Deviously Cursed Loot LE 9.0 (2021-03-09)

[Zaflis]

44 minutes ago, Kimy said:

I am currently mulling about how to go forward with this. Don't be surprised if you don't like the conclusions I might draw from it.

I would think that gaining acceptance back from the community would require some level of reducing some of those special rules in place. Also being so hateful against others is not the best way to gather supporters. It's a bit like dealing with teenagers, if you set too strict home-rules they're gonna bite back and hate you in the end. So think about how you're gonna turn that around.

[Tenri]

It is about time to stop talking about this, the update was just 2 weeks ago, Kimy has a life outside of modding Skyrim. Things take time to make and change, sure some of the requests have been simple changes but from what i remember of the history of DCL's updates, small uploads to fix one or two things only happen if they are to fix gamebreaking issues. Things that have a workaround or are problems of mod interaction with mods that are not requirements of DCL are lower priority.

The issues are known some maybe even fixed for the next release already so we can drop it now please?

[naaitsab]

46 minutes ago, Kimy said:

All right. Seems the last few pages were mostly about how sinister I am as a person, whether or not there is a way to wrestle control over my own mod from me in case the "community" deems necessary to do so, and how to best defile features I purposefully included in my mod without violating my licence terms.

 

I find this offensive and insulting.

 

I am currently mulling about how to go forward with this. Don't be surprised if you don't like the conclusions I might draw from it.

Been following this "discussion" quietly for a while now. I find it quite bizar that people keep missing the point of a mod and that the creator of the mod decides what way to go. If you don't like it than just don't use it. Or give constructive and normal feedback. Not some unfunded barking and even going as far as demanding things. It's a shared piece of content from a creator, not something you pay a company/person for custom work. It's like going to a art studio and whacking a can of red paint on a painting of a seaside vista because you don't like blue and blaming the painter for that.

 

And about the hostile stance that some people claim Kimy to be, that's quite understandable as every release comes with a seemingly endless shitstorm of complaints, aggression and demands from a few people. I can only imagine what after a while you get a bit aggressive about all this. I know I would.

 

In my opinion a zero tolerance policy limiting reactions to constructive feedback for bugs and normal talk for things like feature idea's would be a good start. As the "I want this changed because X" discussions are endless and only result in hostilities as the latest release shows again (sadly).

 

Just my 2 cents about all this. Would be a shame if the mod goes to another platform like Patron because of all this.

[tuxagent7]

1 hour ago, Kimy said:

I am currently mulling about how to go forward with this. Don't be surprised if you don't like the conclusions I might draw from it.

Don't forget that for the few who aren't happy there is a lot more that loves your content and support it.

[Clockwinding]

Hello,

 

Out of all the ownership rights debate and all that, i'd like to report some bugs :

-With combat surrender, i was sent to prison by draugrs/monsters because i had a a bounty in the hold.

-Having spells in both hands consider you unarmed for surrendering purposes

-And i know you've fixed the werewolf one on your side already.

 

Thank you for creating this mod.

[Kimy]

5 minutes ago, Zaflis said:

I would think that gaining acceptance back from the community would require some level of reducing some of those special rules in place. Also being so hateful against others is not the best way to gather supporters. It's a bit like dealing with teenagers, if you set too strict home-rules they're gonna bite back and hate you in the end. So think about how you're gonna turn that around.

Nothing about my rules is especially restrictive. It's one of the more lax licences on LL, even. If you compare that to the average permissions set by most modellers and animators who tend not to allow ANY reuse of their assets, or the average modder on Nexus (where providing source code is NOT the norm) the notion that my licence (that allows re-using my code pretty much freely so), would be restrictive is actually pretty odd. With the two notable exceptions that I do not wish to see my code appear outsides of LL and that I do not wish to see my own code used to compete against me, it's the closest possible thing to a copyleft open source licence. Regular copyleft licences don't rule out forks and hostile changes to somebody's project, but that's because these practices are frowned upon in the open source community, while - as the last few pages of this thread nicely demonstrated - certain parts of the modding community seem to have no moral objections about it. It's probably because the open source community largely respect other people's work, while said parts of the modding community...well...don't.

 

 

[Laura]

3 hours ago, Kimy said:

All right. Seems the last few pages were mostly about how sinister I am as a person, whether or not there is a way to wrestle control over my own mod from me in case the "community" deems necessary to do so, and how to best defile features I purposefully included in my mod without violating my licence terms.

 

I find this offensive and insulting.

 

I am currently mulling about how to go forward with this. Don't be surprised if you don't like the conclusions I might draw from it.

