Wartimes - a daughter's tale LE (Alternate start scenario)

[safado]

1 hour ago, Monoman1 said:

Perhaps we can spin some magic gobbledygook - Father places a curse on the PC linking her life with her mother's life. Mother dead = PC dead. 

Change nursing soup to a magic, life extending potion.

But I don't know how I'd... inject that into the current plot. 

 

Suggestion:

What about making the issue about mother be about taxes to the Jarl instead.

Mother is collateral for Father's unpaid taxes, and PC will be too if payment to principal is not done weekly.  That way there is no killing and the misogynist theme is maintained. 

If taxes continue to be unpaid, mother could be sold to someone with a bad reputation, like becoming a Magic experiment subject, and PC get heavily fined in Whiterun.  The dialogue need to be change to create the urgency.

 

 

 

Edited May 11, 2022 by safado

[jc321]

7 hours ago, Monoman1 said:

Also. Any ideas for making Mother more valuable somehow? Keeping her alive needs to be your greatest priority. 

Everytime I walk into the house she's certainly never in her cage. She's off doing some other duty with Father or Aldo. So maybe ditch the cage and she offset some of the chores that your PC will eventually end up doing. Not nice things like cooking etc.. but entertaining Aldo, clearing up floor stains. milking (could you fit a milking machine inside the house?) - And your PC would either accelerate to undertaking those chores faster if she dies? - 

 

If the thought is big punishment if she dies  .. then I like Kinkeag's idea above. That would be better than the simple Father kicks you out of the house and puts a fine on you ..  I still think that's an easy way out!. 

 

As it currently stands .. I do tend to finish off Mother quickly!, PITA to keep maintaining her so do see the need for an incentive to keep her alive.

 

[Monoman1]

 On the side: Father will now lock you inside and rape/beat/drug/device you repeatedly until you start offering your body freely. Not just in effect at the beginning but at any point that you fail to offer yourself. 

 

25 minutes ago, safado said:

 

Suggestion:

What about making the issue about mother be about taxes to the Jarl instead.

Mother is collateral for Father's unpaid taxes, and PC will be too if payment to principal is not done weekly.  That way there is no killing and the misogynist theme is maintained. 

If taxes continue to be unpaid, mother could be sold to someone with a bad reputation, like becoming a Magic experiment subject, and PC get heavily fined in Whiterun.  The dialogue need to be change to create the urgency.

Mmm. Would require a substantial rewrite which I'm not keen on. Was kind of looking for a solution that's low effort/high impact simply because I still have a million things to do already. 

 

1 hour ago, kinkeag said:

What about if mother dies, you are locked in either the house or cellar permanently except when father demands you drain Brutus (magic bomb collar if you walk 20m away from the house), fuck clients and what not. Hard bondage, increased rape, double debt, wartimes just ups the difficulty.

I suppose that's an option. Would need to make it clear at the beginning of the mod that mother dying effectively = game over/life as a slave forever. 

 

It doesn't, however, make a lot of sense that mother is the barrier to that end since she's pretty powerless herself. But I suppose Father could expect more return on his investment if the player were to be allowed to roam more. But again if the player expects mother to die and leaves the house before that happens then she's effectively free. Unless Father was to track her down and drag her back somehow :S

 

And now my head's starting to hurt...

Edited May 11, 2022 by Monoman1

[kinkeag]

10 minutes ago, Monoman1 said:

On the side: Father will now lock you inside and rape/beat/drug/device you repeatedly until you start offering your body freely. Not just in effect at the beginning but at any point that you fail to offer yourself. 

Great, big fan of that.

 

11 minutes ago, Monoman1 said:

It doesn't, however, make a lot of sense that mother is the barrier to that end since she's pretty powerless herself. But I suppose Father could expect more return on his investment if the player were to be allowed to roam more. But again if the player expects mother to die and leaves the house before that happens then she's effectively free. Unless Father was to track her down and drag her back somehow. 

