Deviously Cursed Loot LE 9.0 (2021-03-09)

[Lostdreamer]

I was about to send this by PM because i kinda felt like I should say it, then I realised I should probably post it here and say it in public.

 

To Kimy:

 

Thank you.

Thank you for your hard work on DCL and other mods.  They are one of the biggest reasons I have been able to enjoy playing skyrim for several years now.

 

And I don't like DCL despite it's broad range of extra functionality beyond booby trapped dungeons - but because of this. DCL is a single mod that brings a lot to the party, and does it in a very easy to use and well integrated way.

 

I may not always agree with some of the creative choices, but that isn't the point. I'm not the one putting the hours in to make and write the mod. I am choosing to use the mod as a whole, and am enjoying doing so and hope to continue doing so.

 

Just because I havn't joined in on the recent flame war does not mean I do not appreacheate the effort yourself - and many others - are putting in to make my game more fun to play.

 

Thank you again.

[Kimy]

7 minutes ago, crazyduck said:

Kimy i can understand you like your vision comes to life i really can understand that i startet modding for skyrim but not enough time to really work much on my mod, but i also made mods for other games and yes i also was happy if something worked or a idea works and some complex stuff starts to work as planned.

 

But at same time, i never had a problem if someone told me he dont like this or that and asked me if it could be changed, as long as its not much work for me i possibel change it or tell the people to change it if they want it different.

 

you say setting another bounty value butcher the entire crime overhaul, why? Cause cursed loot now dont play the different outcomes for low bounty crime? If yes also if you and many others like all the outcomes make a config value for them so people can select them. I woudl as example have no problem wiht getting a belt , but the walk of shame is nothing i like very much cause its for me to much running around and hoping someone has the key. and your Prison as much as like the design for me its gets boring really fast cause same task everytime at same plan and not one bit of difference every day.

At same time i like most other parts of  your mod like cursed chests, the dollmaker, sasha, chloe and her quest or the solicitation feature.

 

Why not add some sort of simple Toggle for crime values, if someone dont like one of the outcomes it can be disabled rest stay active

 

Its not like People like me want to butcher your mod or ruin your hard work , as i said i like your mod very much since found this page its in my load order but the crime system as i said before , i dont like how it curerntly works.

Thats why i asked earlier if you can tell which features exaclty would not work anymore if this bouty value is changed , after i looked in your arrest script it seems it only disables other outcomes since there will be no low bounty crime anymore, if there are other things hooking into this would be nice if you could possible tell which features .

 

And about support, sure people will ask for support, but i think most people are not that stupid to ask the Mod Author of the main mod for support if something does not work after they add a patch for this mod from another modder.

 

Well, what you're essentially saying is that I could prevent people from butchering my mod by bowing to their demands. That's really what it boils down to, no? "Do what we want, or we'll butcher your mod!!!"

 

And people really wonder why I am reacting to this the way I do?

[crazyduck]

13 minutes ago, Kimy said:

Well, what you're essentially saying is that I could prevent people from butchering my mod by bowing to their demands. That's really what it boils down to, no? "Do what we want, or we'll butcher your mod!!!"

 

And people really wonder why I am reacting to this the way I do?

Thats not what i meant kimy, really not.

 

Let me try to explain what i meant.

I dont say you must add config values in your MCM , or that you must add compatiblity to mod x or mod y thats only your decision and if you dont want to add compatiblity to mod X or Y its ok too.

 

But modding always meant (for me) that many different people create new content, and it woudl always be impossible that everyone will be happy about a change to a mod.

But at same time, i woudl not see it as butchering if someone woudl make a patch to modify a value, a outcome or something he dont like, cause for me it would show me also if someone dont like option X he likes the rest or he would not want to modify this one thing he dont like or dont want to use.

As i said for me i like most parts from cursed loot , and some stuff can be configured as example combat surrender or rape feature (both disabled in my game) but at same time i use as example dragonborn in distress and cant use its crime feature cause without changing this 1 value your mod will always override dragonborn in distress.

But that does not mean i dont like the rest of your mod.

 

So also if you dont want to add toggles for this things, why its such a issue for you if others want to do it? If someone would make a patch and this patch would destroy important parts of cursed loot its not your fault or something you need to fix.

 

Same now with the Current Crime Feature, only changing bounty value is not the best solution so to modify it more and make it work also with low bountys and at same time offer outcomes from as example dragonborn in distress or other mods the scripts must be modified.

 

But why you think People butchering your mod if they like it that much that they keep it in load order and want to use it but only want to modify 1 or 2 values of it?

