framework Advanced Animation Framework

[kziitd]

42 minutes ago, Saya Scarlett said:

 

And it honestly fucking boggles my mind how people can claim that SexLab is 'easier'.

Sexlab is easier for people who don't know anything than AAF because it has a MCM menu. You can click with the mouse to establish the main configuration and customization, while AAF is an XML editor outside the game. No matter whether you play the game or not, the "setting interface" exists in the field of electronic products, and people will naturally be more used to it.

Of course, the problems and conflicts of AAF patch are also caused by this, different "configurations" conflict, AAF stops, and now go to learn and recognize XML.

Edited August 6, 2021 by kziitd

[CGi]

5 minutes ago, kziitd said:

Sexlab is easier for people who don't know anything than AAF because it has a MCM menu. You can click with the mouse to establish the main configuration and customization, while AAF is an XML editor outside the game. No matter whether you play the game or not, the "setting interface" exists in the field of electronic products, and people will naturally be more used to it.

The XML situation is indeed messy but AAF doesn't require an MCM as it has it's own custom Ui with all you need.
The phylosophy of AAF follows the principle that a well defined standard requires no input by the user settings-wise, so those are external and in an iNi file.
Overall AAF does not try to be SL or OSEX but draws inspiration from both to be a more general purpose framework, with it's NSFW side being a natural part of its concept.
it can do poses too, you know?

P.s.: And like SL it has so much more features no one tapped into yet.

Edited August 6, 2021 by CGi

[kziitd]

31 minutes ago, CGi said:

The XML situation is indeed messy but AAF doesn't require an MCM as it has it's own custom Ui with all you need.
The phylosophy of AAF follows the principle that a well defined standard requires no input by the user settings-wise, so those are external and in an iNi file.
Overall AAF does not try to be SL or OSEX but draws inspiration from both to be a more general purpose framework, with it's NSFW side being a natural part of its concept.
it can do poses too, you know?

P.s.: And like SL it has so much more features no one tapped into yet.

Everything in the setting.ini file of AAF will be understood.

But the goal of the this settings inside is "animation runtime settings",

Whether the animation runs or not requires different XML files to combine "definitions".

If looksmenu just puts the body or head of the character in the game and wants to change the appearance, you have to edit presets.json, it will be wonderful.

Well, I've basically figured out about XML anyway, but it's still a little messy

Whether others learn or not is up to them.

[maddadicusrex]

1 hour ago, DoctaSax said:

I thought this was the general support topic for the AAF mod.

Let's keep it about that.

 

Maybe everyone involved with the off topic should remove our posts. No need to scare the newbies off with all the big words that were used..

[CGi]

1 hour ago, kziitd said:

Everything in the setting.ini file of AAF will be understood.

But the goal of the this settings inside is "animation runtime settings",

Whether the animation runs or not requires different XML files to combine "definitions".

If looksmenu just puts the body or head of the character in the game and wants to change the appearance, you have to edit presets.json, it will be wonderful.

Well, I've basically figured out about XML anyway, but it's still a little messy

Whether others learn or not is up to them.

Runtime has to be determined by the animator or mod author that uses the animation.
i guess you can see the reason for this yourself.

[kziitd]

3 hours ago, CGi said:

Runtime has to be determined by the animator or mod author that uses the animation.
i guess you can see the reason for this yourself.

Sorry, you don't understand what I mean by the English translation of "runtime".

What I want to say is that the content of setting.ini is only adjusted after "everything is ok"

Because few people are proficient in XML editing to define how animation plays or modifies problems, patches were born.

Savage cabbage one of the currently active authors, claims that the problems caused by the patch have nothing to do with his own animation.

So the author loses the control between AAF and his works here.

 

Edited August 6, 2021 by kziitd

[mircislav]

It would be less stressful for mod mod authors and mod users if mod authors have the ability to delete the post containing idiotic rumblings that have nothing with real mod help request (or just to remove the post they -mod author- do not like for whatever reason). If you don't like some mod (for whatever reason), solution is simple, DO NOT use it and DO NOT shit all over someones tread. Leave the space for someone that actually need help with some part of the mod they use. And also, there are Discord channels for various mods where users can ask for help on specific matter. As Saya wrote earlier, reading is still rather useful ability that has been given to humans together with eyesight... not to mention that the thing residing behind the eyes is also very useful if used in proper way. 

