Wartimes - a daughter's tale LE (Alternate start scenario)

[Monoman1]

1 hour ago, kapibar said:

There are different types of brothels. Bars certainly have a place in this kind of setup.

There are beginning to be a little too many sleeping arrangements to reconcile cleanly anyway. 

 

Sleep in your bed. 

Normal bed/slave bed?

Normal bedroom/Exposed bedroom/barred bedroom?

Get locked into bedroom?

Lock house at night?

Ask for permission to sleep. 

Sleep in the cellar with monsters.

Sleep at the foot of father's bed. 

 

Needs a clear direction/separation of all this before it becomes a confusing mess both for me and users. 

 

 

BTW, placed father's buy back chest in his room so that maybe you could sneak in a steal stuff back but lo & behold ? the chest does not lock either... great. Under the floor it goes. 

Edited April 29, 2022 by Monoman1

[Balgin]

9 minutes ago, Monoman1 said:

There are beginning to be a little too many sleeping arrangements to reconcile cleanly anyway. 

 

Sleep in your bed. 

Normal bed/slave bed?

Normal bedroom/Exposed bedroom/barred bedroom?

Get locked into bedroom?

Lock house at night?

Ask for permission to sleep. 

Sleep in the cellar with monsters.

Sleep at the foot of father's bed. 

 

Needs a clear direction/separation of all this before it becomes a confusing mess both for me and users. 

 

 

BTW, placed father's buy back chest in his room so that maybe you could sneak in a steal stuff back but lo & behold ? the chest does not lock either... great. Under the floor it goes. 

That does seem like quite an extensive list. I agree that it could probably do with some trimming.

[jc321]

1 hour ago, Monoman1 said:

But yes. Needs more repercussions. I could maybe have father bar you from licences and then you'd have to bribe one of the quartermasters to allow you to buy licences again for say 10,000 gold or something. But without SLS this is obviously toothless. 

 

I could maybe extend the whore reputation to every hold which would decay slowly over a month say. 

 

Not sure if you could utilise SLS (in conjunction with WT) that simply (on kick out) adds your PC to a custom faction, for example, that other NPC's can identify them and treat them in a different way. ie: walk into a tavern or shop and get kicked out, other NPC's comment or do some other action (maybe still possessions, whip character).  - Not sure if possible but could the actual debt owed be a mechanism to do this. Although assume there would need to be a difference between going into town whilst in debt with your father verses how in debt you are after being kicked out. 

 

1 hour ago, Monoman1 said:

Any other ideas for events that might add random/regular debt? Maybe asking to be released from devices also adds debt as well as costing favour.

 

I know you've added loads already so I'll have a think. Off the top of my head at the moment

 - Penalties for not being at home on time? - ie: curfews

- Penalties for any backchat (since there are options) you may have said to Bethlor or something

- Penalties for sleeping for too long or not being in the right place at the right time.. Father can't find you when he wants something for example. 

- Cost for bathing in the new bath?

- if you did something wrong which was picked up by SLS .. ie: carrying weapon, shouting, using magic etc.. could that be reported back into WT?

 

 

 

 

[kapibar]

20 minutes ago, Monoman1 said:

There are beginning to be a little too many sleeping arrangements to reconcile cleanly anyway.

I'm totally with you on that, there's little point in adding complication where it's not necessary.

[audhol]

4 hours ago, Monoman1 said:

Btw. I have added a 'debt collection' system to WT. Basically father will randomly approach looking for the debt to be paid. He will take gold from you and from any container in your room (I plan to remove/replace any other functioning container in the home). If you haven't got the gold to cover it then father will begin taking items from you and/or your storage to cover the cost. You will be able to buy back items from him if/when you get more gold. This is obviously a poverty mechanic. But also if he's taking some good stuff then you will probably endeavor to not get kicked out until you get it back. 

 

I've also added a 'rent' system - father will ask for 50 gold per day for keeping a roof over your head. Probably increasing over time to 100 gold per day. This is plugged into the above debt system. 

