Devious Devices - Integration 4.3a (2019-09-10)

[Guest]

On 8/19/2018 at 4:51 AM, crz555 said:

Hi my games always crash and ı have all the REQUIREMENTS  what should ı do ? any idea ?

Does the crash happen before you load a game (menu), when you try to load a game, or some time after you load your game?

[Zaflis]

With tons of mods and animations you need 2 more mods to prevent crashes: 
https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/72725/
https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/85443/

The latter chances the game single-threaded during load. There was some issues that multithread was causing, and at some point i was crashing on load repeatedly 3 times in a row.. when i stopped trying more and installed that mod - fixed.

[Lupine00]

I recently experienced the newer pony bit + harness (fancy looking gags). They look very nice.

 

Sadly, they are set to remove food. Sure. They're not ring gags, and given the animations there are I can see you wouldn't want to use them for sex (even though in the real world, they don't block oral sex at all).

 

It's particularly implausible that the pony bridle stops drinking (plainly they do not in real life, though surely it is awkward), while an armbinder + blindfold don't present any obstacle to eating and drinking at all (while they would be quite a problem, in reality).

 

The food and drink removal makes them unwearable long-term in combination with needs mods - and yet long term pony play scenarios seem quite logical (SLUTS-type situations and others).

 

Yes, there is a dialog to beg for food/drink, but there isn't one on my follower, which makes little sense, as my follower can carry food.

And there's nobody else to ask out in the wilderness. Maybe it should be there, and maybe it's not intended.

 

Speaking more broadly...

Sure, you could split eating and drinking to be controlled individually by different devices, and that might make sense now and again.

In my mind, the only gags that should block either food or drink completely are the "complete silencer" super-heavy-bondage options (big panel gags, posture collars with built-in gag and muzzle, gas-mask if it's locked in place, etc).

 

(And with some of these devices it is technically still possible to suck up drink through your nose, though horrid - but I'd probably take it over anal rape by draugr any day).

 

I won't even ask where you keep all that gear when you're running around naked... Let alone how you get to it with your arms in a sleeve that tight, and possibly wearing mittens too  

 

So...

 

Could we simply get a blanket DD-wide option to disable the entire "no food/drink" mechanic?

It is simply endless grief with needs mods, and not everyone wants to make that either/or choice.

 

Why not leave it up to the player, or other mods to handle? If the player chooses?

 

DD simply doesn't handle this with any nuance, and probably can't - ever - due to its entirely reasonable lack of support for other mods, and the exact combination of numerous possible devices in play.

 

 

This would allow players (or mods) to impose their own rules instead of having to console items off, that would be fun to leave on.

[Lupine00]

I went to make a new armbinder mesh recently and ran against an issue.

 

Is there a UUNP compatible mesh that has the arms in the armbinder position to use as a body-slidable reference for modelling?

 

The only way I can see to work now is a combination of using an existing armbinder as a reference, and then trial and error for strap-fit. It's less than ideal, and surely a problem that others solved long ago?

[_SpaceHamster_]

25 minutes ago, Lupine00 said:

I went to make a new armbinder mesh recently and ran against an issue.

 

Is there a UUNP compatible mesh that has the arms in the armbinder position to use as a body-slidable reference for modelling?

 

The only way I can see to work now is a combination of using an existing armbinder as a reference, and then trial and error for strap-fit. It's less than ideal, and surely a problem that others solved long ago?

Uhhh, I think I can help you with this?
I should be able to export an unp body with armbinder and elbowbinder positions in 3ds Max.
Give me 10-20 minutes.

 

EDIT:

Made .nif file of UUNP body using preset UNP with the arms in armbinder position.

I could have given the arms in elbowbinder position though. We need more elbowbinder models ?

ArmbinderMesh.nif

[Lupine00]

That is helpful. Thanks a lot.