I quite like this actually, maybe just before mother is about to die, there's an inner monologue duologue box which lets the player know, it might be too late to save mother, and if she wants out, now's the time to try and escape.

 

Giving the player 3 Options:

-She escapes and is bound and dragged back anyway (maybe by hired thugs, i can't see father doing the leg work) (game over slave state)

-Or stay until you earn enough to buy her back. (Continuing the slavewife storyline)

-Or stay, mother dies, and you become permanent slave (game over slave state)

 

It gives a fairly good incentive to stay and "earn your keep" to save mother

[trellouk]

I like the idea of optional permanent debuffs. The PC is devastated by her mother's passing and blames herself for it. As a result she loses all her determination and it impacts all her skills and experience gain negatively. In addition, due to her depressed state, the PC is less productive at her jobs and receives less gold for her various repetitive tasks around Whiterun.

[leakim]

10 hours ago, Monoman1 said:

You could add your own toggle by adding an impossible condition to the starting topic "So, daughter, we need to discuss your new position in this family. Surely you recognise that things have changed."

 

GetDead Player == 1 is what I usually use. 

 

Hehe. Sounds nice that it is supposedly so easy.

 

But where would I add such a condition?

• xEdit/zEdit? Tried looking at "Dialog Topic", "Dialog Branch" and "Dialog View" in those. Could not really find it.
• Script edits? Could not find any part of that dialog in those files.
• Creation Kit? Not really sure how to use that tool. Only know how to re-compile scripts. ^_^
• Somewhere else? Would like a pointer for this, because I would really like to disable that part of the mod. 
• Would adding such a condition disable other sex progression that comes after it? Or is this topic detached from sex progression in that you just need to have progressed up to a certain point before it becomes available as a "random force greet".

Edited May 11, 2022 by leakim

[Thelargir]

One thing that could work to really drive home the point that you need to care for your mother, was if she actually remained in the house. Maybe instead of having her "shipped off", she would remain in the house, but always sleeping as if in some kind of coma? I think it would be a good reminder of your duties if she was actually there. Then, you could walk in on your father having sex with her unconscious body, and he says something like "well, she's still my wife, and I have urges. But maybe you'd like to fulfill them instead?" 

 

Something else that could work, was if you received false letters from your mom, which are actually forgeries made by father. In the letters she thanks you for the help, and praises you for being a good girl, while imploring you to listen to your father and do as he tells you.

Also, I think it would be really cool if he forced you to sleep in the same bed as him, or on the floor next to his bed. Maybe turn the PC's room into serving some other kind of function. Perhaps renting out the pc's room to travelers or something? 

Edited May 11, 2022 by Thelargir

[ck2modfan]

rather than killing the PC or locking indefinitely in the house, perhaps:

- father throws PC out of house and takes ALL the PC stuff/gold

- large bounty added, like leaving in the beginning

- word is spread to shun the PC, giving permanent trade nerf

[kapibar]

7 hours ago, Monoman1 said:

Or perhaps the PC simply kills herself. Game over. But that's VERY dark and I don't like it. 

Honestly - it sounds much better than using yet another debuff. This mechanic as a whole is overused to a point of being cliche. And I respect Wartimes mostly for the fact that it dared being different. It used Skyrim's lore as a foundation of story instead of being yet another enslavement mod with a prosthesis for a plot. Honestly, man, what you did to this mod is far too innovative to use tired solutions. So I'll try to be creative.

You have one more card to play that's built into the mod - the uncle. I think he might be your proper motivator. How about this: when mother gets sent away, uncle comes with a visit because he heard something has happened to his little sister. And of course this is all PC's fault. She was fine before she gave birth to this little bitch, now this parasite has sucked out all the strength from her poor mother. And if anything happens to his dear little sister, the uncle WILL kill the PC. He's old, grizzled, but experienced ex-adventurer. Let's say Ebony Warrior-level experienced. If he comes after the the PC - she can put up a fight, but without some ridiculous power-up he will murder her. And if the player uses some kind of death alternative mod - no problem. He will beat the PC to shit and walk away, just to return few days after, to make her life insufferable.

