Devious Devices - Captured Dreams Shop v4.15 - files removed

[t.ara]

On ‎8‎/‎20‎/‎2018 at 4:01 AM, SexyTop69 said:

Thank you, this is really unfortunate, I believe I read the right post from both mods, thanks r5e4w3q2. From what I can gather, it seems that t.ara makes many changes to ZAP that obstructs compatibility with other mods, I have seen this with ZAZ extensions the author has to totally change most if not all the keywords for their mod to make it compatible with v8 and with DD it seems development with that mod is expanding and growing more and coming in conflict with some things with ZAPv8. It's really a shame because many modders like yourself Veladarius that has spent years developing their mods only to have them break/suffer because two mod authors have decided to stop compatibility between their framework mods.  Hopefully they will reconsider and come to a solution or plan better than what they are currently doing for the sake of other modders and the community.

ZAP 8 is not the discussion here but if you like, I can "clean that info up":  

 

o Yes, in between I added a huge amount of keywords and some code to the framework-and this will also and  in future  not affect mods of older release-date. The compatibility to zap 7 is  100%.

 

o The solution for an installation is here, to create your beloved gameplay and not to install all mods together, which was never working with mods, specially if they massively use papyrus.

 

[Veladarius]

1 hour ago, Kimy said:

The brutal misunderstanding you have about DD in general and its escape mechanics in particular is evident when you suggest that struggling/picking devices is supposed to be the only way of escaping them and that people have to spend weeks of real time watching their character fruitlessly struggling against their bindings.

 

It's not.

 

It's -one- of many ways to get out of devices. Obtaining keys is another. Looking for help is, too. You also conveniently neglect to acknowledge the circumstance that the framework never equips anything on you, ever. If a DD content mod does nothing but locking stuff on characters and then leave them to their misery, without providing a reasonable path to freedom (e.g. dropping keys etc), this mod is poorly designed. Why you are blaming the framework for badly designed mods using its API remains your little secret, I guess. The mod that equips a device on you is responsible for gameplay. Not the framework. The generic device library is meant as a basic collection of items mods can use in their content, or as blueprints for custom devices. This doesn't mean they're not responsible for offering you a way out, if they equip them on you.

 

Armbinders and yokes are terribly hard to escape. That's INTENDED and these restraints even TELL you when you inspect them. If somebody spends two hours trying to struggle one off, they're doing it wrong. While players certainly can occasionally lucky and struggle one off, they are meant to be escaped in other ways. This is like playing a stealth game and then play it by charging in with blazing guns all the time. It usually doesn't work, because these games aren't supposed to be played like that and will punish you for it. Essentially, you and people like you blame DD for the bondage equivalent of repeated bashing your head against a brick wall giving you a headache.

The person with whom I spoke with I believe had a yoke put on them and the player did have keys but was locked in it by DCUR or another similar mod and they were in a location where they could not go anywhere due to enemies and such and lacked the skills to simply get past them. In v3 the longest it took me to get out of a yoke with keys was 5 minutes, average is 2 - 3 minutes. While I could retry immediately they had to wait 2 minutes between tries and lost a number of keys in the process. While I understand what happened to this person is not the norm for DD there are instances where it can happen. Their point was that they didn't want to have to wait and if they didn't it would have been a much shorter time period where they were locked up. I don't know if that has option been changed in the current version or not. Personally after 15 minutes I would have said screw it and used the option to remove all devices and go from there. If this was something that they had put on themselves I would not have brought it up because if they put it on then whatever happens after that is on them.

 

I have my game set so taking of keys is rare (1% - 3%) but keybreak chance is 10% - 20% so while I usually end up with several keys I can still get stuck with items on if I have a full set of devices and end up breaking my keys. I have had times that I have gotten specific items off that hampered me the most but had to go and get others removed. I don't play with the goal of constantly being bound everywhere I go but for it to be more of somewhere between an annoyance to minor hindrance. The mods I use for adding items to the player only use generic items and have no quest items at all. I understand that some players want to be bound all of the time and tailor their game with mods to go with it but I use 3 DD based mods including CD, that's all, the rest were tossed.

 

As for the inspecting of armbinders and yokes before putting them on that generally isn't an option when it is put on you forcibly. I don't use them voluntarily, the only devices I use by choice are the Protector series of CD Belts.

 

My only point in all of this is that while people have different ways of using DD there are those of us that wish to specify what is used and what its specific chances are, nothing else. I won't bring any of this up again.

