thedarkone1234 Posted October 6, 2020 Posted October 6, 2020 2 hours ago, willisonnnnnnn said: So how do I actually use the arm bind sex animations in SLAL? Now it's just pulling a bunch stuff that defies the laws of physics like arm in arm bind while above shoulders in yoke. It is more likely the problem you see is bad usage of keywords from the creator of the animations than a mod problem. Currently, however, DD doesn't provide any way to register more animations into it (which is a bit of a shame). If you want appropriate SLAL animations to play while you wear DD items, the only option I know is: Turn of the DD animation filters and use the filters from Sexlab utility plus. However, Sexlab Utility plus will ONLY get animations from SLAL, and not from the seperate DD batch (thought I think something there adds the DD animations to SLAL). You might still get absolutely wrong animations if the creator tagged them wrong though. @Kimy, maybe not for the upcoming DD5 version, but it might be benefitial to add a SLAL-like mechanic to DD that allows you to register more animations to DD (on a "use at your own risk" principal, meaning if some idiot wants to register non-bound animations and mess things up, that's on him). You could then also kinda establish a monopoly on the one proper way to tag bound animations (i.e with "bound" or without "bound" tags, "cuffs" and/or "cuffsFront"/"cuffsBack" etc.). Animation creators will need to adjust the tags of their animations for your decisions, and then we can just download DDAL (DD Animation loader) packs and add them on top of DD just as we add SLAL packs on top of Sexlab. EDIT: Coming to think of it, I suppose it makes more sense that DDAL would be a separate mod, just as SLAL is separate from sexlab. Would also prevent an MCM inflation of DD. Please consider it. It would be awesome!
Kimy Posted October 7, 2020 Posted October 7, 2020 Here is the problem. I'd gladly "register" more bound animations. If I just had any. Every bound animation out there suitable for DD already IS in DD. There is not a single one left for me to register. At least none I am aware of. What people are playing via SLAL aren't animations made for DD. They might be bound animations involving all sorts of devices in all sorts of poses. That doesn't mean I can use them. I can use them only if they fit a specific pose used by a specific type of DD device. E.g. ALL DD armbinders use the same arms pose. Without any exception. If a 3rd party armbinder animation uses a pose just 10% off DD's, the result would look really wrong. And the worst thing is that a DD bound animation can NOT include any hard-coded restraints (= anim objects), as DD has to be able to use the same animation for ANY restraint of its class. Armbinders don't just come in black leather. They come in white leather, too. And black latex. Somebody made a pink set. You get the idea. And it ALL needs to look right, even if some DD modder implements a purple armbinder in her mod. The animation has to fit the ACTUALLY worn device. Which the animations cannot possibly know, so they have to work the same way, no matter the color of your armbinder. That's the big misconception people have about DD animations. That all these "bound animations" out there would be perfect to use for DD, when none of them is that's not already in DD. So they do things like forcing somebody's SLAL animation in place of the actual DD bound animation and then complain to me that it doesn't look right. When it can't EVER look right. Or use mods altering the behavior of the DD filter, with the same (crappy) results. Apparently there is even a mod out there registering internal DD bound animations to SexLab. Which is such a stupid thing to do that it's not even funny. I really wonder if whoever wrote that patch ever wondered why I was writing so much code just to AVOID registering these animations to SexLab. Because I love wasting my time so much? That must be it! But yes, the result of doing that would obviously be bound DD animations be randomly used by every Tom, Dick and Harry mod making a call to SexLab that matches ANY one of the tags used by the DD animation and not EXPLICITLY forcing SexLab to use ALL of the tags, which rarely is implemented in this way. So you'd see rubbish like actors assuming the bound armbinder positions even if they're not bound. Or assuming armbinder positions if they're wearing a yoke. Thing is that people then complain to ME about DD being bugged. And that's when I get really, really, really frustrated. Because it's not MY fault if people ruin DD with stuff like that. The animation filter in DD does exactly what it's supposed to do. Except of course when people mess around with it, not knowing what they're doing. Perhaps it's my mindset. I guess I am no "modder". I am a software engineer who happens to develop mods. The wild-west attitude of some modders who think they know it better than the person who wrote the original and then release "tweaks" and "patches" altering the original in way that it no longer functions as intended (or doesn't really function at all anymore, in case of the DD filter) is really something you usually don't encounter in real-life software development. And I don't get it. Gosh, I wish somebody would make a few more bound animations meant for DD. I get it when people say that looking at the same animations is getting old after a while. I really do. By nature of what I am doing, I look at them more than most of you do. But I can't conjure up animations and nobody lately seemed to have an interest in making a few more to merge to DD. But butchering DD's features that make sure it's playing the correct animations and these only isn't going to help. /rant 4
