCG]

This part is hostile to other mods and the vanila game.
I like 95% of this mod, I like what you give to adjust these 95% to the preferences of the player. But I do not like the fact that you ultimately cram another 5% of the content that breaks other mods and the game itself. Do the same with the other parts - customizability. And there will be no questions.

[Laura]

41 minutes ago, Kimy said:

I didn't accuse him of breaking any. What he did qualifies what I perceive as an unfriendly act, no more, no less. Together with the rest of the few pages of this thread, it's making me wonder why I am still doing this...

You probably do it because you like creating things, because of the overwheling support on your Patreon, because of the many possibilities you get when you make your own world, because of the feeling you get the first time your creation is playable and you see eveything come together, because of the many downloads, likes and comments praising your work.

[2dk2c.2]

On 3/23/2019 at 10:38 PM, Lupine00 said:

All kombucha has the same flavour, no matter what they say it is - unfortunately it all tastes like kombucha  Start worrying when you begin to like it.

 

There is some relevance to DCL in all this, in that is has been pointed out that nobody except Kimy is allowed to fix how DCL interacts with crime.

You are not allowed to patch or modify it.

 

Also turns out that the SLIF patch is banned too.

 

Possibly, people thought the intent of those rights claims was to prevent wholesale forking, but it turns out that they're highly relevant in another context, and this was intended all along.

 

At least as I understand it, correct me if I'm wrong, the intent was always to block any patch or modification to DCL, no matter how minor - at both the ESP and script levels?

 

I would guess as a corollary of this, that any ESP merging, or Tes5Edit of DCL is considered problematic ... that you can do it but ... you shouldn't ask for help on the forum if you do ... because the rationale is that any patching might break DCL. You should probably also make sure that DCL is last in your LO, in case anything overwrites it. I think I'm joking here ... but TBH it's getting a bit of a grey area. The first rule of modifying DCL is that you never talk about modifying DCL!

No stuff? "Not allowed to modify or patch it"?

People mod mods, it's a thing, I don't know if there are meetings about it or if some bright-bulb gets an (unauthorized) idea...

And as a non-modder (I've heavily modded my game but it doesn't count), I've got no right to publicly wonder.

But privately,

Who Rates?

Who does not?

It's a question.

[worik]

1 hour ago, Kimy said:

it's making me wonder why I am still doing this...

.. ? difficult to answer that. I'll try

 

Starting here, the last 10 pages involve .. let's guess it ... perhaps no more than 20 LL accounts, including your own. Tbh, I didn't count them.

 

To find the answer, I'd say the key might be found here: https://www.loverslab.com/files/file/1216-deviously-cursed-loot-v80-2019-03-11/

Quote from the side of the page, and highlighted the meaningful information in green

Spoiler

Quote

---

File Information

• Views   1,425,749
• Downloads   372,137
• Submitted   July 11, 2014
• Updated   March 12
• Requires
    SexLab, SL Aroused, DD Assets, DD Integration, DD Expansion, Bodyslide
• Special Edition Compatible  
  No

 

Technically we divide this by the number of your various version, because it has been told that some player update their mods as soon as the mod author releases an update...

The remaining number is both impressive and intimidating. At least for me.

Yet, I don't see that number in the posts here. So I assume (again) there might be a few thousands of players out there who keep playing and upgrading and playing and upgrading .... without complaining about anything.

 

Since I like numbers, I come to my conclusion that, by the numbers, you are doing something right.

Now, MY answer of your question "why" is, that you are doing it because you are doing the right thing in the right way.

 

I am having the feeling that you either didn't see that, or have forgotten it. Please forgive me my non-technical wall of text, but I felt it important to help you with an answer to your question.

[crazyduck]

6 minutes ago, worik said:

.. ? difficult to answer that. I'll try

 

Starting here, the last 10 pages involve .. let's guess it ... perhaps no more than 20 LL accounts, including your own. Tbh, I didn't count them.