[Prime66]

8 minutes ago, Veladarius said:

The person with whom I spoke with I believe had a yoke put on them and the player did have keys but was locked in it by DCUR or another similar mod and they were in a location where they could not go anywhere due to enemies and such and lacked the skills to simply get past them. In v3 the longest it took me to get out of a yoke with keys was 5 minutes, average is 2 - 3 minutes. While I could retry immediately they had to wait 2 minutes between tries and lost a number of keys in the process. While I understand what happened to this person is not the norm for DD there are instances where it can happen. Their point was that they didn't want to have to wait and if they didn't it would have been a much shorter time period where they were locked up. I don't know if that has option been changed in the current version or not. Personally after 15 minutes I would have said screw it and used the option to remove all devices and go from there. If this was something that they had put on themselves I would not have brought it up because if they put it on then whatever happens after that is on them.

 

 

2

I don't like that feature either but it can be turned off in the MCM in the latest version. 

[t.ara]

On 8/20/2018 at 9:36 AM, galgat said:

 

    I did not know it was that bad, but I saw it coming way back when some mod's started to have trouble with the newer release's in DDI.  When a backbone mod corrupts mods that have used it, and trusted that it would hold backward compatibility so there mod would continue to work ( as sexlab did a truly good job of this ).  I find this a true shame.

 

   Min was always so cautious about this, I find it troubling that he has lost that caution.

I do think in the same way:

Veladarius is painting a "dark future to the wall" which is NOT happening. ZAP 7 will be available and all other stuff will be available same way.

I´ll also hold on backwards compatibility in new (personalized) releases. I tell it "personalized" as I´m not fully accepted as a modder here. So I´ll behave like that.

Please "VELI", release yourself from this "black ghost". Nothing bad is happening.

You !  only descide what you will do with Captured Dreams: Let it run via DD3 or split it off DD, or make it a stand alone mod....all the ways are opened and I wish you herewith again LOT OF ENERGY and love in your heart for all those users, who are honoring and celebrating you day by day as a GREAT GENIOUS MODDER HERE !!!!!

You have had  always the BEST SUPPORT which I have ever seen for a private person. All this time you spend here into this beloved gameplay CAN´T be stopping here-I don´t believe THIS.

I DO NOT LIKE TO LOOSE YOU HERE - NOT NOW !!!

...

I´d be glad if you would be so Kind to Change again the topic´s heading to the original one, PLEASE !?

(p.s. : zap will wait for you soon with lot of crazy new items)

[t.ara]

On ‎8‎/‎21‎/‎2018 at 2:09 AM, Majin Buu said:

Thanks for your great work on this Vel.
Soooo.....Anyone wanna start from scratch and build their own version of this? ? It's a good mod, just needed to be brought up to code (Compatible with DDv4).
Or make a patch to make current items compatible with DDv4.

...not allowed!

-and:  I do personally not give up herewith

-Little to early to bring ideas up like this, isn´t it???

[Gräfin Zeppelin]

3 hours ago, SexyTop69 said:

Your speaking of an armbinder, you can only manipulate locks if you put it on yourself, not if an NPC puts it on you. That's apparent, did you read the quote above my response and my response fully?

 

Yes I did at least I think so.

Still DD locks nothing on the player, other mods do that.

[SexyTop69]

7 hours ago, Prime66 said:

That's the thing the framework doesn't need to do that the content mods should give you that option. 

SexLab Dialogue has the Blacksmith feature you mentioned 

If the Chances that someone will unlock a device aren't very high you can change that in the MCM (Cursed Loot)

and there is also Devious Helpers and Devious Followers that can unlock your devices the later of which wants money for unlocking devices. 

I agree thank you for your response. I wasn't aware Sex Dialogue's feature would let you do that, It appears so vague and says something to the effect of becoming an blacksmith or something in game that I didn't recognize what it could do.  

7 hours ago, Reesewow said:

DD doesn't cause NPCs to put devices on you, other mods do that.

 

3 hours ago, Gräfin Zeppelin said:

Yes I did at least I think so.

Still DD locks nothing on the player, other mods do that.

I already know that, I didn't think that I had to go through the motions and details to explicitly state that a mod would be needed to cause an NPC to place an item on you and that it would completely understood if I didn't directly mention a mod only an NPC doing so, or that DD is an framework since I already read and understand that.