[Dracoluminos]

Pet suit won't work for me. Its equipped but no animation. Reinstalled DDi, DDa, DDx, ran bodyslide and build them morphs. Everything else works just fine

[Lupine00]

You mention bodyslide, but not FNIS... Surely, didn't forget FNIS, did you? Probably not. Maybe some other animation is conflicting somehow?

[neosuduno]

I mostly like how I can choose the settings for escaping devices, but I still wish there were the old number values. I know that it was made to simplify the system, but the slider system over separate values felt like it was taking away options. Basically, saying "you want to customize your experience, TOO BAD!"

 

The newer sliders are much better then when it was all one slider, but I feel that having Unlock failure and key-break and struggle failures being separate values would be much more fun, and much less frustrating.

[LazyBoot]

40 minutes ago, neosuduno said:

I mostly like how I can choose the settings for escaping devices, but I still wish there were the old number values. I know that it was made to simplify the system, but the slider system over separate values felt like it was taking away options. Basically, saying "you want to customize your experience, TOO BAD!"

 

The newer sliders are much better then when it was all one slider, but I feel that having Unlock failure and key-break and struggle failures being separate values would be much more fun, and much less frustrating.

It was also done to enable different difficulty devices. So the new settings are modifiers on the chances specified in the devices.

[Slagblah]

6 hours ago, neosuduno said:

I mostly like how I can choose the settings for escaping devices, but I still wish there were the old number values. I know that it was made to simplify the system, but the slider system over separate values felt like it was taking away options. Basically, saying "you want to customize your experience, TOO BAD!"

 

The newer sliders are much better then when it was all one slider, but I feel that having Unlock failure and key-break and struggle failures being separate values would be much more fun, and much less frustrating.

Yeah, I thought the exact same thing and made the same suggestion a while ago (specifically related to unlock and escape/struggle, which should not use the same difficulty setting). It's easy enough to code it that way and I even customized it myself for personal use. And having been using it this way for some time now, I can confirm that it plays much better. Oh, and I made it so that when your arms are bound, it uses the Escape difficulty rather than Unlock (if you have the relevant key, though, it averages the two difficulties and uses that value). Also note the rearrangement of the Devices MCM page in the attached screenshot that, with the new settings, fits nicely on one page.

 

Good to know others have the same concern(s), though.

 

Spoiler

 

[Ouragon]

I tried to run fnis after i install this mod, but the fnis just stuck when it says "All Anim Lists scanned. Generating Behavior Files". And it just stopped working. Any idea why? thanks

[Laura]

11 minutes ago, Ouragon said:

I tried to run fnis after i install this mod, but the fnis just stuck when it says "All Anim Lists scanned. Generating Behavior Files". And it just stopped working. Any idea why? thanks

Does it crash or freeze there? How much time did you give it? Because you're supposed to get that message.

[Ouragon]

10 minutes ago, Comrade Laura 'Lokomootje' said:

Does it crash or freeze there? How much time did you give it? Because you're supposed to get that message.

after i get the message, it freezes. After a while, it crashed and stopped working.

[JR42]

On 8/24/2018 at 4:04 AM, Kimy said:

Seriously, next time just TALK to me, ok?

 

https://github.com/DeviousDevices/DDi/commit/30afa8681b2b3056c4d2e96fb0cbd012efb80439

On 8/23/2018 at 2:56 PM, Kimy said:

Constructive criticism goes a long way, you know?

 

Let me try to explain it here, with some concrete suggestions at the end.

 

Compared to other games, running modded Skyrim requires a huge effort in installation, customization, patching, trial and error and sweat.
 

