framework Advanced Animation Framework

[davisev5225]

7 hours ago, dagobaking said:

Then you are apologizing for something I never took issue with while ignoring the issues I did raise.

 

There would have been no issues to raise had we not argued.  I went straight to the core of the problem.

 

  

7 hours ago, dagobaking said:

What the? Am I your child? On what basis do you think you are in a position to encourage me about how to form my own arguments?

 

I'm in the position of being another person with which you are conversing.  That is enough.  And no, I'm not treating you like a child.  The fact that you seem to think I am is just astounding.

 

  

7 hours ago, dagobaking said:

Yes. I am a normal human being and reacted in a predictable way to your patronizing.

 

You did not react in a predictable way.  I've only been patronizing once in our arguments, and it wasn't the post with my apology.  Predictable would be to say "thank you", or to not acknowledge it, not to turn it into yet another personal attack.

 

  

7 hours ago, dagobaking said:

The more you write the more evidence you give that my instincts were right about you from post #1. Blind arrogance.

 

How am I supposed to have a sane conversation with someone who thinks that it's normal to talk down to me?

 

You can't have a sane conversation if you're not willing to treat the other party/parties with some decency.  From my first post, you've done nothing but display open hostility and contempt for me, and you're deflecting that by calling me arrogant.  I could point out details where it's you, not me, that displayed arrogance, but I already know it would be lost on you.

 

  

7 hours ago, dagobaking said:

Not true. I was actually a lot more irritated by your condescension than my comment revealed. I did hold back from what I really thought and wanted to write something positive because maybe you are so oblivious to your perception issues that this was the best you could do. But, I wasn't going to make myself a liar over it.

 

You wouldn't have been a liar if you had just written "I appreciate your apology".  If you truly think it was incomplete or insufficient, you would have still demonstrated appreciation for the gesture, which is not a lie (assuming you did appreciate "the attempt" as you perceive it).  Instead, you tried (once again) to have the last word and tried to put yourself into a position to make it look like you have the moral high ground.

[ravynwolvf]

Does anyone have an AAF_equipmentsetdata.xml file they could link that simply removes all clothing from both sexes? That includes additions like the Creation Backpack? Or that you could copy and paste the text? Had it working perfectly, did a clean re-install and can't get it right for some reason. Thanks super much.

Edited August 13, 2021 by ravynwolvf
Left something out

[dosfox]

Under what circumstances should one consider changing the "max_array_size" setting in AAF_settings.ini?

 

What are the symptoms of "max_array_size" being too small?

 

What is the recommended increment for increasing max_array_size?

 

What would be the possible instabilities caused by making max_array_size too large?

 

Are changes to max_array_size reversible after being increased?

 

Thank you.

 

[vaultbait]

3 hours ago, ravynwolvf said:

Does anyone have an AAF_equipmentsetdata.xml file they could link that simply removes all clothing from both sexes? That includes additions like the Creation Backpack? Or that you could copy and paste the text? Had it working perfectly, did a clean re-install and can't get it right for some reason. Thanks super much.

 

You can find it in the AAF archive. Look at the 40 Undressing Max Compat\AAF\AAF_equipmentSetData.xml file therein and add/remove entries as desired. See the comment block in that file for a link to the slot name mapping.

[Mistress Jade]

5 hours ago, davisev5225 said:

 

There would have been no issues to raise had we not argued.  I went straight to the core of the problem.

 

  

 

I'm in the position of being another person with which you are conversing.  That is enough.  And no, I'm not treating you like a child.  The fact that you seem to think I am is just astounding.

 

  

 

You did not react in a predictable way.  I've only been patronizing once in our arguments, and it wasn't the post with my apology.  Predictable would be to say "thank you", or to not acknowledge it, not to turn it into yet another personal attack.

 

  

 

You can't have a sane conversation if you're not willing to treat the other party/parties with some decency.  From my first post, you've done nothing but display open hostility and contempt for me, and you're deflecting that by calling me arrogant.  I could point out details where it's you, not me, that displayed arrogance, but I already know it would be lost on you.

 

  

 

You wouldn't have been a liar if you had just written "I appreciate your apology".  If you truly think it was incomplete or insufficient, you would have still demonstrated appreciation for the gesture, which is not a lie (assuming you did appreciate "the attempt" as you perceive it).  Instead, you tried (once again) to have the last word and tried to put yourself into a position to make it look like you have the moral high ground.

Good god man, your in the wrong, and have been from the start, that's why your being told your arrogant. now go and put your nose in the corner till you grow up and can talk nice to others.