 

And bowing to demands no, thats nothing i asked for Kimy, i only asked if you can explain to me why itwould be such a Problem for you if someone make a working patch for cursed loot allowing your crime system to work togehter with other outcomes from other mods, and if other featues as only the crime outcomes will be affectet if people use this bounty value change postet some pages earlier.

 

Cause yes if you would say ok its ok to make patches but if it ruins your game your own fault i would think it would be great, but as long as you dont remove source scripts  so its impossible to modify it for my own use its ok for me too, i just try to understand why this would be such a problem for you.

[JulioRosario89]

2 hours ago, Psalam said:

What is it about April and LoversLab? Last April I was on the ZAP thread defending T.ara from people who couldn't do what he does in their dreams. Now I find myself on DCL doing the same for Kimy. Perhaps T.S. Eliot had it right:

 

          April is the cruelest month springing flowers from the dead ground.

 

I am not going to say anything brilliant or even new. Laura Lokomootje has presented the basic facts and is entirely correct. Let me try, as I have before, to present it another way. Rule 1 of LL is that the site exists, first and foremost, for mod authors. It's nice that people like me can come here and use the material that they sweated over to make work. I am grateful for it. But, I am not the "target audience." It's like a restaurant that makes itself "hip" in order to attract celebrities knowing that, in turn, their presence will draw the hoi polloi (such as myself). Therefore, as I understand Rule 1, anything that makes a mod author "pissed off" is a violation of the rules. Failure to appreciate that, especially after said mod author makes it clear that they are "pissed off" is a violation of Rule 2 ("don't be a jerk"). So, if you are unhappy with this mod please, please make a better one. I really enjoy DCL but wouldn't complain if you can make a better one.

 

Speaking of making a better one, let's talk piracy here. When you take someone else's work and present it as your own, that's piracy. So, if you take parts of the mod and post them as your mod or "fix" then you are guilty of piracy. Kimy (and most of LL's mod authors) are completely fine with someone taking their mod and making changes to it for their own personal use. Once you move past that you must ask the mod author's permission prior to using their work. This is simply common courtesy. Pretending that you are simply showing how to use TES5Edit is not an excuse. I have an entire blog on how to fix and avoid CTDs. THAT is the place for "educating" people. Feel free to take the information you have and say "this is how to effectively use TES5Edit." Maybe, like me, you are interested in consolidating the information about the topic into one place to make things easier for people looking for it. However, placing it on this thread as a fix is arrogant and just plain wrong. Going further and telling the mod's author that she is wrong for not being understanding is RUDE (don't be a jerk) and wrong.

 

And speaking of telling the mod author that she is wrong it is the height of ingratitude to tell someone who's given you something for free, which has clearly been enjoyable for you or you wouldn't bother to be here, that she now has a further responsibility to you. To expand on a metaphor I've used before, it's not just telling someone who's given you a Toyota Camry that they're a cheapskate for not giving you a Lexus, it is also telling them that now that they've given it to you they are responsible for paying for the gas and oil change. Mods placed here on LL are available "as is" and "at the user's risk." No one is forcing you to use this mod or any other mod. Further, the mod author clearly has no responsibility to put out even the level of information available on this thread much less make known whatever you may want to know. I say "clearly" since there is far less documentation for most mods than there is for DCL. You may take her advice about the mod that she has created and is, therefore, intimately familiar with, or you can go off with it in your own manner (for your personal use) and deal with the consequences of doing that.

 

Lastly (only because I hate putting up a "wall of text") a mod's author has no responsibility to make patches for or to make her mod adapt to other mods. Members of the community may, politely, request patches or changes. My experience is that Kimy has been more open to those than most mod authors and is willing to give an explanation when she says "no" even if it is just "that is not the direction I want to take this mod in." Doing that IS entirely her right (see Rule 1 if you need clarification again).

 

So, please, can we now move on before the Moderators feel the need to delete the last four pages of posts becuase of "drama"?

Amen to that, brothers and sisters! Can we please stop now and move on?

[karlpaws]

16 minutes ago, crazyduck said:

Its not like People like me want to butcher your mod or ruin your hard work

Then don't butcher it, offer to butcher it or try to mooch and beg.  What is often overlooked in free games and game mods is that there is intellectual property involved. There are laws regarding this kind of thing. While mods may or may not truly belong to the modder and may instead belong to the company that made the game, they do not belong to all and an author can put restrictions on a work that you must abide by.  If a mod author wishes to explain all reasoning and mechanics or not, you take what they give and be happy, or follow the next instruction:

 

16 minutes ago, crazyduck said:

i dont like how it curerntly works.