Spoiler

 

Imagine someone loves DD and wants to play with the mod while also adventuring. To get to that point, even the basic summary is long:

 

To fix some bug with the vanilla Skyrim adventuring part, you install things like USLEEP, Bug Fixes, Crash fixes, Enchantment Reload fix, Brawling Fix, Eyes Fix and dozens more.
To fix the vanilla UI, you install things like SkyUI, MoreHUD, Better Dialogue Controls, Better MessageBox Controls and dozens more.
To fix vanilla meshes and textures, you install things like SMIM, STEP Optimized Textures, Enhanced this and that and dozens more.
To fix some gameplay issues, you install Trap Fixes, CRF, The Choice is Yours, Smart Souls, Follower Trap Safety and dozens more.
To improve the AI, you install things like Immersive Citizens, Crime Overhaul, RDO and dozens more.
To improve performance, you re-mip and optimize vanilla and mod textures with DDSOpt and Ordenator.
To tune the graphics performance, you manually edit the INI files, and install and customize ENBoost.
To fix some of the balance issues with vanilla Skyrim, you install something like PerMa or Requiem.
To add DD to the mix, you figure out which mods work nicely both with each other and with adventuring, and install them.
To fix incompatibilities, you track down patches, and patches for the patches.
To make sure mods work together, you make a manual TES5Edit patch to combine e.g. the textures of one mod with the gameplay aspects of another.
To make sure items fit, you install and run BodySlide.
To make sure animations work, you install and run FNIS.
To make sure item lists from different mods work together, you make a Bashed patch, or run ReProccer or Reqtificator or something similar.
To check if things work well together, you run Skyrim, figure out what is wrong, and go back to patching.
Finally, after everything seems to work, you can begin to customize the settings of each mod in the MCM ingame.

 

This is an absolutely huge effort, that can take days, compared to other simpler games that run fine as vanilla.

 

 

So the audience of DD contains a lot more power users with technical know-how and a desire to fine-tune things compared to that of a casual game.

 

For comparison, let's look at the preferences menu for a casual game like Minesweeper:

 

 

There are simple settings like Beginner, Intermediate, Expert, so basic users can just select a simple preset they like.

But there's also a custom option below where power users can set the exact height and width of the arena (independently!), and the exact number of mines.

 

Why would anyone want to have unequal height and width? A single combined setting should be enough.

Why not? If users want to customize their Minesweeper experience, why not let them?

They might screw up the settings and e.g. set too many bombs.

That's why there are the simple Beginner etc presets for basic users to fall back to. But if somebody wants to try something weird with a ton of mines, why not let them?

They could just use a more difficult preset. Why would anyone want to set up e.g. a 9x7 arena with 11 mines instead of the standard 8x8 with 10? There's almost no difference.

Why limit the options unnecessarily? If customization is not difficult to provide, and some players want it, why not?

 

This argument ended with one of the most successful companies in the world deciding to offer essentially complete customization for a casual game.

 

Skyrim is a lot more complicated, and the average Skyrim player is a lot more hardcore. So if anything, things should be more customizable in Skyrim, no? Indeed, you can customize if you want Dark Brushed Tankards or Pewter Tankards (who cares?), which direction you want butterfly wings to point (who cares?), should Ice Spikes be 30% or 50% sized (who cares?), and a billion other tiny things, most of which have no gameplay relevance whatsoever.

 

In a DD adventure game, the absolutely most gameplay-critical settings are the mechanics of getting stuck in, and escaping from devices. If anything should be customizable in detail, it's this: letting players fine-tune the difficulty means the difference between an amazing gameplay experience, and unpleasant frustration (e.g. too easy in one way and too hard in another aspect).

 

I'm a developer, and while I don't want to share too much about real life here, I will say that the only time I refused to include more customization options when multiple users requested it was when what they wanted was literally impossible. Even if I'm not sure what the exact merit of adding a separate option for something is, if people seem to want it, there is often a real reason behind it that they just fail to properly articulate. In that case, I could put up a wall and fight them for a proper explanation (and be seen as an enemy), or I could trust them and spend the 10 minutes or so to simply add a checkbox or a slider (which makes people love it and tell their colleagues about how great it is, free promo, satisfaction, good things). I think the choice is obvious.

 

But wouldn't that result in a clutter of a million confusing options? The solution is that the default view only has a few basic options, just a few buttons. Advanced users can access more customization by delving into things like "Advanced xxx configuration", which opens as a separate window, with a warning about not messing with it unless you know what you're doing. Basic users can just use the basic presets without getting overwhelmed, advanced users can happily fine-tune everything, everyone is satisfied.

