Paid mods and Bethesda announcement on the E3

[prinyo]

 

 

 

Lets set up an example... if you have someone that abuses you, hits you or calls you names and generally treats you very badly... and then they say they are going to do something great that you will love... do you trust them? Do you get excited? Do you wait in anticipation? Especially when in the past when they stated they would do something great, they ended up shitting on you? I know I wouldn't. I would hope and wish for the best but expect the absolute worse. This is the case here as I see it. .The hatred and distrust hasn't been created in a vacuum it is based on personal experiences of all those posting. Pure and simple

 

That was my point. This discussion is not about the CC because nobody has any idea what it is. I guess in a month or two we can have a discussion about it. 

 

This discussion is about distrusting anything Bethesda says and disliking anything it does. This is happening not only here, it's all over the internet. I'm just surprised at how strong the disillusionment is growing in the past week.

 

P.S. It's not that I don't enjoy it - I hate what they are doing right now more than anybody here. 

[Guest]

 

 

That was my point. This discussion is not about the CC because nobody has any idea what it is. I guess in a month or two we can have a discussion about it. 

 

 

It's a scheme for generating content destined for a cash shop. Content creators not directly employed by Bethesda can pitch a project and if it's approved they will be given access to tools and resources, and they will be paid for their work.

 

Discuss.

[bjornk]

This discussion is not about the CC because nobody has any idea what it is.

Yes we have. [Edited]

 

It's Paid Mods v2.0, as me and many other people have previously stated. They've never given up the idea of monetizing mods, why is it so hard to understand?

[ralfetas]

The funny part, is that i am 99% sure that some modders that rise against bethesda.net are on the CC.

 

As for what we will see there, all those screens that they show on the trailer are not real, most of them, they show when they release bethesda.net too.

[KoolHndLuke]

 They need to incentivize it more for anyone to be interested. You know- like a free microwave or something.  Oh and offer a sizable chunk of the profits to the creators themselves while awarding them free shares in the company's stock and most importantly give them the necessary time to complete what they are working on. Then more ppl might consider it. Oh... and paid airfare for a year.

[RUD3DUD3]

those modders which were part of paid mods 1.0 will definitely be part of CC. i bet they knew about it before the announcement and since its coming this summer they are already making mods for it.

[bjornk]

In a not so distant future we might even see Bethesda trademarking popular mods made by the clubbers and suing others for making *free* versions or using similar titles... You think that's far fetched? Think again...
 
 [Removed tantrum about moderators]

[Kimy]

Gopher is trying to explain why the CK is not "paid mods" and he's basically saying that people will create *content* (ahem, we once called them mods) *for* Bethesda and will be paid by them and what they create will be owned and then will be marketed by Bethesda, instead of the modders themselves. In other words you will be *paying* Bethesda for the *content* the club people create and this is NOT "paid mods" because they are NOT *mods*, but *content* like DLCs. Well, basically mods turn into DLCs so you shouldn't call it *paid mods*! HAHAHAHA! *facepalm*   

From a software development point of view, there is indeed not a sliver of difference between a "mod" and a "DLC". Both are pieces of software adding to and/or altering functionality of a base product they are fully dependent on. Size doesn't matter. There are super large mods and super tiny DLCs.

 

The only difference lies in the business model. Mods are traditionally not affiliated with the game developer, while DLCs are officially sanctioned. Insofar, not calling the CC "paid mods" is even correct.

In a not so distant future we might even see Bethesda trademarking popular mods made by the clubbers and suing others for making *free* versions or using similar titles... You think that's far fetched? Think again...

 

You cannot copyright and/or trademark ideas. As long as I am not stealing their code, their art assets or using their lore, NOTHING keeps me from making a clone of Skyrim with the same story and the same look and feel. People do that all time, which is why 95% of all MMOs are a clone of World of Warcraft. And even now it's frowned upon to use an established mod's name for my own work, so that I cannot do that isn't anything new.

