Sexlab Survival

[Lupine00]

2 hours ago, Monoman1 said:

You can't really swim with your arms tied so really you've lost control.

This isn't entirely true. Most good swimmers can do so and may practice it for practical safety reasons.

e.g. in case you fall in the water and your arms get tangled in your coat while you're trying to get out of it.

This is taught to ... children ... in lifesaving and survival.

 

It's also a technique that is part of practice to improve strokes that in theory rely on arm movement.

 

I quote from a discussion of "dolphin kick" technique:

Spoiler

When discussing the importance of dolphin kick, the swimming community tends to focus on a swimmer’s underwater kicks in backstroke, freestyle, and butterfly races. Coaches are constantly screaming at their swimmers to stay underwater off each wall and strengthen their underwater kicking to get a leg up on the competition.

 

What many people do not realize is that dolphin kicks can be used to improve even more than just your efficiency underwater. The power that the dolphin kick releases can be utilized in a lot more areas of swimming, whether in use of drills or in race strategy. Here are a few drills and strategies to capitalize on speed for your next race.

 

Front cuffs also count as heavy bondage, and would definitely be swimmable; it's even a movie cliche. A wooden yoke might actually act as a flotation device (depends on the wood I suppose), or alternatively make you sink head-first. A steel yoke would probably be dangerous in deep water, but much less so in the waist-deep example above.

 

I can't think of anyone that could swim in heavy steel plate armor though ... which curiously enough ... vanilla allows.

 

That reminded me ... there is definitely at least one mod that makes it so you can (must) walk on the seabed in heavy armor, instead of being able to swim. The sink instead of swim mechanic has already been done.

[Monoman1]

24 minutes ago, Lupine00 said:

You can apply a physics force to you fall.

If you apply a modest force (downwards only) it should work reasonably well, emulating a sink rather than a plummet, and won't result in nasty things like pushing you through the world.

Hmm ok. But my main problem with this is that it gives the player plenty of time to cross whatever. Vanilla drowning time is very very long. The only place they might not be able to cross might be the harbor to solitude. The whole point of the mechanic is to train your brain to have you use the road/bridge/town instead. 

 

This is akin to another mechanic on my wish list. Tripping and falling while standing on extremely slanted surfaces (Eg mountain sides etc). Not because it's realistic but because you use it to exploit the absolutely abysmal AI pathfinding. We all do. If you had a chance to trip and plummet down the side you'd think twice about trying to escape down the side of that mountain like a goat. 

29 minutes ago, Lupine00 said:

That's funny, but what about people who already installed those mushrooms? 

Menu toggles of course. Default will still be your own mushroom meshes. 

Toggle on + cum addiction above threshold => swap models. 

25 minutes ago, Lupine00 said:

I quote from a discussion of "dolphin kick" technique:

Ah now you're getting into swimming simulator skyrim edition terrority 

I don't believe there's a swimming trainer in skyrim. Plus keep in mind these technique are all fine in a nice calm pool/lake. Try it in a white river with stones and drops while being chased by bandits and wearing an armbinder and let me know how it goes

[Lupine00]

1 hour ago, Monoman1 said:

Try it in a white river with stones and drops while being chased by bandits and wearing an armbinder and let me know how it goes

Will try, as soon as I can run cross-country in armor without tiring for 20 hours straight, then slay a dragon with a bow at the end of it.

Assuming I can find bandits.

 

In practice, the cold is enough to keep you out of most water in Skyrim.

 

Also, you could adjust the hold-breath time. Or make the player walk slower under water; that's assuming of course that some lame bondage mechanic isn't already making you walk at the speed similar to that of a shadow on a sundial, or just frozen in place.

 

 

Also, this...

https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrimspecialedition/mods/26735

and this (from 2012)

https://skyrim.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/13736

but I can't remember the mod that did the walking underwater ... it had combat changes too I think.

Maybe it's an encumbrance mod?

 

I think the idea of having to take all your clothes off to swim well mechanic is more "SLS" than the drowning because you're in an armbinder (or hobble dress)?

Though perhaps you can swim just fine in a hobble dress, especially if it comes with a pretty mermaid tail?

 

 

Punished for standing on slopes?

I have a feeling that trying to implement that would end badly.

