Devious Devices - Captured Dreams Shop v4.15 - files removed

[Majin Buu]

Thanks for your great work on this Vel.
Soooo.....Anyone wanna start from scratch and build their own version of this? ? It's a good mod, just needed to be brought up to code (Compatible with DDv4).
Or make a patch to make current items compatible with DDv4.

[wooaa]

Thank you so much for creating this fantastic mod.

[Veladarius]

6 hours ago, Kimy said:

Thanks for clearing up the trainloads of fake news that were getting spread in this thread. I have no idea why people, even those bearing a green tag, feel the need to speak up and spreading unverified information and pure speculation about things they never were involved with in any shape or fashion, and thus cannot possibly have any clue about. Throwing temper tantrums over things they don't even understand, is what kindergartners normally do, and those shouldn't be on LL.

 

Also, people need to stop pestering Min about DDI. If people don't even know that Min passed on DD to me more than two years ago, they need to shut up and get informed before getting involved and just creating more confusion.

 

Generally, I am getting tired of people blaming me or DD for them quitting work on their mod. If people are getting burnt-out and rather want to do something else, that's fine. But blaming others and making up fake facts as a cheap excuse for that, is lame. CDS didn't see any significant updates in absolute ages, so blaming the VERY recently decided migration of ZAP 7 assets into DD for that is nothing short of laughable. Not that it would be a valid reason anyway, because had this guy asked any of the people actually involved with the decision-making instead of spreading lies, we could have told them that ZAP 7 will absolutely NOT get taken down.

The information came from someone that I trusted quite a bit and was part of my testing team and while talking with him all of this he came back with quotes from you about various things we were discussing so I had no reason not to believe him. All of this was supposed first hand knowledge of what was going on and he said he was involved in the discussions between you, ZAZ, himself and another modder about these plans. He also personally said he wanted to see ZAP go away for good and agreed with everything that was going to happen. With the information I was told it would have been impossible for me to maintain compatibility with both v3 and v4 as I was intending and I believe I was being pushed into updating CD to v4 by him.

 

I did ask Min at one point if I could diverge v3 once. He asked you, you said no and that was the last I brought it up and that was quite some time ago. If you are still getting asked about it I have not been the one talking to Min about it and have no knowledge of it. I asked Min because he was the initial creator and did not know how much ownership of the mod he handed over. Had I known he had handed it over entirely I would not have asked.

 

I had 2 reasons for quitting, the first was based on the lies told to me which would not let me keep CD compatible with both v3 and v4 without a huge amount of work (which I was no longer capable of doing) and the other reason was my inability to get into the proper frame of mind to work on the mod often enough and felt it would be best at this point to end it rather than keep people waiting for an update that would never be released.

 

I am rather sure the person who told me all of this knows that whatever working relationship we had here is done. In the end I made myself look like an idiot because of his misinformation and blamed people for things that were not true and for that I apologize to everyone for causing all of this.

 

 

 

I am done modding but I will still answer any questions on issues with CD as I always have though.

[galgat]

14 hours ago, ZaZ said:

 

Don't worry about it too much, just take care of your health.

I wasn't even present when things happened as they did ....... I still don't know half the story.  But it should be resolved now. 

ZAP assets were pretty much free to use right from the start...... and I'm pretty lax with permissions. With the current integration plan it should be fine. 

 

Cheers

   The biggest problem I see is trying to run both zaz 7 or 8 with the new DDI which I am told will have zaz animations, and more being added to it, as the last DDI update forced me to remove a large quantity of my sex animations to run it.

 

   Now if I try to run both because and author calls for zaz 7 or 8, and also DDI, which never has any older version left to download and maybe HR as well, and calls for certain animation for many of its scenes to be playable. I will quite often double some animations, and the game count limit of animations will be quite restrictive. Causing a great juggling act every time I wish to try a new mod.

