Deviously Cursed Loot LE 9.0 (2021-03-09)

[stas2503]

4 minutes ago, Kimy said:

Can somebody explain to me what the problem here is? SD+ and the DCL prison cannot run at the same time, so....???

If you go to bed, then there is a chance that the player will fall into the SD Dreamworld location to be enslaved by Sanguine, but the player will immediately be returned back, and an escape attempt will be counted and the sentence will be extended ... and so can be indefinitely ...

[Kimy]

1 minute ago, stas2503 said:

If you go to bed, then there is a chance that the player will fall into the SD Dreamworld location to be enslaved by Sanguine, but the player will immediately be returned back, and an escape attempt will be counted and the sentence will be extended ... and so can be indefinitely ...

Ah, I get it! I will see what I can do about it. I have only a rudimentary idea of how SD+ works, but I will come up with something!

[Yuuen]

6 minutes ago, Kimy said:

Can somebody explain to me what the problem here is? SD+ and the DCL prison cannot run at the same time, so....???

SD+ will sometimes hijack sleeping and send people to the dreamworld. This is something you can shut off in SD so I don't really see this as a DCL issue.

[stas2503]

2 minutes ago, Yuuen said:

SD+ will sometimes hijack sleeping and send people to the dreamworld. This is something you can shut off in SD so I don't really see this as a DCL issue.

This function does not work correctly in SD +, and there is always a 20% chance that the player will be sent to SD Dreamworld ... This function was broken back in version 3.5.9 and still does not work in 3.6.2 ...
And besides SD + there are other mods that send the player to a different location during sleep ... Then I think it would be advisable to ban sleep and waiting in prison, and to diversify night time ...

[Yuuen]

1 minute ago, stas2503 said:

This function does not work correctly in SD +, and there is always a 20% chance that the player will be sent to SD Dreamworld ... This function was broken back in version 3.5.9 and still does not work in 3.6.2 ...
And besides SD + there are other mods that send the player to a different location during sleep ... Then I think it would be advisable to ban sleep and waiting in prison, and to diversify night time ...

I have it set to 0% and it's always worked pretty consistently for me.
Disabling both Dreamworld starting options definitely works.

[Tenri]

IIRC Captured Dreams had a quest where you are sent to the Thalmor Embassy as a sex toy, it has you there for a few "days" it doesn't have you actually sleep though, you activate the bedroll and it simulates sleeping (I don't remember if the time actually advances and you don't go outside at all between arriving and leaving the embassy), only problem with this or not letting you sleep at all is needs mods need you to actually sleep.

[Lupine00]

16 minutes ago, Tenri said:

IIRC Captured Dreams had a quest where you are sent to the Thalmor Embassy as a sex toy, it has you there for a few "days" it doesn't have you actually sleep though, you activate the bedroll and it simulates sleeping (I don't remember if the time actually advances and you don't go outside at all between arriving and leaving the embassy), only problem with this or not letting you sleep at all is needs mods need you to actually sleep.

It still has it  but yes, it's described accurately I believe.

 

I don't know why CD decided not to use normal sleep and handle the sleep events if you tried to sleep too long, or otherwise upset things.

 

However, not using real sleep breaks needs mods. My guess is that Kimy allowed real sleep for this exact reason.

 

Incidentally, DCL supports iNeed when checking for Rubber Doll etc. though I don't believe it detects whether it's enabled. You can have iNeed in your LO, but never start it up. Same with RND, in fact. That's generally a non-issue, so I probably needn't have mentioned it.

 

I haven't observed the bug attributed to SD+ but in any case, I have a strong suspicion it doesn't happen in all sleeping locations, only certain inns.

I believe that SD+ does not send you to the dreamworld when sleeping while you're enslaved unless you die.

 

So, in the case that SD+ is discovered, adding the player to the enslaved faction probably stops dreamworld visits.

 

I should look at the SD+ code, but Kimy surely has it in hand already.