 

To find the answer, I'd say the key might be found here: https://www.loverslab.com/files/file/1216-deviously-cursed-loot-v80-2019-03-11/

Quote from the left side of the page, and highlighted the meaningful information in green

  Reveal hidden contents

 

Technically we divide this by the number of your various version, because it has been told that some player update their mods as soon as the mod author releases an update...

The remaining number is both impressive and intimidating. At least for me.

Yet, I don't see that number in the posts here. So I assume (again) there might be a few thousands of players out there who keep playing and upgrading and playing and upgrading .... without complaining about anything.

 

Since I like numbers, I come to my conclusion that, by the numbers, you are doing something right.

Now, MY answer of your question "why" is, that you are doing it because you are doing the right thing in the right way.

 

I am having the feeling that you either didn't see that, or have forgotten it. Please forgive me my non-technical wall of text, but I felt it important to help you with an answer to your question.

For me its not that i dont like this mod or dont like Kimy i dont know her enough to like her or not like her.

 

For me there are open questions and not cause the License Terms are a problem it is cause what kimy seems to "read" from her own License Terms.

If she call something a hostile act if someone only show how to change 1 value using TESEdit i really dont get it, if kimy´s answer to that is something like "will modifiy it so it cant be changed anymore" i ask myself what her goal is.

 

If her goal is only that people can play her mod i dont see a reason why it would be that important that her crime feature kicks in from bounty value above 0, if someone want to have it start only if bounty above 1000 or 10.000 why not , whty its important for her that people also the people who dont want to use this 1 feature must use it?

 

Its not like the crime feature is the most important feature of this mod and without the entire mod would not work , possible some people dont like the walk of shame or the prison system from kimy, so why force it to the people?

[Psalam]

What is it about April and LoversLab? Last April I was on the ZAP thread defending T.ara from people who couldn't do what he does in their dreams. Now I find myself on DCL doing the same for Kimy. Perhaps T.S. Eliot had it right:

 

          April is the cruelest month springing flowers from the dead ground.

 

I am not going to say anything brilliant or even new. Laura Lokomootje has presented the basic facts and is entirely correct. Let me try, as I have before, to present it another way. Rule 1 of LL is that the site exists, first and foremost, for mod authors. It's nice that people like me can come here and use the material that they sweated over to make work. I am grateful for it. But, I am not the "target audience." It's like a restaurant that makes itself "hip" in order to attract celebrities knowing that, in turn, their presence will draw the hoi polloi (such as myself). Therefore, as I understand Rule 1, anything that makes a mod author "pissed off" is a violation of the rules. Failure to appreciate that, especially after said mod author makes it clear that they are "pissed off" is a violation of Rule 2 ("don't be a jerk"). So, if you are unhappy with this mod please, please make a better one. I really enjoy DCL but wouldn't complain if you can make a better one.

 

Speaking of making a better one, let's talk piracy here. When you take someone else's work and present it as your own, that's piracy. So, if you take parts of the mod and post them as your mod or "fix" then you are guilty of piracy. Kimy (and most of LL's mod authors) are completely fine with someone taking their mod and making changes to it for their own personal use. Once you move past that you must ask the mod author's permission prior to using their work. This is simply common courtesy. Pretending that you are simply showing how to use TES5Edit is not an excuse. I have an entire blog on how to fix and avoid CTDs. THAT is the place for "educating" people. Feel free to take the information you have and say "this is how to effectively use TES5Edit." Maybe, like me, you are interested in consolidating the information about the topic into one place to make things easier for people looking for it. However, placing it on this thread as a fix is arrogant and just plain wrong. Going further and telling the mod's author that she is wrong for not being understanding is RUDE (don't be a jerk) and wrong.

 

And speaking of telling the mod author that she is wrong it is the height of ingratitude to tell someone who's given you something for free, which has clearly been enjoyable for you or you wouldn't bother to be here, that she now has a further responsibility to you. To expand on a metaphor I've used before, it's not just telling someone who's given you a Toyota Camry that they're a cheapskate for not giving you a Lexus, it is also telling them that now that they've given it to you they are responsible for paying for the gas and oil change. Mods placed here on LL are available "as is" and "at the user's risk." No one is forcing you to use this mod or any other mod. Further, the mod author clearly has no responsibility to put out even the level of information available on this thread much less make known whatever you may want to know. I say "clearly" since there is far less documentation for most mods than there is for DCL. You may take her advice about the mod that she has created and is, therefore, intimately familiar with, or you can go off with it in your own manner (for your personal use) and deal with the consequences of doing that.