 

   As DDI grows, and absorbs other mods into it, as in the case of Heretical resources the shiny cat suit's, and now zaz and so on which some mods also want both DDI, and Heretical resources, and zaz 8 or 7, HR because not all of HR is in DDI. It will severely limit the number of sex animation, ( which for me are the most important ) .

 

Also many mod's ask for certain animations to be ran with there mod. again the juggling of these animations will be very troublesome.

 

Many people have trouble just getting sexlab, and everything running with out having infinity tit's, or invisible Armor and clothing. This juggling act that will be upon us is going to make playing mod's a lot more difficult, especially for any new comers that may wish to try some adult mod's.

 

   I have always felt that smaller, less obtrusive resources are far better than one all encumbering beast. But that is just me.  I like a more modular control of thing, and less of a one size fits all approach.

 

   I mean we could let DDI absorb sexlab, and sexlab arousal, Creature framework, skyUI, and UIextention, Hey it might not be a bad Idea.  But as I said I would prefer a more modular Resource approach.

 

   And of course compatibility with older mods is the A-number one biggest problem.

[ZaZ]

55 minutes ago, galgat said:

   The biggest problem I see is trying to run both zaz 7 or 8 with the new DDI which I am told will have zaz animations, and more being added to it, as the last DDI update forced me to remove a large quantity of my sex animations to run it.

 

   Now if I try to run both because and author calls for zaz 7 or 8, and also DDI, which never has any older version left to download and maybe HR as well, and calls for certain animation for many of its scenes to be playable. I will quite often double some animations, and the game count limit of animations will be quite restrictive. Causing a great juggling act every time I wish to try a new mod.

 

   As DDI grows, and absorbs other mods into it, as in the case of Heretical resources the shiny cat suit's, and now zaz and so on which some mods also want both DDI, and Heretical resources, and zaz 8 or 7, HR because not all of HR is in DDI. It will severely limit the number of sex animation, ( which for me are the most important ) .

 

Also many mod's ask for certain animations to be ran with there mod. again the juggling of these animations will be very troublesome.

 

Many people have trouble just getting sexlab, and everything running with out having infinity tit's, or invisible Armor and clothing. This juggling act that will be upon us is going to make playing mod's a lot more difficult, especially for any new comers that may wish to try some adult mod's.

 

   I have always felt that smaller, less obtrusive resources are far better than one all encumbering beast. But that is just me.  I like a more modular control of thing, and less of a one size fits all approach.

 

   I mean we could let DDI absorb sexlab, and sexlab arousal, Creature framework, skyUI, and UIextention, Hey it might not be a bad Idea.  But as I said I would prefer a more modular Resource approach.

 

   And of course compatibility with older mods is the A-number one biggest problem.

 

Down the line the animation limit will reach its threshold for sure.....

And its not only because of the animations from the above mods, there are a lot of new packs coming and in slowly but surely it will peak at some point (or already has in some cases with instabilities )

I don't see a solution at this point which is one of the reasons discouraging me to return to Skyim.

 

Between ZAP 7 and ZAP 8 from a Technical point of view there should be no issues. Use one or the other (Because only new stuff was added the code never changed) there were some minor bugs but nothing game breaking etc

 

Going for a modular approach would be nice if people can be convinced. But at this time permissions for the ZAP Assets to be used as needed is best I could do. (Mind you ZAP assets were free to use within LL right from the start) 

 

But eventually with animation limit reaching its peak , in the future people would have choose what they want to install. 

[Reesewow]

2 hours ago, galgat said:

   The biggest problem I see is trying to run both zaz 7 or 8 with the new DDI which I am told will have zaz animations, and more being added to it, as the last DDI update forced me to remove a large quantity of my sex animations to run it.

While off-topic to CD obviously - if you found DD 4.1 severely limited your sex animations I'd highly recommend trying out the latest Dev versions of DDi.  Tyrant did some deep digging on the AA usage of the latest version and made some recommendations on streamlining them to reduce DDi's footprint significantly, and those ideas have been implemented on the dev github.  Obviously use with caution like any dev version, but my FNIS output numbers were reduced significantly by swapping to the dev version (details on the dev thread) and I haven't had any issues with it yet.  I haven't actually tested if that would let me run a crazy setup like all of Funnybiz's animations + ZAP 8.0+ with DD, but it may let you add back some of the SLAL packs you needed to strip out.