 

Then don't use it and go make your own.  (which after reading a few more posts, I see a few other people did suggest.)

 

16 minutes ago, crazyduck said:

And about support, sure people will ask for support, but i think most people are not that stupid to ask the Mod Author of the main mod for support if something does not work after they add a patch for this mod from another modder.

 

This is as naive a statement as there is.  People will ask for help of the author and not only not provide useful info but also neglect to mention they are using said butchering patch, leading the mod author to chase down rabbit holes that do not lead anywhere useful due to using said patch, and only after much work is expended, mention "oh, and I have this installed".  There are forums filled with such questions, stories from developers, tech support people and such going back decades.

[GreatCroco]

5 hours ago, GenioMaestro said:

But Nexus has more than 60k mods and I have not seen any other mod that needs a new game to work and less to update

What big mods do you have that don't require a new save? Frostfall does, Campfire does, Blackthorn does, Windstead does.

You don't seem to understand Skyrim's save game at all. Not the scripts are baked into the save. Their respective variables and values are and keeping them will cause issues later down the line. How impact-full those are? It depends. The range can go from slight script lag to completely broken quests.

 

As for load order rearranging:

Every mod has a two digit hexadecimal prefix, ranging from 00 to FF (with 00 and 01 reserved for skyrim.esm and update.esm). That's where the 254 mod limit comes from. Each FormId inside the game consists of the prefix and a 6 digit hexadecimal id. Any used id is baked into the savegame when the object is spawned. It's later used to reference the object. Changing the load order and thus the prefix will therefore cause issues.

 

A general rule of thumb for Skyrim (be it LE or SE):

a) if you install new mods mid game, do it only at the end of the load order

b) never rearrange the load order or remove mods from it

c) Don't upgrade mods that have an esp (and therefore add stuff to the game), texture and model replacers are fine to upgrade.

 

2 hours ago, GenioMaestro said:

Can anyone prove that DCL version 8.0 does NOT work properly in a clean save?

Yup I can. I wanted to test if DCUR worked with an old save and every time I got to prison the game crashed. Lesser crimes (e.g. walk of shame) worked fine as did every crime after i disabled the prison.

So stop questioning everything like a 13 year old edge-lord and trust the people who know what they are doing.

 

6 hours ago, MaikCG said:

From the point of view of juridical casuistry, I modify not the code of Kimy, but the code of Bethesda.

No you do not. Bethesda didn't write DCUR, Kimy did. Therefore you modified hers. And no, just because the base game has modding tools it doesn't make every mod Bethesda's property.

By that logic a writer wouldn't have any rights to his book since the piece he wrote it on (be it paper, or a PC/Mac) was manufactured by someone else.

 

1 hour ago, crazyduck said:

Sure ignoring if such a patch would cause Bugs is fine i dont think someone would ask kimy to support the patch XYZ overwriting function Z of her Mod or fix a bug with this Patch.

 

Not to sound rude, but you never actually did create any bigger mod for a game did you?

People will change your mod (be it directly or indirectly though "compatibility patches") and they will blame the mod's author if a feature from said mod doesn't work. They have no clue that their changes are responsible, it's always the mod author, always.

Oh and some will even demand (yes, you read that correctly) that a mod author fix a (compatibility) patch they didn't make because "the mod is literally unplayable without it".

 

Strike the phrase "people wouldn't do that" from your mind when it comes to mods. They WILL do it. Some people (especially if they don't belong to the silent majority) are entitled pricks that take the Porsche if given the a small finger.

[Zaflis]

17 minutes ago, crazyduck said:

, and some stuff can be configured as example combat surrender or rape feature (both disabled in my game) but at same time i use as example dragonborn in distress and cant use its crime feature cause without changing this 1 value your mod will always override dragonborn in distress.

DiD doesn't have a crime feature at all, it's only combat surrender which DCL can disable. The mods are well compatible.

 

edit: I see there might be a little bit added to the vanilla prison, but i think that will still be compatible with DCL when you set it use vanilla.

[Kimy]

4 minutes ago, crazyduck said:

Thats not what i meant kimy, really not.

 

Let me try to explain what i meant.

I dont say you must add config values in your MCM , or that you must add compatiblity to mod x or mod y thats only your decision and if you dont want to add compatiblity to mod X or Y its ok too.

 

But modding always meant (for me) that many different people create new content, and it woudl always be impossible that everyone will be happy about a change to a mod.

But at same time, i woudl not see it as butchering if someone woudl make a patch to modify a value, a outcome or something he dont like, cause for me it would show me also if someone dont like option X he likes the rest or he would not want to modify this one thing he dont like or dont want to use.