 

Any other ideas for events that might add random/regular debt? Maybe asking to be released from devices also adds debt as well as costing favour.

I don't understand how your playing. I set my timesacale to 15 or even 20 but still I'm not making enough gold to cover the expense of mothers treatment when amputator framework is installed and the care cost rises every day. For me there is simply not enough time in the day to keep father happy and complete tasks. TBF I do try to roleplay and only  accept propositions that correspond to the current level of deprivation. I also use lots of npc addons so I get random corpses to loot on the road but still theres never enough gold, how is it that everyone else seems to have too much gold and need a reason to pay even more?

[fred200]

12 minutes ago, audhol said:

I don't understand how your playing. I set my timesacale to 15 or even 20 but still I'm not making enough gold to cover the expense of mothers treatment when amputator framework is installed and the care cost rises every day. For me there is simply not enough time in the day to keep father happy and complete tasks. TBF I do try to roleplay and only  accept propositions that correspond to the current level of deprivation. I also use lots of npc addons so I get random corpses to loot on the road but still theres never enough gold, how is it that everyone else seems to have too much gold and need a reason to pay even more?

 

Some of us gave up trying to earn favor long ago - and just set it through the console.

 

[ck2modfan]

4 hours ago, Monoman1 said:

Btw. I have added a 'debt collection' system to WT. Basically father will randomly approach looking for the debt to be paid. He will take gold from you and from any container in your room (I plan to remove/replace any other functioning container in the home). If you haven't got the gold to cover it then father will begin taking items from you and/or your storage to cover the cost. You will be able to buy back items from him if/when you get more gold. This is obviously a poverty mechanic. But also if he's taking some good stuff then you will probably endeavor to not get kicked out until you get it back. 

 

I've also added a 'rent' system - father will ask for 50 gold per day for keeping a roof over your head. Probably increasing over time to 100 gold per day. This is plugged into the above debt system. 

 

Any other ideas for events that might add random/regular debt? Maybe asking to be released from devices also adds debt as well as costing favour.

Love the concept for debt/rent.

 

Some ideas: (some likely easier to implement than others)

- For licenses, maybe the favor cost is to get the license but there is a real gold cost (full or partial) to get the license. 

- Small fee to use cooking equipment (each time or flat fee per day)

- Charge for the clothes given... seems like gift at first but then get stuck with a high bill!

- Surely there is a tax for holding goods that Belethor is charging that needs to be offset.

- Who is going to pay for the horse care and feeding?

- Brooms for cleaning house are fragile... they can break easily and need to be replaced

- Bed needs periodic cleaning or sleep debuff is worse. Cleaning costs money.

- Dog was for PC companionship. Somebody has to pay for food (and vet bills)

- PC can leave town for free. Maybe some cost is charged back to house and then to PC

- If PC starts to carry around too much gold, a wealth tax!

 

Edited April 29, 2022 by ck2modfan

[Monoman1]

19 minutes ago, audhol said:

I don't understand how your playing. I set my timesacale to 15 or even 20 but still I'm not making enough gold to cover the expense of mothers treatment when amputator framework is installed and the care cost rises every day. For me there is simply not enough time in the day to keep father happy and complete tasks. TBF I do try to roleplay and only  accept propositions that correspond to the current level of deprivation. I also use lots of npc addons so I get random corpses to loot on the road but still theres never enough gold, how is it that everyone else seems to have too much gold and need a reason to pay even more?

Increasing timescale decreases the amount of time in the day.

In any case, rent will include a handy dandy toggle. 

8 minutes ago, fred200 said:

 

Some of us gave up trying to earn favor long ago - and just set it through the console.

 

Tut tut. 

Dont make me change it to a private script variable...

