Deviously Cursed Loot LE 9.0 (2021-03-09)

[Laura]

8 minutes ago, GenioMaestro said:

That is the first problem.... The main page NOT have upgrade instructions. 

Update the mod and then start a new save.

 

8 minutes ago, GenioMaestro said:

The second problem is that i not understand WHY i must start a NEW GAME for play a new version of a mod.

I NEVER need start a NEW GAME for upgrade any other mod in more than 4 years playing Skyrim.

I can need a CLEAN SAVE and i undestand it and i know WHY i must make a clean save.

But i repeat: "I not understand WHY i must start a NEW GAME for play a new version of a mod."

Most mods don't require a new save after updating because they're made differently. DCUR has a large script constantly running in the background.

Mods like mine don't have that and won't require a new save. Expect for when I told people to load a save where certain quests weren't active, because a running scripts was changed.

 

8 minutes ago, GenioMaestro said:

Theorically, all that scripts and stored data inside the savegame MUST be cleared when make the CLEAN SAVE.

If the mod have constant running scripts that NEVER stop can not be removed from the savegame.

But that is a PROBLEM in the mod and the developer MUST control it and give to the users a way for stop that scripts, stop all the quest and prepare the mod for any upgrade or for any posible uninstallation.

There are ways to stop the script, but it's not very reliable because Skyrim is still Skyrim. The best way is to start a new game.

 

8 minutes ago, GenioMaestro said:

I can not understand that a mod developer can FORCE the users to start a NEW GAME for play the mod.

It's not because we're evil, it's because there are technical limitations. Skyrim doesn't like it when mods get updated or loadorders are changed. Savegames in Skyrim are very precise. They don't work like checkpoints like most games. Skyrim saves the player's position/state, NPC positions/state, running scripts, navmeshes and many other things. Things go wrong when it loads things from the save that are no longer there because a mod was changed or moved. That's why you sometimes need to make a new save.

 

You probably don't want to lose progress and I understand that. We want you to keep the save, but technical limitations make that impossible in this case.

When I work on my mod, I often have to load a save from a while ago because it won't work when I load a save where the older scripts are in.

[cooldown1337]

2 minutes ago, GenioMaestro said:

What bug reports??? What can break???

 

That is the point that I do not understand. Exactly WHAT can be broken if I do not start a NEW GAME.

What is the big difference between starting a new game and doing a clean save??
WHY the clean save is not valid?? What can be broken and why???

Which are EXACTLY the prolems that I can have ???

Just make a clean save, run ReSaver on it and give it a try, should work fine. Pretty sure such disclaimers are just a way for mod authors to avoid troubleshooting issues that can be caused by such installations (which I can understand)

[Nazzzgul666]

Because save game cleaners aren't 100% reliable. They may miss things, they may delete more than they should. Both happened to me, only once, but nevertheless. This may be a chance of 1:100 or even 1:100 000 000, it doesn't matter. The point is that it happens and if it happens it's pretty much impossible for a modder to figure it out, therefore it's understandable they don't want to search for a bug in their mod that was actually created by a save game cleaner.

So feel free to try whatever you want, but don't complain if something doesn't work then.

 

For the "What can break?" question: everything that keeps anything in any save. Laura mentioned some examples.

[Laura]

4 minutes ago, GenioMaestro said:

What bug reports??? What can break???

 

That is the point that I do not understand. Exactly WHAT can be broken if I do not start a NEW GAME.

What is the big difference between starting a new game and doing a clean save??
WHY the clean save is not valid?? What can be broken and why???

Which are EXACTLY the prolems that I can have ???

Devices can stop functioning, scenes and quests can fail to start, dialogue can fail to trigger, MCM can stop working and game performance can drop.

You can try to use a savecleaning tool so you can keep your progress, but we can't guarentee that it'll work, so we'll never recommend it.

 

The biggest problem is that it can look like it all went fine after not starting a new game, but things can still go wrong behind the curtain. Those little mistakes can pile up like a snowball and cause big issues later on.

[Tiress]

As long as the game will be able to corrupt save files by itself (without mods), there really is no such a thing as a clean save.

[Treatedshammy]

On 3/23/2019 at 9:31 PM, Zaflis said:

That is the correct one. You also need to build the body in Bodyslide afterwards, and run the FNIS. Now i consider this also "required" for UNP:

https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/30050

Without it you may get neck or hand seams, very distracting borders where those models connect. But that's really all there is to UNP, other is just fine tuning like eyes, teeth, different faces or sweaty body textures etc.