 

7 hours ago, t.ara said:

ZAP 8 is not the discussion here but if you like, I can "clean that info up":  

 

o Yes, in between I added a huge amount of keywords and some code to the framework-and this will also and  in future  not affect mods of older release-date. The compatibility to zap 7 is  100%.

 

o The solution for an installation is here, to create your beloved gameplay and not to install all mods together, which was never working with mods, specially if they massively use papyrus.

 

Thank you for your response and for clearing things up. I did not mean to mention ZAP 8 in any ill will and greatly appreciate your work and all your furniture that you have added, they look really nice :) Veladarius also cleared this up for me as well earlier. I only mentioned Zap 8 because a modder that made ZAZ extensions I believe it's called had said to have compatibility issues with ZAP 8 as well and that it would take alot of work to make it compatible with ZAP 8.

[Zaflis]

While we're still almost in struggling discussion, just mentioning way i play it, with cursed loot. It seems not to be the norm so:

- When cursed traps hit, chance to lose all keys is 50%. The keys themselves are not that rare, i want to get out afterall. The traps have like 2.5h cooldown, you can find plenty of keys in that time.

- The keys are not lost when used, however they can still break or get stuck in the lock (3rd easiest setting).

- Struggling out chance is second easiest.

- Cooldown between struggling attempts shortest possible.

- With DD Helpers i can ask followers or blacksmith to free me for payment. Neither one removes certain restraints like collars or piercings etc. Normally i don't play with a follower.

[Sylven11]

So reading back a few pages is the problem I'm having with my CTD when trying to do some of the quests in this mod because of incompatibility issues between this mod and the new DD mod?  And if so what can I do about it.  Thanks

 

[damnvox]

I'm having an issue with the consequences. first my character got the cage but after a few days the cage model and textures just disappeared. I reloaded and got the store display punishment but I can't use the wait and after 24 in-game hours, nothing happened. my character was stuck there till presumably the end of time. any ideas at to whats wrong?

[t.ara]

5 hours ago, SexyTop69 said:

I

Thank you for your response and for clearing things up. I did not mean to mention ZAP 8 in any ill will and greatly appreciate your work and all your furniture that you have added, they look really nice Veladarius also cleared this up for me as well earlier. I only mentioned Zap 8 because a modder that made ZAZ extensions I believe it's called had said to have compatibility issues with ZAP 8 as well and that it would take alot of work to make it compatible with ZAP 8.

Yes, that amount of contence inside of zap8+ is of course more difficult to be overviewed. Specially, if it comes to furniture´s behavior-keywords. I used all those keywords, that have been added from version 6.11 in addition to version 7.0 also onto my new items. The problem is, that ZEP went further again more deeper and exactly into details, which should be also filled into zap, and which would be leading to lot of month´s work again. And some furnitures did not "react" as wanted, because the camera position got stuck sadly into the collision of the player´s body or it stuck into the collision of the furniture itself. Nobody is guilty for this phenomena and every of this cam - corrections are a win for the gamer and are also useful, as NPCs do align a little more better-or far better  within the FNIS-based animation which is played on the furniture. The problem here is, that zap 8 is (after this correction) then not "place-compatible" with a next version. My "bannered mare" has to be adjusted new and all the mods, which rely on zap 8 have to be "place"-corrected if the users switch over to zap 9...it´s not a lot to do for this change and the "price" is a perfect cam-"ride", like we have on the X-cross. So, this will be very much okay also for older mods-no question. The framework instead, should be using only those keywords, which are also part of the framework itself and if a modder likes to be more exactly with more expressions, (s)he has to implement the keywords onto the furniture inside of her/his mod and give new expressions that "override" - specially, because not all furnitures are used within one mod!!

And if ZAIRA (Maria Eden Prostitude) creates mods, he´s doing it VERY MUCH SPECIAL and no existing framework/resource will/could make him happy out of the box. In that case he for best put the wanted stuff into the base-mod directly. A framework like zap is far not working like he likes to have all the functions. And changing the zap framework i do not agree because I want users to be compatible with older stuff, too - and without installing and deinstalling a lot. Changes will only be in that way, that new functions are added, without breaking old compatibility...theoretically, I could add a different framework parallel while the "old one" will keep up it´s compatibility-it depends then only on the keywords which the quest-mod is calling up to work with.