 

None of what I just said changes the long term realities of course - there are hard limits in Skyrim's engine that people will need to work around, and as long as animators keep animating and modders keep modding it will just get easier and easier to go over those limits.

[ItsYaBoi1738]

Hey @Veladarius I understand you have said you do not want the mod worked on or any changes made, however i'm curious, should someone ask your permission to update the mod for newer versions of DD or anything of the like, would you allow them to post it or have it added to the official mod, or are changes out of the question entirely? In case there's confusion, i have no idea on how to make a mod and have no plans to learn, i'm not talking about myself,  just curious as to whether there is a possibility. Cheers.

[BigOnes69]

5 hours ago, ItsYaBoi1738 said:

Hey @Veladarius I understand you have said you do not want the mod worked on or any changes made, however i'm curious, should someone ask your permission to update the mod for newer versions of DD or anything of the like, would you allow them to post it or have it added to the official mod, or are changes out of the question entirely? In case there's confusion, i have no idea on how to make a mod and have no plans to learn, i'm not talking about myself,  just curious as to whether there is a possibility. Cheers.

I would add Vel you could limit the expansion to new content by someone else. That would allow the mods story to be concluded but leave the original content in place. I am certain that a modder out there would be willing under your parameters to at least conclude the story. Your mod is far to important and integral to Lovers Lab and the beginning of the Skyrim modding for it to end abruptly. Just think about it and get well my friend. Thanks for all your work.

[Veladarius]

5 hours ago, ItsYaBoi1738 said:

Hey @Veladarius I understand you have said you do not want the mod worked on or any changes made, however i'm curious, should someone ask your permission to update the mod for newer versions of DD or anything of the like, would you allow them to post it or have it added to the official mod, or are changes out of the question entirely? In case there's confusion, i have no idea on how to make a mod and have no plans to learn, i'm not talking about myself,  just curious as to whether there is a possibility. Cheers.

I may finish the script changes to make it v4 compatible but as for making it v4 entirely but no I won't, especially after what just happened.

 

All of what just came about I believe was an attempt to make me believe I had no other choice but to convert so beyond my personal reasons for not liking v4 this has made me especially adamant about not converting. I ended up making a fool of myself because of information from someone I trusted very much because they wanted me to convert so now just on that principle alone I won't let it happen.

 

Besides, converting it to v4 would require rebuilding every device in it as well as a number of the scripts for devices as a number of them have custom effects not covered by DD (overall I have custom versions of every DD device except armbinders / yokes and multiple of many of them so it is around 200 items). Once furniture and animations are added then that would be a lot more things that would need changed.

 

I know that this does not make a number of people happy but I drew my line in concrete long ago on v4 and it isn't going away.

[Veladarius]

5 minutes ago, BigOnes69 said:

I would add Vel you could limit the expansion to new content by someone else. That would allow the mods story to be concluded but leave the original content in place. I am certain that a modder out there would be willing under your parameters to at least conclude the story. Your mod is far to important and integral to Lovers Lab and the beginning of the Skyrim modding for it to end abruptly. Just think about it and get well my friend. Thanks for all your work.

As far as story goes very little of it has been told, the setup for it has not even been completed as there are several more major npc's that have not even been introduced and the plot barely touched on. There are also several existing parts that need redone and other things added to make the experience at the shop complete. And after what just happened I don't trust anyone here anymore enough to let someone touch CD.

[BigOnes69]

3 minutes ago, Veladarius said:

As far as story goes very little of it has been told, the setup for it has not even been completed as there are several more major npc's that have not even been introduced and the plot barely touched on. There are also several existing parts that need redone and other things added to make the experience at the shop complete. And after what just happened I don't trust anyone here anymore enough to let someone touch CD.

