framework Advanced Animation Framework

[mircislav]

21 hours ago, davisev5225 said:

my personal preference would be to let discussions happen

Yes, that can be true, unless someone is shitting allover your post and making the discussion irrelevant and without purpose. There are other places to release your stress - this forum is for getting help and advice for mod you are using.

[RitualClarity]

3 hours ago, davisev5225 said:

 

(Apparently I just can't stay away, but at least I've got a contribution that no one can put a spin on this time.)

 

People don't like change.  It's really that simple.  Also, negative bias is definitely a thing.  People are far more likely to post reviews if they have a negative experience than if they have a positive one, and this behavior extends far beyond just product reviews.  While things were status-quo, there was no reason or motivation for many people to say "I like this exactly how it is", because they were happy and saw no need to request change.  Now that the status-quo has been disrupted, the unhappy remarks start coming out of the woodwork.

 

I can't say there's no astroturf, but I don't really see any motivation to do so either.  Low post count users exist simply because they had to register on Nexus (or LL, though not in this particular case) in order to download things.  They had no reason to participate in the forums before now because they were just jumping through the hoops necessary to get to the download button - posting is not a requirement for that.  AAF's widespread popularity has simply magnified the visible effects of this negative bias due to the sheer size of the userbase.

I see your point and they are pretty strong.... however, these post I am talking about are people posting attacking the mod author, not the cause of the situation. The mod authors are the ones that have been harmed by this. Sure, users have been as well but this is a free offering. The authors were basically being told that their work was going to be taken away from them. They had to move or accept it.  going to those authors pages and expressing their "negative bias" and dissatisfaction is the wrong thing to do. This will only leave the author even more frustrated and get the poster of this, a lot of negative attention  and counter post.

If one wants to express their frustration for such things they need to express it to the source of the problem. Had Nexus not changed their policy many of these authors would still be happily there using their services.  Some of the users might not understand the work and or way things work in the modding world... many others that post this, likely do. In either case, attacking the mod author with various comments in order to try to convince them they made a horrible mistake is wrong. This will fail. These decisions they made to move from Nexus was a serious life changing change they had to go through and in no way one that was easy.

 

to those that do fall into your criteria, I implore them to focus their attention and dissatisfaction to Nexus, its Administration.  This isn't likely being done as they are afraid of loosing their accounts as Nexus swats the flies that are bothering them. They don't care. This I believe, this is the reason those users are coming to the mod authors sites / threads and posting their dissatisfaction. To this I say STOP IT.

37 minutes ago, mircislav said:

Yes, that can be true, unless someone is shitting allover your post and making the discussion irrelevant and without purpose. There are other places to release your stress - this forum is for getting help and advice for mod you are using.

Yes, this is a support thread and the sooner those that want express their "negative bias" get that through their heads and either accept the new reality and /or move on the sooner we can get back to business and take care of support, feature request and other important meaningful conversations because AAF's new location isn't going to change ... period. Regardless of how many no name unknown noobs and low post members come and suggest otherwise.

 

Trust me, this has been a pain for everybody involved. I am of the firm believe that @dagobaking understands this.

[ChandraArgentis]

I'm having issues with AAF scenes triggering.  All of the 'sex' scenes from "Barbarous Continent" and "Boston Breeder" don't seem to work, at all.  Any idea what could be causing all of these scenes to just flat-out not work?  I've tried both AAF 161.1 and 164 beta.

[vaultbait]

39 minutes ago, ChandraArgentis said:

I'm having issues with AAF scenes triggering.  All of the 'sex' scenes from "Barbarous Continent" and "Boston Breeder" don't seem to work, at all.  Any idea what could be causing all of these scenes to just flat-out not work?  I've tried both AAF 161.1 and 164 beta.

 

Have you tried to use AAF's on-screen interface to initiate a scene, or checked its admin log (also available through the same interface)? Have you looked in your Papyrus logs to see if there may be a script error written there?

[CGi]

42 minutes ago, ChandraArgentis said:

I'm having issues with AAF scenes triggering.  All of the 'sex' scenes from "Barbarous Continent" and "Boston Breeder" don't seem to work, at all.  Any idea what could be causing all of these scenes to just flat-out not work?  I've tried both AAF 161.1 and 164 beta.

This requires closer inspection. Please visit the AAF Discord.

[dagobaking]

 

10 hours ago, davisev5225 said:

Now that the status-quo has been disrupted, the unhappy remarks start coming out of the woodwork.

 

Well. In this case the issue has only been brought up a few times [for Moddingham and AAF not Nexus at large] and mostly in a curious manner ("why the change?") rather than unhappiness. So, it seems that the woodwork really didn't change much.