I think this would be much more intresting than yet another debuff. The player can try to run away, hide, but he'll always come back. And if you're extra mean, you can make him an unkillable juggernaut, coming back even after suffering a defeat.

[GeorgiaCav]

On the one hand, it's never been an issue to me, and it's just an RP thing, to play my WT PC's as wanting desperately to save their mothers. 

 

But if you want to force the PC to give a crap about mother's death, how about having Father frame the PC for mother's murder if she dies? After all, the PC GIVES HER THE HERBS that knock her out and make her sick. As far as anyone outside Father and Belethor are concerned, the mother's death could easily have been the PC's fault.

 

So then Caius or the Jarl or someone shows up and arrests the PC. After a couple of years in the dungeons, the PC is released with some spell or unremoveable item that permanently severs her from magicka, or weakens her in other ways.

 

Father could warn the PC about this outcome -- "If you don't do as I say, I'll make sure everyone knows you murdered your mother. Do you have any idea what happens to matricides in this blasted land? Trust me, you don't want to find out."

 

Depending on how deep you want to go, there could even be a quest to get Belethor to confess the truth to the authorities, as a way of getting your magicka back. Something time consuming and deeply humiliating. And the scars could be permanent even so.

 

Just brainstorming. Of course there's the problem of where she actually is, but you could expand the circle of conspirators to include anyone else that would know.

Edited May 11, 2022 by GeorgiaCav

[lorddenorstrus]

Why is it even a bad thing @Monoman1  I always figured the entire goal through the og design was to brainwash PC to the point they don't care and let her die intentionally.  ie slavewife ending.  

 

Personally, considering you've already cleaned things up, reduced original dependencies and want to open the mod up in as many ways.  Amputated Framework is barely used, its for a single event and eats at slots.  Why not remove the amputation aspect entirely?  It feels odd as is really.  And instead just have the "Mother" get turned into a collared slave of father on return that assists on PCs chores.  As you've upped the ante so to speak, so that as is it's incredibly difficult to maintain the gold unless players min/max time adventuring because the og system for gold just is an out dated time waste at this point.   (really though the og events need to have increased gold or be deleted, they're a trap to people who haven't been testing this entire time to see the mod progress as you've developed it way past it's original point) Giving the player a free 'chore reduction' mechanic and a key in that getting slaves of their own to continue helping father will allow more time to gather gold.   

 

And you could have it so Mother was "away getting slave trained" the entire time.  So her eventual return she's an obedient toy for Father.  As DD is.. being added more from what I've read from you?  I don't think it's a huge stretch.  It also lets the ending scenarios become more fleshed out, as he plans to do the same to pc.   Collar and permanently enslave after slowly brain washing them into being a Babymaker.

 

The only thing I've debated otherwise, is the time inbetween events that the PC is adventuring so to speak (after all this is still Skyrim and not just it's own game lol; and you personally have mentioned in tests you adventure for $) why the father seems to accepted or ok?  With the PC running off to do that stuff.  As mentioned the tasks seem out dated, new task X be a psuedo steal of Skyrims go to X do Y system from Stewards?  Father steals wanted posters, lies about the reward and gets PC to do the work for the gold?   Why PC doesn't escape could be resolved with a Collar that forces the player to return after X amount of time.  (ingame teleport, explain it as collar mentally forcing the pc to go back)

[Kryona]

Is the Alchemy Table supposed to disappear? I've lost it twice now but i can't figure out if its a bug or if its intended punishment because i messed something up. 

[lorddenorstrus]

21 minutes ago, Kryona said:

Is the Alchemy Table supposed to disappear? I've lost it twice now but i can't figure out if its a bug or if its intended punishment because i messed something up. 

When the Bed changes it can reset the table, I don't think it's supposed to, so I just haven't bothered with it or wait for the 'final bed' before getting it.