 

On 8/23/2018 at 5:00 PM, Kimy said:

So, go ahead and try me! Tell me which exact settings should be separated from the three existing controls. And WHY you think they should be separate. Because I only grouped together what makes sense grouping together.

This is an invitation to a pattern along these lines:

User: I want A and B to be separate because I like A but not B.

Dev: No, that doesn't make sense, A is very similar to B.

User: No, I like A but not B.

Dev: Why?

User: I don't know... A is a good challenge but B is just bad...

Dev: They are very similar. I did it logically, and you don't make any sense.

User: Throws rotten tomatoes and spite at Dev

 

As someone who apparently likes BDSM, are you surprised that some people have unusual preferences that they feel passionate about, but can't articulate exactly why?

 

On 8/23/2018 at 5:00 PM, Kimy said:

 

I still believe that most users would set these groups to similar values anyway. If you don't like cooldowns, you're likely to dislike ALL of them, no?

 

If somebody somewhere feels strongly about, let's say, unlock cooldown vs lock shield timer, why deny the ability to adjust them separately? Why would anyone feel strongly about that? Why does it matter? If they do, they do. Why not just let them and make them happy, if it's easy to add an option, instead of getting into an "I won't allow you to have that" adversarial pattern?

 

As a concrete example, I would like to set things up so that lock jam is very rare (but not impossible), RepairJammedLock is quite difficult, but EscapeChance is relatively easy. This way normally things would go fairly smoothly, but occasionally there would be the rare lock jam event that would be a challenge to deal with. Maybe you think that doesn't make sense, or it wouldn't be fun for you. That's okay, people like different things. The question is, would you deny me the ability to try it out? It is currently impossible to customize things in the way I described because of the merged sliders.

 

Remember, in much simpler games, players can customize everything game-related. And in Skyrim, people can and will customize an absolutely immense number of even gameplay-irrelevant minor things. So why is it weird that some people want to customize in detail the most critical gameplay-related aspect of DD-modded Skyrim? Why is it bad? Why would you fight against it?

 

As a developer, there are things worth fighting for, like compatibility, consistency, stability and so on. If you look around for user feedback on games, a consistent pattern is that adding options for customization is praised ("These devs are insanely awesome"), and taking away customization options is reviled ("Why the fuck would you do this? You're supposed to implement more options not remove them."). So, of all things, it's mind-boggling to see a developer apparently pick "fewer customization sliders" as the main battle she wants to fight.

 

When the granular customization options in DD3 were gone in DD4.0 I saw the negative feedback and thought detailed settings would quickly return. But you seemed to fight tooth and nail against it, dragging your heels, finally adding back slightly more detailed settings in 4.1, which then received a positive response. But many people still complain about the options in DD4. So a few days ago you added the jam lock checkbox to the beta, which, again, received a positive response. Step back and take a bird's eye view, and do you see the pattern?

 

On 8/23/2018 at 5:00 PM, Kimy said:

All you said was "I don't like how DD4 does it." That's honestly not very constructive. So, go ahead and try me! Tell me which exact settings should be separated from the three existing controls. And WHY you think they should be separate. Because I only grouped together what makes sense grouping together. So convince me that some of these should be separate and I will consider it.

 

Maybe you think three sliders is enough, and maybe for some users it is. But players like to customize their experience to their taste, and Skyrim players especially so. And when it comes to the most important component of their gameplay experience, this is even more true! Take a bird's eye view please. Why not just let them and make them happy? Why would you instead insist on getting into an adversarial pattern where DD fans need to "defeat" you with arguments so that you maybe, please Mistress, allow them to customize their gameplay as they like?