 

10 hours ago, davisev5225 said:

I can't say there's no astroturf, but I don't really see any motivation to do so either.

 

If there is astroturfing we wouldn't be dealing with genuine comments. And the motivation would be the potential money to be made from auto-install features.

 

6 hours ago, RitualClarity said:

going to those authors pages and expressing their "negative bias" and dissatisfaction is the wrong thing to do. This will only leave the author even more frustrated and get the poster of this, a lot of negative attention  and counter post.

 

Well said. It's baffling to me that there is anyone out there that doesn't get this. They don't seem to understand that they are the recipient of charity. They somehow think that the mod authors owe either them or Nexus.

 

It's like depending on a soup kitchen to eat and then complaining to the chef that they don't make the right kind of soup.

 

Edited August 12, 2021 by dagobaking

[ChandraArgentis]

5 hours ago, vaultbait said:

Have you tried to use AAF's on-screen interface to initiate a scene, or checked its admin log (also available through the same interface)? Have you looked in your Papyrus logs to see if there may be a script error written there?

 

No.

I don't know how to open the on-screen interface (161.1 isn't showing it in MCM), and I don't have Papyrus installed, as it isn't listed as a prereq for any of my mods.

[mircislav]

8 hours ago, ChandraArgentis said:

I'm having issues with AAF scenes triggering

Please follow directions posted here:

- by the letter and everything will be working. I am also mod user (no modder at all), do not rush trough the post, do it step by step and read twice every stage before even begin the installation of the components.

[mikesolo1975]

i try register in Moddingham  and at the end i cant enter the code always error.?

[RitualClarity]

45 minutes ago, mikesolo1975 said:

i try register in Moddingham  and at the end i cant enter the code always error.?

I had the same problem. I captured the code as a screen-capture (small ) and then enlarged it and noticed that the letter / number etc I expected it was, was indeed different. After I did this I was able to register.

 

[murf]

50 minutes ago, mikesolo1975 said:

i try register in Moddingham  and at the end i cant enter the code always error.?

Try using a different browser. I had been failing the code repeatedly using firefox but when using edge it passed 1st try.

[mikesolo1975]

1 hour ago, RitualClarity said:

I had the same problem. I captured the code as a screen-capture (small ) and then enlarged it and noticed that the letter / number etc I expected it was, was indeed different. After I did this I was able to register.

 

 

56 minutes ago, murf said:

Try using a different browser. I had been failing the code repeatedly using firefox but when using edge it passed 1st try.

ok

it works. finaly i register.

thanks for the both help and time my friends. ?

[RitualClarity]

1 hour ago, murf said:

Try using a different browser. I had been failing the code repeatedly using firefox but when using edge it passed 1st try.

good point.. only thing is I despise Edge...   My mind couldn't even begin to think of using it to solve my problem lol.

[RitualClarity]

2 hours ago, mircislav said:

Please follow directions posted here:

- by the letter and everything will be working. I am also mod user (no modder at all), do not rush trough the post, do it step by step and read twice every stage before even begin the installation of the components.

And if there is some confusion related to the instructions, please, always ask before messing up your install. Not all people have the same level of experience modding and not all people are native English speakers.  (you will find that there are many others here that might speak your language if that is the issue   Sometimes translation programs don't always get things right with technical instructions like these.

[murf]

5 hours ago, RitualClarity said:

good point.. only thing is I despise Edge...   My mind couldn't even begin to think of using it to solve my problem lol.

I hate it, rarely use it, only in times of desperation lol.

[davisev5225]

13 hours ago, dagobaking said:

Well. In this case the issue has only been brought up a few times [for Moddingham and AAF not Nexus at large] and mostly in a curious manner ("why the change?") rather than unhappiness. So, it seems that the woodwork really didn't change much.

 

I think you're a "victim" of your own success there.  A lot of modders have moved to Discord, which doesn't require re-registering just to download something, or were already on established sites such as LL.  Some of them also went to Patreon, where they're either charging for their work or they had free downloads available with voluntary support models.  Patreon also seems to hold a special exemption in the modding community, particularly the adult modding community, in that people will either ignore it exists or just go with it.  I've rarely seen anything in-between.

 

You're in a (somewhat?) unique position in that you specifically started your own website that requires user registration for your specific, but very popular and prolific mod.  I'd be willing to say the "why the change" people are probably unhappy, but haven't actually solidified an opinion yet and are just looking for more information before completely making up their minds.  Again, negative bias is definitely a thing, so the fact they are speaking up at all leans towards unhappy rather than simple curiosity.  People instinctually don't like change, even if that change amounts to a ball of nothingness...