[CoOpLab]

I have a problem. Chloe's voice/dialogue doesn't seem to have any sound/output? any ideas on fixing it?

[stas2503]

3 minutes ago, CoOpLab said:

I have a problem. Chloe's voice/dialogue doesn't seem to have any sound/output? any ideas on fixing it?

so it should be ... the mod does not have the voice of the characters ...

[liruidong]

1 hour ago, liruidong said:

It seems that there are some problems in spirits of DCL which cause touch of control dose not work with NPC.

I used the spirits of the previous version instead. This spell did work.

@Kimy There are some problems in dcur_restraintspellScript.pex. Could you have a look ?

[Zaflis]

1 hour ago, random11714 said:

>> I did have the guards attack me , that was because i skipped through the dialogue faster then it wanted me too. Maybe that reason? It worked wehen i just let it go it's own pace. Not sure about the second punishment, haven't had that.

 

That was it, thank you. It worked fine if I let the dialogue progress at its own speed.

This is a little problematic issue, and it seems everyone encounters it. It's only natural to click to dismiss talk dialogs, not to wait them finish. We only do that with daedric lords when the UI doesn't actually let us dismiss it early. Getting attacked by guards that come to arrest you is not fun experience. If this is let be as it is, the posts about it are going to keep coming for long time in the future.

 

I've been trying to follow the PoP discussion to understand it so i guess this relates to vanilla form being overridden? Something may have come skipped that was supposed to be handled. Or the arrest is done in different way in the dialog/event flow.

 

And speaking of messages that just keep coming is about finding the quartermaster. What if the hatch downstairs would be moved next to the door that leads outside? It would be much harder to miss, and be in a more lighted position for people with dark ENB's. But more importantly the quest itself might hint what kind of door to look for.

[stas2503]

@Kimy Is there a way to advance the quest Bound Qween without talking to Gillius? That is, go directly to the search for items?

The game still forced me to upgrade the Cursed Loot to 8.0 ... 

Version 7.5 for some reason refused to work ...

[Twycross448]

@Kimy

 

Just a small question, Kimy. With your new crime feature, you give the option in the MCM to disable it (sort of). Does this toggle shut that aspect of DCL off completely so mods like POP or other prison related mods could run their stuff?

[Brumka1]

Hi, I have a problem. During the first scene in prison, Mod defines my attack on the guards. Looks like some kind of cloak effect mod that runs during sex. Can someone help?Thanks

[Zaflis]

42 minutes ago, Twycross448 said:

@Kimy

 

Just a small question, Kimy. With your new crime feature, you give the option in the MCM to disable it (sort of). Does this toggle shut that aspect of DCL off completely so mods like POP or other prison related mods could run their stuff?

Not completely, in that the dialog with guard will be made by DCL. It's in that where POP would want to take control/have a presence. It's the same dialog that determines if it even is a prison or some other (DCL) outcome.

 

Copying the dialog source to POP and adding it to the possible outcomes would violate the "redistributing modified assets" rule. However completely overriding the whole event with your own code propably is still legit. It would bypass DCL completely.

[thedarkone1234]

A wierd bug (older than 8.0) that I encountered again: Jullius from the bound queen quest often uses wrong sex animations. I mean REALLY wrong, like me holding him in Zyn Lesbian and such. It happens almost every time I return to him after a mission. Reloading a save that I make just before talking to him and trying again gives an acceptable animation. Is it a bug on DCL side or do I have some problematic settings in Sexlab or something?

[thedarkone1234]

1 hour ago, stas2503 said:

@Kimy Is there a way to advance the quest Bound Qween without talking to Gillius? That is, go directly to the search for items?

The game still forced me to upgrade the Cursed Loot to 8.0 ... 

Version 7.5 for some reason refused to work ...

I didnt know the game can know about updated versions for its mods. If you mean 7.5 refuses to work with POP, that is because POP stopped working as soon as the walk of shame was up.