 

Lastly (only because I hate putting up a "wall of text") a mod's author has no responsibility to make patches for or to make her mod adapt to other mods. Members of the community may, politely, request patches or changes. My experience is that Kimy has been more open to those than most mod authors and is willing to give an explanation when she says "no" even if it is just "that is not the direction I want to take this mod in." Doing that IS entirely her right (see Rule 1 if you need clarification again).

 

So, please, can we now move on before the Moderators feel the need to delete the last four pages of posts becuase of "drama"?

[GenioMaestro]

44 minutes ago, Laura 'Lokomootje' said:

Comparing us not giving the answer you want to refusing to help a car accident victim is just wrong.

We've explained to you why the installation and upgrade instructions are the way they are. What else do you want from us?

 

The way this game works makes upgrading this mod difficult. You can try to clean the save yourself, but it's not 100% reliable so we don't recommend it.

How you do it is obviously completely up to you.

I had a few times where cleaning a save caused problems. The same goes for changing my loadorder mid playthrough, it broke my game once.

 

 

I always strive to be as friendly and calm as possible, but you're just going to far.

Demanding things like that is not cool.

 

Take a look at rule 1 and 2 of the LL guidelines.

The fact that I had to post the rules twice today makes me really sad.

I just give an example, maybe a bad example, but I said that this forum is not to discuss those things. Please, ignore that part.

 

Going back to my main question, I think I am using the correct words, I am not hostile and I try to get information in a cordial way. I know the rules and I believe that I am not breaking any rule by simply asking WHY something should be done.

 

And the only answer I get is because we say it. No one adds any proof or detailed explanation about the cause and nobody says what options do NOT work if a new game does not start. Maybe it's because there are none?

I have refuted all their explanations and I can show that DCL version 8.0 works perfectly with a clean save.
Can anyone prove that DCL version 8.0 does NOT work properly in a clean save?

 

To say that something is in a certain way and manner without providing any evidence, documentation or proof is not enough for me. We are not talking about a mathematical theory or an axiom.
We are talking about something that anyone can do, verify and demonstrate in their own game, as long as they are not afraid to do those things and have enough interest to prove it.

 

If someone tells me that I should do something in a certain way the first thing I ask is WHY.

And when they give me the explanations I see if they coincide with my ideas. And if they do not coincide I try to get more information because it is clear that something does not fit.

And when they tell me it's because of this, that's why I go, I try it and I check it. And it determines who is right. Because it is impossible for two people to say different things about the same problem. One of the two must be wrong.

 

If it's me, please show it. But if the error is in other people, you will have to admit it, because in this particular case, who can prove the position with proofs, explanations and evidences is me.

 

I ask again: Where is the evidence that version 8.0 does NOT work properly in a clean save?
Has anyone verified it?  Can someone prove it ?? Because I can prove otherwise.

[crazyduck]

3 minutes ago, Taki17 said:

Springtime and hormones. Reddit went crazy as well, for example.

I dont see where my posts are agressive , mean, bad or something like that, i just ask few questions i have about things i really dont understand.

 

sure i can understand if kimy say she will not add some sort of Slider to her MCM so people can set a Mininum bounty before her crime system starts.

But i cant understand why its a hostile act if someone show with a screenshot which value must be changed.

Also i cant understand why for kimy its offensive , bad, mean whatever if someone say he or she dont want her crime system to work from bounty >0 but want it to work from Bounty >1000 or more. If this people change the value using TESedit its not stop other people from not doing it and iut also dont force kimy to support it or to add a slider to MCM.

