winny257 Posted June 21, 2017 Posted June 21, 2017 here over I laugh at the most! http://itzine.ru/wp-content/uploads/2017/06/700x379xCreation-Club-1.jpg.pagespeed.ic.ot80PuMaLn.jpg Blue that are the ModderYellow is BethesdaAnd White that is the buyer. Many many work, but only one person buys. No good deal for Todd! It should be the other way around. one work and many buy.
pinky6225 Posted June 21, 2017 Posted June 21, 2017 Personally i find it hard to imagine a situation where someone has a PC capable of running modded skyrim at an acceptable performance (yes our definitions of that will vary) but can't afford the lunch money mods will be offered for (and is old enough to be on this site) Are you still living with the parents for free or are you standing on your own two? Are you indebted? Is your pc bought cash or on credit (and if so who's the debtor)? A gift by the family perhaps? Are you working in your learned profession or in the unrelated low-pay sector, full- or part-time, or perhaps in mini jobs? Working at all? These are burning questions in 2017 everyone for themselves has to answer honestly first before one jumps on Bethesda's casino mod slot machine or the like... Yes standing thanks, Yes, Yes, No, No / No / Full , Yes Not sure what relevance that has myself, if your trying to suggest people that are on the bread line now suddenly won't be able to use mods i think you've seriously got your priorites wrong as getting off the bread line would be of higher importance to me than a free mod but each to there own (would also wonder how they pay for the electricity to run the pc or the internet connection and so on) I get people say its in the principle of it, fine no issue with you having principles but since when was that an okay reason to stop others doing something? As you decided it was okay to ask me quite a few questions here is one for you... Have you ever had a subscription to any paid for porn site? - considering the content of this site i expect the answer for the majority to be yes
Jazzman Posted June 21, 2017 Posted June 21, 2017 Not sure what relevance that has myself, if your trying to suggest people that are on the bread line now suddenly won't be able to use mods i think you've seriously got your priorites wrong as getting off the bread line would be of higher importance to me than a free mod but each to there own (would also wonder how they pay for the electricity to run the pc or the internet connection and so on) I get people say its in the principle of it, fine no issue with you having principles but since when was that an okay reason to stop others doing something? Unquestionably. Most impressive. Anyway, I get easily bored by nonsense read into my post. Have a good one. Guess we have no reaction from 3rd party tool creators yet. That'd interest me most.
Kimy Posted June 21, 2017 Posted June 21, 2017 Not sure what relevance that has myself, if your trying to suggest people that are on the bread line now suddenly won't be able to use mods i think you've seriously got your priorites wrong as getting off the bread line would be of higher importance to me than a free mod but each to there own (would also wonder how they pay for the electricity to run the pc or the internet connection and so on) I get people say its in the principle of it, fine no issue with you having principles but since when was that an okay reason to stop others doing something? Unquestionably. Most impressive. Anyway, I get easily bored by nonsense read into my post. Have a good one. Guess we have no reaction from 3rd party tool creators yet. That'd interest me most. No offense, but it's very evident that English isn't your first language, so if people "read nonsense" into your postings, snapping back at them for misunderstanding you is probably inappropriate. And just for the record: For the discussion at hand it is really irrelevant if people can or cannot afford what's offered in CC, so their financial background doesn't matter in the slightest. Video games aren't a necessity of life. If you can't afford them...you can't afford them. End of story. People have no right to get free BMWs either.