 

On 3/23/2019 at 10:30 PM, Treatedshammy said:

I will download that as well then.

 

But I did try the game with the UNP I mentioned and I ran the Bodyslide and FNIS, but there was no change. The torso/hobbledress was still invisible.

 

I am so close to giving up here this is just frustrating when I can't see what the problem is. I have reinstalled every mod, followed every instruction as best I can they have had. And I'm still in the same damn spot. The BodySlide program said to load things from the Skyrim launcher first to find the textures it needs, but that hasn't worked. I just can't see where the problem is.

 

With the linked mod order, the only things not shown on the screen are; on the left SkyUI, and on the right both Life Another Life files (the base and the Devious extention) and annoyingly I can't get a screenshot in game, but some of the textures clearly load (the character clear has boots armbinder and gag on) but then others don't, like what seems to be the hobble dress. I just don't know where I'm going wrong because I'm obviously doing it repeatedly without realising.

[GenioMaestro]

3 minutes ago, Laura 'Lokomootje' said:

Update the mod and then start a new save.

Only and exclusively because you, others players and the developer say it in the forums?

Excuse me but that is not enougth motive.

If the mod REALLY require a NEW game the developer MUST say it in the main page in the upgrade section.

If the mod NOT require a NEW game i not know WHY you, others players and the developer say that.

 

11 minutes ago, Laura 'Lokomootje' said:

1 - DCUR has a large script constantly running in the background...

2 - There are ways to stop the script, but it's not very reliable because Skyrim is still Skyrim. The best way is to start a new game....

3 - because there are technical limitations. Skyrim doesn't like it when mods get updated or loadorders are changed. Savegames in Skyrim are very precise....

4 - make that impossible in this case.

Excuse me but the things that you say not match with the things that i know. And we only have ONE posibility.

Your are wrong or i'm wrong. And i want determine that point. We can continue in PM or in the page of your mod for not overcharge this page. Only go to make some details:

 

1 - Is not a problem, the script and the quest can be stoped.

2 - Is tecnically imposible have a running script that is NOT atached to an active quest.

3 - I not know any limitation. The game can upgrade any mod and process any load order in any moment.

4 - Why??? What are that special things that make IMPOSIBLE the upgrade.

12 minutes ago, Laura 'Lokomootje' said:

When I work on my mod, I often have to load a save from a while ago because it won't work when I load a save where the older scripts are in.

That have a clear and easy explanation and is the motive because is OBLIGATORY make a clean save.

But the tecnical details are a bit bored for explaint it here.

[thedarkone1234]

1 hour ago, MaikCG said:

 

And for dessert.

"If You distribute or otherwise make available New Materials, You automatically grant to Bethesda Softworks the irrevocable, perpetual, royalty free, sublicensable right and license under all applicable copyrights and intellectual property rights laws to use, reproduce, modify, adapt, perform, display, distribute and otherwise exploit and/or dispose of the New Materials (or any part of the New Materials) in any way Bethesda Softworks, or its respective designee(s), sees fit."

All claim on "unlawful" mod changes, I will only listen from the Bethesda agent ?

 

This thing you quoted means Bethesda themselves reserve the right to all mods (probably even in spite of the modder). It does not say that they give everyone else these rights.

So if you are not a Bethsada employee this does not apply to you, and while LL might not have the lawsuit abilities of a game company, you can expect that violating its terms will get you banned from it.

And since it is totally up to Kimy to decide the rules about her mod, and technically nothing keeps her from saying MaikCG specifically has no rights to even suggest code alterations, then all comments about it are meaningless.

 

Can you be sued? Probably not.

Are you violating rules? If Kimy who decides her rules says so - yes.

What are the consequenses of that? I am relatively new to LL but my guess is account suspension or something.

 

P.S: Do you particulary enjoy agitating Kimy? At this point I suspect you are. Though it might be just a very bad Google Translate.

[GenioMaestro]

26 minutes ago, Nazzzgul666 said:

Because save game cleaners aren't 100% reliable. They may miss things, they may delete more than they should. Both happened to me, only once, but nevertheless. This may be a chance of 1:100 or even 1:100 000 000, it doesn't matter. The point is that it happens and if it happens it's pretty much impossible for a modder to figure it out, therefore it's understandable they don't want to search for a bug in their mod that was actually created by a save game cleaner.