But it also dont force Kimy to modify the mod so it cant be changed that easy anymore

 

and posting it in this thread i dont see why this is offensive , it woudl be if he had uploaded a modified arrestscript from cursed loot

 

But possible i´m just to stupid to understand that or its cause english is not my native language, if there are any real reasons why its important that the cirme system from cursed loot is always active and not only after reaching a set Bounty value kimy could easily explain why , would stop this entire discussion i think.

 

[Rogwar002]

5 hours ago, GenioMaestro said:

4 - Why??? What are that special things that make IMPOSIBLE the upgrade.

Users.

Simple as that. Users. Because not everyone is a skilled pro / expert / nerd whatever...

That is why modders are suggesting to make a new save.

Clean your save. Add every mod you want, but don´t suggest inexpierenced young adults should do as you do, without having a clue what they do.

Even you had a learning curve, am I right? So did I. Be constructive. Not destructive.

 

regards

Rogwar.

[Psalam]

Quote

11 minutes ago, crazyduck said:

I dont see where my posts are agressive , mean, bad or something like that, i just ask few questions i have about things i really dont understand.

 

sure i can understand if kimy say she will not add some sort of Slider to her MCM so people can set a Mininum bounty before her crime system starts.

But i cant understand why its a hostile act if someone show with a screenshot which value must be changed.

Also i cant understand why for kimy its offensive , bad, mean whatever if someone say he or she dont want her crime system to work from bounty >0 but want it to work from Bounty >1000 or more. If this people change the value using TESedit its not stop other people from not doing it and iut also dont force kimy to support it or to add a slider to MCM.

But it also dont force Kimy to modify the mod so it cant be changed that easy anymore

 

and posting it in this thread i dont see why this is offensive , it woudl be if he had uploaded a modified arrestscript from cursed loot

 

But possible i´m just to stupid to understand that or its cause english is not my native language, if there are any real reasons why its important that the cirme system from cursed loot is always active and not only after reaching a set Bounty value kimy could easily explain why , would stop this entire discussion i think.

 

 

You are likely correct that the fact that English is not your native language is part of the problem with communication here. Regardless, what you have been told is correct, your words seem to be hostile when read in whatever translation you are using.

 

Might I suggest that you don't have to understand it, you merely have to accept it. If you want to PM me about how to use English more effectively I will be happy to help you as best I can - off this thread.

 

I would also politely suggest that if you drop your insistence on an explanation of the crime system this entire discussion would also cease. If Kimy chooses to use her free time between Real Life (RL) and the many mods that she has authored to answer that question I would find it lovely. However, since this is her thread and her mod I would, politely again, suggest that what would be more appropriate is for you to 1) accept things as they are, 2) drop the topic and 3) offer an apology to Kimy with the defense that the problem is likely a language barrier.

[Rogwar002]

49 minutes ago, worik said:

Since I like numbers, I come to my conclusion that, by the numbers, you are doing something right.

Now, MY answer of your question "why" is, that you are doing it because you are doing the right thing in the right way.

 

I am having the feeling that you either didn't see that, or have forgotten it. Please forgive me my non-technical wall of text, but I felt it important to help you with an answer to your question.

Very Very true!

So: Thumbs up for you and for @Kimy❤️

[crazyduck]

1 minute ago, Psalam said:

You are likely correct that the fact that English is not your native language is part of the problem with communication here. Regardless, what you have been told is correct, your words seem to be hostile when read in whatever translation you are using.

 

Might I suggest that you don't have to understand it, you merely have to accept it. If you want to PM me about how to use English more effectively I will be happy to help you as best I can - off this thread.

 

I would also politely suggest that if you drop your insistence on an explanation of the crime system this entire discussion would also cease. If Kimy chooses to use her free time between Real Life (RL) and the many mods that she has authored to answer that question I would find it lovely. However, since this is her thread and her mod I would, politely again, suggest that what would be more appropriate is for you to 1) accept things as they are, 2) drop the topic and 3) offer an apology to Kimy with the defense that the problem is likely a language barrier.

Look i have really no Problem if kimy keep the crime system as it currently is its her decision, for me it would become a problem if she make it imposible to modify the values for it, cause i like her mod but i dont like her crime system enough that i would have it active always. and that she want to make it impossible to change it she said some posts earlier or did i read it wrong?