If you've ever written a physics simulator for things that move over rough ground, you discover that there are serious problems of scale, and with discontinuities that seem small to the player but which technically are rather large.

 

There's also the problem that determining the terrain type probably requires the same hack as Barefoot Realism, and that is horrid and performance sucking, with a certain tendency to save-bloat. If it doesn't BFR could get a nice performance improvement.

 

There are mechanics that can stop you jumping while bound, which tend to limit you from going up those slopes anyway, and SLD already has stumbles, trips and falls under player configuration, including for devices.

 

[valcon767]

swimming .. personal thoughts 

 

toggle should (hopefully) prevent or solve most issues.

 

keeping it simple if the mechanic is there (and not toggled off) i would say the rate of loss should be stamina first (at about the same rate as sprinting on land),

then lose health (probably at about half the rate stamina drained off at).  this would give people some time where they can survive in the water, but make it so it is 

not a preferred option.  it should also have a maximum amount of time you can survive, so that fording a stream and eventually a river is possible, but a pond (even if

very high level), is dangerous in the extreme and trying to cross a lake or bay will always fail.

 

restrictive devices lower your speed so would lower the amount of distance you can swim (or wade submerged) probably double or triple rate of loss.  this is where a player is responsible to toggle it off if they have a waterbreathing enchantment in effect.

 

maybe have it be a skill progression type thing (the more you do it and survive, the longer you can do it)?

 

shrug .... just my personal thoughts on it.

 

use or discard as you see fit.

 

[audhol]

Perhaps a dose of penis mushrooms could give you the ability to walk on water, if not you've still got your old Dobin the faithful horse to carry you through the water on his back, if he gets wet he might want an extra service though!

[repent-harlequin]

@Monoman1 Are there any good tutorials you found helpful when crafting SLS/STA?
The mod I want to try making will likely have a similar structure.
I script for a living, I just don't really understand where to start.

I found plenty of tutorials for making quests/NPCs/areas, but I'm not really sure how to start with more event driven mods like these.

[mangalo]

10 hours ago, Monoman1 said:

Tripping and falling while standing on extremely slanted surfaces (Eg mountain sides etc)

 

That's an interesting feature,  I hope you'll manage to implement it.  wouldn't it be a bit script intensive, though ?  Maybe a SKSE plugin could help you detect the slopes or if it's raining ?

 

On a side note, I've been using Slaverun a lot and needless to say my character is now Cum addicted (ravenous).  I really like those corruption mechanic but I'm not a big fan of the stamina regen debuffs.  I think that a better approach would be to lower the stamina points, not its regen rate.  I have a mod (Wildcat i think) that adjusts speed based on stamina, and because of SLS, my stamina is always close to none, meaning my character is always walking.  I know it's really specific to my playstyle, but I wanted to give my two cents on it.

[Monoman1]

10 hours ago, Lupine00 said:

Punished for standing on slopes?

 

53 minutes ago, mangalo said:

That's an interesting feature,  I hope you'll manage to implement it

Oh I'm not even going to try this. I'm fairly sure it'd be impossible to do. Or at least impossible to do well. It's just a pet peeve of mine. Even before I discovered LL. 

 

 

Regarding swimming... This is kind of turning into a big thing. Never intended it to be a big thing. It's a simple addition to devious effects. Took about 10 extra lines of code if even and one additional spell. That's it. Not prepared to add much else to it. Might see can I 'push' the player down in the water maybe. See if it creates a nice effect. But other than that....

 

 

[Monoman1]

1 hour ago, deadlydawn said:

Are there any good tutorials you found helpful when crafting SLS/STA?

Not really... I'm kind of a 'learn by doing' type guy so it's mostly been trial and error (mostly error some would say :P). But resources you'll probably use:

 

1. Creation kit wiki 'Scripting Reference'. You'll probably use this the most really. Pick an object type (Actor etc) as see what you can do with them - Pick a function that runs on Actor and usually the first link is to all the functions that run on actors. Pay close attention to any notes on the bottom of the pages. Many functions have caveats of some sorts (works for x but not for y). There's also an 'Events' subsection listing all the vanilla events. 

2. Other mod source files.

3. People here. 

 

Learn to cast (not spells).