[bjornk]

not calling the CC "paid mods" is even correct.

Perhaps from Bethesda's point of view. You and I on the other hand will be "paying for mods" made by hired modders, nothing changes that fact.

 

You cannot copyright and/or trademark ideas. As long as I am not stealing their code, their art assets or using their lore, NOTHING keeps me from making a clone of Skyrim with the same story and the same look and feel. People do that all time, which is why 95% of all MMOs are a clone of World of Warcraft. And even now it's frowned upon to use an established mod's name for my own work, so that I cannot do that isn't anything new.

I'm not sure if you'll be able to convince Zenimax lawyers with these arguments.

[Guest]

When does the madness end? What's it going to take? So what if people vote with their wallets, don't buy mods, and don't cave to micro transactions? There will always be some fucking bro to whom games are just a curiosity, not a passion, who is more than willing to shell out some cash. To him it doesn't matter: Sure a buck here, a buck there, what does he care? How does the utter raping of this past-time affect him? Not at all. If gaming goes up in smoke he'll just move on to the next thing. This is whats wrong with gaming today, too many drooling neanderthals who will throw their money at anything. Accessibility has fucked us. Mass Appeal has fucked us. I hope they all rot.

I thought you were kidding and then I saw all the endorsements....

OK look, there are probably tons of games to reverse-engineer + mod, but the current mods aren't going anywhere, are they?

Speaking as a drooling Neanderthal I'm glad they're accessible. 

Being ignored at or lectured to by elitist and anarchists gets old.

There's this one game-player I adore and who I have not figured out, and 99% of the rest are trying real hard to prove they do not care.

I'm reading this extremely vague news headline story about an elitist and his friend not caring with extreme prejudice.

This is some nightmare I made up in my head, right? Nope, it's real.

As long as they don't lock up mods, it's nice a modder can drop by to slum and remark "I just made 3000.00 on my mod", as long as he has the ettiquette to maybe have a smaller free mod. He should be poor?

I'm not getting through to any of you...Modders will LEAVE here to join professions and to Marry and have kids.

What if they could stay and pass along the benefit of their experience because we decide to pay them a bit?

Conversationally speaking of course, Ugh-ugh.

[Kimy]

 

not calling the CC "paid mods" is even correct.

Perhaps from Bethesda's point of view. You and I on the other hand will be "paying for mods" made by hired modders, nothing changes that fact.

 

 

Since mods and DLCs are technically equivalent, that's correct. But if you have ever paid for a DLC, you're already wearing the "Been there, done that" T-shirt.

[bjornk]

if you have ever paid for a DLC, you're already wearing the "Been there, done that" T-shirt.

I haven't... I've thought about though, once or twice... Never for Bethesda games...

[Kimy]

 

if you have ever paid for a DLC, you're already wearing the "Been there, done that" T-shirt.

I haven't... I've thought about though, once or twice... Never for Bethesda games...

 

 

Fair enough. Although I think the Skyrim DLCs are worth getting, if on sale.

[D_ManXX2]

btw this thing could get nasty think about it this way all mods now rely completely on dlc's so what is stopping modders to make their mods dependent on the mods released on creation club forcing users to buy that that shit or else the mod will not work.

 

i know many will say why do you even want to play it..  well why not ?? since it is released why release something no one can even play without those dlc anyway, since mods release on creation club are no longer mods but dlc's.

[Deso561PL]

Remember kids don't mess with modders!

 

Look at GTAV for example.

[D_ManXX2]

 

if you have ever paid for a DLC, you're already wearing the "Been there, done that" T-shirt.

I haven't... I've thought about though, once or twice... Never for Bethesda games...

 

 

if you dont have dlc then you are missing on allot of mods. since most mods now rely solely on dlc's there no real great mods left for vanilla game.

[ralfetas]

Remember kids don't mess with modders!

 

Look at GTAV for example.

 

GTA users are making a huge storm on reviews in steam and metacritic, they are really getting attention, bethesda are just getting dislikes on youtube, and i think we should not make the show, these are different situations.