[RitualClarity]

46 minutes ago, Mistress Jade said:

Good god man, your in the wrong, and have been from the start, that's why your being told your arrogant. now go and put your nose in the corner till you grow up and can talk nice to others.

Good god is right... he is still chiming on about it? Wow.  I left as I said what I needed to say on the original issue and was done. 

 

I have had many conversations with @dagobaking and not all of them I agreed with. Some we had very different ideas and concepts but at no time did I ever feel he belittled me or my thoughts and beliefs.  Also on the other hand, at no time did I ever feel that I needed to take pages and pages and dozens of post to get my idea across or even defend my thoughts and/or concepts.

 

I feel bad for @dagobaking for getting caught up in that BS... I would suggest that he does what I did many post ago when I realized the type of person that is posting and it wasn't worth my time and in the end I'd end up wasting hours and hours in a classic case of circle jerk.  If necessary even blocking him. 

 

@dagobakingyes you were correct with your first thoughts on him.  I had the same thoughts and that is the reason I moved on after saying my fill.

[Slorm]

I agree very much with both @Mistress Jade and @RitualClarity

 

Give it a rest and stop using a personal vendetta to derail the thread

Edited August 13, 2021 by Slorm

[CGi]

6 hours ago, dosfox said:

Under what circumstances should one consider changing the "max_array_size" setting in AAF_settings.ini?

What are the symptoms of "max_array_size" being too small?

What is the recommended increment for increasing max_array_size?

What would be the possible instabilities caused by making max_array_size too large?

Are changes to max_array_size reversible after being increased?

Thank you.

Under normal circumstances there's no ned to touch this value at all.
Why do you think you need to change it?

As for this whole discussion between dago and davisev:
Can we please put this to rest now? You two walk in circles, getting nowhere.

Edited August 13, 2021 by CGi

[ravynwolvf]

3 hours ago, vaultbait said:

 

You can find it in the AAF archive. Look at the 40 Undressing Max Compat\AAF\AAF_equipmentSetData.xml file therein and add/remove entries as desired. See the comment block in that file for a link to the slot name mapping.

Wow. THAT'S where I got the xml I was trying to use, but I evidently grabbed the wrong one out of the wrong folder (totally forgot there was more than one option in the install files). Hours looking for one and it was already right on my own computer. That and I'm not even sure if I was editing the correct one now, since I just also figured out there's another in the aaf ultimate patch folder and not sure which one is in charge (just replaced them both, and it works perfectly now). Thanks for the memory jog.

Edited August 13, 2021 by ravynwolvf
fix

[dagobaking]

10 hours ago, dosfox said:

Under what circumstances should one consider changing the "max_array_size" setting in AAF_settings.ini?

 

You might consider changing it if you believe your game build could result in creating arrays larger than 2000 in size. But, it is unknown if large arrays can cause issues or not. So, it would probably be a better solution to find ways to keep the array sizes down.

 

10 hours ago, dosfox said:

What are the symptoms of "max_array_size" being too small?

 

If arrays attempt to exceed the max size it should generate Papyrus errors in the Papyrus log related to Arrays.

 

10 hours ago, dosfox said:

What is the recommended increment for increasing max_array_size?

 

0

 

The option is there in case you want to try. But, it's not ideal.

 

10 hours ago, dosfox said:

What would be the possible instabilities caused by making max_array_size too large?

 

It's not really known. But, most likely imo is CTD.

 

10 hours ago, dosfox said:

Are changes to max_array_size reversible after being increased?

 

Good question. I would think they are reversible in a new save game. But, it might irreversibly affect a specific save file. @EgoBallistic may be able to provide better insight into that?

 

[EgoBallistic]

25 minutes ago, dagobaking said:

Under what circumstances should one consider changing the "max_array_size" setting in AAF_settings.ini?

 

Most likely none.  The default size is 128, and the vanilla game runs fine with that.  2000 is a nice safe amount for all the storage AAF needs.  The next most likely consumer of large arrays would be the workshop/settlement system, but you would have to have absolutely huge settlements with tons of vendors for that to become an issue.

 

27 minutes ago, dagobaking said:

Good question. I would think they are reversible in a new save game. But, it might irreversibly affect a specific save file. @EgoBallistic may be able to provide better insight into that?

 

The arrays get serialized into the save and restored at load time.  So if you were to reduce the size below what is already being used, it would cause the game to lose data when you load your save, and would likely have ugly consequences.  If it involves settlement data it would probably break the save.  I wouldn't recommend it.   But, chances are you aren't using anything close to the 2000 size specified by AAF.