 

Under ideal circumstances, a new Maria Eden (2.5 probably) would be playable aside of zap xyz, if this mod becomes autarky in furniture use and if it not depends on zap 7 and if it does´t affect the scripts of zap 7/8/9. 

 

[t.ara]

I would not discuss DD as a mod in function. This mod is one of different possibilities, the player can choose from. I explained, what should be changed on the mod in the past and I also wanted furniture use in the past-lot of time ago. But nobody has listened, nobody has been interested. I have very interesting ideas for frameworks-I´ll put them instead into zap in future.

 

DD is a good mod that does´t need to be discussed.

Of course is DD specialized to become running for the "house-mod" of  it´s "mistress".

And if someone likes DD3 more, no reason to no use version 3.

I played CD with DD2 in the past. And I could play it completely.

One crash when tried to exit the "shop" once...load order changed...working !

Most of us want updates and so DD4 is interesting, too.

But do not await, that everybody is lucky and 100% agrees to every update-changes,

that are made by their creators. That can happen, it also happened with zap in some cases. And what?

 

There´s no lack of development on LL, specially concerning zap and DD, in whole context, we all get new possibilities to play skyrim "sexy".

[Veladarius]

On 8/20/2018 at 3:36 AM, galgat said:

 

    I did not know it was that bad, but I saw it coming way back when some mod's started to have trouble with the newer release's in DDI.  When a backbone mod corrupts mods that have used it, and trusted that it would hold backward compatibility so there mod would continue to work ( as sexlab did a truly good job of this ).  I find this a true shame.

As a modder I have no issues with what has been implemented in v4 as it gives a number of options in the sorts of devices you can create by giving control over how the device behaves. I also believe that collecting all of the devices that bind the arms/hands together such as armbinders under a single keyword (heavybondage) is a positive thing and reduces work for modders instead of having all the different devices that use it have individual keywords.

 

(the following is not meant to be a criticism just a suggestion)

I think that the original MCM menu could have been kept in place as well and a true/false flag added to the devices whether to the device should use the MCM menu values or to use the values set in the device properties. This would have allowed the behavior of standard devices to be controlled by the player and custom devices controlled by their creator. The difficulty sliders could still be used in this situation with players being able to turn it off/on for standard devices if they wanted to have a simple way of altering the behavior in the short term or long term and modders could decide whether or not to allow the sliders to affect their devices by another true/false flag.

 

 

On 8/20/2018 at 3:36 AM, galgat said:

   Min was always so cautious about this, I find it troubling that he has lost that caution.

Min has not been involved in the development of DD since before the addition of the quest item keyword and device removal command so that would likely be since either late v2 or early v3 so it has been a number of years now.

[Veladarius]

Given some time I may be able to get past things and resume work on CD as my bi polar issues are likely playing a large part in this right now. My bi polar issues are not controlled by medication and it isn't because I am not seeking treatment but that I have reacted badly to all of the medications including one of them damaging my liver. I have been trying to do what I can to limit its effect on my but with little success. This combined with my anxiety and tendency towards depression are all strong enough to have me considered disabled as they keep me from being able to work. If you think I would rather be sitting at home (which I only leave if I have to, usually once a week or if I have to take my wife to the doctor for a treatment which leaves her unable to drive and then only for 1-2 hours at most) you would be mistaken. I had a job I really liked, great boss and co-workers and made more than double what disability pays.

 

Time will tell if I can get past things and resume work. The update that was under development was not a small one and development slowed while I was deciding how to set up Manor Slave's mechanics to be simpler and more stable. I had finally worked it out and was actually starting work on it and the changes to make CD compatible between v3 and v4, the patch I released was what I was able to complete as far as compatibility goes and was my initial testing.

 

With what transpired (I don't blame Kimy or ZAZ as they had nothing to do with this and apologize again for any misunderstandings caused by this) it pretty much took what motivation I had built up to work on things and dropped it in a hole. I only blame one person for what happened though I don't think he expected this outcome, it isn't what I wanted either.

[t.ara]

10 minutes ago, Veladarius said:

 

...

(the following is not meant to be a criticism just a suggestion)

I think that the original MCM menu could have been kept in place as well and a true/false flag added to the devices whether to the device should use the MCM menu values or to use the values set in the device properties. This would have allowed the behavior of standard devices to be controlled by the player and custom devices controlled by their creator. The difficulty sliders could still be used in this situation with players being able to turn it off/on for standard devices if they wanted to have a simple way of altering the behavior in the short term or long term and modders could decide whether or not to allow the sliders to affect their devices by another true/false flag.