 

  

13 hours ago, dagobaking said:

If there is astroturfing we wouldn't be dealing with genuine comments. And the motivation would be the potential money to be made from auto-install features.

 

Is there really any money to be made from compilation packs and auto-install features?  Admittedly I haven't gone looking for anything of the sort, but I haven't stumbled across them either.  I'd be curious if they existed, and further curious if anyone could trace disgruntled, vocal users back to said systems.  It would boggle my mind if people were actually PAYING for content that is explicitly free of charge.  You'd have a pretty good case for a lawsuit if that was happening - beyond the gray area of ad-revenue, it is definitely illegal for someone to profit from your work without explicit permission to do so, even if they're only trying to charge for "installation help" or similar - the distribution part of that model would be enough to say they're profiting from distributing your work.

 

Also, can I assume that you believe the comments are genuine based on the first part of your statement here?  I guess that means you're also not convinced that there's really any astroturf?  Just curious.

 

  

13 hours ago, dagobaking said:

Well said. It's baffling to me that there is anyone out there that doesn't get this. They don't seem to understand that they are the recipient of charity. They somehow think that the mod authors owe either them or Nexus.

 

It's like depending on a soup kitchen to eat and then complaining to the chef that they don't make the right kind of soup.

 

That's probably the best and best-phrased argument I've seen you make.  Kudos!  That's why I led my opening posts with "your mod, you can do what you want", because I personally don't have any rights to tell you what to do with your mod.  All I've tried to do is express disappointment (and provide advice you clearly don't want, hence why I stopped), and I think we both got carried away in the debate rather than just letting things go.

 

I do stand by my opinions, and am still disappointed with how you chose to respond in a hostile manner, but please consider this a public apology for dragging things out in public like I did - I should have left it at one or two posts instead of the several back-and-forth.

[JB.]

Hello @dagobaking I find it convenient that you deactivate the high heels that use the High Heel System. But do you know if there is a way that I can leave them activated in certain scenes? (like dances).

[dagobaking]

4 hours ago, davisev5225 said:

I'd be willing to say the "why the change" people are probably unhappy, but haven't actually solidified an opinion yet and are just looking for more information before completely making up their minds.  Again, negative bias is definitely a thing, so the fact they are speaking up at all leans towards unhappy rather than simple curiosity.  People instinctually don't like change, even if that change amounts to a ball of nothingness...

 

That sounds more like confirmation bias to me.

 

4 hours ago, davisev5225 said:

Is there really any money to be made from compilation packs and auto-install features?

 

Yes. Some list/pack makers are making money from their work. I don't particularly begrudge them making money since it is work to make a good list. However, its not following basic business ethics until/unless it involves getting the explicit approval of each mod author whose work appears in the list.

 

There is a reason why Nexus invested years into the feature and has so far doubled-down on it even in the face of a significant mod exodus.

 

4 hours ago, davisev5225 said:

Admittedly I haven't gone looking for anything of the sort, but I haven't stumbled across them either.

 

It sounds like something you haven't looked very far in to.

 

4 hours ago, davisev5225 said:

Also, can I assume that you believe the comments are genuine based on the first part of your statement here?  I guess that means you're also not convinced that there's really any astroturf?  Just curious.

 

I don't know either way. As was pointed out, the motivation for people to defend list-makers doesn't seem to plausibly align with the posting activity.

 

4 hours ago, davisev5225 said:

That's probably the best and best-phrased argument I've seen you make.  Kudos!

 

Eh...

 

4 hours ago, davisev5225 said:

That's why I led my opening posts with "your mod, you can do what you want", because I personally don't have any rights to tell you what to do with your mod.  All I've tried to do is express disappointment (and provide advice you clearly don't want, hence why I stopped), and I think we both got carried away in the debate rather than just letting things go.

 

I do stand by my opinions, and am still disappointed with how you chose to respond in a hostile manner, but please consider this a public apology for dragging things out in public like I did - I should have left it at one or two posts instead of the several back-and-forth.

 

I appreciate the attempt at apologizing.

[davisev5225]

2 minutes ago, dagobaking said:

I appreciate the attempt at apologizing.

OK, seriously?  What is your problem?  I just apologized for my part in causing drama in your thread, and this is your response?  What the fuck?  That wasn't an "attempt", it was a genuine apology.  One that I now regret because you're still being rude.

[dagobaking]

44 minutes ago, JB. said:

Hello @dagobaking I find it convenient that you deactivate the high heels that use the High Heel System. But do you know if there is a way that I can leave them activated in certain scenes? (like dances).

 

The functionality to fix height for heels is actually built in to the HHS scripts rather than AAF. So, to get the feature you would like something would need to be added to the HHS code.