 

The people who talk to you and complain are fans of DD, or they wouldn't even bother writing. They don't want you as an adversary, they don't want to argue with you. Maybe they can't articulate well why they want to adjust this setting separately from that. Instead of saying "no, your argument is invalid, you can't have that", why not trust your users, your fans? "I don't see why you'd want a separate option for that, but you probably have your reasons, and it's not a big deal to implement, so here it is." And people will be sending love letters to you, and recommending your mods everywhere.

 

So, a suggestion:

 

- Put a button on the DDI MCM settings page, call it Advanced Settings, or Nitpicker Mode if you want to discourage its use.

- When a user clicks on it, present a warning message window saying that you can adjust everything more logically with fewer sliders on the main page, and that messing with the advanced settings could result in an unpleasant, unbalanced gameplay experience.

- Let the user return to the main basic settings page if they click "Use More Logical Sliders" (or just Cancel).

- Take the user to the advanced settings page if they click a button titled something like "I Understand the Risks".

- On the advanced settings page, have separate sliders for everything: EscapeChance, RepairJammedLock, LockAccessDifficulty, KeyBreak, LockJamChance, and all the various cooldowns individually.

- Have an "Override Combined Sliders with Advanced Settings" checkbox on the advanced settings page. It is unticked by default. When it is ticked, the advanced individual sliders adjust the relevant parameters instead of the 3 combined sliders.

- When the "Override Combined Sliders with Advanced Settings" checkbox is ticked, grey out the corresponding combined sliders, and set them so that on a mouseover event the hint text below is a message telling the user to go untick the Advanced Settings checkbox to re-enable these combined sliders.

- To avoid having to make multiple if blocks dealing with advanced vs basic settings when it comes to events, you could make it so that there's a set of variables corresponding to the individual sliders. The values of these variables are set in the menu depending on the state of the "Override Combined Sliders with Advanced Settings" checkbox: if it is ticked, then the advanced sliders provide the values for the variables. If it is unticked then the three main combined sliders in the menu are used to set the values for the same large set of individual variables.

 

Thank you for reading and for your consideration.
John R

 

 

P.S.: I'm not familiar with Papyrus or CK but I'm a programmer. If you don't want to implement my suggestion, but don't dislike it, I could try to make a Github pull request, if you point me in the right direction. It would take me probably 20x+ longer to do it, and showing me code examples and where the relevant scripts are might be more work for you than to just do it yourself, but I thought I'd offer, to make it clear that I'm sincere in wanting DD to be as amazing as possible.

[Laura]

15 hours ago, Ouragon said:

after i get the message, it freezes. After a while, it crashed and stopped working.

Which version are you using? What have you already tried? Is this the first time that happend?

[Zaflis]

Has anyone thought of adding ragdoll effect for high heels and blindfolded tripping? I first saw it in action with Realistic Needs mod, when character is decently drunk she falls down and sometimes slides a little bit on the ground. It did seem pretty good in my opinion, and it makes it different every time. For tripping you only have 1 animation and it does become a little boring after a dozen times.

[xtrange988]

What's up with this mod with Zaz and the animation limit?

 

Like, I'm trying to lower my animation count to be able to start a new game. Zaz animations aren't better than most of the new SLAL packs and every quest mod is Zaz dependent.

 

I've tried the DD fix but does nothing for me. I really need to go under 10k anims? There's a place where I can get older versions of DD and Zaz?

 

 

[iceta]

do the quest require the dlc or something because  i don't have them and the mcm "part" is completely empty.

[SleepyJim]

1 hour ago, iceta said:

do the quest require the dlc or something because  i don't have them and the mcm "part" is completely empty.

If you mean the quests page of the MCM is empty, that's normal with this latest version. The quests are no longer included in the mod but the page is still there, just blank.

[Lupine00]

On 8/27/2018 at 1:43 PM, JR42 said:

So the audience of DD contains a lot more power users with technical know-how and a desire to fine-tune things compared to that of a casual game.

 

For comparison, let's look at the preferences menu for a casual game like Minesweeper:

I really like this post. A good argument, beautifully presented (and so colorful). But by presentation here, I mean clear, logical reasoning and a trail of points that are easy to follow.