pinky6225 Posted June 21, 2017 Posted June 21, 2017 And just for the record: For the discussion at hand it is really irrelevant if people can or cannot afford what's offered in CC, so their financial background doesn't matter in the slightest. Video games aren't a necessity of life. If you can't afford them...you can't afford them. End of story. People have no right to get free BMWs either. I would disagree, we have had plenty of predictions that it will be the end of modding as we know it (and while i don't accept that myself) so if we consider the worst case scenario where it is the end of modding as we know it having to pay less money than i spend on lunch on something that could potentially amuse me for hundreds of hours well thats a bargin to my mind I'm ignoring for the moment all the other benefits you would get in legal entitlements when you move from user of freely provided content to purchaser (in my country atleast - assuming thats pretty much the same the world over)
Kimy Posted June 21, 2017 Posted June 21, 2017 And just for the record: For the discussion at hand it is really irrelevant if people can or cannot afford what's offered in CC, so their financial background doesn't matter in the slightest. Video games aren't a necessity of life. If you can't afford them...you can't afford them. End of story. People have no right to get free BMWs either. I would disagree, we have had plenty of predictions that it will be the end of modding as we know it (and while i don't accept that myself) so if we consider the worst case scenario where it is the end of modding as we know it having to pay less money than i spend on lunch on something that could potentially amuse me for hundreds of hours well thats a bargin to my mind Aye, that's how I view it as well. But people who can't afford them for ANY reason still have no right to complain about people who (try to) charge for their work. That's not their call. I don't really subscribe to that "I am oh-so poor, so you have to work for me for free" mentality. I get that there are people who had tough luck in life and I sympathize with them (although in my experience, 90% of those claiming to be unable to afford video games aren't genuinely poor, they are usually college students who feel they shouldn't be paying for them because they wouldn't have enough left for partying otherwise). But as I said, you don't have a right to get a free BMW either, just because you can't afford one.
Jazzman Posted June 21, 2017 Posted June 21, 2017 Not sure what relevance that has myself, if your trying to suggest people that are on the bread line now suddenly won't be able to use mods i think you've seriously got your priorites wrong as getting off the bread line would be of higher importance to me than a free mod but each to there own (would also wonder how they pay for the electricity to run the pc or the internet connection and so on) I get people say its in the principle of it, fine no issue with you having principles but since when was that an okay reason to stop others doing something? Unquestionably. Most impressive. Anyway, I get easily bored by nonsense read into my post. Have a good one. Guess we have no reaction from 3rd party tool creators yet. That'd interest me most. No offense, but it's very evident that English isn't your first language, so if people "read nonsense" into your postings, snapping back at them for misunderstanding you is probably inappropriate. And just for the record: For the discussion at hand it is really irrelevant if people can or cannot afford what's offered in CC, so their financial background doesn't matter in the slightest. Video games aren't a necessity of life. If you can't afford them...you can't afford them. End of story. People have no right to get free BMWs either. Well, Oxford English is an utmost rare exception on the internet and not just on LL, just sayin'. I ignore the ref. to 'language' for now, it's just a thinly disguised ('no offense, but...') insult that never gets old, the last 404 arrow in the quiver. And that's that. NB I've already realized that I've touched a rare social taboo - to talk about the true being of the individual behind the just pretended in a monetary world. That's the only reason for the nervous replies, there is no other. Have a good one.
pinky6225 Posted June 21, 2017 Posted June 21, 2017 NB I've already realized that I've touched a rare social taboo - to talk about the true being of the individual behind the just pretended in a monetary world. That's the only reason for the nervous replies, there is no other. For us slow people perhaps you could elaborate as to what the "true being of the individual" is
winny257 Posted June 21, 2017 Posted June 21, 2017 And just for the record: For the discussion at hand it is really irrelevant if people can or cannot afford what's offered in CC, so their financial background doesn't matter in the slightest. Video games aren't a necessity of life. If you can't afford them...you can't afford them. End of story. People have no right to get free BMWs either. I would disagree, we have had plenty of predictions that it will be the end of modding as we know it (and while i don't accept that myself) so if we consider the worst case scenario where it is the end of modding as we know it having to pay less money than i spend on lunch on something that could potentially amuse me for hundreds of hours well thats a bargin to my mind Aye, that's how I view it as well. But people who can't afford them for ANY reason still have no right to complain about people who (try to) charge for their work. That's not their call. I don't really subscribe to that "I am oh-so poor, so you have to work for me for free" mentality. I get that there are people who had tough luck in life and I sympathize with them (although in my experience, 90% of those claiming to be unable to afford video games aren't genuinely poor, they are usually college students who feel they shouldn't be paying for them because they wouldn't have enough left for partying otherwise). But as I said, you don't have a right to get a free BMW either, just because you can't afford one. exactly that it is what Bethesda wanted, that the modding community breaks! I am already a few years older and I know the modding scene from the beginning and my knowledge were the mods always FREE. It was even so that people were punished if you wanted money for their mods.