 

What GTA do with mods was something that bethesda could not even think to make, for now... after CC i don't know, and i am almost sure they not sustain that decision.

[protocolk]

People will probably trow stones at me but... I think the creation club is actually a good idea.

First, It doesnt mean the end of free modding, like before ost modders will still put their shit on nexus, pcusers are safe.

Second, it allows ps4 users to get decent mods with external resources.

third and most important... FUCKING UNNOFICIAL DLCS! Things like faalskar, wyrmstooth and beyond skyrim take lots of time and coukld benefit from actually hiring a team!

The dcreation club isnt the end of free modding its a oportunity for Bigger mods, also you dont need to buy if you dont want,just download a pirated mod, theyll appear sooner or later.

[GrimReaper]

People will probably trow stones at me but... I think the creation club is actually a good idea.

First, It doesnt mean the end of free modding, like before ost modders will still put their shit on nexus, pcusers are safe.

Second, it allows ps4 users to get decent mods with external resources.

third and most important... FUCKING UNNOFICIAL DLCS! Things like faalskar, wyrmstooth and beyond skyrim take lots of time and coukld benefit from actually hiring a team!

The dcreation club isnt the end of free modding its a oportunity for Bigger mods, also you dont need to buy if you dont want,just download a pirated mod, theyll appear sooner or later.

 

It would be a nice idea if companies nowadays would be content with making money or even making more money, but no company is satisfied until they get all the money. The modders getting invited into Bethesda's special little club will most likely get their hands on the dev tools and proper documentation, meaning they can skip the ardous process of reverse engineering and hacking Bethesda's code. If they use that to make framework mods - like FNIS or the SKSE - for the next game everyone who wants advanced mods will have to pay to be able to use them, and it doesn't even matter if the mod you want is free or not.

[ralfetas]

People will probably trow stones at me but... I think the creation club is actually a good idea.

First, It doesnt mean the end of free modding, like before ost modders will still put their shit on nexus, pcusers are safe.

Second, it allows ps4 users to get decent mods with external resources.

third and most important... FUCKING UNNOFICIAL DLCS! Things like faalskar, wyrmstooth and beyond skyrim take lots of time and coukld benefit from actually hiring a team!

The dcreation club isnt the end of free modding its a oportunity for Bigger mods, also you dont need to buy if you dont want,just download a pirated mod, theyll appear sooner or later.

 

Sorry, no stones for you, but i think you got this wrong...

 

From what i read, and my concern too, is not the creation club, even because all concept is a little vague for now, but how this will work and what changes we will have in the future because of that, we see how gaming company's behave this days, zenimax is no different, but they play smart, the creation club thing was design together with bethesda.net, what we will see in 2 years? The problem is not CC now, but how they will mess with the modding community on the long run, in special if they don't get the money they want from this.

[Andy14]

(All rights for English errors by Google Translator)

 

Haha, I probably have a lot of fans.

 

In which world do we live? In a world where everything is worth as much as someone is willing to pay for it.

This is a very simple fact.

 

The downside of the medallions is, however, when someone pays, he expects quality.

 

So if someone wants money for his mod - and this mod is scrap - it will be a very short pleasure for the author.

 

Simple economy.

 

And at least honestly more than Patreon and others: I give money every month for a "promise" - sounds like Closed Beta or Early Access. Both versions are not necessarily known to ultimately complete the beta phase or early access phase. Or?

 

But also this works - as mentioned at the beginning - everything is worth as much as someone would like to pay for it.

 

In Japan you pay money for worn panties, in Germany they are washed and donated to the clothes box - free of charge for good purposes.

 

So my statement: Whether Patreon, other possibilities or the direct marketing of mods - yes, why not?

It will make the community somewhat more sensitive and the authors more conscientious.

 

CPU has actually described it quite well - even if the restrictions in its description does not correspond to my ideas.

 

Anyone who does a good job earned a pay for it.