Excuse me but i see that position totally incorrect. The posibility of one error in the cleaner program is real.

But, as you say, can happend a very small number of times. That is not a motive for not use it.

Any computer can give a BSOD but that is not a motive for not use the computer.

 

Aditionally, the developer must solve the problems reported from some users. If the mod have a problem that happend only to ONE user and none other user have THAT problem the developer must not search any. Must

be a problem in the installation or the savegame of THAT user.

33 minutes ago, Nazzzgul666 said:

For the "What can break?" question: everything that keeps anything in any save.

That is not an answer. The savegame and the cleaners works perfect the 99.99% of the times.

Is true that SOMETIMES the savegame can go corrupt and is true that SOMETIMES the cleaner can have a problem.

But that is not a motive for not use the savegames or the cleaners.

[Laura]

There is no need to get hostile over this. I'm just trying to explain why.

 

16 minutes ago, GenioMaestro said:

Only and exclusively because you, others players and the developer say it in the forums?

Excuse me but that is not enougth motive.

If the mod REALLY require a NEW game the developer MUST say it in the main page in the upgrade section.

If the mod NOT require a NEW game i not know WHY you, others players and the developer say that.

 

Excuse me but the things that you say not match with the things that i know. And we only have ONE posibility.

Your are wrong or i'm wrong. And i want determine that point. We can continue in PM or in the page of your mod for not overcharge this page. Only go to make some details:

 

1 - Is not a problem, the script and the quest can be stoped.

It can, but that doesn't change how the savegames work.

 

Quote

2 - Is tecnically imposible have a running script that is NOT atached to an active quest.

You're right, but DCUR has a few quests with the Start Game Enabled box checked. Those quests and it's scripts are always active. Most notable is the dcur_clocktick quest. It's script dcur_clocktickscript handles the timer features like Public Indecency, Device Comments, Device Buffs and many other things.

 

Quote

3 - I not know any limitation. The game can upgrade any mod and process any load order in any moment.

That's true in most cases, but not with this mod. That's why we told you.

 

Quote

4 - Why??? What are that special things that make IMPOSIBLE the upgrade.

That have a clear and easy explanation and is the motive because is OBLIGATORY make a clean save.

But the tecnical details are a bit bored for explaint it here.

I told you before. It's because of how the savegames work.

 

And please, when the mod author explains how to use the mod, do what the mod author told you. She said it wih a reason.

[GenioMaestro]

31 minutes ago, Laura 'Lokomootje' said:

Devices can stop functioning, scenes and quests can fail to start, dialogue can fail to trigger, MCM can stop working and game performance can drop.

You can try to use a savecleaning tool so you can keep your progress, but we can't guarentee that it'll work, so we'll never recommend it.

Excuse me but all that is NOT true. If any of that things not works is because some of the variables are not correct and that can be a problem in the mod and NEVER can be caused for clean the savegame. When you clean a savegame and install the mod the game get it as any other new mod.

32 minutes ago, Laura 'Lokomootje' said:

The biggest problem is that it can look like it all went fine after not starting a new game, but things can still go wrong behind the curtain. Those little mistakes can pile up like a snowball and cause big issues later on.

All that can be hiddent problems in the mods and are problems that the mods developer MUST solve.

We have that problems years ago but all the mods with that problems has been solved.

Again, the tecnical explanation is big and bored but i can give it to you if you want.

[thedarkone1234]

6 minutes ago, GenioMaestro said:

Excuse me but all that is NOT true. If any of that things not works is because some of the variables are not correct and that can be a problem in the mod and NEVER can be caused for clean the savegame. When you clean a savegame and install the mod the game get it as any other new mod.

All that can be hiddent problems in the mods and are problems that the mods developer MUST solve.

We have that problems years ago but all the mods with that problems has been solved.

Again, the tecnical explanation is big and bored but i can give it to you if you want.

The developer of a mod doesn't owe anyone the mod at all, let alone fix bugs in it. Drop the "MUST"s, please.

 

Anyway, why is this argument going on? Simply do what you think is enough to fix your save, update and continue playing the save. If it works for a month with no new bugs: come here and tell us about it.

If it starts failing many things, figure out why is that (because you seem to understand quite well in the area) and either find a solution and tell us or understand why there is none.

