Paid mods and Bethesda announcement on the E3

[vinfamy]

Don't care much about DDProductions and Elianora. I'm sure their creations are good (never used them though tbh), but never been impressed with how they seem to treat other people (especially those who dare to make a suggestion, or god forbids a good criticism) with absolute contempt. Free or paid, that's not how you treat people. Period. If they're selling their mods as a commercial product now, they probably should start by changing their attitude.

 

But is FadingSignal also joining the CC? One of most talented and genuinely nice guy on the Nexus.

[Drinx]

Creation Club doesn't seem that bad. Not that I would pay for armor/weapon and textures mods, though I'm sure someone would, but if say something similar to Falskaar came out i might consider it.

Also... You guys do realize the majority of the modding content featured on this site would not get accepted by bethesda anyway, right? xD

So I'm fairly sure adult modders will have to rely on donations or patreon for a while longer.

[bytion]

I am not worried about people paying mods, but I do when Beth seem losing touch with us everyday.

 

As for the modders, sorry to say, it may not work out the way you wanted,  If people paying stuffs instead of getting it for free, they will be bitching a lot more, and if you can't handle the way they criticize you before, then you are fucked when you roll out paying mods.

 

I work as PR person in a medical company for 5 years, trust me, it's depressing asf.

 

[junkacc]

Here's something new I found in the SkyrimSE and FO4 EULA:

 

You agree not to:

(g) Reverse engineer, decompile, disassemble or modify the Software, in whole or in part;

 

Bye bye script extenders!!!

 

 

[RUD3DUD3]

Here's something new I found in the SkyrimSE and FO4 EULA:

 

You agree not to:

 

(g) Reverse engineer, decompile, disassemble or modify the Software, in whole or in part;

 

Bye bye script extenders!!!

http://f4se.silverlock.org/ script extenders exists for fallout 4 so please stop this already. They are allowed to release their script extenders by bethesda i remember reading a post on late bethesda forums.

[junkacc]

That clause is new for SkyrimSE and FO4. I can't even find EULAs for previous games, apart from the one included in Oldrim CK, which is draconian itself, but still didn't have that clause.

 

Why put a clause like that in if they're not going to enforce it? They'll probably see how it goes and decide whether taking down the script extenders is worth it or not.

[dnoah]

Here's something new I found in the SkyrimSE and FO4 EULA:

 

You agree not to:

 

(g) Reverse engineer, decompile, disassemble or modify the Software, in whole or in part;

 

Bye bye script extenders!!!

My guess is, the F4SE team already sorted it out with Bethesda. At any rate, it is obviously not in anyone's interest to take them down - for the time being, at least.

[Kimy]

Here's something new I found in the SkyrimSE and FO4 EULA:

 

You agree not to:

 

(g) Reverse engineer, decompile, disassemble or modify the Software, in whole or in part;

 

Bye bye script extenders!!!

 

This is just spreading FUD. While Beth -would- have a right to ban script extenders using this clause (which is a part of almost ANY close-source software license I am aware of, and has been for ages), they have always tolerated the script extenders. There is not a single reason to believe that this will change in the future. People need to stop suggesting that Beth is out to kill free modding with CC, unless there is reasonable grounds for this accusation. Right now there isn't any, so this is just a silly attempt to vilify them.

[bicobus]

 

Here's something new I found in the SkyrimSE and FO4 EULA:

 

You agree not to:

 

(g) Reverse engineer, decompile, disassemble or modify the Software, in whole or in part;

 

Bye bye script extenders!!!

 

This is just spreading FUD. While Beth -would- have a right to ban script extenders using this clause (which is a part of almost ANY close-source software license I am aware of, and has been for ages), they have always tolerated the script extenders. There is not a single reason to believe that this will change in the future. People need to stop suggesting that Beth is out to kill free modding with CC, unless there is reasonable grounds for this accusation. Right now there isn't any, so this is just a silly attempt to vilify them.

 

 

Yup, this is also part of the reason BethSoft do not want to get involved with the modding community. If they get involved, a lot of stuff are going to burn because of some legal point here or there. They won't make a statement other than: "here are some tools and have fun". And that's all we will ever get as a community. Nothing supportive is coming, but nothing bad either.

[Asariphile]

 

When does the madness end? What's it going to take? So what if people vote with their wallets, don't buy mods, and don't cave to micro transactions? There will always be some fucking bro to whom games are just a curiosity, not a passion, who is more than willing to shell out some cash. To him it doesn't matter: Sure a buck here, a buck there, what does he care? How does the utter raping of this past-time affect him? Not at all. If gaming goes up in smoke he'll just move on to the next thing. This is whats wrong with gaming today, too many drooling neanderthals who will throw their money at anything. Accessibility has fucked us. Mass Appeal has fucked us. I hope they all rot.