[stas2503]

19 minutes ago, thedarkone1234 said:

I didnt know the game can know about updated versions for its mods. If you mean 7.5 refuses to work with POP, that is because POP stopped working as soon as the walk of shame was up.

No, the mod does not know how to do it  ... The mod just stopped working for me ...   And if this is the case, then I reinstalled a more recent version of the mod ...

And I don't use POP...

[MaikCG]

7 hours ago, Kimy said:

Oh right! Apparently I got an obligation to support iNeeds too!

 

Anybody else got any demands what I need to support, while we're at it? Because it seems by publishing a mod I somehow entered a contract with each and every one of you, that I am your personal coding slave. Or something like that. 

Instead of supporting another mod, You can wrong in the description of the object properties. I looked through all the mods I had, all the new food has the necessary keyword.

 

You made dcur_smellysalve, dcur_stinkypaste, dcur_stinkybase and they have the keyword "VendorItemPoison" Why for dcur_prison_stew and dcur_prison_water you forgot to use the correct keywordword that any Skyrim food has? So it's your personal inattention when creating content and ignoring the possible work of other mods.

 

Great. You need redo the system of needs, the new food, drink, the need for sleep, their buffs and debuffs. And after this block RND, iNeed, MiniNeeds, etc, if you consider it possible to block a vanilla arrest (payment of fine, thane privilege) or POP.

[DonQuiWho]

1 hour ago, MaikCG said:

Instead of supporting another mod, You can wrong in the description of the object properties. I looked through all the mods I had, all the new food has the necessary keyword.

 

You made dcur_smellysalve, dcur_stinkypaste, dcur_stinkybase and they have the keyword "VendorItemPoison" Why for dcur_prison_stew and dcur_prison_water you forgot to use the correct keywordword that any Skyrim food has? So it's your personal inattention when creating content and ignoring the possible work of other mods.

 

Great. You need redo the system of needs, the new food, drink, the need for sleep, their buffs and debuffs. And after this block RND, iNeed, MiniNeeds, etc, if you consider it possible to block a vanilla arrest (payment of fine, thane privilege) or POP.

FWIW, that sounds reasonable if you read it carefully 2 or 3 times

 

But if you are using Google translate or something else to provide an English version, when first read, you should know that it makes you sound very rude. 

 

I expect that is probably not what you intend, but Google may not your friend on this

 

I hope that helps

[Azengar]

9 hours ago, Lupine00 said:

Isn't this restating the monopoly thing?

 

Kimy has a right to protect DCL however she sees fit.

 

If you happen to have a very popular mod - and then you disallow anything that modifies that mod, or any of its code, and then you use that mod to lock out another mod - and then make a statement that any patch that overcomes that lockout is a license violation...

 

Is this a reasonable policy with regard to support - which is offered primarily by the community anyway - or is it explicit leverage of a user-base to hurt another mod?

 

You can interpret it either way. To put the most malicious spin on it without any evidence is simply "trial by smear". 

We simply cannot know why a thing is done, but we can see the results.

 

 

People should be aware that DD also has similar licensing terms to DCL, which prevent any distribution of a modification of DD, despite provision of the source. The basis for DD - of course - is not simply its code base, but also the assets it uses. Some of those assets are taken from elsewhere, and open to use by anyone, others are the sole property of DD.

 

Personally, in the case of a shared framework, like DD, I find this somewhat obstructive. DD contains code and assets from many people, and copies code snippets from many other mods that came before - as does DCL for that matter. People should be aware that when they use DD, it's not in any real sense open source, because if you used the code in it to make anything like DD, the proprietors of DD could (or would?) come after you. The value of the DD source is as a document that allows you to interoperate successfully with DD, because you aren't really allowed to use it for anything else. At least, I cannot think of many useful applications for the majority of the original parts of that code beyond implementing something exactly like DD.