 

Keep in mind that the game won't just start using larger arrays simply because they are available.  The game was written with a 128 element array size and it will keep behaving as though it only has 128 elements.  The only way it will use more is if you use mods like AAF that can make use of it.

[dagobaking]

It was a while back when I last worked on this part of the code. But, I believe I removed arrays that sent out the entire list of animations/positions. That way the animation limit wouldn't be affected by the array size (and I don't think anyone was using that data anyway).

 

The only way I could see the array limit being hit is if someone made a furniture or actor reference that then led to an AAF scan picking up over 2000 hits of that furniture or actor within the scan radius.

 

That would seem difficult to do. Maybe if a blade of grass was used as furniture and you were in a field. Even with frequent objects... I think its rare if ever over 2000 objects in an area.

Edited August 14, 2021 by dagobaking

[LostDremoraDream]

@dagobaking

I'm here from an elsewhere thread.

I've been on a small hiatus in regards to fallout 4 modding and came back at a good or bad time depending on the stance, lol.

That being said, are you hosting updates to AAF here still? I didn't see a current link, and nexus has a version from january I believe. Where is the best place to look for consistent updates?

[dagobaking]

7 minutes ago, LostDremoraDream said:

That being said, are you hosting updates to AAF here still? I didn't see a current link, and nexus has a version from january I believe. Where is the best place to look for consistent updates?

 

For quite a while back I hosted at Nexus and just had a link to Nexus in the mod post here.

 

I plan on continuing the same but instead of posting updates to Nexus they will be here: https://www.moddingham.com/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=2

[dosfox]

@dagobaking, @EgoBallistic,

 

Thank you both for your very informative and helpful replies.

 

I do have "absolutely huge settlements with tons of vendors" (3000-6000 building objects, 30-60 settlers, 20-30 vendor-type assignments, etc) but the only scripted NPC mods i use are SKK Combat Settlers (set for "cowardly"), MoreActiveAI (set for 100 NPCs), and Autonomy Enhanced. Since installing Buffout4 overall settlement performance has been great.

 

A few playthroughs ago i did try max_array_size=2500, but it made no apparent improvement on the performance of RSEE_Shenanigans_v.4 or the rest of the game.

 

2 hours ago, dagobaking said:

It was a while back when I last worked on this part of the code. But, I believe I removed arrays that sent out the entire list of animations/positions. That way the animation limit wouldn't be affected by the array size (and I don't think anyone was using that data anyway).

 

So i am beginning to wonder, is it possible that Autonomy relies on those deleted arrays in some way? @Invictusblade mentioned he wasn't sure what is in the original code for Autonomy, and some of the errors i am experiencing do appear like they may be caused by missing animation/position information, and did become more frequent after one particular AAF update.

 

Sorry to bother you with discussion of other mods, but your advice has been very useful in narrowing down the cause of my bugs. Thank you again for your help.

 

 

[dagobaking]

1 hour ago, dosfox said:

Thank you both for your very informative and helpful replies.

 

I do have "absolutely huge settlements with tons of vendors" (3000-6000 building objects, 30-60 settlers, 20-30 vendor-type assignments, etc) but the only scripted NPC mods i use are SKK Combat Settlers (set for "cowardly"), MoreActiveAI (set for 100 NPCs), and Autonomy Enhanced. Since installing Buffout4 overall settlement performance has been great.

 

That number of objects might impact the game in other ways. But, it shouldn't impact it through AAF unless you somehow have animations configured for over half of every object in the entire settlement.

 

1 hour ago, dosfox said:

 

So i am beginning to wonder, is it possible that Autonomy relies on those deleted arrays in some way? @Invictusblade mentioned he wasn't sure what is in the original code for Autonomy, and some of the errors i am experiencing do appear like they may be caused by missing animation/position information, and did become more frequent after one particular AAF update.

 

I don't think so. I think that I had a function that included a list of all animations at one point. But, it was removed early on because then it would only allow 128 animations total. So, there would have been very limited opportunity for other authors to use that.

[mangybastard]

I did a search and it looks like this hasn't been asked in a while.

 

There is now a body mod for FO4VR

 

https://www.nexusmods.com/fallout4/mods/53464?tab=posts

 

Early stages, but I'm wondering if and when a VR version of your mod might be possible using FRIK. I'm sure that's a *lot* of work that you might not have time for right now but I'm looking forward to playing FO4VR once I'm done with SkyrimVR and I'd love to have AAF as a part of the load order.

 

Thanks for all the work you've done so far! I became a Patreon supporter but that's not meant to pressure you, I plan on using your mod soon even if it's in flat screen so no worries if your priorities lie elswyer.