 

If you already understand that as a fact, for some reason new save files have less problems than old save files (even if you don't get the why), then you understand it probably takes an effort to change that situation. Combine this with the fact that the mod developer doesn't have to make this effort and can instead simply tell you to make a new save because she doesn't owe anyone anything, and that's all there is to it.

[Gräfin Zeppelin]

6 hours ago, stas2503 said:

I have a problem with the mod, which is observed since version 6.2. When a trap is triggered, devices will be equipped for a very long time. Sometimes it takes up to 10 minutes ... At first I thought that I had a weak PC, but I recently upgraded my PC, but the problem did not go away ...

If you need any logs, I can provide them ...

I had a similar problem when my hardrive was dying.Did you replace your hardrive too while upgrading ?

[GenioMaestro]

9 minutes ago, Laura 'Lokomootje' said:

There is no need to get hostile over this. I'm just trying to explain why.

I only express my opinion and i think i use correct words. Excuse me if you see that words as hostile.

Is not my intention be hostile in any way. I only want determine if REALLY the problem exist or not.

Seems that you and others persons are totally sure about the existence of the problem.

And seems that you and others persons see stupid discuse about a problem that, in yours opinions, is a REAL problem.

But i not have the same opinion and for that i write theses messages and i explain my ideas.

Because I only want determine if REALLY the problem exist or not.

And i want make it in a cordial way.

19 minutes ago, Laura 'Lokomootje' said:

It can, but that doesn't change how the savegames work.

Exactly, because in my opinion, the savegames works perfect and can NOT cause any problem to any mod after make a clean save.

21 minutes ago, Laura 'Lokomootje' said:

You're right, but DCUR has a few quests with the Start Game Enabled box checked. Those quests and it's scripts are always active.

Until you stop the quest. Have the tick "Start Game Enabled" not mean that the quest can not be stoped.

22 minutes ago, Laura 'Lokomootje' said:

That's true in most cases, but not with this mod. That's why we told you.

WHY??? WHAT is the problem??? WHAT are the things that can NOT be upgraded after make a clean save???

23 minutes ago, Laura 'Lokomootje' said:

I told you before. It's because of how the savegames work.

 

And please, when the mod author explains how to use the mod, do what the mod author told you. She said it wih a reason.

That are EXACTLY the things that i want understand. 

As i know, the savegame can NOT give any problem until go corrupt. In all others situations the savegame works perfect and clean the save and install the mod must NOT cause any problem to the mod, IMO, of course.

 

And yes, of course, when the modder give instructions must give it for a motive. And that is EXACTLY that i want understand. WHAT are the motives, because i not understand it. The explanations that i get for now are not enougth.

[MaikCG]

1 hour ago, thedarkone1234 said:

This thing you quoted means Bethesda themselves reserve the right to all mods (probably even in spite of the modder). It does not say that they give everyone else these rights.

So if you are not a Bethsada employee this does not apply to you, and while LL might not have the lawsuit abilities of a game company, you can expect that violating its terms will get you banned from it.

And since it is totally up to Kimy to decide the rules about her mod, and technically nothing keeps her from saying MaikCG specifically has no rights to even suggest code alterations, then all comments about it are meaningless.

From the point of view of juridical casuistry, I modify not the code of Kimy, but the code of Bethesda. Of course, all this is nonsense, Bethesda doesn’t care what happens if it doesn’t concern criminal offenses. So remain the usual rules of politeness, do not steal the code, giving it off as yours, do not distribute the mod everywhere without the approval of the author, etc. I made something of this to declare me an enemy of the state? ? Count as you want.

 

Ok. For example. Read this

https://www.loverslab.com/topic/57586-maria-eden/?do=findComment&comment=1779931

And no one was hurt that for the sake of compatibility with DD I told how to break the game mechanics of Maria (there with the gag completely blocked dialogues with everyone, that will break the mechanics of DD)?

[GenioMaestro]

16 minutes ago, thedarkone1234 said:

The developer of a mod doesn't owe anyone the mod at all, let alone fix bugs in it. Drop the "MUST"s, please.

Sorry, but I think that any developer MUST publish a product that works and MUST solve the problems in their own creation. A developer can NOT publish a program or a mod and leave it because he has the responsibility of its creation. If the developer can not support and update the mod, he must say so and let others do the support, the patches and the updates.

Of course, we are talking about FREE modifications and we do not pay for them and we can NOT REQUEST ANYTHING. From here I send many thanks to all developers who make free modifications.