produktmuster Posted June 21, 2017 Posted June 21, 2017 if you had an great mod idea you become a paycheck "Let s say 2000 bucks" But Bethesda owne the rights and the sell it for 2.99 and have a download from 2 millions. where is the profit for mod makers?
Kimy Posted June 21, 2017 Posted June 21, 2017 Well, Oxford English is an utmost rare exception on the internet and not just on LL, just sayin'. I ignore the ref. to 'language' for now, it's just a thinly disguised ('no offense, but...') insult that never gets old, the last 404 arrow in the quiver. And that's that. NB I've already realized that I've touched a rare social taboo - to talk about the true being of the individual behind the just pretended in a monetary world. That's the only reason for the nervous replies, there is no other. Have a good one. Well, if you acknowledge that proper English is hard to come by on the internet, how about giving other people the benefit of the doubt as well, when they obviously misunderstand you, instead of snapping at them? I -really- don't want to offend you, but most of your postings aren't written in the way a native speaker would usually phrase them, so just try to imagine for a second how hard it might be for someone also not perfect in the language to read them. Just food for thought, for the next time you feel like lashing out at somebody for misunderstanding you. And social inequality is -still- not relevant for the discussion at hand. It's not a social taboo (how could it be - it's discussed in media on a near daily basis, and rightfully so!). It just doesn't matter here at all. And for the record, I am VERY convinced that close to 100% of those here who yell "mods should be free and modders have no right to charge for them!!!" would be hyper offended if I walked up to them and demanded to perform whatever profession they are doing for free for me, because I can't or don't want to pay for it. Adopting a freeloader mentality is NOT how to address inequality issues.
LukeDuke Posted June 21, 2017 Posted June 21, 2017 So ''pirated mods'' will be a thing soon? That or slowly killing PC modding scene after so many great years...
Vader666 Posted June 21, 2017 Posted June 21, 2017 exactly that it is what Bethesda wanted, that the modding community breaks! And its funny that its not caused by the actions of Beth but because some people seem to think that content creators are somewhat like slaves... Honestly i don´t care whats going to happen, we will see the results soon enough and its not that we could change anything.
Yami X Posted June 21, 2017 Posted June 21, 2017 Not sure what relevance that has myself, if your trying to suggest people that are on the bread line now suddenly won't be able to use mods i think you've seriously got your priorites wrong as getting off the bread line would be of higher importance to me than a free mod but each to there own (would also wonder how they pay for the electricity to run the pc or the internet connection and so on) I get people say its in the principle of it, fine no issue with you having principles but since when was that an okay reason to stop others doing something? Unquestionably. Most impressive. Anyway, I get easily bored by nonsense read into my post. Have a good one. Guess we have no reaction from 3rd party tool creators yet. That'd interest me most. No offense, but it's very evident that English isn't your first language, so if people "read nonsense" into your postings, snapping back at them for misunderstanding you is probably inappropriate. And just for the record: For the discussion at hand it is really irrelevant if people can or cannot afford what's offered in CC, so their financial background doesn't matter in the slightest. Video games aren't a necessity of life. If you can't afford them...you can't afford them. End of story. People have no right to get free BMWs either. Simple question for you and other modders like you if your so adamant about being paid for your work why don't you open a Patreon like everybody else who want's to gain monetary value with their particular skill set? Why do you need Bethesda to be a middle man for at least with a place like Patroen you'll be maximizing your profits. *Side note I keep seeing these entitlement arguments towards the userbase but for some reason some of you content creators think you're entitled to the users hard earned cash tell me..........what is that about?