I can understand your feeling that way but must disagree. There are a lot of good people on this website and I have witnessed this over the last ten years or so. My current profile says 2012 but the profile I lost before goes back to the beginnings of Oblivion mods on this website and I have witnessed many people helping each other out. I have witnessed moments in your development in which you identified with those people and you helped them and they you. As with any public domain involving human nature there will be those seeking power over others and just plain assholes but do not blame this on the many that have participated. Take some time and think of some of the good memories and you will find a self actualization there. That is the reward do not let a few assholes take that away.

[donttouchmethere]

Sad to hear that CD comes to an End.

I thank you Veladarius for this legendary mod!

CD draw me to LL to explore the devious side of skyrim and i learned on it the hard way to install requirements and introduced me to the hell of mod incompatibilities (side by side with DD + ZAZ + SL framework) ^^

Its like my personal devious LL primary school.

All the LL mod obsseion started than my curious PC entered the shop with wide eyes and blushed to see what is on sale (not to forget the first contact with that dominat elf lady^^)

All those CD storys are inspirational and i am with BigOnes69 quote:

" Your mod is far to important and integral to Lovers Lab and the beginning of the Skyrim modding for it to end abruptly. "

I can understand that you are tired after 5 years of evolving and adapting CD to the now ever changeing DD/ZAZ framework and your health seems not to help with that.

So get well as far as possible and find something new to live out the manic side of yours ;D

For me CD was the flagship of LLs devious side, like a promotion to come in and find out.

If you will be ever able to jump over your own shadow and you find someone thats crazy enough to adapt and evolve CD even further: dont say no!

I think stopping abruptly something you worked so long and hard for will leave you with a gap.

It might help you, to just know that what you have created is still around and kicking, to start something completly new without looking back too hard.

I wish you all the best!

[Tron91]

Whats happening to Skyrim modding? End of Days?

 

Anyone care to explain what problems arose when DD switched to v4.

 

Been running CD on SE without any problem.

[Veladarius]

1 hour ago, BigOnes69 said:

I can understand your feeling that way but must disagree. There are a lot of good people on this website and I have witnessed this over the last ten years or so. My current profile says 2012 but the profile I lost before goes back to the beginnings of Oblivion mods on this website and I have witnessed many people helping each other out. I have witnessed moments in your development in which you identified with those people and you helped them and they you. As with any public domain involving human nature there will be those seeking power over others and just plain assholes but do not blame this on the many that have participated. Take some time and think of some of the good memories and you will find a self actualization there. That is the reward do not let a few assholes take that away.

Believe me I worked with a lot of amazing modders, many without whom CD would either not exist or not be anything close to what it is. Sadly all of these modders have moved on and I do understand that there are still talented modders here but I have no history any except a handful of them but not enough to work with to continue things. Maybe this will change in time but after what just happened and feeling stabbed in the back by one of the modders I trusted the most here at this point in time I don't trust anyone enough to work with.

 

Maybe all of this will pass at some point and either I will find someone to work with or resume work on it if I can get past things and get my head somewhat sorted out. As it was I was just getting to the point of wanting to mod again and had started to work on some things when all this happened.

[Veladarius]

7 minutes ago, Tron91 said:

Whats happening to Skyrim modding? End of Days?

 

Anyone care to explain what problems arose when DD switched to v4.

 

Been running CD on SE without any problem.

My issue is the options menu or rather the lack of a detailed one which had existed for quite some time. People will say I am either afraid of change or that it isn't necessary but I don't feel it was a change for the better and after using from day 1 of its existence and being involved in its development for quite some time I had a preference as to how I wanted things to work in my game. Is it personal preference? Yes but I feel the change was a major step backwards in its development.

 

As for those that disagree with my opinion I really don't care and if it is v4 or nothing I would choose nothing.