thedarkone1234 Posted October 7, 2020 Posted October 7, 2020 57 minutes ago, Kimy said: Here is the problem. I'd gladly "register" more bound animations. If I just had any. Every bound animation out there suitable for DD already IS in DD. There is not a single one left for me to register. At least none I am aware of. What people are playing via SLAL aren't animations made for DD. They might be bound animations involving all sorts of devices in all sorts of poses. That doesn't mean I can use them. I can use them only if they fit a specific pose used by a specific type of DD device. E.g. ALL DD armbinders use the same arms pose. Without any exception. If a 3rd party armbinder animation uses a pose just 10% off DD's, the result would look really wrong. And the worst thing is that a DD bound animation can NOT include any hard-coded restraints (= anim objects), as DD has to be able to use the same animation for ANY restraint of its class. Armbinders don't just come in black leather. They come in white leather, too. And black latex. Somebody made a pink set. You get the idea. And it ALL needs to look right, even if some DD modder implements a purple armbinder in her mod. The animation has to fit the ACTUALLY worn device. Which the animations cannot possibly know, so they have to work the same way, no matter the color of your armbinder. That's the big misconception people have about DD animations. That all these "bound animations" out there would be perfect to use for DD, when none of them is that's not already in DD. So they do things like forcing somebody's SLAL animation in place of the actual DD bound animation and then complain to me that it doesn't look right. When it can't EVER look right. Or use mods altering the behavior of the DD filter, with the same (crappy) results. Apparently there is even a mod out there registering internal DD bound animations to SexLab. Which is such a stupid thing to do that it's not even funny. I really wonder if whoever wrote that patch ever wondered why I was writing so much code just to AVOID registering these animations to SexLab. Because I love wasting my time so much? That must be it! But yes, the result of doing that would obviously be bound DD animations be randomly used by every Tom, Dick and Harry mod making a call to SexLab that matches ANY one of the tags used by the DD animation and not EXPLICITLY forcing SexLab to use ALL of the tags, which rarely is implemented in this way. So you'd see rubbish like actors assuming the bound armbinder positions even if they're not bound. Or assuming armbinder positions if they're wearing a yoke. Thing is that people then complain to ME about DD being bugged. And that's when I get really, really, really frustrated. Because it's not MY fault if people ruin DD with stuff like that. The animation filter in DD does exactly what it's supposed to do. Except of course when people mess around with it, not knowing what they're doing. Perhaps it's my mindset. I guess I am no "modder". I am a software engineer who happens to develop mods. The wild-west attitude of some modders who think they know it better than the person who wrote the original and then release "tweaks" and "patches" altering the original in way that it no longer functions as intended (or doesn't really function at all anymore, in case of the DD filter) is really something you usually don't encounter in real-life software development. And I don't get it. Gosh, I wish somebody would make a few more bound animations meant for DD. I get it when people say that looking at the same animations is getting old after a while. I really do. By nature of what I am doing, I look at them more than most of you do. But I can't conjure up animations and nobody lately seemed to have an interest in making a few more to merge to DD. But butchering DD's features that make sure it's playing the correct animations and these only isn't going to help. /rant The thing is there are some more animations that are not on DD. Bakafactory has a few scattered around his pack (and his yoke animation is in my eyes the best one there is), and there is also FunnyBizness' ArmBinder Creatures SLAL PACK 1.8 which is the only place I know where I can find actually bound creature animations. About the animObject... I don't know if it can be programmed, but isn't there a simple way to make them not appear? (I know the animations can even run without installing animObjects. Before DD5, I used Sexlab utility plus's filter exclusively for a long while. It was sometimes unable to tell the difference between front cuffs and back cuffs, and other times unable to tell the difference between armbinder and elbowbinder, but these are all tag problems within the animations that can be fixed in the next release of their mods, or via SLATE. When I came to DD5 I enabled its