[Monoman1]

14 hours ago, Monoman1 said:

A brain fart I've had. Once the player becomes addicted to cum (probably from 'cum dump' and up) she starts to see cocks everywhere -> swap out your normal mushroom models for aradia mushrooms found here

Possible extensions to this 'reality shift' for the PC: 

1. Also swap in Glev sexy skyrim textures. Dunno about this. Seems like there's a lot of them....

2. Remove cuirass when you start talking to a male (you're picturing them naked)

3. Set creature framework 'Arousal threshold' to zero - horny creatures everywhere. 

4. Auto open mouth + flop out tongue?

5. When talking to females add cum to their face. Remove afterwards. 

 

Though now I'm thinking it should be based on hunger level and not addiction level. 

[Lupine00]

43 minutes ago, Monoman1 said:

Possible extensions to this 'reality shift' for the PC: 

This has got very strange, and somewhat amusing as a scenario.

 

I would imagine, statistically, that the majority of players using SLS are heterosexual males.

Who, apparently, want to play a first-person role in a nymphomaniac simulator...

Funny.

 

If you want to look at cocks and hunky men, you're on the wrong site, using the wrong assets.

 

 

Cum addiction happens rather easily. It's almost impossible to avoid. There are a lack of meaningful choices that can help avoid it.

One defeat scenario can be enough to push you into it, just as one defeat scenario can be enough to make you a skooma addict.

It's also the only way that characters without money can heal amputations.

 

What this means is that you'll be seeing a lot of sexy mushrooms. Probably not very different from simply installing them as replacers.

 

I found the nightshade model is slightly broken in my game. Is there a version newer than the rev06 file?

[Monoman1]

31 minutes ago, Lupine00 said:

This has got very strange, and somewhat amusing as a scenario.

Well this is through the eyes of your female protagonist. 

37 minutes ago, Lupine00 said:

Cum addiction happens rather easily. It's almost impossible to avoid.

Have you tried gagging yourself?

37 minutes ago, Lupine00 said:

What this means is that you'll be seeing a lot of sexy mushrooms. Probably not very different from simply installing them as replacers.

Which is why it should be based on hunger and not addiction. 

38 minutes ago, Lupine00 said:

I found the nightshade model is slightly broken in my game

Yup.

38 minutes ago, Lupine00 said:

Is there a version newer than the rev06 file?

I don't believe so. 

[Lupine00]

1 minute ago, Monoman1 said:

Have you tried gagging yourself?

It's implemented as a compulsion in DiD. So yes, I have.

It will not save you.

[Monoman1]

8 hours ago, Lupine00 said:

It's implemented as a compulsion in DiD. So yes, I have.

It will not save you.

Well, I didn't exactly go into spreadsheets and graphs when setting addiction decay to 1 point an hour. It was just a guestimate. Timescale is also going to be a factor you need to consider yourself. Also the beta has a 'Don't pause addiction decay when covered/filled with cum' option. 

I'm also open to unique ideas on how to reduce addiction besides the usual go to a priest and pay some gold. 

[mercplatypus]

21 hours ago, Lupine00 said:

 

Maybe it's an encumbrance mod?

 

I believe you are thinking of the Epic Gameplay Overhaul collection, specifically the Movement and Stamina Overhaul module.  Once you run out of stamina you take 16% damage/second for  the drowning effect.

 

 

[audhol]

2 hours ago, Monoman1 said:

I'm also open to unique ideas on how to reduce addiction besides the usual go to a priest and pay some gold. 

 

These are not my meshes, it's a mashup I made in outfit studio.

Could lower cum hunger and slowly reduce addiction whilst blocking all speech and P.C. refuses to take it out if hunger above starving.

If your interested I can build a mesh from scratch or you can ask permision from SoS equipable horse cocks and dibz666

[donttouchmethere]

13 minutes ago, audhol said:

Could lower cum hunger and slowly reduce addiction whilst blocking all speech and P.C. refuses to take it out if hunger above starving.

GENIUS! ?

[audhol]

6 hours ago, donttouchmethere said:

GENIUS! ?

I leave it to you to convince Mr monoman because I think him and Lupine are quite fed up with me chiping in incessantly on their threads!