[BigOnes69]

7 minutes ago, Veladarius said:

Believe me I worked with a lot of amazing modders, many without whom CD would either not exist or not be anything close to what it is. Sadly all of these modders have moved on and I do understand that there are still talented modders here but I have no history any except a handful of them but not enough to work with to continue things. Maybe this will change in time but after what just happened and feeling stabbed in the back by one of the modders I trusted the most here at this point in time I don't trust anyone enough to work with.

 

Maybe all of this will pass at some point and either I will find someone to work with or resume work on it if I can get past things and get my head somewhat sorted out. As it was I was just getting to the point of wanting to mod again and had started to work on some things when all this happened.

Just remember you did great work and had some fantastic interactions with people. Either way you go thank you for everything.

[Kimy]

2 hours ago, Tron91 said:

Anyone care to explain what problems arose when DD switched to v4.

There are NO technical issues preventing adapting CDS to work flawlessly with DD4 with fairly minimal effort. Some changes needed to be made to wrist restraints in 4.0, that would require changing some keywords in scripts and dialogue conditions etc. Some custom device scripts might require updating to remove obsolete code, too. Most of the work could be performed automatically, with the help of tools such as TES5Edit. Help with adapting CDS got offered to Vel back then, both by me and others, but we got shot down time and again because Vel doesn't like DD4's revamped difficulty customization system as a PLAYER. Which is why he refused to adapt CDS or let others help him with it. To make this completely clear: His reasons not to update CDS are 100% personal and have -nothing- at all to do with technical limitations or unreasonable amounts of required work. Updating CDS for DD4 would be very easy to do and probably could be done with less than a day of work.

[leddis3]

3 hours ago, Kimy said:

There are NO technical issues preventing adapting CDS to work flawlessly with DD4 with fairly minimal effort. Some changes needed to be made to wrist restraints in 4.0, that would require changing some keywords in scripts and dialogue conditions etc. Some custom device scripts might require updating to remove obsolete code, too. Most of the work could be performed automatically, with the help of tools such as TES5Edit. Help with adapting CDS got offered to Vel back then, both by me and others, but we got shot down time and again because Vel doesn't like DD4's revamped difficulty customization system as a PLAYER. Which is why he refused to adapt CDS or let others help him with it. To make this completely clear: His reasons not to update CDS are 100% personal and have -nothing- at all to do with technical limitations or unreasonable amounts of required work. Updating CDS for DD4 would be very easy to do and probably could be done with less than a day of work.

When it comes  to believing others or a draconian such as yourself, I'm inclined to believe others.

You have repeatedly demonstrated your inability to create or maintain mods without stamping your own arbitrary limitations all over them, which I called you out on early on.

It's unfortunate that not only are you still doing it, you're still blaming everyone around you and/or calling them liars.

[CGi]

35 minutes ago, leddis3 said:

When it comes  to believing others or a draconian such as yourself, I'm inclined to believe others.

You have repeatedly demonstrated your inability to create or maintain mods without stamping your own arbitrary limitations all over them, which I called you out on early on.

It's unfortunate that not only are you still doing it, you're still blaming everyone around you and/or calling them liars.

You're leaving out important facts like rolled back changes and changed defaults because users didn't like them and that some processes - especially streamlining - need changes that have the potential to break things here & there or for good. Still nothing that can't be fixed.
From a users perspective i haven't seen much complaints about DD4.1 and the few that were mentioned were not ignored in a draconic way. From a modders perspective i haven't seen much constructive criticism, so as a result we all can only work with what we have a hand.

[UnEvenSteven]

As a user I wasn't fond of the new escape system introduced in DD4 as it consisted of only a single difficulty slider. Other users didn't like it either but Kimy heard our complaints and changed the system in DD4.1. The single slider was split into three, Escape Difficulty, Cooldown, and Key Break Chance. There's even an option now to destroy keys after use, IIRC the escape system now is quite similar to how it was in DD3 just with a few changes and additions. As a user I appreciate the escape system changes Kimy made in DD4.1 that allow for more customization.