I thought you were kidding and then I saw all the endorsements....

OK look, there are probably tons of games to reverse-engineer + mod, but the current mods aren't going anywhere, are they?

Speaking as a drooling Neanderthal I'm glad they're accessible. 

Being ignored at or lectured to by elitist and anarchists gets old.

There's this one game-player I adore and who I have not figured out, and 99% of the rest are trying real hard to prove they do not care.

I'm reading this extremely vague news headline story about an elitist and his friend not caring with extreme prejudice.

This is some nightmare I made up in my head, right? Nope, it's real.

As long as they don't lock up mods, it's nice a modder can drop by to slum and remark "I just made 3000.00 on my mod", as long as he has the ettiquette to maybe have a smaller free mod. He should be poor?

I'm not getting through to any of you...Modders will LEAVE here to join professions and to Marry and have kids.

What if they could stay and pass along the benefit of their experience because we decide to pay them a bit?

Conversationally speaking of course, Ugh-ugh.

 

My point was that corporations will do shitty things and the average user will support it blindly. I absolutely believe that modders should be compensated for their work. What worries me is that I don't trust Bethesda's motives and plans for the future of the modding community. Creation Club appears on the up and up, but they have tried paid modding before and I don't trust them. Now that the Eye of Sauron has turned it's gaze on modding I wonder how long it will be before the corps and their legions of casual gamers destroy it. You have to understand that as a PC gamer who loves RPGs, I have seen my preferred genre raped by its move to the consoles. In fact, every genre that originated on the PC and moved to console has been systematically destroyed. By destroyed I don't mean ceasing to exist or be popular or profitable, I mean it has lost its soul. RPGs are a shadow of what they once were. Console gamers don't know this because in the golden era of Western RPGs the only games you could play on console were platformers, fighting games, racers, sports titles, or JRPGS.  I am not saying everyone who plays on the console is terrible. What I am saying is there is reason for PC gamers to be alarmed by modding's move to consoles. Because historically, things that PC gamers love getting ported over has never ended well for us. When you try and change something to appeal to a wider audience, it inevitably becomes dumbed down. Casual gamers have such an amazing array of things to play, everything is accessible nowadays, but hardcore gamers, especially those who favor traditionally PC style games, have very few options left to us. Very few games, devs, or even genres fulfill our needs as gamers. And when we see one more thing taken from us to appease the masses it breaks us a little bit. 

[junkacc]

My point is they've been planning this for a long time in the legal aspect.

 

Here's what the oldrim CK Eula says about ownership of new materials modders make:

 

If You distribute or otherwise make available New Materials, You automatically grant to Bethesda Softworks the irrevocable, perpetual, royalty free, sublicensable right and license under all applicable copyrights and intellectual property rights laws to use, reproduce, modify, adapt, perform, display, distribute and otherwise exploit and/or dispose of the New Materials (or any part of the New Materials) in any way Bethesda Softworks, or its respective designee(s), sees fit. You also waive and agree never to assert against Bethesda Softworks or its affiliates, distributors or licensors any moral rights or similar rights, however designated, that You may have in or to any of the New Materials. If You commit any breach of this Agreement, Your right to use the Editor under this Agreement shall automatically terminate, without notice.

 

In other words, you still retain ownership but automatically grant bethesda the right to use it anyway they want.

 

Here's what the new EULA says:

 

(a) All Customized Game Materials created by you are exclusively owned by LICENSOR and/or its licensors (as the case may be) and you hereby transfer, assign and convey to LICENSOR all right, title and interest in and to the Customized Game Materials and LICENSOR and its permitted licensors may use any Customized Game Materials made publicly available to you for any purpose whatsoever, including but not limited to for purposes of advertising and promoting the Software;

[Yami X]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c7ji_euRLoo

 

 

[Blacksythe]

The way they did mods last time was disastrous, I'm happy to let them pay modders to produce some quality work, which I will will be happy to pay for providing.

 

1. It does not effect the modding community as a whole.

2. The work is worth paying for

3. They ensure that the mods released are not poor shoddy representations of quality work done by someone else.

 

 

As a community the only way Bethesda will come after the free mods are if they are copy's of their paid mods re released onto a free site, which will of course affect their sales.