As i said for me i like most parts from cursed loot , and some stuff can be configured as example combat surrender or rape feature (both disabled in my game) but at same time i use as example dragonborn in distress and cant use its crime feature cause without changing this 1 value your mod will always override dragonborn in distress.

But that does not mean i dont like the rest of your mod.

 

So also if you dont want to add toggles for this things, why its such a issue for you if others want to do it? If someone would make a patch and this patch would destroy important parts of cursed loot its not your fault or something you need to fix.

 

Same now with the Current Crime Feature, only changing bounty value is not the best solution so to modify it more and make it work also with low bountys and at same time offer outcomes from as example dragonborn in distress or other mods the scripts must be modified.

 

But why you think People butchering your mod if they like it that much that they keep it in load order and want to use it but only want to modify 1 or 2 values of it?

One value, eh? Changing that one value essentially disables several features weighing about 2,000 lines of code, I worked almost full-time hours on for three months to complete.

 

And sure, I get why they keep it in their load order. Because they are cherry-pickers. They want to have the cake and eat it. I get the idea. Use what you want, butcher the rest!!!

 

Here is the thing: I feel that my work has a right to remain to remain intact even when it clashes with other people's stuff. Users have a right to chose what they install and what not. DCL is one of the largest mods on LL and yet I have never, ever intentionally butchered somebody else's work to make mine work better. You know, instead of putting a whole lot of work into making a prison mod from scratch, I could have taken POP, deleted everything that clashes with my mods, and made it use DD devices instead. It would have taken me a fraction of the workload to do that. According to you guys' logic, that would have been ok, no? Well, I don't agree to that point of view. Whatever I might think of Inte, but his work has a right not to be butchered by me just because it might not fit into my personal agenda. Fellow modders should respect each other and their work THAT much. But maybe it's just me. *shrug*

 

 

[El_Duderino]

32 minutes ago, tester86 said:

I remember watching a movie once and thinking, "wow, that ending sucked."  It never once dawned on me to demand that the makers of the movie change the movie into what I thought it should be and I paid to see the movie. It would be even more egregious to demand it being changed to my vision if I didn't pay for it. To make outwardly hostile posts about a mod or the author who spends weeks and weeks of their life creating something that thousands of people enjoy and then puts that work up for FREE is beyond incomprehensible to me. 

Very well said!

 

Now can the nay-sayers please give it a rest and either accept this mod as it is or move on to do something else -- but in either case, respect Kimy's work and the really not extraordinary rules for the mod?

[crazyduck]

15 minutes ago, Kimy said:

One value, eh? Changing that one value essentially disables several features weighing about 2,000 lines of code, I worked almost full-time hours on for three months to complete.

 

And sure, I get why they keep it in their load order. Because they are cherry-pickers. They want to have the cake and eat it. I get the idea. Use what you want, butcher the rest!!!

 

Here is the thing: I feel that my work has a right to remain to remain intact even when it clashes with other people's stuff. Users have a right to chose what they install and what not. DCL is one of the largest mods on LL and yet I have never, ever intentionally butchered somebody else's work to make mine work better. You know, instead of putting a whole lot of work into making a prison mod from scratch, I could have taken POP, deleted everything that clashes with my mods, and made it use DD devices instead. It would have taken me a fraction of the workload to do that. According to you guys' logic, that would have been ok, no? Well, I don't agree to that point of view. Whatever I might think of Inte, but his work has a right not to be butchered by me just because it might not fit into my personal agenda. Fellow modders should respect each other and their work THAT much. But maybe it's just me. *shrug*

 

 

I never said in any of my Posts it would be ok to "steal" code from other mods or steal entire Mods and modify them and release them again , seems you misunderstood me or throw me into the same group of "stealing, releasing again is ok " people.

 

And you call it cherrypicking, tell me would it be really that bad if someone who dont like one part of your mod but at same time like the rest of your work could disable this one part he dont like? Sounds not like butchering for me also not like cherrypicking.

 

so to be honest i really dont get it why your answer to me is now that agressive, as i said i never said stealing code , stealing entire mods , changing entire mods and releasing them again is ok and no i also think that this would be ok .

I only said i dont understand why it would be such a issue for you if you add a function to disable your cime system or reduce priority of your dialogue so it does not block the normal crime dialog or allow other people to make a patch for it.

 

But really kimy no need to attack me and telling me stuff about code stealing and that i think that woudl be ok,

 

Oh and about the Cake and eat it, if someone wants the cake but dont like the cherrys on top  of it i dont think the person who made the cake would think its butchered cuase this person remove the cherrys from it.

