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I really don't know how to start this conversation without people being upset but since people are already upset I might as well go ahead. I went back to the Fallout New Vegas modding scene recently where I saw the Frontier mod was blocked at the modding website that shalt not be named. Since a cut version was released looking back at the controversy was interesting if a bit disturbing but those are just feelings. Perhaps mine perhaps somebody else's. I figure I might as well give my two cents. First was the sex scene with the death claw which sounds right at home for a Fallout game next to a butt fisting robot. The scene with AMERICA was uncomfortable to say the least but it isn't the first fiction with illustrated child slavery and it certainly won't be the last. Lastly one of the artist's deviantart page was full of the nasty but well that's deviantart for ya.

 

I guess in the grand scheme of things bad PR wins the day. I wouldn't hold it against the creators for cutting their content as it was their decision and their mod. What are your guys' thoughts?

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I would say it was best to remove that stuff because this mod/project what ever you want to call, it was catered to an audience that doesn't necessarily care about that type of stuff. So having that content in there was only obvious it would upset the vast majority of those people. You have to be dumb to have want to include that type of content in your mod and think you could get away with it without any repercussions. they should have curated it before publicly releasing it. I'm sure other teams out there will learn from this mistake. Either way, I really don't care because FNV is about as dead to me as FO3. I was still around when this project was initiated. But I never cared about it. The scandal was entertaining at the very least.

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1 hour ago, endgame † addiction said:

dead to me as FO3

 

I've always thought I'd go back after many years to play FO3 again, but now that I think about it - it sounds more like wishful thinking.

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1 hour ago, endgame † addiction said:

I would say it was best to remove that stuff because this mod/project what ever you want to call, it was catered to an audience that doesn't necessarily care about that type of stuff. So having that content in there was only obvious it would upset the vast majority of those people. You have to be dumb to have want to include that type of content in your mod and think you could get away with it without any repercussions. they should have curated it before publicly releasing it. I'm sure other teams out there will learn from this mistake. Either way, I really don't care because FNV is about as dead to me as FO3. I was still around when this project was initiated. But I never cared about it. The scandal was entertaining at the very least.

Fallout much like Skyrim is at least to me is part mad science project and part um mad science. Alas It has been entertaining.

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Didn't any of those women stop to think that trumpeting the cause of trans people was at odds with their stance on traditional gender roles as being the eternal victim? They were in the wrong camp the whole time and only now realize it.

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What I meant was in traditional gender roles. Now that those roles are redefined and not gender specific at all, their position as the "most" victimized and holding the moral high ground is gone. Don't like how you're treated as a woman? Become a fucking man and reap the benefits of male privilege! Then they'll walk in our shoes and see for themselves just how much "privilege" they gain. Of course they already know this, so they're stuck where they are. :classic_biggrin:

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1 hour ago, KoolHndLuke said:

What I meant was in traditional gender roles. Now that those roles are redefined and not gender specific at all, their position as the "most" victimized and holding the moral high ground is gone. Don't like how you're treated as a woman? Become a fucking man and reap the benefits of male privilege! Then they'll walk in our shoes and see for themselves just how much "privilege" they gain. Of course they already know this, so they're stuck where they are. :classic_biggrin:

I don't dispute your point but I remain confused on proper "woke" terminology. My daughter (good liberal  that she is) explained that "gender" is socially defined. So a man who behaves as a female, acts like a female and is treated as a female has a "female gender role". She (using proper terminology) is still biologically male (even if she has surgery and takes hormones). So, while I understand and agree (that is I think I understand and agree) with you I believe you could have been a little more precise in your use of terms.

 

On the other hand, from my perspective (certainly not my daughter's) our society is in a race for the bottom. I don't mean this as a moral statement (although it could be one too) I mean that everyone wants to be perceived as the greatest victim. Gone are the days of glorifying success and wealth; today all the attention (and government largesse) goes to those who "have been oppressed." 

 

This holds true in medicine (and I suspect other sciences) as well. If you invent (or redefine) a syndrome/disease and get the government to recognize it as a disability then the incidence of said syndrome/disease increases exponentially (while I could cite specific examples I won't since that is likely to offend someone specifically, as opposed to my current statement which will only offends generally). If you want to know why things happen (in science or society as a whole) follow the money. As long as we pay people to fail (poor victims that they are) there will be more and more failures (and victims which is what some people appear to want).