Princessity Posted June 21, 2017 Posted June 21, 2017 I've been avoiding this topic because I knew what I would find here but curiosity got the better of me and... yups, the most wretched hive of paranoia and misinformation in the Outer Rim. Okay, since I'm already here and now complaining about complainers, I might as well take the next step and rile everyone up by saying: I like the Creation Club idea, the initial pitch sounded reasonable to me. And further investigation indicated to me that Bethesda has evaluated modders' feedback and this time come up with a business plan that accurately addresses many of our issues. Specifically, all the concerns I had last time regarding curation, retroactive monetisation and accountability. Now that Bethesda plans to be directly involved in the vetting process, development and QA, they can no longer pretend to have no responsibility despite profiting off of it. With the Creation Club, Bethesda will finally be ACCOUNTABLE for the stuff that ends up going up on sale, and that's (as far as I'm concerned) the single most critical difference between their previous attempt and this one. And it's enough of a difference for me to not only give it a chance but potentially consider participating in the programme in the future, if I see that it works and the modders involved in the project can vouch for it. But that's all I'm going to say on the subject (and I'm still not sure why I'm even posting this, people are wrong on the internet every day. Why do I have to tell them they're wrong? What's wrong with ME??). Instead, I'll just admit that TB in his video put my thoughts into words in a more intelligent, eloquent and better informed manner than I ever could so I'll let him speak for me:
winny257 Posted June 21, 2017 Posted June 21, 2017 exactly that it is what Bethesda wanted, that the modding community breaks! And its funny that its not caused by the actions of Beth but because some people seem to think that content creators are somewhat like slaves... Honestly i don´t care whats going to happen, we will see the results soon enough and its not that we could change anything. Of course you can change it, everything can be changed, even a law. It is the people who decide, Not Bethesda! when not a single one Mod buys, then it becomes expensive for Bethesda, because you pay the modders in advance. But who am I? I know that many buy because the saliva drips from their mouths.
Guest Posted June 21, 2017 Posted June 21, 2017 ...because the saliva drips from their mouths. "...their mouth is watering." P.S. no offense to Winny, just the google translator was not very good in this case.
Darkpig Posted June 22, 2017 Posted June 22, 2017 ...because the saliva drips from their mouths. "...their mouth is watering." P.S. no offense to Winny, just the google translator was not very good in this case. No offense Google Translate. English is just messy.
Kimy Posted June 22, 2017 Posted June 22, 2017 Simple question for you and other modders like you if your so adamant about being paid for your work why don't you open a Patreon like everybody else who want's to gain monetary value with their particular skill set? Why do you need Bethesda to be a middle man for at least with a place like Patroen you'll be maximizing your profits. I don't plan to sell mods. Why I am standing up to defend my right to make my own decisions to sell or not to sell the fruits of my labor is akin to a quiet person still objecting to somebody trying to strip their freedom of speech from them. No user has the right to tell me that I cannot sell my stuff, EVEN IF I PERSONALLY DO NOT PLAN TO MAKE USE OF MY RIGHT TO DO THAT. Also, I must have done a poor job advertising my Patreon. It's in my signature... But talking about Patreons - let's not kid ourselves here, ok? You and me both know that the willingness of people to actually donate money to the people putting in a lot of work to bring free mods to the world is fairly limited. Less than 0.1% of the people who downloaded my mods are actually contributing to my Patreon. The sad truth is that most people are happy to just get stuff for free, if they aren't outright forced to pay up. In an ideal world, modders could chose to offer free mods AND pay their bills by doing so, but that's just not how it works. I keep seeing these entitlement arguments towards the userbase but for some reason some of you content creators think you're entitled to the users hard earned cash tell me..........what is that about? You have the right not to buy any product you deem not worthy. No business is entitled to your money.