 

Oh and about users have the right to choose, thats true, and often people must choose cause its impossible somethign work togehter but why you want people must choose if it can easily work togehter?

 

Oh and about the One Value thing, yes i already thought it would disable much more as only the dialogue for crimes until it hits the set amount of bounty. But why some people did or want to do that? Not cause they want to disable this 2000 lines of code , but only cause they did not want to be forced to use only your crime system if it can easily work togehter with other mods.

 

And away from patches or TESEdit Changes, why not offer a way for other mods to hook into your crime system? Something like use it to add other Outcomes from other Mods?

you have currently some outcomes shoudl be possibel that other modders add new outcomes to it if your Crime System allow that, woudl that not be a option without allowing patches from other Modders or dirty TESedit Changes?

[Kimy]

2 minutes ago, crazyduck said:

I never said in any of my Posts it would be ok to "steal" code from other mods or steal entire Mods and modify them and release them again , seems you misunderstood me or throw me into the same group of "stealing, releasing again is ok " people.

 

And you call it cherrypicking, tell me would it be really that bad if someone who dont like one part of your mod but at same time like the rest of your work could disable this one part he dont like? Sounds not like butchering for me also not like cherrypicking.

 

so to be honest i really dont get it why your answer to me is now that agressive, as i said i never said stealing code , stealing entire mods , changing entire mods and releasing them again is ok and no i also think that this would be ok .

I only said i dont understand why it would be such a issue for you if you add a function to disable your cime system or reduce priority of your dialogue so it does not block the normal crime dialog or allow other people to make a patch for it.

 

But really kimy no need to attack me and telling me stuff about code stealing and that i think that woudl be ok,

 

Oh and about the Cake and eat it, if someone wants the cake but dont like the cherrys on top  of it i dont think the person who made the cake would think its butchered cuase this person remove the cherrys from it.

I guess your Google Translator had a hiccup. I didn't use the word "steal" one single time in my posting.

[Psalam]

Quote

6 minutes ago, crazyduck said:

I never said in any of my Posts it would be ok to "steal" code from other mods or steal entire Mods and modify them and release them again , seems you misunderstood me or throw me into the same group of "stealing, releasing again is ok " people.

 

And you call it cherrypicking, tell me would it be really that bad if someone who dont like one part of your mod but at same time like the rest of your work could disable this one part he dont like? Sounds not like butchering for me also not like cherrypicking.

 

so to be honest i really dont get it why your answer to me is now that agressive, as i said i never said stealing code , stealing entire mods , changing entire mods and releasing them again is ok and no i also think that this would be ok .

I only said i dont understand why it would be such a issue for you if you add a function to disable your cime system or reduce priority of your dialogue so it does not block the normal crime dialog or allow other people to make a patch for it.

 

But really kimy no need to attack me and telling me stuff about code stealing and that i think that woudl be ok,

 

Oh and about the Cake and eat it, if someone wants the cake but dont like the cherrys on top  of it i dont think the person who made the cake would think its butchered cuase this person remove the cherrys from it.

 

Oh and about users have the right to choose, thats true, and often people must choose cause its impossible somethign work togehter but why you want people must choose if it can easily work togehter?

 

Oh and about the One Value thing, yes i already thought it would disable much more as only the dialogue for crimes until it hits the set amount of bounty. But why some people did or want to do that? Not cause they want to disable this 2000 lines of code , but only cause they did not want to be forced to use only your crime system if it can easily work togehter with other mods.

 

And away from patches or TESEdit Changes, why not offer a way for other mods to hook into your crime system? Something like use it to add other Outcomes from other Mods?

you have currently some outcomes shoudl be possibel that other modders add new outcomes to it if your Crime System allow that, woudl that not be a option without allowing patches from other Modders or dirty TESedit Changes?

 

Let me try to, nicely, give you a piece of advice. You have written any number of posts now and have "dug yourself deeper into a hole." (I hope that translates). So, please, at least for the foreseeable future, just let it go.

 

My colleagues in psychiatry have an expression (and I hope this translates also): doing the same thing, over and over again, and expecting a different outcome, is one definition of insanity.

[crazyduck]

13 minutes ago, Kimy said:

I guess your Google Translator had a hiccup. I didn't use the word "steal" one single time in my posting.

Not sure kimy thats how i understood the part that i

"would think it would be ok if you have modified pop and released it as dd mod."

 

[Last_Light]

 Making things modular is just good practice. I'm not on either side of this argument really, if I don't like something about a mod I'll edit it myself most of the time.  And no ones entitled to publish pieces of your work without your consent... obviously.