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37 minutes ago, Psalam said:

I don't dispute your point but I remain confused on proper "woke" terminology. My daughter (good liberal  that she is) explained that "gender" is socially defined. So a man who behaves as a female, acts like a female and is treated as a female has a "female gender role". She (using proper terminology) is still biologically male (even if she has surgery and takes hormones). So, while I understand and agree (that is I think I understand and agree) with you I believe you could have been a little more precise in your use of terms.

 

On the other hand, from my perspective (certainly not my daughter's) our society is in a race for the bottom. I don't mean this as a moral statement (although it could be one too) I mean that everyone wants to be perceived as the greatest victim. Gone are the days of glorifying success and wealth; today all the attention (and government largesse) goes to those who "have been oppressed." 

 

This holds true in medicine (and I suspect other sciences) as well. If you invent (or redefine) a syndrome/disease and get the government to recognize it as a disability then the incidence of said syndrome/disease increases exponentially (while I could cite specific examples I won't since that is likely to offend someone specifically, as opposed to my current statement which will only offends generally). If you want to know why things happen (in science or society as a whole) follow the money. As long as we pay people to fail (poor victims that they are) there will be more and more failures (and victims which is what some people appear to want).

Some good points there, Psalam.

 

As far as gender goes, I stick with nature. There are two so that gives you four options - none, female, male or both. All the rest of it is just Western decadence and screwed up people. I often wonder how big of an issue cross-dressing is to Inuits, Lapps, Nenets etc., or the various inhabitants of the equatorial belt who run around in the bollocky-buff.

 

49 minutes ago, Psalam said:

I mean that everyone wants to be perceived as the greatest victim.

I'm a victim of not having anything to be a victim about. The best I can do is being left-handed in a right-handed world.

 

51 minutes ago, Psalam said:

This holds true in medicine (and I suspect other sciences) as well. If you invent (or redefine) a syndrome/disease and get the government to recognize it as a disability then the incidence of said syndrome/disease increases exponentially (while I could cite specific examples I won't since that is likely to offend someone specifically, as opposed to my current statement which will only offends generally). If you want to know why things happen (in science or society as a whole) follow the money.

That in a nutshell is the story of AGW. A bandwagon being pulled by a cash-cow.

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7 minutes ago, Darkpig said:

Have you heard of this youtuber called Mr. Beast?

I am sure there are plenty of exceptions that prove the rule. There are plenty of preachers still in the Church of Prosperity as well. What I decry is that American society as a whole has come to glorify victims (dare I say losers) instead of people who go out, work their asses off and make something for themselves and their families. No, those people are "rich" and are rightly taxed and made to feel guilty about those who find that sort of lifestyle (work hard and play by the rules) to "just not be right for them."

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3 hours ago, Psalam said:

I don't dispute your point but I remain confused on proper "woke" terminology.

The way i see it, when someone denies facts and evidence for the sake of earning cheap victim points and/or to reassure their unfounded reasonings they can be safely considered "woke". The term itself has largely lost it's meaning due to overuse and inaccurate applications (think of the word "snowflake" for example) but the original characteristics of unreasonable extrapolations is the primary indicator for the "woke" criteria. I prefer to not use the term anymore, i just use "idiot" now because it's simple, clear, direct and needs no explanation by itself.

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22 minutes ago, Psalam said:

What I decry is that American society as a whole has come to glorify victims (dare I say losers) instead of people who go out, work their asses off and make something for themselves and their families.

It'll collapse from infighting as everyone tries to be the bigger victim. The "movement" never had any clear focus or direction to begin with other than orange man bad. Now that it's done, they'll turn on each other. What I was pointing out were some of the first signs of this. On top of that, the party that they supported is turning their back on them because they were just a means to an end- a tool to be discarded once it's usefulness was spent. They played right into the hands of the people they should have been against all along and some of them are slowly starting to realize that.

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14 minutes ago, Mr. Otaku said:

The way i see it

I appreciate your perspective and certainly understand why you might feel that way. On the other hand, I prefer not to be intentionally insulting or hurtful. I have genuinely tried to understand the perspective of "woke" people but I'm afraid all that I've managed to clearly understand is that they have "feelings" about things and the "feelings" of the oppressed are more important than the "feelings" of others. So, I'll try to avoid using flagrantly disrespectful language while trying to get a better handle on this Victimism (meant to be viewed as analogous to racism and sexism).

12 minutes ago, KoolHndLuke said:

some of them are slowly starting to realize that

I can only hope so. I'll believe when, in the course of the pendulum of social mores swinging, the terms that are so powerful in our society now become the butt of popular jokes. Note the emphasis on popular.