 

Personally, I am on the fence over customisation.

 

The argument against it was ... I believe ... not so much that users didn't want it, but that mod-devs complained that DD was too much of an unknown quantity in how it behaved. They could make some special key, and then the key-break code would kick in, inappopriately, and destroy this one-of-a-kind key, or it would slip from your mittened fingers to be lost forever and break their quest ... or something like that. And because they'd never turned on key break, or hardcore mittens in their game, they weren't even aware there was a potential problem they needed to code around. And then the problems never got fixed and ... so on.

This is a better reason than simply saying that the old customisation confused users.

Spoiler

 

Ironic really, that DCL Cursed Collar falls prey to this exact kind of bug, where you can "escape" your inescapable armbinder due to sharp-objects mechanic - though it isn't actually removed, it still tells you that it is.

 

 

 

The old 3.X customisation confused users because there were two kinds of escape mechanic with no clue as to when one was used, and when the other was used, and other nonsense, not because it offered choices.

The DD menus have always been fairly small compared to a behemoth like DCL. DCL is twenty times more confusing than DD, and people are always looking for more customisation there, not less.

 

Look at SL Adventures? It's basically taking a couple of features from DCL and adding a massive MCM onto just those - and it still doesn't have all the options it should have

 

But in think the poster has won me over. I'd rather have "presets" that you can pick, and when you pick them, you can see the percentages and numbers for all the different bits and pieces change, and if you want, you can adjust those individually.

 

But TBH, I often just set it on easiest now, because otherwise escape seems all but impossible. Then if something seems too easy, I turn it up ... but that doesn't happen much. But if I could see the numbers, I'd probably set it a lot harder for some values. OTOH, key-break just annoys me. I'd rather items that require multiple keys instead. I guess that's an example of a very personal preference.

 

If I want a hard game, I'll leave the defaults except for key break, but I have no idea if that is actually hard, or really supposed to be easy ... but I don't seem to escape from much, and the frequency of "events" that halt movement and lock controls are highly intrusive. I think seeing the numbers would help. Generally.

 

Global presets for all those "lock controls" events would be a blessing, as trying to figure which one to turn down to stop a particular animation playing for the four-billionth time can sometimes be a bit of a lengthy process, and sometimes leaves me thinking that there simply is no control value to moderate some animations.

[Zaflis]

On 9/3/2018 at 1:38 AM, xtrange988 said:

What's up with this mod with Zaz and the animation limit?

 

Like, I'm trying to lower my animation count to be able to start a new game. Zaz animations aren't better than most of the new SLAL packs and every quest mod is Zaz dependent.

 

I've tried the DD fix but does nothing for me. I really need to go under 10k anims? There's a place where I can get older versions of DD and Zaz?

 

Use FNIS XXL version. It allows far more than 10k animations.

[DonQuiWho]

24 minutes ago, Lupine00 said:

  Reveal hidden contents

 

Ironic really, that DCL Cursed Collar falls prey to this exact kind of bug, where you can "escape" your inescapable armbinder due to sharp-objects mechanic - though it isn't actually removed, it still tells you that it is.

 

 

 

I think seeing the numbers would help. Generally.

 

 

I can live with what there is now because, even if I haven't a clue at times what some of the settings mean, I find the challenge of beating the system very satisfying, if only for the reason that I've managed to outwit Kimy et al

 

But I'd go with 'seeing the numbers' as being an improvement  ?

 

 

[Lupine00]

Here's something I originally posted on the DCL forum, (as part of something else). I think it's more relevant to bring it up here.

 

Are we going to see a new DD with built-in factions to drive dialog and other mod functionality?

It doesn't need to DO anything much with them, it just needs to have them available, seeing as its an ESM that most devious modders can rely is present.

Personally, I'd love to see a replacement for all those badly designed ZBF factions that lacked any coherent documentation, and that nobody uses (except maybe SD+?).

 

 

What factions would we want if they are being added?