But that does not mean that problems can remain for all the eternity. Someone must solve the problems, the developer or other people.

That is my opinion and, of course, you can have a different opinion.

29 minutes ago, thedarkone1234 said:

Anyway, why is this argument going on? Simply do what you think is enough to fix your save, update and continue playing the save. If it works for a month with no new bugs: come here and tell us about it.

Exactly that i make the past week. And for that i write the messages. Because i not have any problem and i not know WHY the developer and others persons say that is estricly necesary start a NEW GAME.

And i want understand it and know what posible future problems can i have. I not found any in a week.

[Zaflis]

1 hour ago, Treatedshammy said:

 

 

I am so close to giving up here this is just frustrating when I can't see what the problem is. I have reinstalled every mod, followed every instruction as best I can they have had. And I'm still in the same damn spot. The BodySlide program said to load things from the Skyrim launcher first to find the textures it needs, but that hasn't worked. I just can't see where the problem is.

Spoiler

With the linked mod order, the only things not shown on the screen are; on the left SkyUI, and on the right both Life Another Life files (the base and the Devious extention) and annoyingly I can't get a screenshot in game, but some of the textures clearly load (the character clear has boots armbinder and gag on) but then others don't, like what seems to be the hobble dress. I just don't know where I'm going wrong because I'm obviously doing it repeatedly without realising.

 

 

First thing i would do is move all the ESM mods before ESP ones in loading order. The order should roughly be:

Spoiler

...

Unofficial Skyrim patch

Sexlab

SL Aroused

DDa

DDi

DDx

...

(Most mods here)

...

Deviously Cursed Loot

Alternate Start - Live another Life

Deviously Cursed Loot LAL AddOn

 

[GenioMaestro]

35 minutes ago, UnEvenSteven said:

While Kimy may not have stated in the description or the change log in the download page that a new game is required she did state otherwise in this post. It's right there in bold, red letters at the bottom of the post.

 

If you don't like that you a new game is required that's fine, move on and wait to use version 8 (or the next version) when you do start a new game. Or you can try updating to v8 and if it works for you, great. However if your game CTD's afterwards or CL has issues then don't come back here and complain, you were warned what might happen.

 

I have seen that message but those words in red at the end of the message contradict my ideas and that is why I want to know why it says that.

 

I play Skyrim for more than 4 years and I never had to start a new game to update a mod. It is only necessary for big modifications like Requiem, SkyRe and similar because they really change many things and really it is technically impossible.

But Nexus has more than 60k mods and I have not seen any other mod that needs a new game to work and less to update.

 

I have looked at the ESP with Tes5Edit and I have opened it in the CK and I have looked at the source code and I have analyzed it and I do not see any reason that requires a new game.
A week ago I removed my version 7.5, I cleaned the savegame, I put version 8 and it works perfectly.

I have not found any problem in 7 days.

 

That's why I want to know why the creator says it is necessary to start a new game. And that's why I write all these messages. Because I can not understand why a clean save can give problems.

[thedarkone1234]

27 minutes ago, MaikCG said:

From the point of view of juridical casuistry, I modify not the code of Kimy, but the code of Bethesda. Of course, all this is nonsense, Bethesda doesn’t care what happens if it doesn’t concern criminal offenses. So remain the usual rules of politeness, do not steal the code, giving it off as yours, do not distribute the mod everywhere without the approval of the author, etc. I made something of this to declare me an enemy of the state? ? Count as you want.

No enemy of no state. Just a rule breaker in LL. In a manner of speaking it DOES make you a LL criminal, subject to LL punishments such as indefinite suspension.

[thedarkone1234]

25 minutes ago, GenioMaestro said:

Sorry, but I think that any developer MUST publish a product that works and MUST solve the problems in their own creation. A developer can NOT publish a program or a mod and leave it because he has the responsibility of its creation.

Then you simply think wrong things. I never published any mod. Laura didn't publish DCL and Kimy didn't publish Estrus and so on. So nobody must publish anything. As long as everything I give is free, it is absolutely ridicolous to make any kind of demand about it. If I gave out a broken product, the only consequence of that is no one would buy. It doesnt make any sense to say I have to fix it, because I never obliged to give anything. There is no respondibility as long as there is no reward for the work in the first place.

[crazyduck]

21 minutes ago, thedarkone1234 said:

No enemy of no state. Just a rule breaker in LL. In a manner of speaking it DOES make you a LL criminal, subject to LL punishments such as indefinite suspension.