...

..and this seems to be a real usefull suggestion to make  DD4.1xyz more flexible, not only for Captured Dreams, I guess.

 

[Veladarius]

Any modders interested in what I did in my scripts to determine the version of DD and what keyword to use this is the code:

 

Determining the version:

	; DD version check
	if libs.config.GetVersion() > 17
		DDVersion = 4
	else
		DDVersion = 3
	endif

This checks the MCM version, 17 looks to be the version of the menu in the last version in v3.

 

 

From my CDxFramework script to set the keyword used in removing or equipping the device:

		if DDVersion == 3
			debug.notification("v3 in use")
			if TARGETACTOR.wornhaskeyword(libs.zad_deviousArmbinder)
				RI_DevKeyword = libs.zad_deviousArmbinder
			elseif TARGETACTOR.wornhaskeyword(libs.zad_deviousYoke)
				RI_DevKeyword = libs.zad_deviousYoke
			endif
		else
			debug.notification("v4 in use")
			RI_DevKeyword = libs.zad_deviousheavybondage
		endif

The framework removal function was set to use strings in telling it what type of device to use, armbinders and yokes used the same string name so I was already grouping these together. The detection function in the 'Device Removal' quest to pay to remove devices is similar but has a lot more going on in it as it also detects if it is a standard, DCUR, CD or Non-CD quest item.

 

[Kimy]

3 hours ago, Veladarius said:

(the following is not meant to be a criticism just a suggestion)

I think that the original MCM menu could have been kept in place as well and a true/false flag added to the devices whether to the device should use the MCM menu values or to use the values set in the device properties. This would have allowed the behavior of standard devices to be controlled by the player and custom devices controlled by their creator. The difficulty sliders could still be used in this situation with players being able to turn it off/on for standard devices if they wanted to have a simple way of altering the behavior in the short term or long term and modders could decide whether or not to allow the sliders to affect their devices by another true/false flag.

That....is exactly how it's working... :S

 

The four controls in MCM affect all standard devices. The user has full control over them. By default, custom and quest devices are not affected by the settings, but there is a flag in the device properties that lets a modder make that item get affected by user settings as well.

 

I have seriously no idea what you're still bashing me for. The system in place works exactly how you describe it here, the only difference being 4.x using somewhat different MCM controls that 3.x. Yes, there are fewer buttons and sliders in 4.x, but they affect MORE internal variables, meaning that the user has MORE control over device behavior than in 3.x. Not less. More.

The one thing I did was rolling related settings into one MCM control. Which I like to think results in a cleaner and easier to understand MCM. I realize that I missed the mark when I made just ONE difficulty control in 4.0. I am not perfect, you know? But once people stopped throwing spite and rotten tomatoes at me, and rather explained to me in a constructive fashion why the one control isn't good enough, I changed it the very same day. I also got rid of the cooldowns people didn't like. Constructive criticism goes a long way, you know? What I can't work with is "Min was great. Kimy sucks!!!" statements. *shrug*

 

3 hours ago, Veladarius said:

 

 

Min has not been involved in the development of DD since before the addition of the quest item keyword and device removal command so that would likely be since either late v2 or early v3 so it has been a number of years now.

Everything up to 2.x was still done by Min. 3.0 was the first version released after he passed on DD to me.

[DonQuiWho]

45 minutes ago, Kimy said:

That....is exactly how it's working... :S

 

The four controls in MCM affect all standard devices. The user has full control over them. By default, custom and quest devices are not affected by the settings, but there is a flag in the device properties that lets a modder make that item get affected by user settings as well.

 

I have seriously no idea what you're still bashing me for. The system in place works exactly how you describe it here, the only difference being 4.x using somewhat different MCM controls that 3.x. Yes, there are fewer buttons and sliders in 4.x, but they affect MORE internal variables, meaning that the user has MORE control over device behavior than in 3.x. Not less. More.

The one thing I did was rolling related settings into one MCM control. Which I like to think results in a cleaner and easier to understand MCM. I realize that I missed the mark when I made just ONE difficulty control in 4.0. I am not perfect, you know? But once people stopped throwing spite and rotten tomatoes at me, and rather explained to me in a constructive fashion why the one control isn't good enough, I changed it the very same day. I also got rid of the cooldowns people didn't like. Constructive criticism goes a long way, you know? What I can't work with is "Min was great. Kimy sucks!!!" statements. *shrug*

 

Everything up to 2.x was still done by Min. 3.0 was the first version released after he passed on DD to me.