 

But the idea that separating a huge mode into pieces is butchering is a pretty odd way to view things.

 

I don't get the complaining though.

 

Cursed Loot has always had questionable design choices. The anti-kid thing that was added that shut down functionality when you had killable kids installed. The fact that half of the mods features were enabled by default. And the fact that it's grown into an increasingly bloated mod with quests that are just varying levels of tedium all bothered me to some extent.

 

But I've never felt the need to blame the mod author for it or publish my changes. I'll just edit what I don't like or not use it. 

 

You can dislike the choices and views and still respect their work.

 

[Kimy]

10 minutes ago, crazyduck said:

Not sure kimy thats how i understood the part that i would think it would be ok if you have modified pop and released it as dd mod.

 

I could have done that with a patch, the same way people that suggest for DCL features they don't like.

[crazyduck]

14 minutes ago, Kimy said:

I could have done that with a patch, the same way people that suggest for DCL features they don't like.

Sure it could be done with a patch but to be honest i see a difference between a Patch to rewrite 90% of a mod or a Patch to disable 1 feature or to add stuff liek compatiblity with other crime mods .

 

But ok Patches are one thing, but kimy i asked you in a previous post , what you think about the idea opening the crime feature for other mods to hook into it and use it to add possible outcomes, this would not need patches or other Workarounds .  Would that not be a possible solution?

[Kimy]

6 minutes ago, crazyduck said:

Sure it could be done with a patch but to be honest i see a difference between a Patch to rewrite 90% of a mod or a Patch to disable 1 feature or to add stuff liek compatiblity with other crime mods .

You see a difference because you want to see one, and try to rationalize your stance. Logically, it's the same thing, though.

Quote

 

But ok kimy asked you in a previous post , what you think about the idea opening the crime feature for other mods to hook into it and use it to add possible outcomes, this would not need patches or other Workarounds .  Would that not be a possible solution?

I am telling you for the umpteenth time now that I am not going to directly or indirectly support POP unless Inte declares it (and DD Equip, because it's sort of required for POP to work in a DD installation) compatible with DD4. I will re-add handover points to DCL the day he does. But I will NOT write integration features for mods that aren't confirmed to be compatible with mine.

[crazyduck]

19 minutes ago, Kimy said:

You see a difference because you want to see one, and try to rationalize your stance. Logically, it's the same thing, though.

I am telling you for the umpteenth time now that I am not going to directly or indirectly support POP unless Inte declares it (and DD Equip, because it's sort of required for POP to work in a DD installation) compatible with DD4. I will re-add handover points to DCL the day he does. But I will NOT write integration features for mods that aren't confirmed to be compatible with mine.

I was not talking about POP as mod, i mean for othert Mods so thats not only POP , simply a way for other Mods if its another cirme Mod or a Mod for something else to use feature of your Crime System . As i said the Reason why you will not support POP until he make it 100% compatible wiht DD 4 i understand already said that some posts ago.  But from such a Option to hook into it would not only possible profit POP but also other Mods coudl use it.

 

But ok i will stop it now, seems Patches will never be allowed, adding a Option for other Mods to hook into yor Crime System or add Options so people can disable parts they dont like so people dont have a reason to search for ways to disable it would be POP support, so i dont think there will be any chance for another outcome cause i dont think you will change your mind and possible think about Options in the MCM to enable or disable parts of the Outcomes or modify the Values for the Bounty valules.

 

 

[DonQuiWho]

4 hours ago, Psalam said:

Lastly (only because I hate putting up a "wall of text") a mod's author has no responsibility to make patches for or to make her mod adapt to other mods. Members of the community may, politely, request patches or changes. My experience is that Kimy has been more open to those than most mod authors and is willing to give an explanation when she says "no" even if it is just "that is not the direction I want to take this mod in." Doing that IS entirely her right (see Rule 1 if you need clarification again).

 

 

And there it is.

 

Ask nicely.  Be grateful for what you do get.  Make interesting suggestions.  Provide positive contributions, for Kimy to choose to use, or choose NOT to use if they don't 'fit' her vision

 

And, all of us, EDIT: PLEASE, write in a fashion, and use decent translating software, that helps us all to avoid sounding like demented Ice Wolves outside Dawnstar

 

?

 

[DonQuiWho]

@Kimy

 

I think I narrowed down my problems with combat rape to the way I have/had follower settings applied in AFT, rather than it being anything in DCL itself.  I'll try and get a better idea just exactly what makes it go squiff, but at first glance it might be something to do with a global setting in AFT that prevents followers having post combat recovery.  There are a few variable combat recovery settings in AFT, wrt both global and individual follower handling.  I thought that I had set these as used in, other, non problematic, prior games but maybe not

 

I've not got a lot of time right now to test all the options, but I'll let you know if I can be absolutely certain exactly what it is that does this so that you can maybe have a 'warning' to post for others in your intro

 

?