How exacly did he break any Rules?

I only see a Post from him with Screenshots from TESEdit and a info how to make POP work with Cursed loot crime system.

 

I dont see anything of the stuff kimy dont allow with her license terms.

There is no modified File from Cursed Loot shared.

There is no Patch overwriting Cursed Loot Functions

There is no complete Republishing of Cursed Loot

There nothing wiht other Sides used for Publishing

 

So which Rule exactly did he broke?

[GenioMaestro]

1 hour ago, thedarkone1234 said:

Then you simply think wrong things. I never published any mod. Laura didn't publish DCL and Kimy didn't publish Estrus and so on. So nobody must publish anything. As long as everything I give is free, it is absolutely ridicolous to make any kind of demand about it. If I gave out a broken product, the only consequence of that is no one would buy. It doesnt make any sense to say I have to fix it, because I never obliged to give anything. There is no respondibility as long as there is no reward for the work in the first place.

Excuse me, but you and anyone else MUST be responsible for your actions. If you do not want to have the responsibility just do not do it. But keep in mind that sometimes, not doing so can be a crime, such as denying help to a person in a car accident.

 

All actions have a derivative responsibility and that is how life works. It is not related only to free modifications, free programs or things paid. Think a little about it and maybe you can understand it. But this forum is not adequate to discuss these things. If you want, tell me another forum where we can continue discussing this.

[Taki17]

So this thread had been an entertaining read on a usually slow Monday at work.

On 3/25/2019 at 4:12 PM, GenioMaestro said:

Excuse me, but you and anyone else MUST be responsible for your actions. If you do not want to have the responsibility just do not do it. But keep in mind that sometimes, not doing so can be a crime, such as denying help to a person in a car accident. 

I can't help to think that comparing mod updates and lending aid in a car wreck might not be on the same level, unless someone is really trying to stretch things awfully thin. Or comparing mod updates and responsibility in life, for that matter. Had to chime in on this one, since the reasonings went a bit too hyperbolic to ignore.

 

I stand with the others on this: no one has any obligation, or a right to demand anything in modding. A mod author can consider requests, and implement whatever they fancy. A mod is not made for the people out there, it's shared with them.

 

Edited March 25 by Taki17

[Laura]

3 minutes ago, GenioMaestro said:

Excuse me, but you and anyone else MUST be responsible for your actions. If you do not want to have the responsibility just do not do it. But keep in mind that sometimes, not doing so can be a crime, such as denying help to a person in a car accident.

 

All actions have a derivative responsibility and that is how life works. It is not related only to free modifications, free programs or things paid. Think a little about it and maybe you can understand it. But this forum is not adequate to discuss these things. If you want, tell me another forum where we can continue discussing this.

Comparing us not giving the answer you want to refusing to help a car accident victim is just wrong.

We've explained to you why the installation and upgrade instructions are the way they are. What else do you want from us?

 

The way this game works makes upgrading this mod difficult. You can try to clean the save yourself, but it's not 100% reliable so we don't recommend it.

How you do it is obviously completely up to you.

I had a few times where cleaning a save caused problems. The same goes for changing my loadorder mid playthrough, it broke my game once.

 

 

I always strive to be as friendly and calm as possible, but you're just going to far.

Demanding things like that is not cool.

 

Take a look at rule 1 and 2 of the LL guidelines.

Quote

https://www.loverslab.com/guidelines/

 

1.  The biggest and most important thing of this community is that the modders come first. They are the ones who make this community worth coming to, they are the ones enabling you to even play these mods.  Meaning if you don't like the way a mod is going, don't be a jerk about it, they can take the mod in whatever direction they want. Don't like it? Then make your own release and put the work in yourself. Find a bug or issue that needs to be fixed? Don't be a jerk about it and raise your concerns and feedback in a constructive manner.
 

2.  Don't be a jerk. Seriously, does this really need to be said?

The fact that I had to post the rules twice today makes me really sad.

[JuliusXX]

I just found a shortcut to the Chloe quest that I think is unintended.

 

Spoiler alert.

 

Spoiler

When you have to collect some fresh ingredients for the sleeping potion you can use the ingredients you already have in your inventory. If you have e.g. nirnroot, just drop it to the ground and pick it back up and voila, you have a fresh nirnroot. 

 

This mechanic might need some tweaking, if you want to prevent this.