[Monoman1]

4 hours ago, audhol said:

I leave it to you to convince Mr monoman because I think him and Lupine are quite fed up with me chiping in incessantly on their threads!

I have no problem with banter and ideas. Just don't set expectations. 

Banter away. 

 

Regarding the pacifier dildo. Seems like this is exactly the thing that would ADD to your addiction. Especially if it periodically er... released 'something' for you to swallow.

[mercplatypus]

I have 2 ideas for alternatives to curing addiction.  There are several pharmaceuticals in real life to treat addiction to the most hardcore drugs such as meth and heroin.  The exact effects are different depending on the drug in question and can do anything from effectively taking the drug's place (see Rhode Island's rehab program for treatment of lifelong addicts) to simply interfering with the drug so that even if you feed your habit you don't actually feed the habit (think how anti depressants block the body from absorbing nicotine for people quitting smoking).  A potion that has an effect on addiction could be introduced to facilitate recovery either by ensuring that you never actually satisfy the cravings (interference route) or taking the place of cum (prolonging addiction but removing negative effects).  

 

Priced correctly and sold at alchemy vendors it could function as a sort of midway stop gap to helping the player either mitigate negative effects but delaying recovery or allow full negative effects with addiction decaying no matter how much you try to satiate yourself.  The greater the addiction the greater the amount of time or amount of medicine you need.

 

The second idea is the good old fashioned rehab center for prostitutes.  Dirt cheap entrance fee that would effectively play out the same way vanilla prison sentences play out with complementary devices added to help you stay on the wagon when you leave.   It can be placed at the Temple of the Divines in solitude as a charity run by the city, run by retired prostitutes looking to get young women out of the business and women wanting to keep whores away from their men (they get sick and tired of it burning when they pee too).  No dicks allowed.

 

The strength of the rehab center is that it gives dirt poor players a means of fixing cum addiction at the cost of having some pretty serious BDSM gear attached that will keep them from simply whoring themselves out again.  It might be worthwhile to make the devices time locked devices instead of standard devices to keep you from simply picking the lock or cutting your little helpers off completely.

 

These are just 2 ideas based off of real world solutions that might be suitable for what you are looking for with a little tweaking and poking around.

[Lupine00]

6 minutes ago, mercplatypus said:

A potion that has an effect on addiction could be introduced to facilitate recovery either by ensuring that you never actually satisfy the cravings (interference route) or taking the place of cum (prolonging addiction but removing negative effects). 

Skooma Whore has a Herbal Tea, that can be used to directly reduce addiction.

 

It's a practical mechanic, but it's not much fun, as farming the ingredients for the tea is basically a lot of flower picking.

It's a way to get rid of skooma addiction, which may be necessary if you want to get back to playing the game, but chugging down fifty herbal teas is unimmersive.

 

This was a design issue I agonized over going back a long way, with my Skooma Whore replacer mod.

 

I had the idea that I would replace bulk consumption of cooked-up-products with some kind of quest, more like DCL Cursed Collar, that ended in an NPC "helping" you get over your addiction with some bondage scenes. So overall, it would be like Cursed Collar meets PoP... But that was an ambitious idea and I never even started on realizing that part of the mod.

 

There are clear parallels to this idea to the "rehab center" mentioned by @mercplatypus, though my concept was more about the PC persuading an NPC to help them undergo that experience in a unique ad-hoc way, rather than suggesting that the world of Skyrim would have social services ... which is just too immersion shattering for me to cope with  

 

I already struggle with some of the ideas being introduced in Skyrim, both vanilla, and LL, such as guards acting like police, Jarls acting more like city mayors than Jarls, country-wide taxation systems, toll systems that charge you to leave a city rather than enter it, and so on. Some of these things are expedient to create interesting gameplay, and others are not. Cum recovery clinics may be an absurdity or anachronism too far for me.

 

But what is cum addiction actually for?

Spoiler

 

Cum addiction seems like a mechanic added to balance "troll cum heals amputation".

Before that, cum as free food and drink made it somewhat attractive.

Then there was the big cum addiction update that added corruption and configurable lactacid components.

Parallel to this, the creature buddy/breeder stuff was also evolving.