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14 minutes ago, Psalam said:

I appreciate your perspective and certainly understand why you might feel that way. On the other hand, I prefer not to be intentionally insulting or hurtful. I have genuinely tried to understand the perspective of "woke" people but I'm afraid all that I've managed to clearly understand is that they have "feelings" about things and the "feelings" of the oppressed are more important than the "feelings" of others. So, I'll try to avoid using flagrantly disrespectful language while trying to get a better handle on this Victimism (meant to be viewed as analogous to racism and sexism).

Of course we shouldn't be intentionally insulting and hurtful, i was just making a general statement that when someone denies evidence for the sake of their own perceived morals and unfounded opinions (or feelings if you will) they can be safely considered "woke" hence an "idiot". I don't have to call someone an idiot directly, i can just provide counterarguments that make their positions look idiotic.

 

But i've largely stopped using terms like "woke" now due to the fact that many of the people who are quick to call out "wokeness" are themselves quite the reactionary idiots devoid of any introspection. In cases it is justified, but in many cases it's not and i'm not comfortable beating that drum so to speak.

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10 minutes ago, LadySmoks said:

Yes, but there are times we must pause to enjoy a special moment or scene along the path. )

I know. We can also take the special moments and scenes with us through the rest of the journey to make it even better for us.

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25 minutes ago, Mr. Otaku said:

We can also take the special moments and scenes with us

We always carry those with us. I never said to stop forever. But it seems too many are in too much of a hurry to find "what's next", that they don't appreciate what they have... until it is just a distant memory. What I'm saying is, enjoy the journey and know when to stop and smell the roses. ) 

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1 hour ago, LadySmoks said:

We always carry those with us. I never said to stop forever. But it seems too many are in too much of a hurry to find "what's next", that they don't appreciate what they have... until it is just a distant memory. What I'm saying is, enjoy the journey and know when to stop and smell the roses. ) 

Pretty much.

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Anyone else find it a burden to download mods off Nexus after they've decided to take extra measures to try and persuade people to jump on the premium bandwagon? I have too many tabs open and lack the drive to download mods due to it and was wondering if anyone else out there is in the same boat. The downside is when I go back to check a tab, some mods become hidden or deleted.

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4 hours ago, LadySmoks said:

Yes, but there are times we must pause to enjoy a special moment or scene along the path. )

 

The context is special to you.

 

Not only is it not special to me, but I'm not obligated to grade it as universally special. In fact from my perspective it's boring, mundane, and fucking dumb. Wisdom is not only an aggregate trait, it's literally a local one, right along with common sense.

 

What is an operating manual in the brazillian rain forest doesn't mean jack shit in the namib desert, and that applies to people and their experiences in equal degree. Running the bulls, sticking fire ants in a "glove" and letting them vent their annoyance on your hands until you pass out are fundamental experiences to some and the liteal highlight of backwards ass cultural rigidity to others.

 

A particular facet of current social media is that special and journey marking needs to conform to an arbitrary and sliding scale, a scale defined by people who don't even partake in the same kind of journey.

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57 minutes ago, endgame † addiction said:

Anyone else find it a burden to download mods off Nexus after they've decided to take extra measures to try and persuade people to jump on the premium bandwagon?

Not really if i'm being honest, i've learned to sort of ignore their aggressive premium push and just download the mod. On principle i get why they're doing it but i do kinda dislike it, it's too on the face. What sucks though is when the mods in question are really big it takes a long time to download via MO since Nexus' free download speed is really low. So instead i manually download them through IDM and keep a record/list of those mods in case they get updated at some time, like i do with Loverslab mods.

 

57 minutes ago, endgame † addiction said:

The downside is when I go back to check a tab, some mods become hidden or deleted.

Does that happen too often? As in, you're trying to download something and it just gets deleted when you refresh the page?

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20 minutes ago, 27X said:

I'm not obligated to grade it as universally special.

No one actually asked you, nor said you are "obligated" to write anything in response to what I wrote. But, I'm sure people in the rain forests and deserts take time to enjoy life as they can. Not everyone is a miserable sod. I'm sure what you wrote seemed to have made perfect sense to you as your incoherhent rant flew from fringes of your mind, but I see a pointless diatribe which rattles around like a BB in a boxcar. You seem to have a lot of anger, and pretty much unable to find anything in your life that is worth stopping for to enjoy. Simply to troll along from one post to the next, seeking to make yourself feel better by attempting (in vain) to make someone else or their point of view seem insignificant next to your self-important superiority... or apparent lack thereof. But, thanks for playing. Good luck with that self esteem issue.

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