Don't worry too much about the stuff here. It's supposed to be fun, and responding to stuff like that isn't fun. Focus on the mod and do what you love.

Although there is sometimes good feedback hidden in a mean comment, don't let it get to you.

Try to pick the feedback from the nastyness and filter out the rest.

It's also good to keep in mind that people are this harsh because they love the mod so much. They wouldn't care if they didn't like it.

While 0.05% is complaining here and making it a personal attack, the other 99.95% are quietly enjoying your mod.

[thedarkone1234]

57 minutes ago, Kimy said:

All right. Seems the last few pages were mostly about how sinister I am as a person, whether or not there is a way to wrestle control over my own mod from me in case the "community" deems necessary to do so, and how to best defile features I purposefully included in my mod without violating my licence terms.

 

I find this offensive and insulting.

 

I am currently mulling about how to go forward with this. Don't be surprised if you don't like the conclusions I might draw from it.

Look at it that way: The fact that people are expressing frustration and are attempting to find ways to force compatibility with your mod rather than simply uninstall it, proves that at least in the eyes of all these complainers, dropping DCL completely is worse than dropping all the stuff its incompstible with. In other words, even the most negative and offensive people here (perhpahps except for 1 or 2  other modders) value DCL more than everything it disturbs combined. 

 

This doesnt excuse the hostility, of course. I would just find it kinda bittersweet that people get angry at you because they have grown to worship your creation.

 

Anyway, I can still understand how annoying it is to be on your end of these things. But think of all the playerbase that are simply not vocal on the forum, or are inactive.

Whoever is not making noise here isn't mad or otherwise he would also make noise. That means that aside for a few requests for helps, bug reports and the extremely rare ''pointless'' appreciation posts, it shouldn't be suprising that all the rest are negative.

 

So I hope you remember that the percentage of negativity you see in the posts does not at all reflect the feeling of the majority your playerbase (fanbase?), and that even the toxic ones are only so because they value your mod above all else, even if they fail to realize it for themselves and/or lack in self expression. [Tbh I was at first suprised how relatively civilized LL is considering its full of internet personalities who comr together to do ''incognito things'' ?]

[UnEvenSteven]

If Kimy doesn't want Cursed Loot to be modified by anyone but herself then that should be respected. Cursed Loot is her mod, she gets to decide what can or can't be done with it. If Kimy no longer wants CL to support a certain mod then once again that is her choice and hers alone. If you don't like it then move on and don't use CL anymore, you're not entitled to anything a mod author does with their mod.

 

I wouldn't really blame Kimy at this point if she deleted this thread, pulled CL from LL and move it to her Patreon. At least that way she could restrict any discussion regarding CL to herself and her supporters. I hope Kimy doesn't take this course but then again wouldn't blame her either.

 

Kimy, I can only ask politely but please doesn't punish the rest of us because of few bad apples. I'm sure there's plenty of us that do appreciate the work you do on the framework and CL. If possible you should just ban these people in question from either downloading CL or posting in this thread or both.

[Kimy]

6 minutes ago, Clockwinding said:

Hello,

 

Out of all the ownership rights debate and all that, i'd like to report some bugs :

-With combat surrender, i was sent to prison by draugrs/monsters because i had a a bounty in the hold.

Draugr are considered humanoids by the code, but I think I need to rule them out. I don't think they are interested in money all that much!

6 minutes ago, Clockwinding said:

-Having spells in both hands consider you unarmed for surrendering purposes

Already fixed this for the next version!

6 minutes ago, Clockwinding said:

-And i know you've fixed the werewolf one on your side already.

Yes, I did!

 

[crazyduck]

12 minutes ago, Kimy said:

Nothing about my rules is especially restrictive. It's one of the more lax licences on LL, even. If you compare that to the average permissions set by most modellers and animators who tend not to allow ANY reuse of their assets, or the average modder on Nexus (where providing source code is NOT the norm) the notion that my licence (that allows re-using my code pretty much freely so), would be restrictive is actually pretty odd. With the two notable exceptions that I do not wish to see my code appear outsides of LL and that I do not wish to see my own code used to compete against me, it's the closest possible thing to a copyleft open source licence. Regular copyleft licences don't rule out forks and hostile changes to somebody's project, but that's because these practices are frowned upon in the open source community, while - as the last few pages of this thread nicely demonstrated - certain parts of the modding community seem to have no moral objections about it. It's probably because the open source community largely respect other people's work, while said parts of the modding community...well...don't.