This is just as suggestion, sorry if someone find it offensive for whatever reason.

And please, have a prosperous sex life.

[CGi]

1 hour ago, kziitd said:

Sorry, you don't understand what I mean by the English translation of "runtime".

What I want to say is that the content of setting.ini is only adjusted after "everything is ok"

Because few people are proficient in XML editing to define how animation plays or modifies problems, patches were born.

Savage cabbage one of the currently active authors, claims that the problems caused by the patch have nothing to do with his own animation.

So the author loses the control between AAF and his works here.

Yep, the XML situation is messy, as i already said, but doesn't really need the user to edit anything, aside from specific preferences that aren't covered yet, to use the animations.

[EgoBallistic]

7 hours ago, CGi said:

This is literally like people joining someones stream to tell them they don't like the stream. Then why watch it this long in the first place instead of choosing a different stream?

 

"The food here is terrible and the portions are too small!"

[kziitd]

5 hours ago, CGi said:

Yep, the XML situation is messy, as i already said, but doesn't really need the user to edit anything, aside from specific preferences that aren't covered yet, to use the animations.

I still don't understand the relationship between AAF and animators.

AAF is Walkman, the author's work is CD, XML is AAF's gear or CD's song list?

Anyway, XML is now a dynamic editable part, so I think it's part of the author's work.

So where did the patch come from? Third party? Why do they feel that they have permission to modify how other people's work is played.

In theory, if an author thinks there is no problem with the correct play of the work and releases it, what does the patch maker think is the problem? Almost 99% of the AAF problems I saw after switching from skrim to Fo4 were caused by patches.

Does the author of the patch think his work is a supplement to the CD or a repair that Walkman can run?

Maybe the patch comes from a historical problem.

I'm now preparing for animation, but I don't know whether the patch will affect my relationship with users

If others have special requirements for animation, is it the best and non chaotic way to ask the author to add?

Now only indarello is the active author of the patch. If I don't understand the special requirements of the player, I'll ask him how to edit XML. Or I'll add his patch to the main post of the animation and praise it publicly.

Is this OK?

Or I just put the HKX file out, and how others use it is no longer related to me?

Edited August 6, 2021 by kziitd

[ebbluminous]

I like the layout of green Moddingham. It reminds me of a PIP-Boy and so is a better theme than some fance super shiny site...

[EgoBallistic]

2 hours ago, kziitd said:

I still don't understand the relationship between AAF and animators.

AAF is Walkman, the author's work is CD, XML is AAF's gear or CD's song list?

Anyway, XML is now a dynamic editable part, so I think it's part of the author's work.

So where did the patch come from? Third party? Why do they feel that they have permission to modify how other people's work is played.

In theory, if an author thinks there is no problem with the correct play of the work and releases it, what does the patch maker think is the problem? Almost 99% of the AAF problems I saw after switching from skrim to Fo4 were caused by patches.

Does the author of the patch think his work is a supplement to the CD or a repair that Walkman can run?

Maybe the patch comes from a historical problem.

I'm now preparing for animation, but I don't know whether the patch will affect my relationship with users

If others have special requirements for animation, is it the best and non chaotic way to ask the author to add?

Now only indarello is the active author of the patch. If I don't understand the special requirements of the player, I'll ask him how to edit XML. Or I'll add his patch to the main post of the animation and praise it publicly.

Is this OK?

Or I just put the HKX file out, and how others use it is no longer related to me?

 

The first patches were to make animations that were not created for AAF compatible with it, mainly Crazy and Leito's animation packs.

 

Later patches are not necessary but add things users want: add M/M and F/F versions of M/F animations, add sounds, add cum overlays, etc.

 

The only patch mod I use is the one for Crazy's animations.  I made my own patches for other animations that I felt needed it: sounds, overlays, etc.

 

I think animation packs should at least include basic XML to allow the animations to play in AAF with no other XML required.  After that, users or patch mods can add what they like.

[Mistress Jade]

19 hours ago, KatieLlymlaen said:

Honestly, this entire thread has killed my desire to play Fallout 4 at all at this point, so kudos there my guy.

No its on you, you have ruined it for yourself.