 

They could set it up to skip making the height change if/when an animation has a tag like "dance" or "skip_height_adjust" for instance. That would be the best way, imo. Or, they could look for a keyword on the actor. But, that would require you adding the keyword to them before such animations...

[vaultbait]

8 minutes ago, davisev5225 said:

OK, seriously?  What is your problem?  I just apologized for my part in causing drama in your thread, and this is your response?  What the fuck?  That wasn't an "attempt", it was a genuine apology.  One that I now regret because you're still being rude.

 

I'm really just munching popcorn over here, but your genuine apology made a judgment call in referring to his response as "hostile"  ...not simply that it came across to you as hostile, or that you misconstrued it as hostile, or that you recognized it as a natural reaction to your own hostile-seeming provocations, but just plain ipso facto hostile.

[dagobaking]

13 minutes ago, davisev5225 said:

OK, seriously?  What is your problem?  I just apologized for my part in causing drama in your thread, and this is your response?  What the fuck?  That wasn't an "attempt", it was a genuine apology.  One that I now regret because you're still being rude.

 

You narrowed and framed your apology so that all you really apologized for was posting too many times. And this was right after arrogantly blessing the phrasing of one of my arguments.

 

I was being as charitable as possible in response.

 

 

[davisev5225]

5 hours ago, dagobaking said:

 

You narrowed and framed your apology so that all you really apologized for was posting too many times.

 

 

Of course I narrowed the scope of my apology - I can only apologize for what I did wrong.  Contrary to what some people in this thread seem to think, it is not wrong to post a complaint.  What I did wrong here was continue to argue with you over that complaint.  I apologized for that.  I cannot and will not apologize for your contributions to the arguments, as they are outside of my control and not of my doing.  I firmly believe you owe me the same apology, since you automatically assumed the worst of me and have been on the attack the entire time, but I won't delude myself into believing you'll actually issue one, as you seem to believe you can do no wrong here.

 

5 hours ago, dagobaking said:

 

And this was right after arrogantly blessing the phrasing of one of my arguments.

 

 

Once again, you seem to be looking for hidden meanings and assuming the worst of people.  What you call arrogance, I call encouragement.  For a moment, you took a much better approach: you used empathy instead of hostility.  I gave positive feedback for the change in tone, and you chose to interpret it in a negative manner rather than accept the compliment.

 

How exactly am I supposed to have a civil conversation with you if you won't even accept a compliment?

 

5 hours ago, dagobaking said:

 

I was being as charitable as possible in response.

 

 

From where I sit, your reply looks like more hostility with a dash of passive-aggressiveness and snark.  "Charitable" is not at all an accurate description.  You could have said "I appreciate your apology" and left it at that.  Instead, you chose to go on the attack... again.

Edited August 13, 2021 by davisev5225

[CGi]

2 hours ago, davisev5225 said:

What I did wrong here was continue to argue with you over that complaint.  I apologized for that.

That's pretty much on-point as the argument between dagoba_king and you is by now more of a waste of time than anything else and it'll lead nowhere.

Edited August 13, 2021 by CGi

[dagobaking]

1 hour ago, davisev5225 said:

 

Of course I narrowed the scope of my apology - I can only apologize for what I did wrong.  Contrary to what some people in this thread seem to think, it is not wrong to post a complaint.  What I did wrong here was continue to argue with you over that complaint.

 

Then you are apologizing for something I never took issue with while ignoring the issues I did raise.

 

I never said that complaining is something wrong. I covered that point at length and multiple times now.

 

1 hour ago, davisev5225 said:

What you call arrogance, I call encouragement.

 

What the? Am I your child? On what basis do you think you are in a position to encourage me about how to form my own arguments?

 

1 hour ago, davisev5225 said:

I gave positive feedback for the change in tone, and you chose to interpret it in a negative manner rather than accept the compliment.

 

Yes. I am a normal human being and reacted in a predictable way to your patronizing.

 

The more you write the more evidence you give that my instincts were right about you from post #1. Blind arrogance.

 

1 hour ago, davisev5225 said:

How exactly am I supposed to have a civil conversation with you if you won't even accept a compliment?

 

How am I supposed to have a sane conversation with someone who thinks that it's normal to talk down to me?

 

1 hour ago, davisev5225 said:

From where I sit, your reply looks like more hostility with a dash of passive-aggressiveness and snark.  "Charitable" is not at all an accurate description.  You could have said "I appreciate your apology" and left it at that.  Instead, you chose to go on the attack... again.

 

Not true. I was actually a lot more irritated by your condescension than my comment revealed. I did hold back from what I really thought and wanted to write something positive because maybe you are so oblivious to your perception issues that this was the best you could do. But, I wasn't going to make myself a liar over it.