 

 

Sorry Kimy i dont get it.

you say your Licence would be one of the more lax Licenses and that you only dont want that your Code appear outside of LL and its not used compete against you, if thats true tell me how would a Patch for your mod compete agaionst you?

Its impossible  a patch could compete against your work without your mod this patch would not work.

 

i looked into your arrest script today, tell me would it be that much work or impossible to add the POP Prison outcome to your total 9 outcomes ?

And if you dont want to do that, would it be that much work allow people to set a % slider in your crime MCM to use 2 different Dialogues? Its not like your cime dialogue always must trigger.

 

and that is something i really dont get, you say you only want to do the stuff you like make sense at same time you dont allow people to make patches for your mod and at same time say your license is not restrictive.

 

Oh and yes Kimy if this People who complain about something woudl not honor or like your Work and your Mod this People would not complain but remove it from Load Order and use other Mods.

For me i still like your Mod and i know its muhc work to make a Mod but at same time this does not mean i should not complain if i dont like something.

[DonQuiWho]

@Kimy

 

Started a new game with 8.0 and the probs I had with human molestations seem to have vanished - although I've still to test with followers.  I guess it was just some in game cross mod weirdness

 

On a slightly different tack, if i HAVEN'T ticked the 'Hardcore' post rape option, what is supposed to happen?  Forgive my confusion, but I've always struggled a bit with this 

 

Are none of the possible outcomes listed below that supposed to occur?

 

Reason for asking is that I opted to 'untick' hardcore, but just left the default chance values for the listed options, eg 100 for robbery etc.  The rape event happened OK, the PC was bound up, but was then whipped off to the wilderness with a big message saying 'They Stole My Stuff' (or similar) appearing.  I wasn't expecting that to be a valid progression

 

So are we supposed to set the alternative hardcore option chances to 0 as well, to avoid their occurring? 

 

And if none of them then do happen, what should I expect will happen? ?

 

 

As for all the dramalamadingdong, please just ignore it!  It's not worth losing any grey matter over.  As ever, 99% of the ppl will be happy, and it's only the 1% that jump up and down ?

 

EDIT: and 'complain' instead of trying to be 'constructive'

[Kimy]

Adding a handover point to a mod that's STILL declared by its own creator to be "untested" (in colorful letters!) with the version of the DD framework required by DCL makes no sense. I am not going to hand over the character to a mod that explicitly states that it might or might not be compatible with mine. I said that at least a half dozen times, and I am not sure what part of this stance isn't clear enough. I gave Inte more than a year to update his mods and declare them compatible with DD4, but he has clearly no intention to and said so. That's what compelled me to remove the POP integration a few months back.

 

I might reconsider, once Inte stops his personal crusade against DD4 and makes his stuff officially work with it. Not a moment earlier. Until such a time, I will continue to assume that his mods don't work with mine, because that's what he keeps telling his users in his own download thread. It's his mod, and his decision. *shrug*

 

Ironically, handing over the character to POP from DCL would solve most of the possible clashes between the two mods, because I could do that from my end in a controlled fashion, and when POP wouldn't break DD quests etc.

[JulioRosario89]

Hi Kimy,

 

just wanted to chime in on the chorus of the (previously silent) people that wanted to say that the would really miss your mod if taken down. To be honest, I actually am happy that you expanded your features. I was about to just give up on combat surrender (DA+Defeat and occasionally also Submit) since it stopped working for me a few months back, but then fell your version of it from the sky and I'm kinda grateful for that ?

 

Anyway, love your take on the prison system as well and hope you'll manage to expand it!

[DoctorFateMX]

On 3/23/2019 at 12:02 AM, Lupine00 said:

Spoiler alert: it's actually Glados. Later on the potato will try to kill you.

Can't wait to get out of jail so I can get some cake. 

[WaxenFigure]

14 hours ago, stas2503 said:

@Kimy Is there a way to advance the quest Bound Qween without talking to Gillius? That is, go directly to the search for items?

The game still forced me to upgrade the Cursed Loot to 8.0 ... 

Version 7.5 for some reason refused to work ...

That may turn out to be a mistake, Version 8 requires a New Game and should not be used to upgrade any previous version.  You are likely going to find additional problems and the answer is going to be "Start a new game" and report it if it happens in the new game.

[stas2503]

@WaxenFigure I did some manipulations with saving the game, and the game I began to assume that DCL never had in my loadorder.txt ... This allowed me to install DCL 8.0 without any problems ...

[MrBig]

Got a couple of idea's for you Kimy

 

The Skyrim Straitjacket

 

No one knows where it came from; some say the dollmaker had a hand in its creation while others blame the college or the court wizards of previous Jarls, the only thing for certain is that this straitjacket has a tendency for appearing in the most unlikely of places.