 

As is said i like cursed loot as mod sure, if not i would not complain or ask . But i dont like getting sent to kimys prison and doing x days in a row the same stuff each day or getting send to a walk of shame asking XXX NPC for a key and hope somoen has it and not like last walk of shame no one in entire city had a key or offered the needed dialogue option.

[GenioMaestro]

6 minutes ago, Rogwar002 said:

Users.

Simple as that. Users. Because not everyone is a skilled pro / expert / nerd whatever...

That is why modders are suggesting to make a new save.

Clean your save. Add every mod you want, but don´t suggest inexpierenced young adults should do as you do, without having a clue what they do.

Even you had a learning curve, am I right? So did I. Be constructive. Not destructive.

 

regards

Rogwar.

I can understand that and i'm happy with the people that say the true.

I can accept instructions that say: "Is recomended start a new game but you can make a clean save if you want"

But i can NOT accept whitout discusion instructions that say: "You MUST start a new game" whitout give any motive or explanation. 

 

If the instructions and the ideas of the people must be changed that is my constructive point.

As i said, I only want determine if REALLY the mod have a problem or not.

[Psalam]

Quote

1 minute ago, crazyduck said:

Look i have really no Problem if kimy keep the crime system as it currently is its her decision, for me it would become a problem if she make it imposible to modify the values for it, cause i like her mod but i dont like her crime system enough that i would have it active always. and that she want to make it impossible to change it she said some posts earlier or did i read it wrong?

 

As is said i like cursed loot as mod sure, if not i would not complain or ask . But i dont like getting sent to kimys prison and doing x days in a row the same stuff each day or getting send to a walk of shame asking XXX NPC for a key and hope somoen has it and not like last walk of shame no one in entire city had a key or offered the needed dialogue option.

 

I can appreciate your frustration and, maybe, if you can remove some of that frustration from the tone of your posts you will be more apt to get the sort of answer you want. There is an English proverb which I hope translates for you "you catch more flies with honey than with vinegar." If, once again, you post your concerns as simple statements (avoiding all absolutely unnecessary adjectives) and ask, politely, for help and/or an explanation you might actually achieve that for which you are searching. I still, politely, recommend an apology, but that, of course, is completely up to you.

[Kimy]

1 hour ago, MaikCG said:

This part is hostile to other mods and the vanila game.
I like 95% of this mod, I like what you give to adjust these 95% to the preferences of the player. But I do not like the fact that you ultimately cram another 5% of the content that breaks other mods and the game itself.

Then stop using my mod!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[crazyduck]

8 minutes ago, Psalam said:

I can appreciate your frustration and, maybe, if you can remove some of that frustration from the tone of your posts you will be more apt to get the sort of answer you want. There is an English proverb which I hope translates for you "you catch more flies with honey than with vinegar." If, once again, you post your concerns as simple statements (avoiding all absolutely unnecessary adjectives) and ask, politely, for help and/or an explanation you might actually achieve that for which you are searching. I still, politely, recommend an apology, but that, of course, is completely up to you.

i think i did that some pages ago and after kimy told me no pop comaptibility unti inte make his mod 100% dd compatible it was ok for me also after she said i can patch it myself but not allowed to share the modified files.

 

For me there are not really many question open for now.

Current Question i have are

 

1 Why its needed and no chance to not have it this way, that her crime system handle every bounty from 1 up to unlimited

2. would it break other parts of the mod if the crime system only kicks in if you reach 1000 or 10.000 bounty or never starts cause you set bounty to a super high value

3 why it would be a problem for her if people modify this value and dont use her crime system for all bountys .

4 why she now thinks she must change it so people cant easily modify this value.

 

So for me this are 4 simple questions and i dont see a problem asking this questions.

If you think this questions are still agressive would be nice if you can translate them into a not so agressive version .

[Psalam]

Quote

8 minutes ago, crazyduck said:

i think i did that some pages ago and after kimy told me no pop comaptibility unti inte make his mod 100% dd compatible it was ok for me also after she said i can patch it myself but not allowed to share the modified files.