Appreciate that there may be technical difference nuances and allied irritations in this discussion but, FWIW, Vel has apologised, more than once, for some of the misunderstanding that have arisen.   eg

 

'With what transpired (I don't blame Kimy or ZAZ as they had nothing to do with this and apologize again for any misunderstandings caused by this)'

 

Just popped this in, in case those may have got lost in the walls of comment ?

 

 

[Reesewow]

19 hours ago, Veladarius said:

I have my game set so taking of keys is rare (1% - 3%) but keybreak chance is 10% - 20% so while I usually end up with several keys I can still get stuck with items on if I have a full set of devices and end up breaking my keys. I have had times that I have gotten specific items off that hampered me the most but had to go and get others removed. I don't play with the goal of constantly being bound everywhere I go but for it to be more of somewhere between an annoyance to minor hindrance. The mods I use for adding items to the player only use generic items and have no quest items at all. I understand that some players want to be bound all of the time and tailor their game with mods to go with it but I use 3 DD based mods including CD, that's all, the rest were tossed.

While obviously a suggestion for a hopeful future where you find yourself in a better headspace, I would humbly suggest trying the newer version of DD 4 with its updated MCM menu at some point during your hiatus (on the assumption you haven't tried the current DD since 4.0).  Especially if you can approach it without prejudice you may find that the changes made in 4.1 allow you to somewhat match your preferences with DD 3.  This would obviously be extremely hard to do and most people wouldn't be able to (looking at you ever spiritual successor to a movie/game ever) but it may be worth the attempt.  I doubt you would prefer it to DD3 since you know what you like, and it is DD3 with specific set of values, but it might help with understanding the mod going forward and it is possible some of the advancements might prove fun enough to you to be worth the install time.  Plus there are some mods you can try in the meantime....

 

There are a few mods still being actively updated that I think would be excellent companion mods to Captured Dreams, but unfortunately I don't have CD installed anymore to try out due to using 4.1.  Specifically, the revamped SLUTS pony girl mod is excellent, and Devious Followers has become a cornerstone of my game's DD content.  Both I think would be amazing tie-in/soft dependency mods with Captured Dreams, but even without that I think you are missing out if you don't have a chance to try them.

 

I personally found 4.0 to be getting very tiresome over time with the mentioned required key failures/timeouts and long animations, but now I'm finding 4.1 to be refreshing with the options it allows.  I currently have keybreak and jam chance to be low, time locks standard (but are rarer because of keybreak/jam chance being low), and struggle difficulty medium-high.  The crux of the settings for me is the return of the consume keys option as now my game is set up to be heavily reliant on the Devious Followers mod, which has options for heavy device removal on demand and acquiring keys (at a risky price) - I can get the keys I need, but they are precious consumable commodities.  The bonus is that they rarely break or jam when used, but without them I struggle to get out of generic devices applied to my character.

[Veladarius]

4 hours ago, Veladarius said:

 

(the following is not meant to be a criticism just a suggestion)

I think that the original MCM menu could have been kept in place as well and a true/false flag added to the devices whether to the device should use the MCM menu values or to use the values set in the device properties. This would have allowed the behavior of standard devices to be controlled by the player and custom devices controlled by their creator. The difficulty sliders could still be used in this situation with players being able to turn it off/on for standard devices if they wanted to have a simple way of altering the behavior in the short term or long term and modders could decide whether or not to allow the sliders to affect their devices by another true/false flag.

 

1 hour ago, Kimy said:

That....is exactly how it's working... :S

 

The four controls in MCM affect all standard devices. The user has full control over them. By default, custom and quest devices are not affected by the settings, but there is a flag in the device properties that lets a modder make that item get affected by user settings as well.

 

I have seriously no idea what you're still bashing me for. The system in place works exactly how you describe it here, the only difference being 4.x using somewhat different MCM controls that 3.x. Yes, there are fewer buttons and sliders in 4.x, but they affect MORE internal variables, meaning that the user has MORE control over device behavior than in 3.x. Not less. More.