 

When it equips you can no longer fast travel and only the Jarl's have the means of unlocking it but only 1 Jarl at any given time has the capability to do so so you may have to travel across skyrim to find which one however when you do you may need to pay with your body to convince them to release you.

 

honestly just thought it would be nice to have something with just a normal straitjacket it tends to get passed over for other restraints lol

 

imperial/stormcloak conscription suit

 

A new method been tested by both sides of the war hidden around skyrim as a way to help the ongoing effort. A magically locking outfit (that comes in both red and blue variants) if you get locked in an imperial version then you have to go to windhelm or a stormcloak camp and recover some documents but the stormcloaks dont take kindly to imperial spys and will have their way with you as long as you're in the outfit (they may also add some devices along the way). after getting the documents you return to Tullius for release. and vice versa for the stormcloak version.

 

both sides are aware of the suits but think its good for the soldiers so always keep a few unimportant documents on hand just in case.

 

Keeping up morale

 

Couldn't decide on this one on which way would play out better so here's both ideas.

 

Either you get fully bound and have to go to either a stormcloak or imperial camp and service everyone

or

You get bound with a single item like a collar and have to go to multiple camps and service the leader and each one will add another item to you.

 

[WaxenFigure]

Honestly!

 

The license on DCL is pretty standard and just like pretty much any other modder here is meant to provide the legal juju to tell any other site the mod pops up on *without  permission* to take it down.  It also allows the modder the potential recourse for dealing with the occasional complete ass dropping who will take a major mod like this, post it on another site and then blatantly claim they made the mod and even want people to pay them for a copy of it.

That is WHY the license is there, it gives Kimy the right to tell the sites hosting those that they must remove the offending copy.

 

As for the rest, well yes there's been some personality clashes.  That's the kind of thing that happens when people interact, best if everyone can calm down and get over it but sometimes that takes longer and sometimes it simply never happens.  That's how the world works because, well "people".

 

There is in fact not a single thing in that license agreement that prevents anyone from creating a mod that alters how this mod works in some major or trivial fashion from posting that mod here on LL.

 

If you're angry, I suggest loading the game and taking your anger out on some favorite target like Nazeem rather than here.

 

 

[Darkwing241]

5 hours ago, Kimy said:

Adding a handover point to a mod that's STILL declared by its own creator to be "untested" (in colorful letters!) with the version of the DD framework required by DCL makes no sense.

 

Kimy can seem a little cranky at sometimes, but the situation with Inte's mods is super fucked up.  There are basically two rules in modding.

 

1. don't steal (not happening here)

2. always update your mod to the modder version of the framework it relies on

 

If you don't follow rule 1, people will probably stop making stuff.  If you don't follow rule 2 people CAN'T make stuff.

 

There are differences between being mean/rude/demanding and doing something that is objectively wrong.  If everyone here was being super polite to each other and there was nothing but love here, we would still have a problem.  The only solution is for people to update their mods.

 

 

[WaxenFigure]

44 minutes ago, stas2503 said:

@WaxenFigure I did some manipulations with saving the game, and the game I began to assume that DCL never had in my loadorder.txt ... This allowed me to install DCL 8.0 without any problems ...

Ok, but still if you run into another problem later with this save you know what the answer will be.  As long as you  understand that, there's really no problem and I hope you do not have any problems.

[stas2503]

@WaxenFigure hmm .. for me this is not particularly critical ... if I find a problem, it costs me nothing to check for the existence of this problem in a new game ... MO allows you to have an unlimited number of new game options ...
The conservation manipulations that I usually spend were not valid for me in only one case ... and this case is not related to this mod ...

[bubba999]

I would like to chime in that I love DCL and won't even play Skyrim without it! IF Kimy threw up her hands and walked away it would be a disaster!!

 

 

[Rynnes Master]

1 hour ago, bubba999 said:

I would like to chime in that I love DCL and won't even play Skyrim without it! IF Kimy threw up her hands and walked away it would be a disaster!!

 

 

I couldn't have said it better!   This nonsense in the last five pages or so should stop;  it helps enjoying Skyrim and DCL not one bit.

[stas2503]

I have a problem with the mod, which is observed since version 6.2. When a trap is triggered, devices will be equipped for a very long time. Sometimes it takes up to 10 minutes ... At first I thought that I had a weak PC, but I recently upgraded my PC, but the problem did not go away ...

If you need any logs, I can provide them ...