[xkyljs]

18 hours ago, Monoman1 said:

Try rebuilding the SEQ file

1. Load WT in TesEdit

2. Wait for it to finish loading

3. Right click WT -> Other -> Create SEQ file

 

I did take some time and try your suggestions. But sadly it seems not to work for me. Was there something I did wrong? 

I chose OK here and it got onto the next page which was like this:

And i right clicked it and chose other and created SEQ file. In the end it shows this:

And i got into game and saw no change in my saves.

So i took some time and run a new save to see if things had changed. But sadly there was still new dialogue choice after the tension talk.

I haven't really checked the supply run task tho, since i failed twice for the sake of time. Maybe it has been fixed.

[kapibar]

5 hours ago, lorddenorstrus said:

Why not remove the amputation aspect entirely?  It feels odd as is really.

The thing that pisses me off the most about the whole amputation thing is mother's behaviour when Spank That Ass event fires up. She casually leaves her cage to slap your ass when cooking. It's an immediate immersion breaker. And this whole explanation about magic and that her limbs might be reattached is taking inspiration from Slaverun. But on the other hand SLS does use Amputator, so it's not a waste of a slot only for WT's sake.

As for your suggestion about tasks - indeed they add nothing after a certain point, but the mod would be boring and empty as fuck without them. I don't go adventuring as it would be kinda off-character, so if there are no tasks, going through WT would require a lot of time skipping. If the mod goes the whore route, father should also force PC to become crafting slave - making potions and jewelry for sale. This would keep non-adventuring players at home and also reduce the boredom.

[Monoman1]

  

13 hours ago, leakim said:

But where would I add such a condition?

TesEdit probably the handiest. FormID 072568B5. Add the condition there. Needs to be done on a save where that dialogue has not yet happened. Don't think it will limit progress.

6 hours ago, Kryona said:

Is the Alchemy Table supposed to disappear? I've lost it twice now but i can't figure out if its a bug or if its intended punishment because i messed something up. 

Table is commandeered when your favour dips into negative territory. Just like your bed. 

4 hours ago, xkyljs said:

But sadly there was still new dialogue choice after the tension talk.

Sorry but I've no clue what causes this. 

WT should be lower than alternate start in your load order. Loot won't do this. 

pchsFatherSex should be 0 for tense dialogue IIRC. Do 'help pchsFatherSex' in the console to see what it's at. 

Edited May 12, 2022 by Monoman1

[kinkeag]

On 4/12/2022 at 9:08 PM, Monoman1 said:

There's no flowchart (you're giving me way too much credit. I usually just wing it)

Though the overall structure hasn't changed much. I've mostly just added stuff to the middle. 

 

I can't really take on another mod full time anyway. So the plan is to finish off and thats that. 

 

Like I've said before there's so many angles this mod could have that I could probably work on it forever but I have my own mods to work on. So the current plan is to:

 

1. Finish off the new meal system (currently having trouble with crafting recipes and all the various crafting overhauls *sighface*)

2. Extend it to the party. 

3. Polish the party a little - dialog doesn't change after pregnancy. Sex to require orgasms otherwise party satisfaction decreases. Maybe some dancing spectation. 

4. Rework party satisfaction (again) - base score on maximum possible points for the tasks given. 

5. Introduce the pc to whoring.

6. Add some customers coming to home looking for a good time.

7. Have father demand a whoring quota from <insert whoring mod here>

8. Maybe polish up the endings a little. 

9. Finish cellar rework

10. Finish a couple of other thing I have half done.

11. See if I can unlink all the direct references to father and 'uncentralize' him. This will be painful... but it should hopefully allow you to swap in/out father variations. Possibly even vanilla npcs... want nazeem to be your daddy? It might be possible... though I don't know about killing essential npcs...

 

There's probably more I've forgotten but that's a shit ton of work for 11 bullet points...

Can you give us an idea of what stuff you've completed or is close to being completed, and the stuff thats causing you strife rn? 