 

For me there are not really many question open for now.

Current Question i have are

 

1 Why its needed and no chance to not have it this way, that her crime system handle every bounty from 1 up to unlimited

2. would it break other parts of the mod if the crime system only kicks in if you reach 1000 or 10.000 bounty or never starts cause you set bounty to a super high value

3 why it would be a problem for her if people modify this value and dont use her crime system for all bountys .

4 why she now thinks she must change it so people cant easily modify this value.

 

So for me this are 4 simple questions and i dont see a problem asking this questions.

If you think this questions are still agressive would be nice if you can translate them into a not so agressive version .

 

Now it may be my turn to completely misunderstand but I THINK that Kimy did answer this a page or two back in a response to MaikCG. And no, this sounds much more reasoned than before.

[Zaflis]

26 minutes ago, crazyduck said:

3 why it would be a problem for her if people modify this value and dont use her crime system for all bountys .

It's about 1 of the rules, the culprit of this 10 pages of drama:

Quote

- You can NOT bundle/re-distribute any parts of this mod with your own (e.g. include patched versions of DCL's scripts or ESP in your mod) as future updates might break mine, yours and other mods if you do

I don't want to take any strong stance on any of this and i hope best wishes for Kimy to get over all this, it's been long enough. Intent of this post is neutral, and i do not ask you to change anything, you do what you see best.

 

What i can do is imagine myself as mod developer of something similar in scale as DCL. How would i react if i had no such rule, and then someone did publish a patched mod with my script changed? To be honest, i would be proud of my work and of the community.

1. That my work is so popular that others think of creative ways to change outcomes, or even improve upon it. Hell, it wouldn't matter even if it was worse as i see it.

2. Depending on patch, i might integrate it to the original version or simply use it in my playthroughs sometimes for variety. Variety is always good. Integration would mean that they helped me improve the mod. Free code, yay. Everyone wins.

3. When it comes to things like Patreon, the more popularity the better. A good and creative patch could attract a lot more users for the main mod. In this it helps not only the mod, but the whole LoversLab community to grow and evolve. Drama free.

 

I would simply ignore issue reports made by using said patches, as i see fit. I didn't make them, so not my problem. It's on the patch maker, not me to deal with its problems and mod conflicts caused by it. If my update breaks their patches, so be it. It's fully on them to catch up, i don't need to deal with any potential stuff caused by it. Main mod comes always first and others adapt. If they can't keep up they will be forgotten by everyone. And that's as it should be.

[crazyduck]

14 minutes ago, Zaflis said:

It's about 1 of the rules, the culprit of this 10 pages of drama:

I don't want to take any strong stance on any of this and i hope best wishes for Kimy to get over all this, it's been long enough. Intent of this post is neutral, and i do not ask you to change anything, you do what you see best.

 

What i can do is imagine myself as mod developer of something similar in scale as DCL. How would i react if i had no such rule, and then someone did publish a patched mod with my script changed? To be honest, i would be proud of my work and of the community.

1. That my work is so popular that others think of creative ways to change outcomes, or even improve upon it. Hell, it wouldn't matter even if it was worse as i see it.

2. Depending on patch, i might integrate it to the original version or simply use it in my playthroughs sometimes for variety. Variety is always good. Integration would mean that they helped me improve the mod. Free code, yay. Everyone wins.

3. When it comes to things like Patreon, the more popularity the better. A good and creative patch could attract a lot more users for the main mod. In this it helps not only the mod, but the whole LoversLab community to grow and evolve. Drama free.

 

I would simply ignore issue reports made by using said patches, as i see fit. I didn't make them, so not my problem. It's on the patch maker, not me to deal with its problems and mod conflicts caused by it. If my update breaks their patches, so be it. It's fully on them to catch up, i don't need to deal with any potential stuff caused by it. Main mod comes always first and others adapt. If they can't keep up they will be forgotten by everyone. And that's as it should be.

 

Sure ignoring if such a patch would cause Bugs is fine i dont think someone would ask kimy to support the patch XYZ overwriting function Z of her Mod or fix a bug with this Patch.