 

One thing I do know is creation kits are going to start coming later and later as the paid modders will get access to it first. Hopefully we can find a leak somewhere

[Guest enip]

Not only that. These special creators will have access to tools the rest of the community won't. And more than likely the creation kit will have limitations and only they will know how to work around it and everyone else won't have access to that. After all, they are in it for the money. Why would they share resources with others? It already happens right now as mods are free. So with money involved, why would they be inclined to share resources with others if it's essential for them to make money from creating content?

 

Also, if a mod that is created exactly the same way as the one behind this Creation Club is free and uploaded to a mod site like Nexus, here or others out there, what will stop Bethesda from pulling a Take-Two cease and desist on these sites? Having Bethesda.net as the only source for their mods would be a huge benefit for Bethesda.

[27X]

 

 

 

 

 Big mod authors like DDproduxtions and Elianora have been accepted in the CC and now I feel like people are completely supporting it when we have popular youtubers such as MxR also endorsing it.

 

They are in the CC ?!?!?!? That's for real ?!?!?!?!

 

 

Best part is neither her nor Hothtrooper have ever made an actual MOD in their life. Placing someone else's content in a leveled list or in a navmesh is about as minimum a mod as you can made short of "I put tatoos on this skin in 5 seconds with a stamp brush"

 

Quite the CC roster what with War Daddy and one other person banned off the nexus for racism.

 

Expecting great things.

 

 

 

Donations

 

The only mods that actually get donations are porn mods, which is why we're having this conversation in the first place.

 

 

I leave donations open to my mods (not adult mods), and some people help indeed, i pay some softwares that i use with these donations, of course is not nothing that we can count as a income, but at least i have the software expenses paid.

 

For the DD mods, to be honest i never ever try a mod from him, don't know if they are good or not, but his and other modders financial situation should be terrible to take this.

 

When i was young, i realize that work is not a hobby, and when a hobby become work, is not a hobby anymore, so you have to do what you are good at, not what you like, and most of the time you need money to make what you like, and in some cases, a lot!

 

 

Considering a couple of the modders already in have crowed about how much money (not time, strangely enough) they've put in, the context probably isn't universal.

 

While it's clear that Beth wants to monetize-in-perpetuity their existing stuff, that's actually a side dividend of basically setting up this paradigm as the de facto method of getting ANY content in their future titles and the new versions of the two main properties, and that's where the actual problem is. By the time the next versions of TES and FO appear, it's pretty clear that Beth wants this to be the standard, not the outlier. 

 

"lifestyle gaming"    

[DoctaSax]

Why would they share resources with others? It already happens right now as mods are free. So with money involved, why would they be inclined to share resources with others if it's essential for them to make money from creating content?

The few modders sharing everything with other modders for whatever purpose will continue to do so. The ones that don't will continue not to do so, and the ones that only do it sporadically or under certain conditions, will continue to do that. I don't see how some people joining the CC will affect any of that.

 

Let's face it, most modders don't share their stuff with other modders as liberally as they could, and nobody ever seems to have a problem with that. So why should modders joining CC be held to a higher standard when it comes to sharing resources?

[ralfetas]

 

 

 

 

 

 Big mod authors like DDproduxtions and Elianora have been accepted in the CC and now I feel like people are completely supporting it when we have popular youtubers such as MxR also endorsing it.

 

They are in the CC ?!?!?!? That's for real ?!?!?!?!

 

 

Best part is neither her nor Hothtrooper have ever made an actual MOD in their life. Placing someone else's content in a leveled list or in a navmesh is about as minimum a mod as you can made short of "I put tatoos on this skin in 5 seconds with a stamp brush"

 

Quite the CC roster what with War Daddy and one other person banned off the nexus for racism.

 

Expecting great things.

 

 

 

Donations

 

The only mods that actually get donations are porn mods, which is why we're having this conversation in the first place.

 

 

I leave donations open to my mods (not adult mods), and some people help indeed, i pay some softwares that i use with these donations, of course is not nothing that we can count as a income, but at least i have the software expenses paid.

 

For the DD mods, to be honest i never ever try a mod from him, don't know if they are good or not, but his and other modders financial situation should be terrible to take this.

 

When i was young, i realize that work is not a hobby, and when a hobby become work, is not a hobby anymore, so you have to do what you are good at, not what you like, and most of the time you need money to make what you like, and in some cases, a lot!

 

 

Considering a couple of the modders already in have crowed about how much money (not time, strangely enough) they've put in, the context probably isn't universal.