 

The big update didn't add any new positives to the addiction, just made it easier to get addicted and harder to quit. Previously, addiction never really happened.

Now it's somewhat inevitable, depending on your mod mix.

Rather than forcing it down the player's throat (ahem), adding more positive/beneficial incentives to consume cum would have encouraged addiction as a balancing factor.

And now cum addiction effectively tends to force you into creature sex addiction too.

 

Maybe too much degeneracy too fast?

The PC's descent into total degradation occurs in just a few days.

It seems like one day you're a normal adventurer, looting tombs, and then one defeat later, you're a cum addicted skooma whore that spends her entire day covered in horse cum. Even Slaverun doesn't move that fast or that dramatically.

 

Not only does this render the addictions less special, interesting and novel, but it tends to get in the way of playing the game.

 

 

Slowing this down and staging the descent would make it all more effective, and play better too.

 

Giving the player ways to push back that aren't crippling in themselves would add more gameplay from this (a gag is probably worse than cum addiction).

 

So, I think there's potential to make these feature offer more value to the player, and be more dramatic and immersive, by slowing things down and adding some ways to avoid or push back.

 

 

Once you are hyper-addicted it can get to be a bit of a time sink. It's not as bad as skooma addiction for blocking normal play, which is a highly problematic mechanic, but it's still a bit of a problem... You need cum, then you need to find a creature, then you might be glutted, and you haven't even started your day. Curing the addiction, even if it's just setting the payment price, needs configuration options.

 

 

Immersively...

 

Cum addiction as a concept is ... a bit suspect ... but it works as a gameplay mechanic, so I'm not saying it was a bad idea... But even Slaverun didn't inflict such a burden on the poor females of Skyrim. It's basically turning regular-old-cum into something more addictive than Skooma. At least lactacid is supposed to be rare and unusual. Half the women in Skyrim should be struggling with cum addiction, because men that want blow jobs are not exactly ... rare. If cum is so hyper-addictive, how come (no pun intended) everyone doesn't know about this and discuss it? Why don't we see almost every woman in Whiterun queuing up to suck on the horse hosepipe, or covered in a thick layer of sticky white fluid? And the way it gates into animal sex and bestiality ... it can't be denied it's a little contrived.

 

Some contrivance is ok, but ... personally ... I'd have liked to keep the binding between cum addiction and animal sex a lot looser. It should be possible to use all the cum addiction features and get all the up and downsides without turning on a single creature sex feature, and vice versa. As it is cum addiction and creatures have a lot of overlap where you can only use the feature if you enable both.

 

 

It would be nice to remove creature sex from my game. Not because I'm horrified by it, though I don't find it at particularly sexy ... the main reason I don't want it, is because I want to limit the animations I load, and dropping creatures would be a good way to dump some highly situational animations from my game.

 

You need a number of animations just to get minimal coverage across creatures. It's hard enough to get proper coverage for devices and different acts with humans, but multiplying that by each supported (or even useful) creature creates a need for a lot of animations that either don't exist, or are taking slots and getting loaded then rarely ever used (or not even enabled).

 

If it wasn't for SLS making it almost obligatory to be able to have sex with trolls to use the amputation feature (which I want) I would probably dump creature sex altogether. Instead, I'm in a situation where I'm adding extra dogs to my game just to feed a cum addiction that I'm starting to have second-thoughts about the mechanics behind. I appreciate that these are exciting features for some players, but for me the creatures are decidedly non-core and I don't want them in every play through.

 

Maybe I would keep creatures enabled even without cum addiction, and maybe I wouldn't; it would at least be a practical choice. Chaurus and tentacles are something I usually want and Slaverun requires a lot of creature content, but I haven't played the main plotline for that in a while (years?) But the rest? Probably could live without it most of the time.

 

 

[Monoman1]

31 minutes ago, Lupine00 said:

But what is cum addiction actually for?

Basically creature fondling is too convenient (another reason maybe to gate it behind creature corruption) and there's is no 'beg for cock'. I've stalled on that front. Can't seem to come up with anything better than:

"Hey. Want your dick sucked?"

"Sure"

Cue blowjob.

 

Surely there's a prostitution mod that allows you to decide sex type? Gold + cum = win win => no need to 'beg for cock'?

 

1 hour ago, mercplatypus said:

I have 2 ideas for alternatives to curing addiction.

Well the heavy BDSM route is probably out straight off the bat. No DD dependency makes it more difficult. 
If I've learned one thing modding is that people hate dependencies. No shits given for the extra effort needed neither

[mercplatypus]

True enough as far as hard dependencies go I suppose.  I guess it could also work if you can create some sort of deferred payment angle where you have x number of days to pay for your treatment or end up with a bounty on your head.  Either way my thoughts are that it should be something that takes less time than waiting it out and is less beneficial than simply paying a priest to cure you due to being more readily available.

[Lupine00]

4 hours ago, Monoman1 said:

Surely there's a prostitution mod that allows you to decide sex type? Gold + cum = win win => no need to 'beg for cock'?

Usually, the customer requests a service: RP, SW, DCL.

 

I'm fuzzy on SWL, it might let you offer a specific type of service. I forget now ... been too long since I last used it.

 

Then, it's typical for the prostitution mod to play some barely correlated animation, unless it's ME or SWL where you have control over the animations if you want.

It's pretty common for the customer to ask for a blowjob, you agree, then you get a vanilla sex animation that got picked for some odd reason.

 

I know that in the SLD rape code, if it's trying to play oral only because you're belted, it has to jump through some extreme hoops to try and locate oral animations, because the tagging of them is shockingly poor. It may be that I had to search for some explicitly by name.

 

This comes back to prostitution mods being a bad fit, which is why they remain a big problem.

They are trying to solve their own problems and don't have the emphasis that SLS, or DF, or any slavery mod needs.

 

I've summed them up before, and I'll do it again  

• Radiant Prostitution - earn money easily but inn-keeper takes a lot of it, get destroyed by your Wear+Tear mod at the big parties.
• Sex Worker's Life - grind and grind your level up so you can actually make any money, you can choose animations, but there's really nothing but the same endless grind.
• Marie Eden - incompatible with almost every other mod you would ever want it to work with
• Deviously Cursed Loot - you are put in an arm binder. It is not removed. Everyone rapes you and steals your money. Can also be configured to be very easy cash, but there's neither progression, nor special events. None of the distinguishing features of RP or SWL are present.
• TDF Aggressive Prostitution - recruit whores and make them serve you, prostitution is even more basic than DCL.
• Skooma Whore - if you aren't an addict, you get paid a pittance. If you are an addict you get paid in crack. Either way, you'll never make any money.

 

IMHO, prostitution that worked well with SLS would be about trying to avoid acts that addict you without upsetting the customers too much.

You would offer a service, and the NPC would agree or counter-offer.

 

e.g.

 

Excuse me sir, would you like to plow my cunt? It's the best bargain in all of The Rift.

How much will it cost me slut?

100 gold sir. If it please you?

Too rich for your dirty hole. But I fancy a blowjob.

I'll swallow for 50, or you may cum on my face for 40. If you wish?

I think it's worth that much to see you gulping gown my jizz, whore.

As you say sir.

 

Then, for bonus fun, the customer may try to make you swallow anyway, and you can choose to resist or accept.

If you refuse, there's more chance they won't be satisfied with the service, which could lead to other problems.

 

I find that with prostitution, what you usually want most is to avoid is getting pregnant, as that means that later you will be stuck in down for days, unfit to fight.

Secondly, you want to avoid accumulating wear+tear.

Thus, oral is usually preferable, but with SLS it comes with drawbacks.

With the right prostitution mechanics you could offset the SLS drawbacks, by not swallowing, which comes at a different cost.

[bubba999]

2 hours ago, Lupine00 said:

 

Excuse me sir, would you like to plow my cunt? It's the best bargain in all of The Rift.

How much will it cost me slut?

100 gold sir. If it please you?

Too rich for your dirty hole. But I fancy a blowjob.

I'll swallow for 50, or you may cum on my face for 40. If you wish?

I think it's worth that much to see you gulping gown my jizz, whore.

As you say sir.

 

Then, for bonus fun, the customer may try to make you swallow anyway, and you can choose to resist or accept.

If you refuse, there's more chance they won't be satisfied with the service, which could lead to other problems.

 

 

Ok, get to work!