filters and disabled the utlity's DD filter (because it is just one feature of this utility. No one made a mod JUST to break and rebuild DD. The utility is useful for many more things such as unbound furniture animations selection based on actual furniture etc.). I am not an idiot. I knew I shouldn't use two conflicting filters at once and waste your time. Thing is I forgot I also had a separate thing that registers the DD animations in SLAL (for the sake of the utility's filter) and I forgot this thing existed and stayed on even after I disabled the filter. That made my mistake, and I am sorry about it. But as things stand, even if someone did make some more animations for DD, it would have to be re-released to include these animations (or just pile delta patches). And if someone finds some random set of animations that were either made with DD in mind or luckily enough were made with an animObject that is exactly DD-sized in mind, there is no way to add these. This is why people who do find at least one more animation that they want in, or want more creature support (I didn't yet get to test if draugur or spiders are smart enough to go for the mouth when the character is wearing a chastity belt, etc) currently have to resort to disabling the DD filter completely and using alternatives. The suggestion of DDAL means the filter stays in DD but animations can be added from existing/new mods without being registered by SLAL and without messing with the way unbound filters work. All of this while not forcing you to keep tabs of all animations that ever existed or get created in the future. I can't speak for other modders but I think if it exists they will also stop making their own filters that circumvent the system. The external filters currently exist only because they provide features that DD doesn't have. I bet they will stop existing when they are unneeded. Meanwhile, after a while of experience, I can say that currently 2 methods work without misfires (as far as human animation or arm-free creature animations are concerned): 1. DD5's filter. 2. Registering DD animations into SLAL and using the utility's filter. Method 1 chooses the animation faster. (About 3 seconds on average instead of 7 in method 2) Method 2 enables the few more relevant animations scattered across SLAL packs (with the occasional rare elbow/armbinder mismatches, and back/front cuff mismatches, when the animations are not tagged properly. EDIT: Just to clarify, this is not written in an angry tone or something. I totally get where you are coming from, and the "/rant" was in place. But I think it is mainly because of my mistake that it makes it look like the Utility's filter "butchered" the system. When it is disabled *properly* (which means, unregistering the animations from SLAL) it works well, and when enabled properly it works well. But even so, I think a dedicated system made by you would be better, if only for the fact it will be dedicated (and not part of a larger mod that does other things too). And maybe if that mod exists, people will make more bound animations that fit DD, just as the way SLAL made more people make animations. Maybe people don't make DD animations now because it is too hard to get them in the mod? 1
willisonnnnnnn Posted October 7, 2020 Posted October 7, 2020 9 hours ago, thedarkone1234 said: It is more likely the problem you see is bad usage of keywords from the creator of the animations than a mod problem. Currently, however, DD doesn't provide any way to register more animations into it (which is a bit of a shame). If you want appropriate SLAL animations to play while you wear DD items, the only option I know is: Turn of the DD animation filters and use the filters from Sexlab utility plus. However, Sexlab Utility plus will ONLY get animations from SLAL, and not from the seperate DD batch (thought I think something there adds the DD animations to SLAL). You might still get absolutely wrong animations if the creator tagged them wrong though. @Kimy, maybe not for the upcoming DD5 version, but it might be benefitial to add a SLAL-like mechanic to DD that allows you to register more animations to DD (on a "use at your own risk" principal, meaning if some idiot wants to register non-bound animations and mess things up, that's on him). You could then also kinda establish a monopoly on the one proper way to tag bound animations (i.e with "bound" or without "bound" tags, "cuffs" and/or "cuffsFront"/"cuffsBack" etc.). Animation creators will need to adjust the tags of their animations for your decisions, and then we can just download DDAL (DD Animation loader) packs and add them on top of DD just as we add SLAL packs on top of Sexlab. EDIT: Coming to think of it, I suppose it makes more sense that DDAL would be a separate mod, just as SLAL is separate from sexlab. Would also prevent an MCM inflation of DD. Please consider it. It would be awesome! Many thanks, it finally worked.
Schalli1980 Posted October 7, 2020 Posted October 7, 2020 Hi i have a short question about the Forbidden Tome Quest. Is it somehow possible to escape the Belt without giving in to Urag? I just hate that Orc. I tried many Keys but non of them fit. I asked Blacksmiths and others for help but no one could do anything and i'm out of ideas.
Schalli1980 Posted October 7, 2020 Posted October 7, 2020 On 10/6/2020 at 12:48 AM, Windu191 said: I have a problem and I can't for the life of me figure out how to fix it. Armbinder, yoke and even gag animations don't work, but only after a certain time. When putting on the devices all the animations work correctly, but after a few seconds/minutes (differs each time) the animations stop working. In all the years I have used DD I have never had this problem. I have all the requirements, they are all up to date, FNIS didn't give any errors, Bodyslide didn't have any problems and the animations DO WORK, just not for long. This is driving me up the wall. Does anyone have any idea what might be causing this? i figured that out by myself in the past. The solution for me was a new clean save. after creating a new character all these issues where solved for me.
swords and sandals Posted October 7, 2020 Posted October 7, 2020 15 minutes ago, Schalli1980 said: Hi i have a short question about the Forbidden Tome Quest. Is it somehow possible to escape the Belt without giving in to Urag? I just hate that Orc. I tried many Keys but non of them fit. I asked Blacksmiths and others for help but no one could do anything and i'm out of ideas. As far as I can remember, the only way of safely getting out of that belt was to finish the quest. I'm not sure it ever had an actual key. But it's been years since I played it, since it's also been years since it was actually included in this mod. If you're playing it now, you presumably either have a very old version of Integration installed, or you tracked down the devious deviants esp from somewhere and are using it with the current Integration - which it likely doesn't fully work with. I think there is a debug option in the current DD MCM to remove all devices, including quest devices, but it comes with a warning that it will almost certainly break related quests.
Schalli1980 Posted October 7, 2020 Posted October 7, 2020 1 hour ago, merManc said: As far as I can remember, the only way of safely getting out of that belt was to finish the quest. I'm not sure it ever had an actual key. But it's been years since I played it, since it's also been years since it was actually included in this mod. If you're playing it now, you presumably either have a very old version of Integration installed, or you tracked down the devious deviants esp from somewhere and are using it with the current Integration - which it likely doesn't fully work with. I think there is a debug option in the current DD MCM to remove all devices, including quest devices, but it comes with a warning that it will almost certainly break related quests. my version of ddi is 4.3 but its true that i have the devious deviants esp running. i was just fooling around a bit with console comands and i found a queststage to complete the quest and it mentioned "i managed to escape the belt by myself" so i was wondering if it is possible to complete that quest other than usual.
Kimy Posted October 7, 2020 Posted October 7, 2020 15 hours ago, thedarkone1234 said: The thing is there are some more animations that are not on DD. Bakafactory has a few scattered around his pack (and his yoke animation is in my eyes the best one there is), and there is also FunnyBizness' ArmBinder Creatures SLAL PACK 1.8 which is the only place I know where I can find actually bound creature animations. That's correct of course. Adding creature animations would be nonsensical for DD to do, because DD doesn't support creatures at all. 15 hours ago, thedarkone1234 said: About the animObject... I don't know if it can be programmed, but isn't there a simple way to make them not appear? (I know the animations can even run without installing animObjects. Anim objects have to be declared in FNIS / CK. I am not aware of a simple way to turn them invisible at runtime. Actually removing the AO from an animation is straightforward enough just by creating a FNIS entry without the AO, but still leaves the other, bigger problem, that chances of the pose used by the animation is matching the relevant DD device type are a good approximation to zero. To be used by DD, the animation has unfortunately be made specifically for it. 15 hours ago, thedarkone1234 said: That made my mistake, and I am sorry about it. Ah, don't worry about it! 15 hours ago, thedarkone1234 said: luckily enough were made with an animObject that is exactly DD-sized in mind, This alone would be about as likely as a lottery win, but even IF the AO magically matches the size of the DD device of the same type, it's STILL not going to look right. Let's assume the AO used was a black armbinder, but the player is wearing a pink one. It's not working, because the animation is STILL using the hardcoded black one. Oh, and DD is not going to hide the pink one either, so you're going to wear two armbinders of same size but different color... 15 hours ago, thedarkone1234 said: there is no way to add these. This is why people who do find at least one more animation that they want in, or want more creature support (I didn't yet get to test if draugur or spiders are smart enough to go for the mouth when the character is wearing a chastity belt, etc) currently have to resort to disabling the DD filter completely and using alternatives. Even if I decided to add support for creatures (not going to, but just for the sake of the argument), the set made by FB contains animations only for armbinders, IIRC. You'd still have zero animations for all the other wrist restraints in DD. Solving this issue ALSO needs animators to step up and make them. 15 hours ago, thedarkone1234 said: I can't speak for other modders but I think if it exists they will also stop making their own filters that circumvent the system. The external filters currently exist only because they provide features that DD doesn't have. I bet they will stop existing when they are unneeded. The one actual feature DD really doesn't have is creature support. I understand that and I know how popular that stuff is. I am still not going to add that to DD. Now, if there would be a comprehensive pack for bound creature animations out there (not just for armbinders), and some modder experienced enough to create it would volunteer to make an external mod working like the DD filter, just for creatures (e.g. WITHOUT registering these animations to SexLab, because that's still a stupid thing to do), I could always make the internal DD filter fire a mod event in case the filter aborts processing because of creatures involved in a scene. The external mod could then pick up the event and start whatever animation it wants. That would be trivial enough to do and I wouldn't have to work on the creature stuff myself. 15 hours ago, thedarkone1234 said: And maybe if that mod exists, people will make more bound animations that fit DD, just as the way SLAL made more people make animations. Maybe people don't make DD animations now because it is too hard to get them in the mod? Getting a new non-creature animation into DD involves the really hard step of sending it to me together with a note that I have permission to add it to DD. That's...all...
Windu191 Posted October 7, 2020 Posted October 7, 2020 9 hours ago, Schalli1980 said: i figured that out by myself in the past. The solution for me was a new clean save. after creating a new character all these issues where solved for me. I'll try that as well. On 10/6/2020 at 2:35 AM, Tenri said: Do you have slaverun installed? It is know to break idles like armbinders after a period of time in the current (3.0 beta?) release there is a fix for that here I have uninstalled it and I haven't encountered the armbinder bug (yet). The bug with the gag still exists though, everytime I load a save the gag animation breaks and the mouth stays closed. The only way to fix it is to unequip and reequip the gag.
Windu191 Posted October 7, 2020 Posted October 7, 2020 Didn't work unfortunately, made a new character, put the gag on and the animation works. I save, quit then load the game and the animation is broken.
dnoah Posted October 7, 2020 Posted October 7, 2020 24 minutes ago, Windu191 said: Didn't work unfortunately, made a new character, put the gag on and the animation works. I save, quit then load the game and the animation is broken. The DD gag effect reapplies expression on game load. The only two ways it could be broken is, if there's another mod applying its own expressions on top of that, or if it's a custom gag (from other mod) with its own gag effect, which doesn't reapply expression. EDIT. And by expression I mean phoneme modifier, at least that's what it's called there.
Zaflis Posted October 8, 2020 Posted October 8, 2020 @Windu191 @dnoah Gags are actually broken in the DD 4.3a, you need a script fix: https://www.loverslab.com/topic/21484-devious-devices-integration-43a-2019-09-10/page/458/?tab=comments#comment-2760447 It is already fixed for the upcoming DD 5. 2
dnoah Posted October 8, 2020 Posted October 8, 2020 3 hours ago, Zaflis said: @Windu191 @dnoah Gags are actually broken in the DD 4.3a, you need a script fix: https://www.loverslab.com/topic/21484-devious-devices-integration-43a-2019-09-10/page/458/?tab=comments#comment-2760447 It is already fixed for the upcoming DD 5. Yeah. Forgot about that. Sorry.
Windu191 Posted October 8, 2020 Posted October 8, 2020 12 hours ago, Zaflis said: @Windu191 @dnoah Gags are actually broken in the DD 4.3a, you need a script fix: https://www.loverslab.com/topic/21484-devious-devices-integration-43a-2019-09-10/page/458/?tab=comments#comment-2760447 It is already fixed for the upcoming DD 5. I see, I will try that out thanks! EDIT: That did the trick!