 

While it's clear that Beth wants to monetize-in-perpetuity their existing stuff, that's actually a side dividend of basically setting up this paradigm as the de facto method of getting ANY content in their future titles and the new versions of the two main properties, and that's where the actual problem is. By the time the next versions of TES and FO appear, it's pretty clear that Beth wants this to be the standard, not the outlier. 

 

"lifestyle gaming"    

 

 

Indeed, the main problem is what will come with this, of course free mods will always exists, but with all that stuff, will be best to make a bunch of stupid weapons and armors or maybe some guests, and not make a nice DLC...

 

Bethesda is re-releasing skyrim over and over, now fallout is going to the same route, and they don't release a new game, but really, why they should? Skyrim should be selling well with all this console mods dream, now CC for PS4 users, they don't have to release a new game, they are already making a huge money without a new one, is like asking for half life 3, valve will never do it, they don't have to.

 

I am not saying bethesda will never going to make a new game, they will yes, of course, but they don't have to rush, they can just sit their asses and make mods and re-release their games, and between this create a new one.

[D_ManXX2]

 

Why would they share resources with others? It already happens right now as mods are free. So with money involved, why would they be inclined to share resources with others if it's essential for them to make money from creating content?

The few modders sharing everything with other modders for whatever purpose will continue to do so. The ones that don't will continue not to do so, and the ones that only do it sporadically or under certain conditions, will continue to do that. I don't see how some people joining the CC will affect any of that.

 

Let's face it, most modders don't share their stuff with other modders as liberally as they could, and nobody ever seems to have a problem with that. So why should modders joining CC be held to a higher standard when it comes to sharing resources?

 

 

The only reason that is there is no trust even between modding teams / single modders. etc..

 

 

Let's face it, most modders don't share their stuff with other modders as liberally as they could, and nobody ever seems to have a problem with that. So why should modders joining CC be held to a higher standard when it comes to sharing resources?

 

Well if money is involved user can expect something in return.  payment for services etc.. you cant take money and then say fuck off to users..

[Zor2k13]

I think the idea mentioned earlier about cc modders getting access to tools that everyone else would not get seems most likely. They will have it separate because the cc modders will have a workflow with beth employees so there would have to be a software difference somewhere and it would grow increasingly different over time as beth changes how things work for cc.

[arpaschad]

Beyond Bruma is out now in the Nexus...and it's a DLC-sized free mod...

 

testing it out now to see if it would be worth to throw money at...

 

what does it have to do with this topic?

 

maybe nothing...

 

it goes to show that people are still able to make "quality content" in free modding so don't lose hope... CC won't be the "go to" place to get "quality content" I think...

[Guest enip]

That's because it was under development before CC was ever announced. I think if they changed their stance on Bruma and told people "oh, it's no longer free but will be under CC instead" people would give them shit for it. Not implying that they would of done that if that was the case. But if Bethesda wants CC to succeed. they better start bribing these modders to put their work behind CC. Otherwise CC is not going to be much of a thing.

 

That doesn't really matter in this case. CC is more of a thing for testing the waters. But now that it's in place and will be a thing in the future, when TES:6 and FO5 roll out, CC will be a thing and people would have already adapted to purchasing content off of it.

[bicobus]

That and the need for every single contributor to Bruma to agree to switch to CC. And then Bethesda to allow them into CC. Not gonna happen. Especially since Bethesda is working on additional content regardless of the freelancers, I assume they have a set budget and a good idea of what they want to appear in their store.

[Nazzzgul666]

Something that hasn't been mentioned: As far as i can see, modders always produced some more powerful tools than Bethesda without even touching CK. Things like SKSE, or FNIS. And if i get the description right, there is no way to publish a mod in CC that requires those tools. So... i don't see it as a threat for the stuff we like. Maybe i can't get a really cool outfit for free, but i think i can live with that, the one way or the other.

And i hope they won't do something that stupid as blocking people from creating content. Imho mods are the main reason to buy Beth games, if they remove those... at least for me, they won't be really relevant anymore.

 

If they want mods in the same quality and numbers, they would have to build those mods on their own from scratch, or imho more likely: every modder would have to write his own SKSE version if he wants to make a mod needing scripts. I don't see that happen. Maybe for stuff in the size like Enderal, and i guess there it's fair to put it beyond a paywall. 

[Nepro]

I haven't been following whole ordeal with paid modding. Can someone explain how it will work?

[ToJKa]

Basically you are subcontracting for Bethesda. Plans, milestones and QA are worked trough with them. Already existing content is not allowed.

 

Sounds a lot better than the previous half-assed attempt, in paper, at least.