 

My personal motivation is for dialog conditions to be able to trivially recognise the player state, and past events, and respond to those. This is a basic of RPG design - the game must remember the player's actions (good or bad, win or lose) and commemorate them - if we are to create an illusion of consequence.

 

However, they can be used for much more than dialog, particularly the obvious ones like "Slave" or "Submissive."

 

Isn't it better to provide a rich framework, with something as cheap as factions, because once a mod is written without them, it's less likely they'll be added later, and if they aren't there to start with, they can't be added, or will be duplicated. Same argument as keywords really.

 

I came up with the following suggestions as a starting point:

• Dominant - dominant actors go in this faction (they enjoy domination, doesn't mean they are doing it)
• Submissive - submissive actors go in this faction (they enjoy submission, doesn't mean they are slaves)
• BondageLover - actors who like to be in bondage go in this faction
• BondageMaster - actors who like to put others in bondage go in this faction
• Reluctant - actors who say no, and deny they like things that they like (see other factions), but will cooperate if pressed
• Slave - actors who are slaves go in this faction
• Master - actors who are slave-masters go in this faction
• Slaver - actors who like to buy slaves go in this faction
• TopSlave - actors who are slaves who like to or are expected to, boss other slaves about go in this faction (this is mainly a job, not a disposition) - use this for slaves that are required to discipline other slaves
• Broken - actors who have negligable willpower and will do whatever a dominant type tells them.
• SexAddict - actors who cannot resist sex
• SkoomaAddict - actors who have acquired an addiction to skooma, specifically
• LactacidAddict - actors addicted to lactacid, specifically, and considered distinct from skooma
• RubberFan - actors who like rubber, to wear, or to put others in - see their other factions for how they exhibit this
• LeatherFan - actors who like leather, to wear or to put others in
• ChainFan - actors who like chains, etc.
• PonyFan - actors who like pony action (costumes and carts, but not necessarily sex with horses)
• BeastSexFan - actors who like sex with dogs, horses, and other domestic beasts
• MonsterSexFan - actors who like sex with nasty things, like chaurus, spiders, trolls, draugr, etc. (maybe this needs to be finer grained?)
• VampireFan - actors who are hot for vampires, and probably want to be one - may in fact already be one and get off on the fact
• WerewolfFan - see above, but for werewolves - the Companions, basically
• MilkFan - actors who like boobs and milking - see their other factions for their role in this
• MilkMaid - actor who produces lots of milk, whether they like it or not (see above for whether maid is willing)

 

The above are suitable for PC, general NPCs and followers. They are intended to drive dialog options, immersion text, comments, and perhaps quest choices.

They provide a simple all-or-nothing approach that you can easily test in Conditions, unlike the vague floating scales in CD, or the fast-moving DF willpower.

It's quite a few factions as a baseline, but anyone who doesn't care about them can simply ignore them - after all, they're just factions.

 

However, simply by putting PC or actors in these factions, mods can cross-communicate all kinds of info with zero-dependencies on anything except DD, and in a way that is really trivial to test in dialog conditions.

 

ZBF clearly intended to do this, but the factions it provides are ill-documented, poorly defined, and narrowly focused on simplistic master-slave relationships rather than the fluid come-and-go of many PC-NPC interactions. To be fair, ZBF was really only ever designed to suit the needs of one developer...

 

 

Some additional, more implementation specific factions might be:

• Caged
• InFurniture
• VisiblyBound
• VisiblyChaste
• -- Yes, I know there are other ways to detect a gag in dialog --
• SpeechImpaired - gagged and speech is still sometimes possible (gag talk)
• SpeechBlocked - gagged and speech is stopped entirely
• OralBlocked - gagged and oral sex is stopped entirely (often set in combination with above)
• FoodBlocked - gagged and cannot eat
• DrinkBlocked - gagged and cannot drink
• VisiblyFrustrated - actor is sexually frustrated to the point any observer can see it
• Starving - food level critical - avoids having to know how a specific mod tracks hunger
• Thirsty - fluid level critical - as above
• Whipped - actor has been recently beaten, showing visible wounds, same purpose as above
• SkoomaWithdrawal
• LactacidWithdrawal
• PublicSlut-<hold> - join this if the actor has been seen publically slutting around in the named hold
• PublicWhore-<hold> - join this if actor has been seen whoring in the named hold
• PublicRaped-<hold> - join this if actor has been seen being raped in the named hold
• PublicBeastiality-<hold> - join this if the actor has been seen having sex with dogs, horses, goats, chickens, etc, in the named hold
• PublicSlave-<hold> - join this if the actor has EVER been publically known to be enslaved (not just collared) in the hold
• LegalSlave-<hold> - join this if the actor is legally considered a slave in the named hold
• MilkSlave - actor subjugated to the level of a human cow, who acts, and is treated, like an animal
• MilkBound - really wants to be milked somehow
• GiantBoobs - has boobs of remarkably large size
• SkoomaRavaged - actors has used far too much skooma for far too long, and visibly shows it
• Ransomworthy - actors that are considered valuable booty, and can be ransomed back to relatives, the Jarl, the PC, etc. Such prisoners might not be abused, but would be kept securely (see captured princess for an example), and dialog can easily be adjusted to acknowledge this.

Some of these could/should actually bet set by DD (VisiblyBound, VisiblyChaste, SpeechImpaired), but the rest would be there in the hope that other mods would pick up on them.

 

It's pretty obvious how these could be used in general dialog conditions, by any mod, for amusing effect. A few simple factions like this can let any mod be surprisingly bondage aware, and do away with the current nonsensical dialogs we so often see now, in mods as varied as Sexist Guards, PoP, DCL, DF, etc.

 

 

Also, obviates the need for an over-complicated, somewhat unusable system like Sexual Fame, which does not deliver coding bang-for-buck. And if there was a sexual fame mod that simply helped update the factions, all the better, but I think the idea is that any mod that definitively knows a state can set you into (or out of) it.

 

e.g.  if DCL runs a public rape on you in Markarth, it knows for sure that you should be in PublicRaped-Reach, so it could/should add you.

You would never leave that faction. Once seen, it can't be unseen, and NPCs can remember and comment on it forever.

 

Some of these things can already be tracked through effects, but then they become mod specific, rather than something a shared resource might provide.

And yes, DD has a way to check if the PC is gagged, but it's fiddly to use in dialogs compared to a faction test.

 

 

By providing a simple UI, the player could set the "fan" factions on the PC, or possibly NPCs too. This would give a simple, discrete and easy to use version of the bondage preferences system that CD has - which never really seemed to do much. Never have an arbitrary integer where a boolean will suffice!

 

 

The various gagged flags above are tentative, in that it's not what people use at the moment, but it would be much simpler for developers, and splits by design, the different functions of the gag right from the start, so is cleaner. This puts some extra load on DD to update the factions when gags come on and off, but that's hardly a great burden - and can probably be done with a a small change to the generic gag script.

 

 

LegalSlave is a concept I'm really interested in right now.

 

It distinguishes neatly between a free person who got tied up by villains vs actors that are known to be slaves by the local populace, and are not allowed to wander freely without their master (or suitable restraints that prevent them running off and mark them a slave), they will be picked up by the guards and returned to their rightful owner, or sold off by the Jarl. The idea of facial tattoos or scarring might work for this. Very medieval. I'm building functionality around this, though I may never release it. I can imagine that DF, or LAL, etc, could easily incorporate it.

[xtrange988]

3 hours ago, Zaflis said:

Use FNIS XXL version. It allows far more than 10k animations.

 

I'm using FNIS XXL already, whenever I load a new game with DD+Zaz the game crashes.

 

I need to find a minimal version of both DD and Zaz with fewer animations or delete all those animations included in SLAL packs that I dislike, no idea how to do that  

 

Edit: NVM, found how to do it: