Paid mods and Bethesda announcement on the E3

[StrawberryDevil]

Nothing good about Creation Club at all.   It's slimy and an intrusion.   It sets a sour precedent for the future.    I'm significantly less interested in the future of Bethesda.   The only thing that makes their games good are mods,  and now they want to shove mods into a business suit.    It's like a town thriving off of a well,  then Bethesda comes in and caps the well to start selling bottled water.    Sure you can still have water,  but now you have to use the stream.    If all the biggest mods went off to become microtransactions instead of mods,  what gets left.    It's a beautiful thing to be able to see a great mod and download it no questions asked,  no fees and shoveling out cash to feed the machine.

 

And it's kind of insulting to suggest that modders have ever done modding for or expect to get paid for it.  Those who might are misguided.  It's a hobby and for some, a passion.   Some people do deserve some credit for their work and your appreciation and respect sometimes, but that respect comes largely BECAUSE of its freedom and that they've done whatever amazing thing they've done without expectation of gain. If you wanted to support mod authors you already have the means to do so through donations.  If you say mod authors deserve it,  then go donate to them.  Don't support this bs that kills the spirit of it all and alienates what makes modding great.    If Creation Club existed from the start,  would modding even be a thing?   I doubt it'd be even half as big as it is now. 

 

 

Creation Club stifles hope for the future,   it's another corporate milking machine worming its way like a disease into the gaming industry along side Preorders, Microtransactions (Which this a gross offspring of) in full priced games, Season Passes,  and randomized loot boxes.   Anti-consumer capitalism at its best, gotta burn some villages to make a buck.

 

 

I respect a lot of mod makers, greatly,  but paid "mods" are a stain.   I'd love to see mod authors be successful, but in other ways,  or through other means.

[Vader666]

 

... am I right or am I right?...

 

 

To say it in "your" language :

"wenn man keine Ahnung hat, einfach mal klappe halten"

[Tripleekz]

Something I do not get, why are so many so dead set against paid mods when they themselves do not have to buy the mods that will be offered within creation club. it has nothing to do with what is currently on the nexus or loverslab nor anything that will ever be on the nexus or loverslab. I see so much hope that it will fail yet everyone here has bought their games and most likely will continue to do so. it's not like they are cutting out modding, they are just giving the modders that want to participate in Creation Club an avenue to do so. they will never take away from LL or Nexus if they were they'd have filed suit long ago to have it stopped. So what if they want to make a few bucks extra, it's their bloody games. If there are modders that want in on it let them it is no skin off anyones ass if they do and it means absolutely nothing to LL or Nexus or their futures. I really don't think Bethesda wants to shoot themselves in the foot by ending the modding scene and this Creation Club is not mandatory for anyone.

[DoctaSax]

 

And it's kind of insulting to suggest that modders have ever done modding for or expect to get paid for it.  Those who might are misguided. 

 

Calling some modders misguided for having their own opinions about why they wanna do it is not insulting to modders at all.

 

[Alva]

 

 

I dunno, it seems to me like a lot of people have just assumed the worst-case scenario for the Creation Club and then just ran with it.

-snip-

 

Well, usually when companies introduce things like this it is simply to get users to pay more ...... I mean what is the chance a gaming company does something for the good of the community over profit.

 

People basically said the same regarding DLCs when they started making their appearance and now you cannot throw a rock without hitting a DLC.

 

While I do agree with what you are saying, it seems to me that most of the modding community would have you believe that Bethesda wants to do away with how we have been doing modding for good! I don't believe that at all, in fact it seems to me that they made it quite clear that it isn't their intention to do away with free modding at all.

 

Honestly, it is just annoying to see people jump on the hate bandwagon without so much as just waiting to see how it works, especially when they spin information provided either way out of context, or ignore the writing on the wall. From what I gather, not many mod authors will be able to even have their mod placed in the club, as it is going to require a different type of work ethic that many won't be used to.

 

I just hate the fact that we as a community seem so hellbent on seeing new ideas fail, only because it doesn't conform to the way that we think stuff should work, even when the new idea isn't going to have such a huge impact on our way of doing things.......sorry for the rant!

 

 

If you wait and see - it'll be implemented and integrated deeply into the games - and then voicing concerns will be too late.

It's not a matter of "seeing new ideas fail" - it's a matter of  "we've seen these ploys before" - just repackaged in another name.

Sorry - but I've seen way too much from these companies to think they're in any way altruistic.

 

Do I think it'll eliminate "free modding"? Properly not to begin with - but I do think it'll make life much more difficult for those modders and much more expensive for users; because we now have both DLCs and additional modded content. 

Enough modders will jump ship - it might not be the top end modders or your favorite modders (to begin with)- but we saw the rift begin with the last attempt at paid modding; and Bethesda will keep trying to poke a stake into that rift to expand it, because it's in their financial interest .... at least short term, but short term is the money that's easily calculateable.

And a little hinting of better tools and some support for your ideas and content, and I'm sure many modders would be tempted.

 

Enough accepted DLCs to the degree where companies now can get away with day zero DLCs. But they got shut down the first times on paid modding - so now they just try again by rebranding it. The red tread is clear and the line will just be blurred and then we have it and have to live with it.

 

Thankfully I don't play so many (new) games any more so my wallet vote is easy to use.

[ralfetas]

 

If you wait and see - it'll be implemented and integrated deeply into the games - and then voicing concerns will be too late.

It's not a matter of "seeing new ideas fail" - it's a matter of  "we've seen these ploys before" - just repackaged in another name.

Sorry - but I've seen way too much from these companies to think they're in any way altruistic.

 

Do I think it'll eliminate "free modding"? Properly not to begin with - but I do think it'll make life much more difficult for those modders and much more expensive for users; because we now have both DLCs and additional modded content. 

Enough modders will jump ship - it might not be the top end modders or your favorite modders (to begin with)- but we saw the rift begin with the last attempt at paid modding; and Bethesda will keep trying to poke a stake into that rift to expand it, because it's in their financial interest .... at least short term, but short term is the money that's easily calculateable.

And a little hinting of better tools and some support for your ideas and content, and I'm sure many modders would be tempted.

 

Enough accepted DLCs to the degree where companies now can get away with day zero DLCs. But they got shut down the first times on paid modding - so now they just try again by rebranding it. The red tread is clear and the line will just be blurred and then we have it and have to live with it.

 

Thankfully I don't play so many (new) games any more so my wallet vote is easy to use.

 

 

Indeed, that is the point, the problem is not the content or the people who will support this, but what this will become, because we know something more is coming, i can just imagine, terrible creation kits for outsiders, DRM in mods and so on...

 

Is like the history of water bottle, companys that make soda see that the market was getting filled so they create a new market.

 

I see many articles talking about how the gaming industry is suffering, and i think is because actions like that, is not about the money, if the game cost 200 dollars and was good for the price i would pay, but they charge 60 dollars for something that should cost even less and them start to drain more and more with stupid stuff... They should learn how to make business, the same way the music industry learn, hollywood learn, even cars industry learn.

[D_ManXX2]

Something I do not get, why are so many so dead set against paid mods when they themselves do not have to buy the mods that will be offered within creation club. it has nothing to do with what is currently on the nexus or loverslab nor anything that will ever be on the nexus or loverslab. I see so much hope that it will fail yet everyone here has bought their games and most likely will continue to do so. it's not like they are cutting out modding, they are just giving the modders that want to participate in Creation Club an avenue to do so. they will never take away from LL or Nexus if they were they'd have filed suit long ago to have it stopped. So what if they want to make a few bucks extra, it's their bloody games. If there are modders that want in on it let them it is no skin off anyones ass if they do and it means absolutely nothing to LL or Nexus or their futures. I really don't think Bethesda wants to shoot themselves in the foot by ending the modding scene and this Creation Club is not mandatory for anyone.

 

I think most users against it due to the fact that it will look like less free mods and only quality mods needs to forked out cash. if it was the other way around i dont see anyone having trouble with it. lets say bad mods and pay content rather then free crappy stuff being released.

 

If only good mods are released on creation club and only poorly made bad quality on nexus for free then it does sound like the end of modding is incomming.

 

Bethesda already has enough money from me. no reason to fork out more for mods. This game is already expensive enough.

[Guest]

There is still a possibility that good mods will be outside and average mods will be inside.

Now, an "almost-DLC" like Enderal, or Bruma, or Skyrim Romance, I am OK if you have to pay a dollar or two.

 

But tons of mods out there are not worth a single penny.

 

[RitualClarity]

You do NOT need credits to download MODS. 

 

You do need credits to buy whatever from their new microtransaction's shop. 

 

What they are doing is leaving the mods the way they are now and intending to sell curated and tested content. 

 

The way I see it it is the best of both worlds.

 

 

This is not targeted at heavy mod users. This is for users who are afraid to try and install mods because "it can break my game". 

 

 

As I quoted in OP:

 

All the content is approved, curated, and taken through the full internal dev cycle; including localization, polishing, and testing. This also guarantees that all content works together.

 

I have a problem with the above.

I don't believe they will do that, at least not to the level that is needed to make sure the quality is there. Hell they don't do it for the game the release and have to upload a ton of patches after release and it is content that THEY created. I doubt they will do more than a brief look over if that.

 

Hey,, here is an idea (said someone at Bethesda Softworks) We can call it curated content if we run Alpha and Beta "testing" for the users and if there is a problem with the mod reported we dump it back on the author to fix.. If they don't we remove it... It should take only a few seconds per mod to "curate"  Lets bend the definition of "Curate" until we almost break it...   

 

^that is what I imagine happened when they came up with this. They have no intention of properly manning up the operation to manage the shear number of mods that they expect they will be getting.

 

I agree with you that on paper at least... it looks pretty good and decent. Not in its entirety but the core components. However, giving their history in the gaming industry in recent years... I have more confidence that they will fuck this up just like they did the other attempts they tried.

 

[RitualClarity]

There is still a possibility that good mods will be outside and average mods will be inside.

Now, an "almost-DLC" like Enderal, or Bruma, or Skyrim Romance, I am OK if you have to pay a dollar or two.

 

But tons of mods out there are not worth a single penny.

 

There is a possibility... yes... However, with the history they have had.. I believe I hve a better chance of winning the lottery without buying a ticket than they have of getting this right....

 

However, If they do it right and dot their i's and cross their T's. then yes... there is a very real possibility that some good high level mods might show up there. Mods that are worth a a couple of bucks to enhance the game. There have been several mods that have been made for Oldrim that many would agree would be worth a couple of bucks to get as they are "DLC quality"...  I an not talking about horse armor DLC quality... I am talking about Helgan Reborn, Wyrmstooth, Immersive Armors, Civil war Overhaul, Falskaar, Monpath to Elsweyr, Beyound Reach, Underneath, The forgotten City, etc, etc.

 

The question that needs to be asked regarding this question... is those opposed to this.. opposed to it based on Bethesda's history of fucking things up and screwing things over, or opposed to it as they believe all add on content should be free. I am of the former mindset. I don't have faith that they will do this right, or  anywhere near right.

 

[Outlast1]

well food for thought we could set up a poll on this site to see the current mood dealing with CC. Simple poll 4 answers to select dealing with: 1.) I am opposed, due to blah blah etc. 2.) im Opposed but only because it might be all crap and pirated. 3.) I am not sure as it seems decent but im skeptical. 4.) I love this idea seems wonderful hooray. 5.) im into circle jerking and I selected this answer cause I have nothing important to add and just feel like being a trolololo (excluding answer 5, this might be a good way to incognito no names just a plain poll to see the current mood). This seems like an idea that could give a hint or something into the feelings of at least this community.

[Guest]

I can't see any positives really, not from the perspective of a hobbyist. But from an author's perspective? When I think of how much fun I've had over the years thanks to them, well I want to feel optimistic for them. So let's imagine for a moment they get treated like decently paid freelance contractors rather than sweat shop workers grinding out content for a few shekels and a pat on the head - happy days.

 

So it's a tricky one. I don't begrudge  mod authors a chance at professional standing doing what they enjoy, but my intuition is that the writing is on the wall for TES modding as we know it, and that makes me sad.

 

Bruma's due out - big old fucker of a project. I doubt anbody involved did any of that expecting a tangible return on their time investment. I expect though, that all projects of that size will be led with that primarily in mind in the future. Maybe we'll see lots more like it in future, on shorter development cycles, more external resources, Bethesda staff breathing down their necks, bitching about deadlines. Might just as well work for them full time, because that's DLC, not a mod. 

 

If I'm honest this is giving me reason to question what the fuck I'm doing, fart arsing about with modding a 5 year old game so it vaguely resembles and plays like a not quite so bad  3 year old one.The whole monetizing thing is leaving me very, very cold. 

[ralfetas]

 

There is still a possibility that good mods will be outside and average mods will be inside.

Now, an "almost-DLC" like Enderal, or Bruma, or Skyrim Romance, I am OK if you have to pay a dollar or two.

 

But tons of mods out there are not worth a single penny.

 

There is a possibility... yes... However, with the history they have had.. I believe I hve a better chance of winning the lottery without buying a ticket than they have of getting this right....

 

However, If they do it right and dot their i's and cross their T's. then yes... there is a very real possibility that some good high level mods might show up there. Mods that are worth a a couple of bucks to enhance the game. There have been several mods that have been made for Oldrim that many would agree would be worth a couple of bucks to get as they are "DLC quality"...  I an not talking about horse armor DLC quality... I am talking about Helgan Reborn, Wyrmstooth, Immersive Armors, Civil war Overhaul, Falskaar, Monpath to Elsweyr, Beyound Reach, Underneath, The forgotten City, etc, etc.

 

The question that needs to be asked regarding this question... is those opposed to this.. opposed to it based on Bethesda's history of fucking things up and screwing things over, or opposed to it as they believe all add on content should be free. I am of the former mindset. I don't have faith that they will do this right, or  anywhere near right.

 

 

 

I am in the same line you are, the idea could be great if they leave modding community alone and do nice premium stuff that we should pay for, but knowing bethesda/zenimax, we know this won't happen.

 

i see a lot of possibilities, and that is the problem, this will not be something that will arrive and be there quiet, we are talking about a company that re-release the same game 5 times in 7 years, i don't believe a new weapon will cost 10 cents, and for 20 dollars we have far harbor, a huge DLC, if they get money selling weapons and armors, why they would make DLC's?

 

For the modding community, could be fuel to everyone make even better mods, to show people that this premium mod is BS, but this won't happen, people already do amazing stuff and give their best with the time and skills they have.

 

And the worse is, zenimax will see how everyone will handle with this, if they don't get money they could mess with the free mods, if they get money they can mess with free mods because they want more, who knows, in the future could even be different tools for free mods and premium.

 

In any way, the problem is not creation club, is what comes next.

[junkacc]

The season pass thingy didn't make any sense and was a complete sham, but now we know why. Season passes for paid mods is what's coming next.

[RitualClarity]

 

 

There is still a possibility that good mods will be outside and average mods will be inside.

Now, an "almost-DLC" like Enderal, or Bruma, or Skyrim Romance, I am OK if you have to pay a dollar or two.

 

But tons of mods out there are not worth a single penny.

 

There is a possibility... yes... However, with the history they have had.. I believe I hve a better chance of winning the lottery without buying a ticket than they have of getting this right....

 

However, If they do it right and dot their i's and cross their T's. then yes... there is a very real possibility that some good high level mods might show up there. Mods that are worth a a couple of bucks to enhance the game. There have been several mods that have been made for Oldrim that many would agree would be worth a couple of bucks to get as they are "DLC quality"...  I an not talking about horse armor DLC quality... I am talking about Helgan Reborn, Wyrmstooth, Immersive Armors, Civil war Overhaul, Falskaar, Monpath to Elsweyr, Beyound Reach, Underneath, The forgotten City, etc, etc.

 

The question that needs to be asked regarding this question... is those opposed to this.. opposed to it based on Bethesda's history of fucking things up and screwing things over, or opposed to it as they believe all add on content should be free. I am of the former mindset. I don't have faith that they will do this right, or  anywhere near right.

 

 

 

I am in the same line you are, the idea could be great if they leave modding community alone and do nice premium stuff that we should pay for, but knowing bethesda/zenimax, we know this won't happen.

 

i see a lot of possibilities, and that is the problem, this will not be something that will arrive and be there quiet, we are talking about a company that re-release the same game 5 times in 7 years, i don't believe a new weapon will cost 10 cents, and for 20 dollars we have far harbor, a huge DLC, if they get money selling weapons and armors, why they would make DLC's?

 

For the modding community, could be fuel to everyone make even better mods, to show people that this premium mod is BS, but this won't happen, people already do amazing stuff and give their best with the time and skills they have.

 

And the worse is, zenimax will see how everyone will handle with this, if they don't get money they could mess with the free mods, if they get money they can mess with free mods because they want more, who knows, in the future could even be different tools for free mods and premium.

 

In any way, the problem is not creation club, is what comes next.

 

 

yes... if they get money for selling weapons and armors and such then why would they make DLCs. The work mostly is being done by the community. Directly from the community and not their people but they are getting a nice cut. It is a win for them so unless there was some content that they wanted to add but ran short on time (create a DLC instead like they seem to have done in the past) then they will likely be less and less apt to create a DLC. They won't have to do that for a money grab. they will have their money through the content created and they won't have to pay much to get it done.

 

The shame of it is, I can also see how this could be such a good thing as well if done right as well. I am not someone just bitching because I might have to pay a buck for Faliscar or something like it. I am bitching becuase I don't trust them to do this right. They have proven in the past that they don't understand the community.

 

edit:

Dam double post caused by glitched browser... Sorry to all those that had to go through that HUGE double posted entry. 

[Darkpig]

So to make sure we are all on the same page here. Bethesda is making new DLC but is calling it paid mods right? I must repeat myself and say that businesses will milk the hell out of everything until they stop receiving money. I thought Bethesda was done with Skyrim but nope, we got Special Edition. Oh Bethesda... Now we got this business. I think Bethesda might be getting lazy probably. I am worried that that the new "DLC" as I shall call it will become Master files for new and possibly existing mods. For example: Dawnguard is not a topnotch DLC but it is fun and it has crossbows, MOTHERF***ING crossbows! Crossbows are an awesome addition to the game and there are many awesome gun mods that sprang from it but it is still a bow using Skyrim's engine. It was never supposed to be in the game in the first place and thus has issues like automatic reloading except when you switch out your crossbow with a dagger and back. Skyrim is a buggy game with largely unbalanced gameplay. There is going to be quality control with Bethesda so no doubt they are going to pick a cool mod but with 20% more bugs. Bethesda can do better and we know they can do better. All efforts and funding should be placed towards a new game but that is wishful thinking on my part.

 

What do you guys think should be the company's next goal?

[leyre]

Bethesda announced that Creation Club mods will be made so they dont have compatibility problems with the game

Releases Skyrim for switch

Cant fucking make it more obvious

[Lodakai]

<snip>

 

What do you guys think should be the company's next goal?

 

Morrowind special edition.

 

::innocent whistle::

[KoolHndLuke]

 I will just mention that I started modding basically so I could see beautiful nude women in my games- and lots of sex. Free adult content for these games will continue to be made regardless of what happens for a couple of reasons. First there is a demand for it. Call me whatever but I would dump every other mod in my lists in favor of quality nudity ( its a perv/fetish thing I guess). And if someone hadn't already made it then I would figure out how to make it. Second Beth will never include sex or nudity in their games, leaving that niche to be filled by people like the very talented creators here on LL. Just think about how many mods rely on Sexlab or similar. No- free modding isn't going anywhere. It may change some, but it will never die because Beth wants nothing to do with that type of content.

[Tumai]

 

 

...

[snip]

if they get money selling weapons and armors, why they would make DLC's?

 

For the modding community, could be fuel to everyone make even better mods, to show people that this premium mod is BS, but this won't happen, people already do amazing stuff and give their best with the time and skills they have.

 

And the worse is, zenimax will see how everyone will handle with this, if they don't get money they could mess with the free mods, if they get money they can mess with free mods because they want more, who knows, in the future could even be different tools for free mods and premium.

 

In any way, the problem is not creation club, is what comes next.

 

 

The key can of worms is indeed if Zenimax makes some money but "not enough." (If they don't make money at all they will probably scrap it). Even for weapons and armor, it could be problematic.

 

1. Conflict of interest: the temptation will be high to purposely make future games with "meh" looking armor and weapons to sell more micro-T d/ls.

 

2. If key players stay outside the paywall (the people behind the bodies, skeleton, physics - not the armor makers).  e.g. If Caliente decides to stay out, it is perfectly within his right to deny the use of his mods in the creation of paid mods.  It would also be 100% certain that Zenimax will not allow paid armor mods to be converted to CBBE or UUNP-HDT with bodyslide and made free to d/l as a standalone. So we will have a bunch of armors for vanilla bodies behind a paywall and a bunch or armors outside.   Now if time goes by and they see that their armor mods for PC are getting middling d/ls while, say, "the fabulous world of bikini armor for bodyslide" is getting 10x as many d/ls, they will gradually come to regard free modders, not as supportive but rather as "competition."  It's inevitable. New EULA's and other tactics to tip the balance to paid mods will follow.

 

 

[prinyo]

 

I don't believe they will do that,  ... that is what I imagine happened when they came up with this. .. I agree with you that on paper at least... it looks pretty good and decent. .... However, giving their history in the gaming industry in recent years... I have more confidence that they will fuck this up just like they did the other attempts they tried.

 

 

Here. Made your post factually correct by removing the speculations. Read it again. 

 

This whole discussion is based on willingly ignoring anything that Bethesda says and replacing it with speculations and predictions. 

 

The only thing this discussion shows, been as long and heated as it is, is that the distrust and dislike for Bethesda is growing exponentially. 

 

I'm probably more angry with Bethesda than most people here and spent quite some time in the past week bashing them elsewhere online.

 

What the gaming community at large hasn't noticed yet is that Bethesda is committing two of the biggest "anti-consumer sins". For the first time in their history they are releasing a new game title as a console exclusive and they are cutting content on another game release in order to sell it as low-effort cashgrab DLCs. And they are doing all this in an ugly hypocritical way.

 

But still, I prefer to judge them by what they actually do and not by what I think they are. The CC hasn't started yet. All we have is a video trailer and a page with promo info. And a total distrust in Bethesda to the point where everything they say is automatically considered a lie.  

[winny257]

There is still a possibility that good mods will be outside and average mods will be inside.

Now, an "almost-DLC" like Enderal, or Bruma, or Skyrim Romance, I am OK if you have to pay a dollar or two.

 

But tons of mods out there are not worth a single penny.

 

In particular the many many thousands of followers mods, almost every day they appear on Nexus as if there was nothing else.     

But I can remember a lot of good mods, which were developed without tools by Bethesda (CK)!

These modders have shown that it goes without Bethesda! 

[RitualClarity]

 

 

I don't believe they will do that,  ... that is what I imagine happened when they came up with this. .. I agree with you that on paper at least... it looks pretty good and decent. .... However, giving their history in the gaming industry in recent years... I have more confidence that they will fuck this up just like they did the other attempts they tried.

 

 

Here. Made your post factually correct by removing the speculations. Read it again. 

 

This whole discussion is based on willingly ignoring anything that Bethesda says and replacing it with speculations and predictions. 

 

The only thing this discussion shows, been as long and heated as it is, is that the distrust and dislike for Bethesda is growing exponentially. 

 

I'm probably more angry with Bethesda than most people here and spent quite some time in the past week bashing them elsewhere online.

 

What the gaming community at large hasn't noticed yet is that Bethesda is committing two of the biggest "anti-consumer sins". For the first time in their history they are releasing a new game title as a console exclusive and they are cutting content on another game release in order to sell it as low-effort cashgrab DLCs. And they are doing all this in an ugly hypocritical way.

 

But still, I prefer to judge them by what they actually do and not by what I think they are. The CC hasn't started yet. All we have is a video trailer and a page with promo info. And a total distrust in Bethesda to the point where everything they say is automatically considered a lie.  

 

 

It wasn't a speculation was a parody of what the company is viewed as not as factual or even close to the truth. I believe most that read that understood that aspect of what was posted there.

 

to be clear I am hopeful but distrustful that they will do or deliver on the better options of what they propose. This isn't based on some random hatred it is based on their previous decade long acts toward their customer base, and yes, I am waiting to see if they do actually do something good with this. However, I seriously doubt they will... This could be a very good thing if done correctly, a disastrous thing if not. Can we agree on that point at least.

 

Lets set up an example... if you have someone that abuses you, hits you or calls you names and generally treats you very badly... and then they say they are going to do something great that you will love... do you trust them? Do you get excited? Do you wait in anticipation? Especially when in the past when they stated they would do something great, they ended up shitting on you? I know I wouldn't. I would hope and wish for the best but expect the absolute worse. This is the case here as I see it. .The hatred and distrust hasn't been created in a vacuum it is based on personal experiences of all those posting. Pure and simple

 

Hopefully, they are really watching the forums and sites and take our concerns into consideration and staff up the Creator's Club properly, handle the processes properly and make all this worry on the events coming up a waste of time.

 

[Alva]

 

<snip>

 

But still, I prefer to judge them by what they actually do and not by what I think they are. The CC hasn't started yet. All we have is a video trailer and a page with promo info. And a total distrust in Bethesda to the point where everything they say is automatically considered a lie.  

 

 

Well, past experiences say more than a press release.

Sure they might surprise everybody and delivery something awesome for the community, but due to past experiences - I for one will not hold my breath in anticipation.

[Guest]

I've just seen those FO4 screenshots of re-skins being sold in game for credits - cash shop fluff.

 

https://blogs-images.forbes.com/davidthier/files/2017/06/Capture-11-1200x671.jpg?width=960

 

I couldn't help but shudder.  Patently Bethesda see console gamers as a captive audience ripe for micro-transacted plunder. I kind of admire the sheer barefaced audacity of it really -  using the community to plunder the community, but presenting it as a creative partnership, the spirit of collaboration etc. Classic Orwellian doublespeak. That sort of obfuscation is straight out of Valve's playbook.

 

This is my fear for the future I think. Creators large and small are now an acquirable asset. Bethesda have a new revenue stream, inevitably they will want to protect and nurture it for the future, and everything they do from now on will be with that part of their business in mind. How can it not be? 

 

In that sort of environment, why spend months of your life learning the sort of esoterica it takes to balance mechanics or any of that sort of invisible under-the-hood stuff    when you can knock out re-skins for hard cash, and with the official publisher giving you a store front and access to a vast, captive consumer base?

 

I'm not saying every mod author is going to turn to the dark side, many will doubtless still be motivated to just do it because it needs doing. But  when money's involved things always change, often rapidly. Our scene never had to worry about that before, but now it very much does in my view. We will be affected despite this not appearing to be directly targeted at us, I just don't have a clue to what extent or how quickly

 

 I had a brief chat with Enai Siaion about this, what he said sums this whole thing up about as well as anybody has managed thus far:

 

Bethesda has taken the reins of the mod scene. It is no longer about sharing cool stuff (or even about endorsements) but about the potential to get paid for making mods with unlimited resources that can be published on the biggest platform (PS4). Any consequences of this change, both good and bad, will be on Bethesda. I'm perfectly fine with sinking tons of time into Ordinator when the goal is to make an awesome gameplay overhaul, but the goal has been changed and it no longer makes sense to do so in the current environment. That's all.