[audhol]

On 5/11/2022 at 10:35 AM, Monoman1 said:

Also. Any ideas for making Mother more valuable somehow? Keeping her alive needs to be your greatest priority. 

You know that mysterious potion in deviously enslaved continued that after you've drunk it you have to ask the follower to give them oral or you get a debuff to health and stamina. What if you applied something similar after the first time father makes you lick mothers pussy? Father could apply some kind of magic cream onto mother and then explain afterwards that daughter needs to taste the pussy at least once every couple of days or she will slowly die. You would have to beg father to let you lick mother, don't know if its possible to have the swallow popup with an anim tagged FF.

[Monoman1]

1 hour ago, kinkeag said:

Can you give us an idea of what stuff you've completed or is close to being completed, and the stuff thats causing you strife rn? 

No strife. Just talking out things to do with endings. Helps the creative process. 

 

Let's talk about the endings. They're... inconsistent IMO. Lets talk about the current outcomes (I'll probably forget something):

1. Work your ass off and become father's 'slave wife'. Mother dies. - Long and difficult. No positive outcome as such other than maintaining access to favour and it's benefits (and drawbacks). 

2. Same as above but you get enough gold to get mother back. She hates you now and throws you out. This is probably the 'best' ending? But is also long and difficult and not very rewarding. 

3. Just leave. Mother dies. Exp gain debuff for 1 month of gameplay. Pretty easy

4. Kill father. Mother dies. Exp gain debuff. Bounties in every hold. Moderate

5. Go to uncle benji. Get SD enslaved. Mother dies presumably. Never followed this ending very far. Easy enough once you lead SD Benji to his inevitable death. 

 

1/2 is obviously where the 'meat' of the mod is. It should be the preferred path but instead 2, 3 & 4 are all shorter and easier paths. I'm beginning to think that these endings aren't really a good thing for the mod. I mean if you want to get SD enslaved I'm sure there's an AS start mod for that. Choices/outcomes are usually a good thing but when they're as deep as a puddle then are they really a good thing..?

 

Why should I do 1 or 2 and not 3, 4 or 5 instead? 

Given the amount of time and effort 1 and 2 take the only deterrence from going down the route of 3, 4 and 5, IMO, would be effective game over conditions - death, enslaved forever, imprisoned forever or otherwise doomed in some fashion. They're the only reason I'd strive for 1 or 2. 

 

So what about 3, 4 & 5 changed to doomed outcomes. 

2 = possibly best outcome but extremely difficult if not impossible.

1 = second best outcome. Perhaps on completion favour points double for rewards to give you something. Or maybe you get your twin sister as a reward. 

 

Some good ideas there from people.

I particularly like the ideas of:

1. Mother having an avenging brother (though I don't think that can be Benji as he's just some guy living in a shack + it'd mess with the benji ending). But I have some issues with it (like why he never had an issue with your abusive father before now)

2. Being framed by father for mother's death. 

 

@lorddenorstrus

Yes I'd forgotten that angle. Perhaps if mother dies after becoming father's slave wife then he doesn't frame the pc for her death. Nor does the PC feel regret for her having died - brainwashed (no exp debuff). Slave wife can happen very quickly though depending on your pregnancy mod and starting cycle. So conditions would have to be extended possibly to depravity/submission maxed + other milestones reached. 

 

As for bringing mother back instead of caged, I think it'd simply take too much of a re-write at this stage...

Edited May 12, 2022 by Monoman1

[Monoman1]

20 minutes ago, audhol said:

You know that mysterious potion in deviously enslaved continued that after you've drunk it you have to ask the follower to give them oral or you get a debuff to health and stamina. What if you applied something similar after the first time father makes you lick mothers pussy? Father could apply some kind of magic cream onto mother and then explain afterwards that daughter needs to taste the pussy at least once every couple of days or she will slowly die. You would have to beg father to let you lick mother, don't know if its possible to have the swallow popup with an anim tagged FF.