WhatRules Posted October 8, 2020 Posted October 8, 2020 So the ring gag is supposed to allow oral, but the ring is so small that it clips with any size above 1, and it looks lame. Either make it open the mouth more with a bigger ring(we're talking 50% bigger), or don't allow oral. Where is the expression for the ring gag set? I want to take a look at what can be done with it.
DayTri Posted October 8, 2020 Posted October 8, 2020 15 minutes ago, saltshade said: So the ring gag is supposed to allow oral, but the ring is so small that it clips with any size above 1, and it looks lame. Either make it open the mouth more with a bigger ring(we're talking 50% bigger), or don't allow oral. The schlong size depends on the plugin, not just the number (smurf average is smaller than vectorplexus regular) so the size really varies a lot per user, fyi.
cbvbadlarry Posted October 8, 2020 Posted October 8, 2020 Does anyone know if there is a way to disable all the human sounds when devices are equipped? im playing as an argonian so if i cant have argonian sounds id rather have no sounds.
WhatRules Posted October 9, 2020 Posted October 9, 2020 15 hours ago, DayTri said: The schlong size depends on the plugin, not just the number (smurf average is smaller than vectorplexus regular) so the size really varies a lot per user, fyi. Is that supposed to be an argument for the ring being big enough? It's not.
Crota Posted October 13, 2020 Posted October 13, 2020 Anyone else having problems with the device animations being overrided by normal movement animations? Happens with all devices that use a new set of animations for me (armbinders, yokes, hobble dresses, straightjackets). When the device is equipped it will run properly for up to 30seconds I would say then it switches back to my default character movement animations. I can quicksave and reload to restore the device animations but it still only lasts for about another 30seconds before switching back again. I use "Her Animations" from nexus to alter defaults character movements. I would try playing without this and see if the animations don't reset to normal when wearing a device but I can't stand basic skyrim animations, they are not feminine or sexy enough. I have used other animations as well like victoria high heels walk and catwalk in the past and had the same problems. Any solution here?
Tenri Posted October 13, 2020 Posted October 13, 2020 1 hour ago, Crota said: Anyone else having problems with the device animations being overrided by normal movement animations? Happens with all devices that use a new set of animations for me (armbinders, yokes, hobble dresses, straightjackets). When the device is equipped it will run properly for up to 30seconds I would say then it switches back to my default character movement animations. I can quicksave and reload to restore the device animations but it still only lasts for about another 30seconds before switching back again. I use "Her Animations" from nexus to alter defaults character movements. I would try playing without this and see if the animations don't reset to normal when wearing a device but I can't stand basic skyrim animations, they are not feminine or sexy enough. I have used other animations as well like victoria high heels walk and catwalk in the past and had the same problems. Any solution here? Since I know you've got slaverun this should fix it.
Crota Posted October 14, 2020 Posted October 14, 2020 8 hours ago, Tenri said: Since I know you've got slaverun this should fix it. Is it slaverun that's the problem all together? Cause I have no problem uninstalling that.
Tenri Posted October 14, 2020 Posted October 14, 2020 11 hours ago, Crota said: Is it slaverun that's the problem all together? Cause I have no problem uninstalling that. Slaverun has some issues, I wouldn't say necessarily that they are worth uninstalling over though I myself have stopped using it because of them. But in the case of breaking idles it is just over zealous when it comes to making sure the 'new to the mod' crawling feature was having the player in the correct animation. You can just install the edited script I linked and not use the crawling feature, then armbinders/yokes/etc. and other idle mods should work properly as long as you don't have anything else that breaks them. The current release of Slaverun is an early beta for some of the new features, and the author hasn't done anything with it in a long time.
Crota Posted October 15, 2020 Posted October 15, 2020 8 hours ago, Tenri said: Slaverun has some issues, I wouldn't say necessarily that they are worth uninstalling over though I myself have stopped using it because of them. But in the case of breaking idles it is just over zealous when it comes to making sure the 'new to the mod' crawling feature was having the player in the correct animation. You can just install the edited script I linked and not use the crawling feature, then armbinders/yokes/etc. and other idle mods should work properly as long as you don't have anything else that breaks them. The current release of Slaverun is an early beta for some of the new features, and the author hasn't done anything with it in a long time. Yeah the FIx seemed to work for the most part thanks. It's a little janky still when I am walking up hill for instance you can clearly see the loop of the animation, but hey that's still better than before. Cheers.
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