 

That a shared framework in a largely open-source modding environment, is so tightly controlled, on a site where people are frequently very permissive about use, and give freely to the community, seems counter to the spirit of LL modding. While DD itself is given freely, just as DCL is given freely, they are not technically given, they are loaned, and you may lose the right to use them at any time in the future. As a modder, when you build on top of DD, you cannot be sure it will be there tomorrow, and you cannot be sure it won't be arbitrarily changed to deliberately block your mod (though this has never been done, and hopefully never will). If DD adds a check for your ESP and shuts down if it finds it, you can't patch that out, because you aren't allowed to modify DD.

 

Now seems an interesting time to raise this, what with Oracle now charging for the use of Java, a language and framework they promised they would never charge for.

 

Kimy has never shown any sign of making such egregious moves as described above, but what if Kimy walks away from Skyrim tomorrow? Who will end up controlling DD, and what will they do with it? Personally, I have no idea.

 

So that's one of my little cavils about how the DD team operates. Contributions are not invited, offers of help are silently ghosted, and lost members are not replaced, and there is no possibility to extend it independently because that is explicitly prohibited. Instead of being the shared responsibility of a decent sized working-group that would be resilient to churn of its members, it's in the hands a tiny group. If it is ever taken down, then it's gone, you cannot recreate it without remaking every script file and DD-owned asset from scratch.

Sorry if I'm late to answer, I was sleeping.

To be honest I understand your concern but what I want to say is that the decision belongs only to her, and she bought so much to the community that she has every right to have the final word. If someone wants to write a custom DD framework completely open they can always do so.

Besides you say that there is no possibility to extend it which is wrong, as stated in the permission section of DDi:

 

• You can NOT publish a fork of this mod (as in using it as a base for a project offering similar functionality) without permission. That includes porting it to other platforms/games.

 

Which mean that you have to get permission first but not that it's completely impossible.

[Guest]

7 hours ago, Lupine00 said:

It's confusing when you write things that have already been said in a way that specifically looks as if you're correcting something, when you're simply repeating it.

 

As I already observed, owning a copy of the repository is no help to the people who don't already have one, because you aren't allowed to distribute it, because of the mod it contains, which you have no rights to.

 

" You can NOT post this mod or any of its parts (including any derived works) outsides of LL without my explicit permission. "

 

You can post the full mod on LL. Maybe future versions will say you can never repost anywhere without permission (they won't say that, probably). But for all released versions permissions say they can be re uploaded if for some reason they go away.

[Lupine00]

45 minutes ago, Azengar said:

Which mean that you have to get permission first but not that it's completely impossible.

I think in that case getting permission would be perfectly described by verging on impossible.

 

As I intimated, the biggest obstacle to creating a DD alternative is not the code, but the assets.

I guess if you wanted to do it that badly you could just pay an animator.

 

There isn't a reason to make a competitor to DD though. It would be a huge amount of work setting up all those items. It has taken years to make DD what it is.

 

A more pertinent issue is how would things play out if it was taken down and its use prohibited by its creators?

When people get this angry about things, such things do happen.

It's happened to other mods in the past, it can happen here.

Though I would imagine at this point, the person most likely to quit Skyrim mods is Inte.

[MaikCG]

You like the DCL, but you don’t like its prison implementation?
You Thane and you want to send a guard on a pedestrian trip?
You oligarch with a million in your pocket and just want to pay the guard?

 

Open Deviously Cursed Loot.esp in Tes5Edit, find dialog topic xx0FE4EA and change condition:

Subject.GetCrimeGold > 0 AND
to
Subject.GetCrimeGold > 10000.000000 AND

Now, until your fine exceeds 10,000 gold, using the standard arrest dialogues. POP works. This is the easiest way to disable this version of DCL jail.. But if you want adventure, deserve a high fine and go ahead.

[Kimy]

All right. Seems the last few pages were mostly about how sinister I am as a person, whether or not there is a way to wrestle control over my own mod from me in case the "community" deems necessary to do so, and how to best defile features I purposefully included in my mod without violating my licence terms.

 

I find this offensive and insulting.

 

I am currently mulling about how to go forward with this. Don't be surprised if you don't like the conclusions I might draw from it.