As I was reminded I can't really tie the PCs fate to mother's because her dying is one of the natural outcomes. Or at least I can not tie your fate permanently with hers. Perhaps if a certain milestone is reach then father would remove said curse though.

[audhol]

5 minutes ago, Monoman1 said:

Perhaps if a certain milestone is reach then father would remove said curse though.

Or rub his magic cream on something else.

[jc321]

24 minutes ago, Monoman1 said:

I mean if you want to get SD enslaved I'm sure there's an AS start mod for that.

There's also a SD enslaved route already within WT (ie: be sarcastic with father at opening scenes) and that did have additional WT dialogue options with Father over and above the normal SD. I wondered if those additional dialogues could have been expanded.. But SD (given it's pitfulls) is quite a good closure scenario and could work for some of your endings. .. 

 

Closure outcome for me (if going down the failure route) would be being condemned to the cellar, forced to work/craft a 12 hour shift making things for father to sell/profit on and with the occasional random visits from Father/Aldo/AN other for sexual favours/gratification .. with no hope of escape. That could work for options 1 & 2??

 

My mindset though is not expecting any normal playthrough of Skyrim so being kicked out to be allowed to continue play with 1 month debuffs doesn't work for me because I always start new whenever a new mod comes out.  

 

If I was really going out on a limb here, it'd be maybe you take the same wonderful attitude to pchs's wolflclub mod and modified/updated that one (since you're familiar with his code) and updated and  that could be used to reflect an outcome from WT ... ok maybe not! (I can dream at least)

[kapibar]

1 hour ago, Monoman1 said:

5. Go to uncle benji. Get SD enslaved. Mother dies presumably.

Except she doesn't. This ending is seriously undercooked, the mother goes back to father as soon as the dialogue is completed.

The problem with other endings is that the mother is still easily accessible in Whiterun. Remove that, you remove ending no. 5. Also, no. 1 is not an ending, not really. You still have option - kill father, so no. 4 is "above" no. 1.

I think SD scenarios should be removed altogether. Someone reasonably stated that WT's mechanics surpassed SD, and that was stated before your developments. Maybe instead you could implement "stricter" rules? If you're acting rude in the beginning of the mod, you go directly to cellar for "reeducation" (no clothes, forced devices, locked doors until PC submits).

[Balgin]

3 hours ago, Monoman1 said:

Let's talk about the endings. They're... inconsistent IMO. Lets talk about the current outcomes (I'll probably forget something):

1. Work your ass off and become father's 'slave wife'. Mother dies. - Long and difficult. No positive outcome as such other than maintaining access to favour and it's benefits (and drawbacks). 

2. Same as above but you get enough gold to get mother back. She hates you now and throws you out. This is probably the 'best' ending? But is also long and difficult and not very rewarding. 

3. Just leave. Mother dies. Exp gain debuff for 1 month of gameplay. Pretty easy

4. Kill father. Mother dies. Exp gain debuff. Bounties in every hold. Moderate

5. Go to uncle benji. Get SD enslaved. Mother dies presumably. Never followed this ending very far. Easy enough once you lead SD Benji to his inevitable death. 

 

I'd like to suggest 6: Escape with Futa sister and become her Devious Follower/Submissive Lola victim just when you thought you'd escaped from one malicious controlling manipulative individual to realise you're now stuck with another who's also sort of trauma bonded (and could easily be a mod hand off).

 

Since you asked earlier - Sexlab Hormones still has a working futa curse with it's own penis model (although I believe the penis might be an optional download). Hormones is part of the SD family of mods by Deep Blue Frog so there might be some synergy as Wartimes is using SD already.

 

Another thought: Instead of having the xp debuff for the mother's death become permanent how about a smaller temporary xp debuff every time you fail to supply money for the mother's treatment? That way removing the debuff could be an incentive for the player to keep up with the payments.

Edited May 12, 2022 by Balgin

[Monoman1]

 

I'm going to need a bigger menu :S