But you said its one of the rules and thats the point i really dont understand.

If only sharing modifeid curseld loot files is a problem, why it can be a hostile act to share a screenshot to show people how to modify 1 value?

 

And sure if a mod would not be popular people woudl not ask for compatiblity to mod x or want to add this compatiblity with a patch they woudl simply remove the mod from load order and done.

 

And for me , if i download a patch for a Mod its the Job of the PAtch Writer to keep it compatible not the Job of the Modder from the Main Mod.  But if  i look around at Loverslab i find patdhes for many mods, Skooma Whore, Defeat, Sexlab itself and many others and all this patches work , dont drestroy the main mod and also dont compete with the person who make the main mod, without main mod the patch woudl be useless so how it could really compete with it?

 

 

 

[Laura]

5 minutes ago, crazyduck said:

 

Sure ignoring if such a patch would cause Bugs is fine i dont think someone would ask kimy to support the patch XYZ overwriting function Z of her Mod or fix a bug with this Patch.

But you said its one of the rules and thats the point i really dont understand.

i did not find a rule from Kimy not allowing people to share informations (not modified cursed loot filese) about ways to change values in cursed loot. And as far as i can tell there was no cursed loot file shared only a screenshot from TESEdit showing which value must be changed.

 Your Quote also dont say anything about sharing informations or screenshots only that its not allowed to publish modified cursed loot files.

 

And sure if a mod would not be popular people woudl not ask for compatiblity to mod x or want to add this compatiblity with a patch they woudl simply remove the mod from load order and done.

 

And for me , if i download a patch for a Mod its the Job of the PAtch Writer to keep it compatible not the Job of the Modder from the Main Mod.  But if  i look around at Loverslab i find patdhes for many mods, Skooma Whore, Defeat, Sexlab itself and many others and all this patches work , dont drestroy the main mod and also dont compete with the person who make the main mod, without main mod the patch woudl be useless so how it could really compete with it?

It's not a clearly stated rule, but when a mod author tells you to not do something with their mod, we respect that. It could fall under rule 1.

The police won't show up at our door, but we have to respect Kimy's decision. It's her mod, so we play by her rules.

[Kimy]

6 minutes ago, Zaflis said:

What i can do is imagine myself as mod developer of something similar in scale as DCL. How would i react if i had no such rule, and then someone did publish a patched mod with my script changed? To be honest, i would be proud of my work and of the community.

Well, the feeling it did actually create in me was not pride. What I felt was that someone butchered my work without my consent. Like any person developing games I take pride in realizing my vision and see it come to life. Why do you think I would like it when somebody butchers it?

6 minutes ago, Zaflis said:

2. Depending on patch, i might integrate it to the original version or simply use it in my playthroughs sometimes for variety. Variety is always good. Integration would mean that they helped me improve the mod. Free code, yay. Everyone wins.

If I agreed with that patch, I would have provided it in my mod in the first place. I made several other features hook into the one that they killed, so they will no longer work as intended.

6 minutes ago, Zaflis said:

I would simply ignore issue reports made by using said patches, as i see fit.

With a mod as complex as DCL, it's not always so easy to recognize if a problem occurs because of a genuine bug or because somebody butchered parts of the mod without really knowing what the consequences were. Apparently even the creator of the butcher-patch didn't know that it wasn't butchering only the prison, but the entire DCL crime overhaul system.

 

People will absolutely run into issues or at least wonder why certain things aren't working. And then they will create support requests. Probably they will even PM them to me, because they think the found a really bad problem.

 

[crazyduck]

15 minutes ago, Kimy said:

Well, the feeling it did actually create in me was not pride. What I felt was that someone butchered my work without my consent. Like any person developing games I take pride in realizing my vision and see it come to life. Why do you think I would like it when somebody butchers it?

If I agreed with that patch, I would have provided it in my mod in the first place. I made several other features hook into the one that they killed, so they will no longer work as intended.