 

And if the price or offer is wrong - market economy.

Faster and easier one can not separate "scrap" from "usable".

 

We live with it every day - simple economics - whether consciously or unconsciously.

 

 

Last word: Nothing is eaten as hot - how it's cooked - so wait

 

[winny257]

People will probably trow stones at me but... I think the creation club is actually a good idea.

First, It doesnt mean the end of free modding, like before ost modders will still put their shit on nexus, pcusers are safe.

Second, it allows ps4 users to get decent mods with external resources.

third and most important... FUCKING UNNOFICIAL DLCS! Things like faalskar, wyrmstooth and beyond skyrim take lots of time and coukld benefit from actually hiring a team!

The dcreation club isnt the end of free modding its a oportunity for Bigger mods, also you dont need to buy if you dont want,just download a pirated mod, theyll appear sooner or later.

 

And you have forgotten a very important point.

All mods are created on the computer, You do not seriously believe that Modder is buying a console to develop and test the mods for console.

I also say it is the end of free modding, Bethesda will no longer on additional revenue renounce!

[Tumai]

 

People will probably trow stones at me but... I think the creation club is actually a good idea.

First, It doesnt mean the end of free modding, like before ost modders will still put their shit on nexus, pcusers are safe.

Second, it allows ps4 users to get decent mods with external resources.

third and most important... FUCKING UNNOFICIAL DLCS! Things like faalskar, wyrmstooth and beyond skyrim take lots of time and coukld benefit from actually hiring a team!

The dcreation club isnt the end of free modding its a oportunity for Bigger mods, also you dont need to buy if you dont want,just download a pirated mod, theyll appear sooner or later.

 

It would be a nice idea if companies nowadays would be content with making money or even making more money, but no company is satisfied until they get all the money. The modders getting invited into Bethesda's special little club will most likely get their hands on the dev tools and proper documentation, meaning they can skip the ardous process of reverse engineering and hacking Bethesda's code. If they use that to make framework mods - like FNIS or the SKSE - for the next game everyone who wants advanced mods will have to pay to be able to use them, and it doesn't even matter if the mod you want is free or not.

 

It is likely that Bathesda will make it themselves and make them exclusively available only for mods behind the paywall - and starting with current games, not just future ones.  As it stands right now, if any mod behind the paywall uses/requires mods/resources from outside it, whether it be Nio overide, JContainers, Realistic Ragdoll or Fuz-Ro-D-oh or whatever, then by rights Zenimax must pay-out royalties to those authors. This they obviously will not do, so they will have to make whatever they think they need to make to get more paywall content and ergo more money - be it  script extenders, FileAccess Interface or a silent voice utility for non-voiced paywall quest modders etc.

 

[DoctaSax]

It is likely that Bathesda will make it themselves and make them exclusively available only for mods behind the paywall - and starting with current games, not just future ones.  As it stands right now, if any mod behind the paywall uses/requires mods/resources from outside it, whether it be Nio overide, JContainers, Realistic Ragdoll or Fuz-Ro-D-oh or whatever, then by rights Zenimax must pay-out royalties to those authors. This they obviously will not do, so they will have to make whatever they think they need to make to get more paywall content and ergo more money - be it  script extenders, FileAccess Interface or a silent voice utility for non-voiced paywall quest modders etc.

Whether or not any of those resources can be used for commercial use, and whether or not a fee is required, is up to the creators of the resources. Even if some are required to get a commercial mod to work, then doesn't mean they have to pay out royalties by default, but only when the creator of the resources says so (and this isn't retroactive).

 

The idea that they'll invest time, energy (and thus money) in creating their own alternatives to avoid paying money sounds farfetched.

[Vader666]

 

... why spend months of your life learning the sort of esoterica it takes to balance mechanics or any of that sort of invisible under-the-hood stuff...  

 

For the same reasons as now, to know how stuff works and to be able to do stuff.

Creating content ist not only developing a mod, its a very personal achievment, its developing yourself.