[jigwigigx]

On 3/15/2019 at 2:27 AM, Jeyzerr said:

 

FFS people, can we please move on from all this bickering nonsense it's getting as bad as brexit in here. If it weren't for Kimy we'd have nothing and I wouldn't still be playing Skyrim if not for DCL.  It's been 8 years, we all should have moved on by now.

Back to business, I haven't yet managed to escape from my prison cell yet and I would like someone to clarify for me if it is possible and does it depend on the level of difficulty of Crime in MCM? Am currently on an 8 day sentence for shouting in public at kinky/default level and going nowhere.  There is really no point in trying to escape at the lower and easiest levels as you only get 3 days, so that made me wonder if it is only possible at certain higher levels?

 

[GenioMaestro]

1 hour ago, Techpriest said:

What big mods do you have that don't require a new save? Frostfall does, Campfire does, Blackthorn does, Windstead does.

Maybe I lost my ability to read and understand English and my Google translator is broken, but I do not see any lines in the web pages of those mod that say they REQUIRE a new game.
I see it in requiem and I copy it so that you can see it and verify it.

A few things worth mentioning up front: One, Requiem requires a new game - the changes made...
I see it in SkyRe and I copy it so you can see it and see it.

It is also strongly advised to start a new game. Do not attempt to apply this mod to an old char

 

Can you do the same with the mods you mentioned ???
To help you a little I will copy a part of the frostfall website where it says exactly the opposite of what you are saying:

Spoiler

I use Frostfall 2.6 in my existing save game. I want to upgrade to Frostfall 3.

You shouldn’t have to start a new game to install Frostfall 3.x into your existing save game. However, everyone’s game environment is different. If you experience significant issues, a new game may be required. If that happens, uninstall Frostfall 2.6 using your mod manager and follow the instructions for installing Frostfall 3.x fresh, above.

Say very clear: You shouldn’t have to start a new game to install Frostfall 3.x into your existing save game.

But of course say that can give problems and the only solutions for the problems is start a new game.

But NOT require a NEW GAME for upgrade from 2.6 to 3.0

And of course, NOT require a NEW GAME for start playing with the version 3.0

 

1 hour ago, Techpriest said:

You don't seem to understand Skyrim's save game at all. Not the scripts are baked into the save. Their respective variables and values are and keeping them will cause issues later down the line. How impact-full those are? It depends. The range can go from slight script lag to completely broken quests.

It seems that I have a better understanding than you because I do not have any of those problems in my saved games. And I know very well why you have that problem and I know how to fix it.
If you want to explain it to you say it. I do not have any problems but it is quite technical and heavy.

 

1 hour ago, Techpriest said:

As for load order rearranging:

Every mod has a two digit hexadecimal prefix, ranging from 00 to FF (with 00 and 01 reserved for skyrim.esm and update.esm). That's where the 254 mod limit comes from. Each FormId inside the game consists of the prefix and a 6 digit hexadecimal id. Any used id is baked into the savegame when the object is spawned. It's later used to reference the object. Changing the load order and thus the prefix will therefore cause issues.

It seems that you do not know how the loading order works in the game because the game has no problem for change the load order in the middle of the game. You and your manager are really doing it without notice it, but they do it.
If changing the load order in the middle of the game is a problem, the game should not allow it and the evident fact is that it allows it and it does not show any warning. It must be because it's not a problem.
Once again I can give you all the technical explanations you want about it because change the load order does not affect the savegame in any way.

 

1 hour ago, Techpriest said:

A general rule of thumb for Skyrim (be it LE or SE):

a) if you install new mods mid game, do it only at the end of the load order

b) never rearrange the load order or remove mods from it

c) Don't upgrade mods that have an esp (and therefore add stuff to the game), texture and model replacers are fine to upgrade.

It seems that you are copying words from other people and I have to tell you that they are FALSE.
All these rules do not have any technical support and do not appear in any of the web pages that support the game such as: step, gems, UESP, wiki, CK.
If you find any, please copy and paste.

 

Use your head a little, please. Your manager does not present any alert window when installing or uninstalling a mod. LOOT either. And the game either.
If the manger, the utilities and the game do not alert of any problem it will be because REALLY there is no problem.

 

1 hour ago, Techpriest said:

Yup I can. I wanted to test if DCUR worked with an old save and every time I got to prison the game crashed. Lesser crimes (e.g. walk of shame) worked fine as did every crime after i disabled the prison.