Yami X Posted June 22, 2017 Posted June 22, 2017 Simple question for you and other modders like you if your so adamant about being paid for your work why don't you open a Patreon like everybody else who want's to gain monetary value with their particular skill set? Why do you need Bethesda to be a middle man for at least with a place like Patroen you'll be maximizing your profits. I don't plan to sell mods. Why I am standing up to defend my right to make my own decisions to sell or not to sell the fruits of my labor is akin to a quiet person still objecting to somebody trying to strip their freedom of speech from them. No user has the right to tell me that I cannot sell my stuff, EVEN IF I PERSONALLY DO NOT PLAN TO MAKE USE OF MY RIGHT TO DO THAT. Also, I must have done a poor job advertising my Patreon. It's in my signature... But talking about Patreons - let's not kid ourselves here, ok? You and me both know that the willingness of people to actually donate money to the people putting in a lot of work to bring free mods to the world is fairly limited. Less than 0.1% of the people who downloaded my mods are actually contributing to my Patreon. The sad truth is that most people are happy to just get stuff for free, if they aren't outright forced to pay up. In an ideal world, modders could chose to offer free mods AND pay their bills by doing so, but that's just not how it works. I keep seeing these entitlement arguments towards the userbase but for some reason some of you content creators think you're entitled to the users hard earned cash tell me..........what is that about? You have the right not to buy any product you deem not worthy. No business is entitled to your money. So basically you feel like users are trying to censor modders rights to sell mods by somehow limiting freedom of speech?Who's doing this? When in reality all people are saying is they are tired of these greedy corporations Nickle and Diming them with these shady Anti Consumer practices nothing more nothing less and when modders decide to side with said people.......... let's be honest here it's not a good look so of course there's gonna be tension such is life. Indeed you do have a Patreon I see your on the right path but that still doesn't explain why modders need Bethesda to be the middleman ya dig? I'll say this Bethesda did a good job of poisoning the well because apparently one side comes of as "greedy" and the other "entitled" . Considering this more of an consumer vs business issue rather than user vs modder.
dnoah Posted June 22, 2017 Posted June 22, 2017 Well, if you acknowledge that proper English is hard to come by on the internet, how about giving other people the benefit of the doubt as well, when they obviously misunderstand you, instead of snapping at them? I -really- don't want to offend you, but most of your postings aren't written in the way a native speaker would usually phrase them, so just try to imagine for a second how hard it might be for someone also not perfect in the language to read them. Just food for thought, for the next time you feel like lashing out at somebody for misunderstanding you. That's... discouraging. I've been avoiding this topic because I knew what I would find here but curiosity got the better of me and... yups, the most wretched hive of paranoia and misinformation in the Outer Rim. Okay, since I'm already here and now complaining about complainers, I might as well take the next step and rile everyone up by saying: I like the Creation Club idea, the initial pitch sounded reasonable to me. And further investigation indicated to me that Bethesda evaluated modders' feedback and this time came up with a business plan that accurately addresses many of our issues. Specifically, all the concerns I had last time regarding curation, retroactive monetisation and accountability. Now that Bethesda plans to be directly involved in the vetting process, development and QA, they can no longer pretend to have no responsibility despite profiting off of it. With the Creation Club, Bethesda will finally be ACCOUNTABLE for the stuff that ends up going up on sale, and that's (as far as I'm concerned) the single most critical difference between their previous attempt and this one. And it's enough of a difference for me to not only give it a chance but potentially consider participating in the programme in the future, if I see that it works and the modders involved in the project can vouch for it. But that's all I'm going to say on the subject (and I'm still not sure why I'm even posting this, people are wrong on the internet every day. Why do I have to tell them they're wrong? What's wrong with ME??). Instead, I'll just admit that TB in his video put my thoughts into words in a more intelligent, eloquent and better informed manner than I ever could so I'll let him speak for me: I agree in principle, but actual accountability doesn't prevent certain gaming studios to release products with some peculiarities, no self-respecting software engineer would be proud of. And that kind of makes one wonder, would that be any different when those picked modders start emerging from Bethesda's "full development ducts", or whatever. Like you implied, it's wait and see (if not cynical). Still, I do think this talk of "killing the modding community" or "the end of modding" is a bit unreasonable. Sure, any company is capable of creating conditions when modding their product becomes unfeasible. But how exactly would that affect a number of intelligent (and/or otherwise talented), creative people that dislike being told what to do - which most of you modders appear to be? Pretty sure no-one's going to bend over and die. And *when* that "killing" happens, a niche for modders' haven kind of game would naturally become available, and the cycle continues.