The one thing I did was rolling related settings into one MCM control. Which I like to think results in a cleaner and easier to understand MCM. I realize that I missed the mark when I made just ONE difficulty control in 4.0. I am not perfect, you know? But once people stopped throwing spite and rotten tomatoes at me, and rather explained to me in a constructive fashion why the one control isn't good enough, I changed it the very same day. I also got rid of the cooldowns people didn't like. Constructive criticism goes a long way, you know? What I can't work with is "Min was great. Kimy sucks!!!" statements. *shrug*

That was constructive criticism as I said nothing negative about the sliders or anything else other than how control of the specific attributes could have been implemented and the current system still be used. I'm sorry if you don't understand why I prefer control of each setting individually but I do.

 

But then anything I say, positive or negative will be seen as nothing but bashing on DD or you at this point.

 

 

1 hour ago, Kimy said:

Everything up to 2.x was still done by Min. 3.0 was the first version released after he passed on DD to me.

This was in reference to galgat's comment as it seemed that he had some belief that Min still had any say over DD or at what point it ended. As to when things were handed over I did not remember exactly when as it was some time ago. But then me trying to define when things changed hands (and nothing else) is probably seen as me bashing you as well.

[Veladarius]

2 minutes ago, Reesewow said:

While obviously a suggestion for a hopeful future where you find yourself in a better headspace, I would humbly suggest trying the newer version of DD 4 with its updated MCM menu at some point during your hiatus (on the assumption you haven't tried the current DD since 4.0).  Especially if you can approach it without prejudice you may find that the changes made in 4.1 allow you to somewhat match your preferences with DD 3.  This would obviously be extremely hard to do and most people wouldn't be able to (looking at you ever spiritual successor to a movie/game ever) but it may be worth the attempt.  I doubt you would prefer it to DD3 since you know what you like, and it is DD3 with specific set of values, but it might help with understanding the mod going forward and it is possible some of the advancements might prove fun enough to you to be worth the install time. 

I have tried it and downloaded the latest build not long ago.

 

 

2 minutes ago, Reesewow said:

There are a few mods still being actively updated that I think would be excellent companion mods to Captured Dreams, but unfortunately I don't have CD installed anymore to try out due to using 4.1.  Specifically, the revamped SLUTS pony girl mod is excellent, and Devious Followers has become a cornerstone of my game's DD content.  Both I think would be amazing tie-in/soft dependency mods with Captured Dreams, but even without that I think you are missing out if you don't have a chance to try them.

I have dropped almost all of the DD and SexLab mods I had been running. As far as DD mods go I am using:

Captured Dreams

DD Enhanced Chests

Devious Captures

 

That's it. Most of the DD mods either don't interest me or caused interference with my testing of CD as they were somewhat intrusive,

 

I have about the same number of SexLab mods as well.

 

2 minutes ago, Reesewow said:

I personally found 4.0 to be getting very tiresome over time with the mentioned required key failures/timeouts and long animations, but now I'm finding 4.1 to be refreshing with the options it allows.  I currently have keybreak and jam chance to be low, time locks standard (but are rarer because of keybreak/jam chance being low), and struggle difficulty medium-high.  The crux of the settings for me is the return of the consume keys option as now my game is set up to be heavily reliant on the Devious Followers mod, which has options for heavy device removal on demand and acquiring keys (at a risky price) - I can get the keys I need, but they are precious consumable commodities.  The bonus is that they rarely break or jam when used, but without them I struggle to get out of generic devices applied to my character.

I have my game set up so keys are somewhat plentiful (4% whether or not I have devices on or not) and are not stolen or taken. I do however have the keybreak chance set from 10% - 20% but lock jamming at 0% (along with pretty much everything else). Armbinders are set with a 20% chance to escape starting with the first try.

[Kimy]

5 minutes ago, Veladarius said:

 

That was constructive criticism as I said nothing negative about the sliders or anything else other than how control of the specific attributes could have been implemented and the current system still be used. I'm sorry if you don't understand why I prefer control of each setting individually but I do.

 

But then anything I say, positive or negative will be seen as nothing but bashing on DD or you at this point.

You really never made a case for separating the settings. All you said was "I don't like how DD4 does it." That's honestly not very constructive. So, go ahead and try me! Tell me which exact settings should be separated from the three existing controls. And WHY you think they should be separate. Because I only grouped together what makes sense grouping together. So convince me that some of these should be separate and I will consider it. Here is the current setup:

 

EscapeDifficulty affects 3 internal settings (Escape chance, RepairJammedLock, LockAccessDifficulty)

CooldownDifficulty affects 7 internal settings (various cooldowns such as unlock, escape, repair, lock shield and timed lock)

KeyDifficulty affects 2 internal settings - key break and lock jam chances.