[dagobaking]

17 hours ago, mangybastard said:

I did a search and it looks like this hasn't been asked in a while.

 

There is now a body mod for FO4VR

 

https://www.nexusmods.com/fallout4/mods/53464?tab=posts

 

Early stages, but I'm wondering if and when a VR version of your mod might be possible using FRIK. I'm sure that's a *lot* of work that you might not have time for right now but I'm looking forward to playing FO4VR once I'm done with SkyrimVR and I'd love to have AAF as a part of the load order.

 

Thanks for all the work you've done so far! I became a Patreon supporter but that's not meant to pressure you, I plan on using your mod soon even if it's in flat screen so no worries if your priorities lie elswyer.

 

Thank you. Interesting question. I haven't tried out Skyrim or Fallout VR yet.

 

AAF is already designed to run animations on whatever actors are sent to it. So, it shouldn't be too far off provided that this new body in the mod is able to be referenced like any other actor. I would probably need to make some adjustments so that it is recognized as the player body and not an NPC. But, shouldn't require too much work.

 

The bigger challenge is more just having everything set up to test it. I do have VR available. But, it's been collecting dust unused for a while...

[mangybastard]

10 hours ago, dagobaking said:

 

Thank you. Interesting question. I haven't tried out Skyrim or Fallout VR yet.

 

AAF is already designed to run animations on whatever actors are sent to it. So, it shouldn't be too far off provided that this new body in the mod is able to be referenced like any other actor. I would probably need to make some adjustments so that it is recognized as the player body and not an NPC. But, shouldn't require too much work.

 

The bigger challenge is more just having everything set up to test it. I do have VR available. But, it's been collecting dust unused for a while...

 

That's exciting news! I would be happy to gift you a copy of FO4VR if that would help as it's currently on sale for 14.99. Reading past posts it looks like @prinyo is also interested in this. I don't want to speak for someone I don't know but figured I'd call them out in case they are set up and willing to help test if needed. I also would be willing to do some testing, though my knowledge of modding is limited.

[prinyo]

Several months ago I tried to get the AAF and some other mods DLLs recompiled against the VR script extender but only got non-answers that "it would probably not work anyway". This to make AAF work with FO4VR at all, not upgrading for specific VR compatibility.

Maybe  at some point I can try the new body with 4Play - it does have the alignment issues. but maybe with the body mod there will be workarounds.

 

[CGi]

4 hours ago, prinyo said:

Several months ago I tried to get the AAF and some other mods DLLs recompiled against the VR script extender but only got non-answers that "it would probably not work anyway". This to make AAF work with FO4VR at all, not upgrading for specific VR compatibility.

Maybe  at some point I can try the new body with 4Play - it does have the alignment issues. but maybe with the body mod there will be workarounds.

it does work with FO4VR just not the way you expect it to as AAF animates a clone of the players character for increased reliability, so you'll never be able to watch scenes from a 1st person perspective.

 

There'll be a few glitches too as LM for FO4VR is not always updated alongside the non-VR version.

Edited August 16, 2021 by CGi

[mangybastard]

3 hours ago, CGi said:

it does work with FO4VR just not the way you expect it to as AAF animates a clone of the players character for increased reliability, so you'll never be able to watch scenes from a 1st person perspective.

 

There'll be a few glitches too as LM for FO4VR is not always updated alongside the non-VR version.

TFC works well enough in SkyrimVR to insert yourself into a scene. Not always ideal and far from necessary for Skyrim but it's better than nothing if you really need that first-person perspective.

[CGi]

25 minutes ago, mangybastard said:

TFC works well enough in SkyrimVR to insert yourself into a scene. Not always ideal and far from necessary for Skyrim but it's better than nothing if you really need that first-person perspective.

Positioning the camera was always possible in non-VR.
Doing this in VR via automated means is just not possible (yet) due to missing functionality.

[dagobaking]

12 hours ago, prinyo said:

Several months ago I tried to get the AAF and some other mods DLLs recompiled against the VR script extender but only got non-answers that "it would probably not work anyway". This to make AAF work with FO4VR at all, not upgrading for specific VR compatibility.

Maybe  at some point I can try the new body with 4Play - it does have the alignment issues. but maybe with the body mod there will be workarounds.

 

 

I vaguely remember this. I think the issue is that AAF uses functions in LLFP which may not be available in FO4VR.

 

If that is the case, yeah, it wouldn't really work. For example, how would "free cam" work while in VR? Maybe it does...? I have never tried it to see what is possible.

[KGBinx]

If I were to post my mod list could someone help me figure out how to stop this from happening