With a mod as complex as DCL, it's not always so easy to recognize if a problem occurs because of a genuine bug or because somebody butchered parts of the mod without really knowing what the consequences were. Apparently even the creator of the butcher-patch didn't know that it wasn't butchering only the prison, but the entire DCL crime overhaul system.

 

People will absolutely run into issues or at least wonder why certain things aren't working. And then they will create support requests. Probably they will even PM them to me, because they think the found a really bad problem.

 

Kimy i can understand you like your vision comes to life i really can understand that i startet modding for skyrim but not enough time to really work much on my mod, but i also made mods for other games and yes i also was happy if something worked or a idea works and some complex stuff starts to work as planned.

 

But at same time, i never had a problem if someone told me he dont like this or that and asked me if it could be changed, as long as its not much work for me i possibel change it or tell the people to change it if they want it different.

 

you say setting another bounty value butcher the entire crime overhaul, why? Cause cursed loot now dont play the different outcomes for low bounty crime? If yes also if you and many others like all the outcomes make a config value for them so people can select them would make things easier. I woudl as example have no problem wiht getting a belt , but the walk of shame is nothing i like very much cause its for me to much running around and hoping someone has the key. and your Prison as much as like the design for me its gets boring really fast cause same task everytime at same plan and not one bit of difference every day.

At same time i like most other parts of  your mod like cursed chests, the dollmaker, sasha, chloe and her quest or the solicitation feature.

 

Why not add some sort of simple Toggle for crime values, if someone dont like one of the outcomes it can be disabled rest stay active

 

Its not like People like me want to butcher your mod or ruin your hard work , as i said i like your mod very much since found this page its in my load order but the crime system as i said before , i dont like how it curerntly works.

Thats why i asked earlier if you can tell which features exaclty would not work anymore if this bouty value is changed , after i looked in your arrest script it seems it only disables other outcomes since there will be no low bounty crime anymore, if there are other things hooking into this would be nice if you could possible tell which features .

 

And about support, sure people will ask for support, but i think most people are not that stupid to ask the Mod Author of the main mod for support if something does not work after they add a patch for this mod from another modder.

[tester86]

I remember watching a movie once and thinking, "wow, that ending sucked."  It never once dawned on me to demand that the makers of the movie change the movie into what I thought it should be and I paid to see the movie. It would be even more egregious to demand it being changed to my vision if I didn't pay for it. To make outwardly hostile posts about a mod or the author who spends weeks and weeks of their life creating something that thousands of people enjoy and then puts that work up for FREE is beyond incomprehensible to me. 

 

I've seen people demand a show be taken off the air because they didn't like it.  If you don't like something, don't partake in it. If you don't like the mod, then simply don't install it. If you don't like the song on the radio, change the damned station. Nobody is forcing anyone to use any mod. I checked, there isn't anyone here in my house pointing a gun at my head and demanding I install this mod or that mod or any mod whatsoever. It's a choice. If you don't like it, don't use it. Or if you're feeling adventurous - make your own mod.   A simple Google search should get you pointed in the right direction.  Try "how to create a Skyrim mod from scratch."

 

I speak with my wallet. I'm a patreon supporter of Kimy because I feel she deserves to be paid for her work. I have bought a number of supporter packs for the free game Path of Exile for the same reason. To me it's worth it. 

 

I've written a number of novels and I would never once change MY artistic vision because someone else didn't like how my book didn't end the way they wanted it to. There are 122 pages of mods on this board for Skyrim (at least on my end) and you can't possibly expect any mod author to download and install every last one of them to make sure they're compatible.  There are some mods I enjoy that aren't compatible, guess what, "I" choose which mods to use and when.  I love the mod Get Stripped and with my full load order the scenes in Riften don't work correctly. Should I then make demands of that mod creator to change their work for my own personal use? Not only no but Hell No!  I change my load order and what mods I have installed to play what I want to play. 

 

Again the choice is on me.  I choose what to play, when to play and I play what I enjoy and I'm thankful that these mods exist. 

 

I want to thank not only Kimy but all the authors of all the mods who do what they do. 

 

Thank you modders.

 

I appreciate you.