So stop questioning everything like a 13 year old edge-lord and trust the people who know what they are doing.

This is a little strange. Why I can and you can not. There has to be an explanation and the only thing that occurs to me is that we have done different things. Maybe, if you do what I do, you can do it just like me.
Want you to test ??? I have no problem explaining the steps one by one. And I also have no problem investigating a problem in your game if you collaborate.

[Tenri]

3 minutes ago, GenioMaestro said:

 

  Reveal hidden contents

I use Frostfall 2.6 in my existing save game. I want to upgrade to Frostfall 3.

You shouldn’t have to start a new game to install Frostfall 3.x into your existing save game. However, everyone’s game environment is different. If you experience significant issues, a new game may be required. If that happens, uninstall Frostfall 2.6 using your mod manager and follow the instructions for installing Frostfall 3.x fresh, above.

Use your head a little, please. Your manager does not present any alert window when installing or uninstalling a mod. LOOT either. And the game either.
If the manger, the utilities and the game do not alert of any problem it will be because REALLY there is no problem.

The game actually does complain if you uninstall a mod it will tell you that the save relies on content that is no longer available and that could cause problems.

[GenioMaestro]

1 minute ago, Tenri said:

The game actually does complain if you uninstall a mod it will tell you that the save relies on content that is no longer available and that could cause problems.

Yes, of course, that is totally true and all players know it.

 

But think a bit.

You see a similar alert when you ADD a mod???    NO

You see a similar alert when your order your pluging list with LOOT???    NO

 

Then, make that things must not be a problem for the game. 

[Kimy]

9 minutes ago, GenioMaestro said:

Maybe I lost my ability to read and understand English and my Google translator is broken, but I do not see any lines in the web pages of those mod that say they REQUIRE a new game.
I see it in requiem and I copy it so that you can see it and verify it.

A few things worth mentioning up front: One, Requiem requires a new game - the changes made...
I see it in SkyRe and I copy it so you can see it and see it.

It is also strongly advised to start a new game. Do not attempt to apply this mod to an old char

 

Can you do the same with the mods you mentioned ???
To help you a little I will copy a part of the frostfall website where it says exactly the opposite of what you are saying:

  Reveal hidden contents

I use Frostfall 2.6 in my existing save game. I want to upgrade to Frostfall 3.

You shouldn’t have to start a new game to install Frostfall 3.x into your existing save game. However, everyone’s game environment is different. If you experience significant issues, a new game may be required. If that happens, uninstall Frostfall 2.6 using your mod manager and follow the instructions for installing Frostfall 3.x fresh, above.

Say very clear: You shouldn’t have to start a new game to install Frostfall 3.x into your existing save game.

But of course say that can give problems and the only solutions for the problems is start a new game.

But NOT require a NEW GAME for upgrade from 2.6 to 3.0

And of course, NOT require a NEW GAME for start playing with the version 3.0

 

It seems that I have a better understanding than you because I do not have any of those problems in my saved games. And I know very well why you have that problem and I know how to fix it.
If you want to explain it to you say it. I do not have any problems but it is quite technical and heavy.

 

It seems that you do not know how the loading order works in the game because the game has no problem for change the load order in the middle of the game. You and your manager are really doing it without notice it, but they do it.
If changing the load order in the middle of the game is a problem, the game should not allow it and the evident fact is that it allows it and it does not show any warning. It must be because it's not a problem.
Once again I can give you all the technical explanations you want about it because change the load order does not affect the savegame in any way.

 

It seems that you are copying words from other people and I have to tell you that they are FALSE.
All these rules do not have any technical support and do not appear in any of the web pages that support the game such as: step, gems, UESP, wiki, CK.
If you find any, please copy and paste.

 

Use your head a little, please. Your manager does not present any alert window when installing or uninstalling a mod. LOOT either. And the game either.
If the manger, the utilities and the game do not alert of any problem it will be because REALLY there is no problem.

 

This is a little strange. Why I can and you can not. There has to be an explanation and the only thing that occurs to me is that we have done different things. Maybe, if you do what I do, you can do it just like me.
Want you to test ??? I have no problem explaining the steps one by one. And I also have no problem investigating a problem in your game if you collaborate.

You know...if you're 100% convinced that my advice to use a new game with the newest DCL version is just a conspiracy on my part to delete as many Skyrim savegames from people's hard drives as I possibly can...

 

...why don't you just install it over your old games and see if it makes you happy? There is really no need to write novel-length essays about it. Follow my advice, or don't! I quite honestly don't care.