ConsumeKey is a separate toggle anyway.

 

I still believe that most users would set these groups to similar values anyway. If you don't like cooldowns, you're likely to dislike ALL of them, no? And the key break / lock jam values are basically two facets of the same feature anyway.

5 minutes ago, Veladarius said:

 

This was in reference to galgat's comment as it seemed that he had some belief that Min still had any say over DD or at what point it ended.

That's a common "misconception", apparently. I took over the DDX thread, but we agreed to keep Min's name on the DDI thread to reflect the role he had in creating it. Other than that he retained no say on DD in any shape or fashion. Don't ask me why people still try to involve Min whenever they feel they disagree with how I am running DD. Min hasn't spoken on DD's behalf in over two years, only I did. They know well enough, I suppose, just conveniently ignore it when it suits their agenda.

[t.ara]

VELI,

maybe you can once please read my p.m.?

 

KIMY,

here is happening no attack against DD or yourself.

And I would be happy for VELI and you, if you could come to maybe a "sort of sollution", as far VELI is picking up that Integration for DD4 (again?!)

And a suggestion for DD4.x to become more better is surely constructive meant.

And all of that for sure,  without.......tomatoes....;-)

 

 

 

 

 

[cloudsan1984]

Ugh , what have i walked into here.

There are so many voices in between Vel and Kimi and anyone else that might be involved that it makes me feel like i'm spiraling down a hole.

There's an issue , something , i'm not a coder and i'm not here on a day by day basis , don't ask me what it is. (like i said , spiraling down a hole.)

I would like to suggest that whom ever is involved take this to a seperate space. Skype or something where its just the modders.

Where you can start over , bring it all up with a point by point system where you discuss each point fully and work out the issue(s) or solve your differences.

Collect your thoughts , push the things that are not involved aside , calm yourselves and begin again with less voices muddying up the intakes.

The forums , where it is under the scrutiny and the watchful eyes of the public , whom have or shape their opinions based on what is taking place , is not the place to solve something like this. (whatever it may be , spiraling down a hole , remember)

It usually tends to get out of control.

No blaming , no shade throwing , just calmly and respectfully work through it. Please? For yourselves , your fans , your sanity and for the friendship you might have.

 And if you can't find common ground after that , well , you don't have to like each other to work well together.

Look , i like Kimy and Kimy's work , i also like Vel and Vel's work (alphabethical not appreciation based), i appreciate you both. To the point where i hate seeing the two of you on opposite sides.

All i tried to do here is bring it down a bit and hopefully be a voice of some reason.

I'm not going to change my opinions on anyone , not now , not even if this blows up even further.

I just felt like i had to say something. How pointless it might sound.

 

Have a wonderful day , everyone.

[Veladarius]

@Kimy

The only reason I have are personal preference. I prefer to only use Key Break without Lock Jam (I was not a fan of it when Min introduced it and said so) and I prefer control of individual behaviors on the off chance that I want to actually use / try one as something to be a rare occurrence but only that one thing.

 

Most people's requests to the sliders and values have been either due to annoyance or personal preference for the most part and I understand why you have grouped them as you have.

 

Yes, I bitched about the quest item change but 60% was because I would have to change a lot of things in CD but the other 40% was that I was concerned that older mods that used it would end up having the blockgeneric keywords on their ques's items ignored.

 

The only thing I have complained about in v4 is the options. Changing the keywords on armbinders and yokes due to the addition of similar items and using HeavyBondage instead I have no issue with and support entirely as a modder.

 

Letting modders set the values for the various settings on devices was a good idea as it lets modders make items that may be removable but with effort.

 

When I said it would be difficult to convert all of CD's items I meant for me only as I am not a programmer and unable to automate the process. Also, since the main person I made anything in the mod for is myself updating meant using v4 because I use an older version of NMM that does not support different profiles and rebuilding my game would not be easy as I have 400+ mods installed (some are just texture sets, others are mods used for their resources) and I have over 1000 mods stored in NMM (so again personal preference on this). The last time I had to reinstall things was 2014 and over half of my mods are from or prior to 2015.

 

 

 

That's it, nothing else. If that isn't enough then that's fine, I accept whatever decision you make and won't complain.