[RitualClarity]

9 hours ago, EgoBallistic said:

 

"The food here is terrible and the portions are too small!"

And the cake is dry...

 

44 minutes ago, Mistress Jade said:

No its on you, you have ruined it for yourself.

Exactly, couldn't say it better.

[dagobaking]

15 hours ago, DoctaSax said:

I thought this was the general support topic for the AAF mod.

Let's keep it about that.

 

I agree that the above dispute ran out of new ground.

 

My preference would be for users to use the AAF support section to make per support request threads so that they're easier to find by others with the same issues. Then this thread could be just for general AAF convo: feature ideas, animation philosophies, update announcements and indeed general complaints.

 

15 hours ago, kziitd said:

Sexlab is easier for people who don't know anything than AAF because it has a MCM menu.

 

I did make an API so that an MCM for AAF could be made as an add-on mod by someone else. I was surprised that nobody took it up as it seems like it would be a pretty easy one to make. It could also include many "safety" checks to tell users if/when they install incompatible mods, etc.

 

15 hours ago, kziitd said:

Everything in the setting.ini file of AAF will be understood.

But the goal of the this settings inside is "animation runtime settings",

Whether the animation runs or not requires different XML files to combine "definitions".

If looksmenu just puts the body or head of the character in the game and wants to change the appearance, you have to edit presets.json, it will be wonderful.

Well, I've basically figured out about XML anyway, but it's still a little messy

Whether others learn or not is up to them.

 

This is a fair point.

 

The settings ini and the XML are two similar but different mechanics. As noted by CG, I chose to use an ini for mod settings instead of an MCM for a few reasons:

 

A) ini files are persistent out of the box. In other words, once you set your game up the way you like once you dont have to re-do the settings on your next playthrough or restart.

 

B) There is nothing visually responsive about most of these types of settings. So, from a design perspective it's just adding needless clutter to in-game menus when a text file gives the same ability just as well.

 

C) Using ini files allows for some helpful functions for mod authors. Specifically, they can make their own ini files that enforce specific settings that their mod might need.

 

The XML is not really the same category as the ini settings as it is configuration tied to content. The flexibility of the XML is such that it would be very difficult to make an in-game tool/GUI that allows everything the XML can do. It likely would not be possible given restraints on Flash within the game. SexLab handles a lot of this kind of animation management within the GUI which is easier for a lot of users. But, it's applying configuration within a more focused set of rules. So, it's able to limit how crazy the interface has to be. I agree that is a good design decision toward ease of use.

 

I chose a more open ended model because I prefer that the community decide how they want to apply content in mods and I would like something that can be repurposed in new ways in the future even if I for any reason become unavailable. I did decide for those goals at the risk of making AAF a bit more difficult to use.

 

That said, some difficulty has been accidental and not from a decision. This was my vision for how the XML would be used:

 

I imagined the XML always being packaged with its associated content. In other words, I didn't imagine there would be any patches at all. I thought animators would maintain animation and position XML. Creators of overlays would manage overlay content plus the XML needed. Custom races would include the race XML. Etc.

 

I had a basis for thinking it would work that way: Wickedwhims. In fact, Wickedwhims also uses XML for each animation pack and each animator makes their own and maintains it.

 

But, once the system was public it didn't get used as I expected:

 

In a way, some problems happened because the XML approach worked better than expected in the sense that many users were able to easily figure out how it worked and made their own changes. Then, they started making independent patches to change x, y and z. I didn't really have a critical reaction to this because I was just happy to see that the system was approachable and easy for modders to understand and use.

 

Also, some content authors were not consistently interested in dealing with the XML or adding any hooks to connect to overlay systems, etc. So, there was pressure for others to step in and make the XML updates for them. In some cases, animators were just no longer around at all and XML updates were still needed.

 

So, those two things were unexpected and created some growing pains for the project.

 

A lot of additional work has been done to AAF to catch misconfiguration and give meaningful error reports. And also I think the community has adapted and streamlined guides and XML options. So, it has improved. But, it does remain a pitfall for new users who just install a bunch of things expecting to sort it out later in an MCM panel.

 

10 hours ago, mircislav said:

It would be less stressful for mod mod authors and mod users if mod authors have the ability to delete the post containing idiotic rumblings that have nothing with real mod help request (or just to remove the post they -mod author- do not like for whatever reason).

 

I think this is a really great idea. We discussed something similar for moddingham where each mod author would basically have their own moderated area on a site. The main obstacle is just that forum software doesn't accommodate that out of the box. So, it would need to be custom implemented at some development cost. Maybe some day in the future?

 

3 hours ago, ebbluminous said:

I like the layout of green Moddingham. It reminds me of a PIP-Boy and so is a better theme than some fance super shiny site...

 

I like that theme too! But, there were others who hated it. So, we set the default to a more "discord-like" theme. You actually can switch back to the green theme (its called "1978") in your User Control Panel > Board Settings.

[blue35e]

On 8/5/2021 at 3:41 PM, dagobaking said:

 

 

I feel that I've been clear about the motivations behind the change. Please let me know what else you think might be going on?

 

 

 I think you misunderstand the statement. It is not that I think something going on but it is a red flag. What I see as a warning sign, A DL that leads to a sight requiring giving up log in information to a unknown sight.  In general that is warning sign or cause for suspicion. Add the unprofessional appearance of the web sight it comes a crossed as a scam sight trying to collect PII and common passwords. In short I do not trust the sight or you with my information. That is not an statement that you are doing something wrong, but a lack of trust.

[maddadicusrex]

1 hour ago, blue35e said:

 I think you misunderstand the statement. It is not that I think something going on but it is a red flag. What I see as a warning sign, A DL that leads to a sight requiring giving up log in information to a unknown sight.  In general that is warning sign or cause for suspicion. Add the unprofessional appearance of the web sight it comes a crossed as a scam sight trying to collect PII and common passwords. In short I do not trust the sight or you with my information. That is not an statement that you are doing something wrong, but a lack of trust.

Then you will have to do without certain mods because those authors who have chosen to leave Nexus are all going to have their stuff on sites just like Moddingham. Dago is as honest a internet stranger that I know and you can bank on his vetting this newer site before his going there. 

[vaultbait]

17 hours ago, dagobaking said:

Using ini files allows for some helpful functions for mod authors. Specifically, they can make their own ini files that enforce specific settings that their mod might need.

 

This feature is useful to more than just mod authors. I take advantage of it to keep my personal preference overrides separate from the default settings, so that when I upgrade or reinstall AAF I don't need to remember to re-edit the main config.

[Slorm]

14 minutes ago, vaultbait said:

 

This feature is useful to more than just mod authors. I take advantage of it to keep my personal preference overrides separate from the default settings, so that when I upgrade or reinstall AAF I don't need to remember to re-edit the main config.

 

Same here, it's really useful

[Mistress Jade]

11 hours ago, blue35e said:

 I think you misunderstand the statement. It is not that I think something going on but it is a red flag. What I see as a warning sign, A DL that leads to a sight requiring giving up log in information to a unknown sight.  In general that is warning sign or cause for suspicion. Add the unprofessional appearance of the web sight it comes a crossed as a scam sight trying to collect PII and common passwords. In short I do not trust the sight or you with my information. That is not an statement that you are doing something wrong, but a lack of trust.

why would you talk about trust? what in the world does the author leaving nexus make you take the stance of mistrust of the author? and what does the way the website "look" that makes you think, "cant trust this". Site looks just fine for what its going to be used for, i see the website and think the mod author makes mods not web sites, then i dl the files i came for and move the hell on.

Edited August 7, 2021 by Mistress Jade

[blue35e]

12 hours ago, Mistress Jade said:

why would you talk about trust? what in the world does the author leaving nexus make you take the stance of mistrust of the author? and what does the way the website "look" that makes you think, "cant trust this". Site looks just fine for what its going to be used for, i see the website and think the mod author makes mods not web sites, then i dl the files i came for and move the hell on.

Because when it comes to cybersecurity you should only use trusted sources. It is not about him leaving nexus. (Although Nexus is a proven platform with a level of trust when it comes to accounts.) it is red flags with a unknown sight. A link download link to another sight requiring a log in be it, (Nexus or a private is red flag). Red flag + unknown site = Lack of trust. Red flag + known trusted sight = caution. The layout made me not want to explore the site.  Given that first thing I noticed him saying was almost a flame war with what looked petty personal attacks, I would question his professionalism. Just because he made a mod does not make him some one you should trust with your account information. (people often reuse user names and passwords - a bad cyber security practice - so a unknown to start collecting them is a red flag.)

 

 

Edited August 8, 2021 by blue35e

[Mistress Jade]

51 minutes ago, blue35e said:

Because when it comes to cybersecurity you should only use trusted sources. It is not about him leaving nexus. (Although Nexus is a proven platform with a level of trust when it comes to accounts.) it is red flags with a unknown sight. A link download link to another sight requiring a log in be it, (Nexus or a private is red flag). Red flag + unknown site = Lack of trust. Red flag + known trusted sight = caution. The layout made me not want to explore the site.  Given that first thing I noticed him saying was almost a flame war with what looked petty personal attacks, I would question his professionalism. Just because he made a mod does not make him some one you should trust with your account information. (people often reuse user names and passwords - a bad cyber security practice - so a unknown to start collecting them is a red flag.)

 

 

you like many of the others pissin and moaning over this are really just self entitled brats who think they can bully someone, and then paint it as "worried about trust" or whatever bs you guys can pullout out of your asses.

[RitualClarity]

2 hours ago, blue35e said:

Because when it comes to cybersecurity you should only use trusted sources. It is not about him leaving nexus. (Although Nexus is a proven platform with a level of trust when it comes to accounts.) it is red flags with a unknown sight. A link download link to another sight requiring a log in be it, (Nexus or a private is red flag). Red flag + unknown site = Lack of trust. Red flag + known trusted sight = caution. The layout made me not want to explore the site.  Given that first thing I noticed him saying was almost a flame war with what looked petty personal attacks, I would question his professionalism. Just because he made a mod does not make him some one you should trust with your account information. (people often reuse user names and passwords - a bad cyber security practice - so a unknown to start collecting them is a red flag.)

 

 

Great... goodbye.. don't let the internet door kick you on the way out.  While leaving make sure you have a properly sanctioned tin foil hat on. 

 

Have a great day.

 

Every complaint you have .. is solvable. Every web page, service has been new at one point...  Everybody has  been told multiple times in their lives about proper password use.  Using an Name, email and password is the standard way to handle web pages. This is the least invasive way to do this to get the minimum info needed to take care of the user (verify someone, recover their account if password is hacked and or forgotten)  Any other way I am aware of is more invasive and not needed for mods web site.

 

Multiple mods on LL are linked to web pages outside. This has been going on for years. It is a standard practice. This site can only handle up to a size before mods have to be broken down and re-murged by the users creating support request.

 

Seriously, every single complaint you have can be managed successfully using standard precautions from a good antivirus/malware program to complex dedicated passwords for all accounts to 2 factor authentication.  Paranoid people can add on to this VPN use. Which by the way would cost less than the monthly subscription to Nexus servers.

 

This comment you have given is seriously suspect. I suspect you want it on Nexus so that you can have those download list properly functional.  Many such strange post are occurring across the web where people try to convince others that having this there, elsewhere than Nexus is a bad thing. Fan boi's chiming in trying to get the mods they want onto Neuxs again after they move.

 

Nexus brought this on themselves.  Most authors were extremely happy to have their mods on the Nexus as it gave them great exposure and had tools that they could use to help manage their mods and they didn't have to fuck with web pages or multiple sources for support and or downloads. It was great until Nexus decided they'd be an ass and fuck this all up with their "we own your mods" policy.  No way to opt in, opt out, or even delete a mod. Removal of agency, ownership of something that someone or a group of people worked on for 100's, 1000's or  even ten's of thousands of hours to create, is a seriously bulshit move. So many other ways they could have handled it and likely retain many major mod authors in the process, but no they had to do it their way. They are so out of touch with the modding community from years ago when they tried that failed paid modding program and even before.

 

As a result, many mod authors like @dagobaking have moved on to other locations and users just have to deal with the fallout.

[ebbluminous]

The only information that is required is an email address. It is simplicity to create a disposable email address if worried about giving up that piece of data.

[Hanaxar]

1 hour ago, ebbluminous said:

The only information that is required is an email address. It is simplicity to create a disposable email address if worried about giving up that piece of data.

 

Exactly ffs…

And also I really liked that pipboy style website but now the default style is something modern.