Guest enip Posted June 22, 2017 Posted June 22, 2017 I'll say this Bethesda did a good job of poisoning the well because apparently one side comes of as "greedy" and the other "entitled" . That's the typical divide and conquer tactic. But notice before paid mods the first attempt, modders never said a thing. But when Bethesda slapped it in our face, now it's a thing and we are entitled. The moment money got involved with modding, drama began. But before, modders were perfectly okay with doing it for free. Otherwise if it bothered them so much, they would of quit modding and not treat it like a chore instead of a hobby.
Jazzman Posted June 22, 2017 Posted June 22, 2017 Well, Oxford English is an utmost rare exception on the internet and not just on LL, just sayin'. I ignore the ref. to 'language' for now, it's just a thinly disguised ('no offense, but...') insult that never gets old, the last 404 arrow in the quiver. And that's that. NB I've already realized that I've touched a rare social taboo - to talk about the true being of the individual behind the just pretended in a monetary world. That's the only reason for the nervous replies, there is no other. Have a good one. Well, if you acknowledge that proper English is hard to come by on the internet, how about giving other people the benefit of the doubt as well, when they obviously misunderstand you, instead of snapping at them? I -really- don't want to offend you, but most of your postings aren't written in the way a native speaker would usually phrase them, so just try to imagine for a second how hard it might be for someone also not perfect in the language to read them. Just food for thought, for the next time you feel like lashing out at somebody for misunderstanding you. And social inequality is -still- not relevant for the discussion at hand. It's not a social taboo (how could it be - it's discussed in media on a near daily basis, and rightfully so!). It just doesn't matter here at all. And for the record, I am VERY convinced that close to 100% of those here who yell "mods should be free and modders have no right to charge for them!!!" would be hyper offended if I walked up to them and demanded to perform whatever profession they are doing for free for me, because I can't or don't want to pay for it. Adopting a freeloader mentality is NOT how to address inequality issues. Well, leave my phrasing to me and don't play the devil's advocate here, your BMW line of argumentation is not exactly what one would expect from an adult either. Imagine how I feel when I try to figure out where the sense in all of it might be and finally reach the conclusion that it's probably just another pompous ego talking to me. Sorry kid, but I don’t find a mouse that roars on the international market particularly funny. So I fear that you’re out of the monetized mod business already before it has begun. Or to quote your bedtime candy: End of story. We are through. No deal.
winny257 Posted June 22, 2017 Posted June 22, 2017 ...because the saliva drips from their mouths. "...their mouth is watering." P.S. no offense to Winny, just the google translator was not very good in this case. English language is a strange language. In germany it is called *Speichel oder Sabber oder Spucke* translated *Saliva or Slobber or Spit* This German sentence is translated in English, die Spucke im Mund = The Spit in the Mouth. me is new that in the mouth water is, Water can be drink, but Saliva has a completely different consistency. Edit: it should by no means be an insult.
winny257 Posted June 22, 2017 Posted June 22, 2017 ...because the saliva drips from their mouths. "...their mouth is watering." P.S. no offense to Winny, just the google translator was not very good in this case. No offense Google Translate. English is just messy. Who do you say that.
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