[Veladarius]

4 hours ago, Kimy said:

There are NO technical issues preventing adapting CDS to work flawlessly with DD4 with fairly minimal effort. Some changes needed to be made to wrist restraints in 4.0, that would require changing some keywords in scripts and dialogue conditions etc. Some custom device scripts might require updating to remove obsolete code, too. Most of the work could be performed automatically, with the help of tools such as TES5Edit. Help with adapting CDS got offered to Vel back then, both by me and others, but we got shot down time and again because Vel doesn't like DD4's revamped difficulty customization system as a PLAYER. Which is why he refused to adapt CDS or let others help him with it. To make this completely clear: His reasons not to update CDS are 100% personal and have -nothing- at all to do with technical limitations or unreasonable amounts of required work. Updating CDS for DD4 would be very easy to do and probably could be done with less than a day of work.

Yes, my reasons are 100% personal, so fucking what? I don't like the system implemented in v4 as a player and won't use it because I believe it is crap and gives me no real control over standard devices which I prefer to the difficulty slider crap you implemented. I have said that from the start.

 

As I said, if forced to choose between no DD or v4 then I choose none.

[mrrrori]

That's truly a time of sorrow.

I can't even recall when I started using DD, Zaz's stuff pack and Captured Dreams...

When I tried Captured Dreams Shop for a first time I was in awe.

I even carry its motto/slogan ('perfection is guaranteed and anything less will not be tolerated') as a motto for my work (and my co-workers do experience profound sense of dread because of it...)

Thank you for your really amazing work with a help from which I was able to experience stuff which is pretty difficult to encounter in our excuse of a country.

 

Thank you. Your deeds will not be forgotten.

[galgat]

7 hours ago, Kimy said:

There are NO technical issues preventing adapting CDS to work flawlessly with DD4 with fairly minimal effort. Some changes needed to be made to wrist restraints in 4.0, that would require changing some keywords in scripts and dialogue conditions etc. Some custom device scripts might require updating to remove obsolete code, too. Most of the work could be performed automatically, with the help of tools such as TES5Edit. Help with adapting CDS got offered to Vel back then, both by me and others, but we got shot down time and again because Vel doesn't like DD4's revamped difficulty customization system as a PLAYER. Which is why he refused to adapt CDS or let others help him with it. To make this completely clear: His reasons not to update CDS are 100% personal and have -nothing- at all to do with technical limitations or unreasonable amounts of required work. Updating CDS for DD4 would be very easy to do and probably could be done with less than a day of work.

  Yeppers! if I were you that's exactly what I would say.

[Veladarius]

7 hours ago, Kimy said:

There are NO technical issues preventing adapting CDS to work flawlessly with DD4 with fairly minimal effort. Some changes needed to be made to wrist restraints in 4.0, that would require changing some keywords in scripts and dialogue conditions etc. Some custom device scripts might require updating to remove obsolete code, too. Most of the work could be performed automatically, with the help of tools such as TES5Edit. Help with adapting CDS got offered to Vel back then, both by me and others, but we got shot down time and again because Vel doesn't like DD4's revamped difficulty customization system as a PLAYER. Which is why he refused to adapt CDS or let others help him with it. To make this completely clear: His reasons not to update CDS are 100% personal and have -nothing- at all to do with technical limitations or unreasonable amounts of required work. Updating CDS for DD4 would be very easy to do and probably could be done with less than a day of work.

 

49 minutes ago, galgat said:

  Yeppers! if I were you that's exactly what I would say.

 

Since every mod is there for the PLAYER the PLAYER's experience is what matters. I had been in the process of making CD compatible with both v3 and work with v4 for those that wanted to use it. Besides, why should I make a mod for something that I would absolutely never use?

[SexyTop69]

3 hours ago, Veladarius said:

 

 

Since every mod is there for the PLAYER the PLAYER's experience is what matters. I had been in the process of making CD compatible with both v3 and work with v4 for those that wanted to use it. Besides, why should I make a mod for something that I would absolutely never use?

 

I agree that the players experience matters too. Even game developers in the industry need to realize that, balanced, enjoyable and reasonable gameplay is important.