framework Advanced Animation Framework

[RitualClarity]

Yes, he is working on various options to the web site. The first one (at least the one I joined) had to be replaced so some early adopters of the site had to reupload/re-register etc.. Not a big deal. I like the new system he has so far over the old one. Also he has changed the theme as well now without needing to have people re-register. that is nice in and of itself.

 

 

[CGi]

10 hours ago, blue35e said:

Because when it comes to cybersecurity you should only use trusted sources. It is not about him leaving nexus. (Although Nexus is a proven platform with a level of trust when it comes to accounts.) it is red flags with a unknown sight. A link download link to another sight requiring a log in be it, (Nexus or a private is red flag). Red flag + unknown site = Lack of trust. Red flag + known trusted sight = caution. The layout made me not want to explore the site.  Given that first thing I noticed him saying was almost a flame war with what looked petty personal attacks, I would question his professionalism. Just because he made a mod does not make him some one you should trust with your account information. (people often reuse user names and passwords - a bad cyber security practice - so a unknown to start collecting them is a red flag.)

i don't think you understand the topic you are talking about and if you did, you would know how to identify scams via URL's.
Anyway... not really AAF related and as others already stated: You do your thing, mod authors theirs so you'll have to give up on a few mods.

Edited August 8, 2021 by CGi

[Nebuchadnezzer2]

16 hours ago, Hanaxar said:

 

Exactly ffs…

And also I really liked that pipboy style website but now the default style is something modern. 

You can adjust it back to that in the user control panel, I did, 'cause I like it, but I can see it being quite off-putting for a lot of people, if it were left as the default.

[Hanaxar]

39 minutes ago, Nebuchadnezzer2 said:

You can adjust it back to that in the user control panel, I did, 'cause I like it, but I can see it being quite off-putting for a lot of people, if it were left as the default.

 

Yup I know. 

I uploaded my mods there, and also I checked my posts with all the styles available. I edited colors on my post to look best on default style and decent on other styles. 

 

[RitualClarity]

1 hour ago, Hanaxar said:

 

Yup I know. 

I uploaded my mods there, and also I checked my posts with all the styles available. I edited colors on my post to look best on default style and decent on other styles. 

 

N ice that you support a fellow mod author's site and upload your mods there. That shows trust.  Long ago Nexus was a site for mod authors, it doesn't feel like that to me now. If I had any mods I would be having a hard time to upload there. I would most likely not care if someone else used my mods with projects etc. with proper credit of course (and without monetary compensation after all I was giving it for free, why should someone else get $$$ ?  ) The way Nexus is doing it will give patron money to others not to mention indirect control (changes) to the mods uploaded to make them compatible. Then you can't even delete them? Yea, that is a tough pill to swallow.

[blastikor]

Maybe someone can point me in the right direction. I'm looking for information on the new Attraction System implemented into AAF. I checked moddingham, but I do not see anything there about it. Seems like there was something about it on moddingham about a week ago. I have tried finding information about it on google without any luck. Thanks in advance.

[vaultbait]

37 minutes ago, blastikor said:

Maybe someone can point me in the right direction. I'm looking for information on the new Attraction System implemented into AAF. I checked moddingham, but I do not see anything there about it. Seems like there was something about it on moddingham about a week ago. I have tried finding information about it on google without any luck. Thanks in advance.

 

See the changelog entries for 162 and 163: https://bitbucket.org/dagobaking/aaf-framework/wiki/Main/CHANGELOG.md

 

It's basically a feature waiting for mods to make use of, from what i can tell. I don't know of any which do, at least not yet anyway.

[Sthan Dust]

I LOVE the new additions, guys.  Though, I had a slight problem with the FFF animations.  I mean, three pussies, technically. ❤️

 

Haha. Had to share, I laugh, the slave laughed, the cat laughed, but I had to kill the spectators, it was unfortunate.

[blastikor]

24 minutes ago, vaultbait said:

See the changelog entries for 162 and 163: https://bitbucket.org/dagobaking/aaf-framework/wiki/Main/CHANGELOG.md

 

Thanks. I appreciate it.

[davisev5225]

On 8/6/2021 at 1:57 AM, mircislav said:

It would be less stressful for mod mod authors and mod users if mod authors have the ability to delete the post containing idiotic rumblings that have nothing with real mod help request (or just to remove the post they -mod author- do not like for whatever reason). If you don't like some mod (for whatever reason), solution is simple, DO NOT use it and DO NOT shit all over someones tread. Leave the space for someone that actually need help with some part of the mod they use. And also, there are Discord channels for various mods where users can ask for help on specific matter. As Saya wrote earlier, reading is still rather useful ability that has been given to humans together with eyesight... not to mention that the thing residing behind the eyes is also very useful if used in proper way. 

This is just as suggestion, sorry if someone find it offensive for whatever reason.

And please, have a prosperous sex life.

 

I got "dragged" back in here because of a notification.  I'll say right off the bat I'm not here to re-hash any existing argument (at least that I can recall, anyway...)  This is not a commentary on any previous arguments (including my own), I'm presenting this opinion in a vacuum.  I have no intention of re-engaging in previous arguments as they've already been exhausted.  Please do not drag them back up.

 

I'll just say that negative feedback is still (potentially) valuable, and allowing people to delete negative feedback is likely not a good thing.  Just look at the "pay-to-win" scheme of Yelp, or the mess that is YouTube comment moderation.  People deliberately hide negative feedback if given the choice because it makes their product or service look better than it might really be, or because they feel personally offended by negative opinions.  Enough negative feedback can also potentially help someone change their product or service, though this is certainly not guaranteed.

 

If something is truly abusive or breaks the rules, the moderation team can and will handle it.  Beyond that, my personal preference would be to let discussions happen and leave them visible to the masses unless or until they are no longer relevant (such as if dagobaking decided to no longer support AAF here).

[dagobaking]

 

On 8/7/2021 at 6:20 AM, vaultbait said:

 

This feature is useful to more than just mod authors. I take advantage of it to keep my personal preference overrides separate from the default settings, so that when I upgrade or reinstall AAF I don't need to remember to re-edit the main config.

 

Nice! A smart way to set it up that I hadn't thought of myself.

 

On 8/8/2021 at 3:21 AM, blue35e said:

Just because he made a mod does not make him some one you should trust with your account information. (people often reuse user names and passwords - a bad cyber security practice - so a unknown to start collecting them is a red flag.)

 

Nothing wrong with being careful on the internet. But, I don't see how the existence of a new site with registration constitutes a "red flag."

 

Ultimately, it's always up to the user to decide when/if to trust a site. Not sure what I could do differently to change anything there...

 

On 8/8/2021 at 6:15 AM, RitualClarity said:

Many such strange post are occurring across the web where people try to convince others that having this there, elsewhere than Nexus is a bad thing.

 

This crossed my mind as well... Not to make any specific accusations. But, there could be some astro-turfing going on.

 

2 hours ago, davisev5225 said:

I'll just say that negative feedback is still (potentially) valuable, and allowing people to delete negative feedback is likely not a good thing.  Just look at the "pay-to-win" scheme of Yelp, or the mess that is YouTube comment moderation.  People deliberately hide negative feedback if given the choice because it makes their product or service look better than it might really be, or because they feel personally offended by negative opinions.  Enough negative feedback can also potentially help someone change their product or service, though this is certainly not guaranteed.

 

I can't speak for other authors. But, constructive criticism is always welcome to me. I think people are referring to when comments cross a line from constructive to demanding/shitposting.

 

Yelp is quite a bit different than mod sites because it is focused on reviews for pay services. Comments at mod sites tend to be more conversational rather than the "thumbs up" or "thumbs down" type. I think mod users base their download decisions more on number of downloads and requirements lists. Many of them don't even take the time to read the mod description itself. So, its probably safe to assume they dont read pages back to see who might have complained.

Edited August 11, 2021 by dagobaking

[davisev5225]

37 minutes ago, dagobaking said:

Comments at mod sites tend to be more conversational rather than the "thumbs up" or "thumbs down" type. I think mod users base their download decisions more on number of downloads and requirements lists. Many of them don't even take the time to read the mod description itself. So, its probably safe to assume they dont read pages back to see who might have complained.

 

We have at least one person who proved the contrary.  They decided to comment after you and I got done arguing.  If it's true for one person...

[dagobaking]

4 minutes ago, davisev5225 said:

We have at least one person who proved the contrary.  They decided to comment after you and I got done arguing.  If it's true for one person...

 

Didn't they say that they only came to the thread for support?

[davisev5225]

2 minutes ago, dagobaking said:

 

Didn't they say that they only came to the thread for support?

 

Yes, but decided to have a different discussion (and apparently decided not to play F4 anymore?) due to the recent thread content.

 

Yes, it's a bit of a reach, but it's not actually an unreasonable one.

[dagobaking]

22 minutes ago, davisev5225 said:

 

Yes, but decided to have a different discussion (and apparently decided not to play F4 anymore?) due to the recent thread content.

 

Yes, it's a bit of a reach, but it's not actually an unreasonable one.

 

So, you're saying that it would have been unfortunate if those arguments never happened and potentially caused other people to start similar arguments?

 

Keeping in mind that they have little to nothing to do with the actual usefulness of downloading the mod...

Edited August 11, 2021 by dagobaking

[davisev5225]

7 minutes ago, dagobaking said:

 

So, you're saying that it would have been unfortunate if those arguments never happened and potentially caused other people to start similar arguments?

 

Keeping in mind that they have little to nothing to do with the actual usefulness of downloading the mod...

 

No, I'm saying negative feedback could potentially be useful, and we've already seen someone change their approach due to negative feedback.  You're inferring where there is nothing.

 

And yes, the specific (two) arguments that have happened recently have (almost) nothing to do with the usefulness of the mod, but that doesn't disprove the usefulness of negative feedback, especially if said feedback does pertain to the usefulness of the mod.  In fact, my entire position on this matter has essentially nothing to do with your mod at all; it just happens that the discussion was opened in this thread.

Edited August 11, 2021 by davisev5225

[dagobaking]

9 minutes ago, davisev5225 said:

No, I'm saying negative feedback could potentially be useful, and we've already seen someone change their approach due to negative feedback.  You're inferring where there is nothing.

 

This doesn't follow the position you started with. No users looked at the comments like they would at a Yelp page to find out what the balance of like/dislikes are. One user came across some shit unrelated to their goal and decided to join in on the fun. The same type of shitposting pattern that can be found under subjects like "Chevy vs Ford" and "Rest in Peace, Harambe"

 

You are actually making a stronger case for why those posts should be deleted. Since I can't delete them I am forced to defend myself instead. This ends up distracting from conversations that could be had and gives a false impression about constructive criticism and the community in general.

 

Note that while you two endeavored with that 1000 users registered at Moddingham without complaint. On that basis, I would say that the amount of discussion taken up by 2 people vs the 1000 others actions represents a distortion of how most users view the mod and the situation.

 

In other words, your "negative feedback" has only proven useful toward over-representing an unpopular view.

 

[CGi]

33 minutes ago, davisev5225 said:

No, I'm saying negative feedback could potentially be useful, <snip>.

No, it could not. it's discouraging. Constructive feedback is usefull as it incl. reports about bugs and requests for features.
Negative feedback is just that: Negative.

[Saya Scarlett]

Sounds like someone is arguing for the sake of it or just outright trolling.

 

What CG said is nothing but a fact.

There's constructive feedback on one hand and outright negative "feedback" on the other.

One is useful: Reports, bugs, observations, requests

The other is nothing but just screaming at something like an entitled child.

 

This leads us nowhere and should just stop.

[davisev5225]

30 minutes ago, dagobaking said:

 

This doesn't follow the position you started with. No users looked at the comments like they would at a Yelp page to find out what the balance of like/dislikes are.

 

 

As the person making the argument, perhaps I've not properly conveyed it; if so, I apologize.  You do, however, seem to like trying to find hidden meanings in what people say, so I'm not surprised you've missed what I was trying to say.  Regardless, I'm not going to start circling the drain on this one too.  I've said my bit, so this will be my last post on the matter.  I expect you're going to reply, you do also seem to like having the last word, but you'll get no further discussion from me on this point.

 

  

30 minutes ago, dagobaking said:

 

You are actually making a stronger case for why those posts should be deleted. Since I can't delete them I am forced to defend myself instead. This ends up distracting from conversations that could be had and gives a false impression about constructive criticism and the community in general.

 

 

Case in point to what I just said above.  You completely missed the point because you're too busy looking for hidden meanings instead of just taking things at face value.  This is precisely why letting people delete comments they don't like is a bad idea.  You don't get to control the narrative around something you've put out into the public consciousness; trying to do so is dishonest at best and reflects poorly on your character.

 

  

30 minutes ago, dagobaking said:

 

Note that while you two endeavored with that 1000 users registered at Moddingham without complaint. On that basis, I would say that the amount of discussion taken up by 2 people vs the 1000 others actions represents a distortion of how most users view the mod and the situation.

 

In other words, your "negative feedback" has only proven useful toward over-representing an unpopular view.

 

 

The negative feedback has served its purpose - you're aware there are unhappy people and you've made a decision based on that information.  That decision was to not change your mind.  And given that AAF had over 400k downloads on Nexus, and the most recent version up there has over 136k unique downloads, 1000 users is hardly a significant statistic by which to draw a conclusion, though I freely admit it's far more than two unhappy users, so your conclusion is likely close to the truth.

 

(Now I'm addressing you directly, and more specifically, your recent posting behavior.  I also will not reply to this because you've already demonstrated a complete unwillingness to listen when someone tells you that you're being an asshole, so I'll just leave my thoughts and walk away.)

 

That said, there could have been less arguing back and forth.  I've taken the hint (twice now), I wish you would as well.  You're just as much a part of the negative perception as I am.  Your replies fuel the discussion, so you must share the blame, and hiding behind excuses like "I should be able to defend myself" is intellectually weak.  If you want negativity to go away, you don't confront it, you ignore it, ESPECIALLY if you think someone is trolling you.  Trolls like attention and hate being dismissed, and complainers usually fade away on their own if you don't keep replying to them.  I certainly did (despite your replies, it was a conscious decision to end the pointless bickering) until this thread popped back up on my radar because someone liked two of my posts.  I looked out of curiosity and got drawn back in; if not for that, you'd not have seen another peep from me.

 

(I assume you're going to reply to this as well with some snark telling me how "wrong" I am... ?)

 

 

 

  

23 minutes ago, CGi said:

No, it could not. it's discouraging. Constructive feedback is usefull as it incl. reports about bugs and requests for features.
Negative feedback is just that: Negative.

 

"Constructive" implies you have a solution or a suggestion.  Not everyone does, but someone else might be able to fill in the blanks.  By saying "you're not allowed to complain about something you don't like unless you can spin it around to be positive" is just asinine and deprives people of their ability to provide valid feedback just because they can't wrap that feedback in a warm fuzzy.  Stop trying to live in a bubble and accept that complaining has merit, so long as it isn't abusive or excessive.

Edited August 11, 2021 by davisev5225

[CGi]

11 minutes ago, davisev5225 said:

"Constructive" implies you have a solution or a suggestion.  Not everyone does, but someone else might be able to fill in the blanks.  By saying "you're not allowed to complain about something you don't like unless you can spin it around to be positive" is just asinine and deprives people of their ability to provide valid feedback just because they can't wrap that feedback in a warm fuzzy.  Stop trying to live in a bubble and accept that complaining has merit, so long as it isn't abusive or excessive.

No, it actually doesn't. Constructive implies that a bug report contains enough informations so it can be reproduced, while suggested content contains enough informations to understand the users vision. Else nothing can be constructed from it.
Negativity can only be added to criticism by using negative wording. Else it's neutral and maybe lackluster, when it comes to required informations, or it actually is constructive.

Edited August 11, 2021 by CGi

[dagobaking]

9 minutes ago, davisev5225 said:

As the person making the argument, perhaps I've not properly conveyed it; if so, I apologize.  You do, however, seem to like trying to find hidden meanings in what people say, so I'm not surprised you've missed what I was trying to say.

 

I have created no meanings. I have responded to the words that you wrote. What I think is really happening here is that you are a more transparent person than you think you are and the implications of your own feelings and words surprise even yourself once someone calls it out.

 

9 minutes ago, davisev5225 said:

Regardless, I'm not going to start circling the drain on this one too.  I've said my bit, so this will be my last post on the matter.  I expect you're going to reply, you do also seem to like having the last word, but you'll get no further discussion from me on this point.

 

What I like is to not let arguments I disagree with stand uncontested on my project thread.

 

9 minutes ago, davisev5225 said:

Case in point to what I just said above.  You completely missed the point because you're too busy looking for hidden meanings instead of just taking things at face value.  This is precisely why letting people delete comments they don't like is a bad idea.  You don't get to control the narrative around something you've put out into the public consciousness; trying to do so is dishonest at best and reflects poorly on your character.

 

How is that a case in point? I didn't create any hidden meaning. I made a counter point.

 

What reflects poorly on character is you desiring to impose your unpopular narrative onto my project thread. You obviously are lurking around here in the hopes to see some kind of negative outcome for myself because I took your self-centered grievance to the woodshed.

 

9 minutes ago, davisev5225 said:

The negative feedback has served its purpose - you're aware there are unhappy people and you've made a decision based on that information.

 

Correction: Unhappy person. Quit pretending like you represent anyone other than yourself.

 

Recall for instance that even the other arguing person didn't agree with you on the merits.

 

9 minutes ago, davisev5225 said:

And given that AAF had over 400k downloads on Nexus

 

Seriously now? That is over the lifetime of the mod.

 

9 minutes ago, davisev5225 said:

and the most recent version up there has over 136k unique downloads

 

Which hasn't changed for an unusually long time due to machine change and other IRL factors.

 

9 minutes ago, davisev5225 said:

(Now I'm addressing you directly, and more specifically, your recent posting behavior.  I also will not reply to this because you've already demonstrated a complete unwillingness to listen when someone tells you that you're being an asshole, so I'll just leave my thoughts and walk away.)

 

And are you listening to the others disagreeing with you here? Why am I the only one being examined? It seems like, according to your own logic, you are more guilty than I am of not listening when people tell you that you're being an asshole.

 

And I am perfectly comfortable being an asshole to people who asked for it and threw the first stone. What do you expect? That I should go into a customer-is-always-right mode? As I've already pointed out, my mods are free. You have obtained no credit with me by using it. Therefore I have just as much right to question how you approach me as you do of me.

 

9 minutes ago, davisev5225 said:

Your replies fuel the discussion, so you must share the blame, and hiding behind excuses like "I should be able to defend myself" is intellectually weak.

 

If you show up acting like an asshole I will respond in kind. Every time. If someone doesn't like that and won't use AAF because of it that is a user I don't want anyway. I fire you. And I fire them as well.

 

What is intellectually weak is you trying to promote some set of rules where you can talk shit and not expect the target to defend themselves.

 

9 minutes ago, davisev5225 said:

If you want negativity to go away, you don't confront it, you ignore it, ESPECIALLY if you think someone is trolling you.

 

I don't know where you got this cowardly and ineffective idea from. I disagree. If their trolling isn't removed I confront it head-on.

 

9 minutes ago, davisev5225 said:

Trolls like attention and hate being dismissed, and complainers usually fade away on their own if you don't keep replying to them.  I certainly did (despite your replies, it was a conscious decision to end the pointless bickering) until this thread popped back up on my radar because someone liked two of my posts.  I looked out of curiosity and got drawn back in; if not for that, you'd not have seen another peep from me.

 

Are you admitting here that you were trolling from the beginning?

 

9 minutes ago, davisev5225 said:

"Constructive" implies you have a solution or a suggestion.  Not everyone does, but someone else might be able to fill in the blanks.  By saying "you're not allowed to complain about something you don't like unless you can spin it around to be positive" is just asinine and deprives people of their ability to provide valid feedback just because they can't wrap that feedback in a warm fuzzy.  Stop trying to live in a bubble and accept that complaining has merit, so long as it isn't abusive or excessive.

 

The irony is that I don't need criticism to be sugar-coated. This is evidenced directly by the person you are replying to here. CG! himself has questioned many of my decisions in no uncertain or polite terms. But, first of all, he had credit as someone who showed his constructive intentions first. Not "Nice to meet you but I need you to do this for me!" Second of all, he is always coming from a genuine place, even if I disagree.

 

I think you are having a hard time seeing past the customer-vendor relationship idea. You bought nothing. You obtained no credit. Therefore I have no obligation to give weight to your complaints. In the relationship we do have, I am within my rights to say "Is this a reasonable, genuine complaint? Or is this just someone acting like an entitled brat?" Your complaint fell into the latter category and that is nobodies fault but your own.

[davisev5225]

31 minutes ago, dagobaking said:

Are you admitting here that you were trolling from the beginning?

 

Alright, I'll bite on this one point, and only to answer your question for posterity.  I can and do still read despite not replying.  Lurking, but not for any malicious intent.

 

No, I'm in the latter category, I lodged a complaint.  I do think KatieLlymlaen was trolling, though - there was absolutely no reason to re-open an already closed argument.  ?‍♂️

Edited August 11, 2021 by davisev5225

[RitualClarity]

13 hours ago, dagobaking said:

 

 

This crossed my mind as well... Not to make any specific accusations. But, there could be some astro-turfing going on.

 

Well... it appears as if I don't have a problem making specific accusations lol...

jokes aside... since the Announcements from Nexus and the mass migration from Nexus by authors of some pretty popular mods, this has happened. I can count on one hand the comments about how it is better if it was on Nexus over the past 10 years that I have seen. Suddenly, hints and outright claims that it is better there has increased.. Suspect at the minimum even if it might my opinion. I can't figure out why random newbies posting all over the place posting such things.... (low post count etc) Not coming from major established members of said sites. Not from mod authors with major works under their belt. Only from Noobs at that site. Very suspect indeed. I am however open to someone that can give a reasonable and rational explanation why now... all of a sudden, Nexus is the only place these mods should be and why an author that is clearly trying to protect their works and rights to said work, shouldn't do so and allow someone else to dictate what is done with the mod (keeping in mind that these list creators are aledigagly modifying the files to make them compatible possibly introducing problems that the author of the mod might end up getting support request for not knowing such thing was done)

 

[davisev5225]

2 hours ago, RitualClarity said:

Well... it appears as if I don't have a problem making specific accusations lol...

jokes aside... since the Announcements from Nexus and the mass migration from Nexus by authors of some pretty popular mods, this has happened. I can count on one hand the comments about how it is better if it was on Nexus over the past 10 years that I have seen. Suddenly, hints and outright claims that it is better there has increased.. Suspect at the minimum even if it might my opinion. I can't figure out why random newbies posting all over the place posting such things.... (low post count etc) Not coming from major established members of said sites. Not from mod authors with major works under their belt. Only from Noobs at that site. Very suspect indeed. I am however open to someone that can give a reasonable and rational explanation why now... all of a sudden, Nexus is the only place these mods should be and why an author that is clearly trying to protect their works and rights to said work, shouldn't do so and allow someone else to dictate what is done with the mod (keeping in mind that these list creators are aledigagly modifying the files to make them compatible possibly introducing problems that the author of the mod might end up getting support request for not knowing such thing was done)

 

 

(Apparently I just can't stay away, but at least I've got a contribution that no one can put a spin on this time.)

 

People don't like change.  It's really that simple.  Also, negative bias is definitely a thing.  People are far more likely to post reviews if they have a negative experience than if they have a positive one, and this behavior extends far beyond just product reviews.  While things were status-quo, there was no reason or motivation for many people to say "I like this exactly how it is", because they were happy and saw no need to request change.  Now that the status-quo has been disrupted, the unhappy remarks start coming out of the woodwork.

 

I can't say there's no astroturf, but I don't really see any motivation to do so either.  Low post count users exist simply because they had to register on Nexus (or LL, though not in this particular case) in order to download things.  They had no reason to participate in the forums before now because they were just jumping through the hoops necessary to get to the download button - posting is not a requirement for that.  AAF's widespread popularity has simply magnified the visible effects of this negative bias due to the sheer size of the userbase.