[kapibar]

5 hours ago, audhol said:

I don't understand how your playing. I set my timesacale to 15 or even 20 but still I'm not making enough gold to cover the expense of mothers treatment when amputator framework is installed and the care cost rises every day. For me there is simply not enough time in the day to keep father happy and complete tasks. TBF I do try to roleplay and only  accept propositions that correspond to the current level of deprivation. I also use lots of npc addons so I get random corpses to loot on the road but still theres never enough gold, how is it that everyone else seems to have too much gold and need a reason to pay even more?

Timing is the most important factor in managing WT. If you're fucking with the timescale, that goes out of the window because you cannot properly estimate time between events. The second thing is grouping father's demands - if tension, thirst and hunger are grouped, father becomes predictable and managable. Most jobs take 2-3 hours of game time, so with proper coordination you can earn roughly 90-120 gold a day on tasks alone. YPS fashion requirements give additional boost because father pays a little bit more than PC will spend on fashion accessories. Then you have favours - if you're efficient it is quite possible to earn as much as 50 favours per day, which gives you 500 gold. The best way to manage WT economy is to have a gold buffer BEFORE you become father's servant. 500-1000 gold should give you a headstart and allow you to function with little pressure at least for a few days. How to do that? You can do some quests in Whiterun before starting WT quest, or between visits in Belethor's shop. You also gather every single fucking thing you can get your hands on. As the mod progresses you'll be pretty much forced to level up alchemy. This is obviously a gold mine if you play it smart. There's a ton of options within WT itself, and if you're using other mods, like Cursed Loot or Laura's Shop - you can easily work around the economy.

Now, tips on the game schedule:
7 AM - your day begins -> food, drink, tension.
Around 8 AM to 10 AM -> cleaning the house.
Until 4 PM you should be albe to do at least 2 tasks.
4-5 PM -> food, drink, tension.
5/6 PM -> tasks (1 or 2)
You should be at home for the evening routine (food, drink, tension)

After that - you can chop some wood and go to sleep.

 

Repeat.

Edited April 29, 2022 by kapibar

[safado]

5 hours ago, audhol said:

I don't understand how your playing. I set my timesacale to 15 or even 20 but still I'm not making enough gold to cover the expense of mothers treatment when amputator framework is installed and the care cost rises every day. For me there is simply not enough time in the day to keep father happy and complete tasks. TBF I do try to roleplay and only  accept propositions that correspond to the current level of deprivation. I also use lots of npc addons so I get random corpses to loot on the road but still theres never enough gold, how is it that everyone else seems to have too much gold and need a reason to pay even more?

 

You can use a dynamic timescale mod to tune your game based on cell type or make it fix time between 6 and 12, read a long time ago that a lower setting bugs scenes (do not know if it is factual truth).  Sexlab scene can "eat up" game time if you do not account for it. With a dynamic mod you can set it to interior 6 and outside a little higher, some mods let you setup combat timescale too.

Still, fixed timescale is simpler, your choice. 

 

Edited April 30, 2022 by safado

[audhol]

Yes I did mean to say between 15 and 10 for the timescale. Anyway thanks to @kapibar and @safado for the suggestions. I never thought of doing tasks to make a buffer before starting the timers, non amputator mode its the first few days that are the hardest but with the rising cost when using amputator and now that theres a 2k gold requirment to get ma back I find it hard without cheating.

             

Definately next playthrough I'll try an auto harvest mod and work on alchemy.

 

I did try using lauras bondage shop to get the locked in gold but father doesnt recognise the belt and the ummm interesting DD anim filter causes the wrong scenes to play when belted so you lose favour.

 

I also use whorecraft to level up using sex which later on gives a perk to recieve gold after any sex event. 

 

Agreed that trying to schedule things is a good idea I did notice that the house often seems to get dirty just before 11p.m. forcing me to clean before bedtime. I'm sure monoman snuck in a sneaky line of code somewhere to make that happen!

[kapibar]

2 hours ago, audhol said:

Yes I did mean to say between 15 and 10 for the timescale. Anyway thanks to @kapibar and @safado for the suggestions. I never thought of doing tasks to make a buffer before starting the timers, non amputator mode its the first few days that are the hardest but with the rising cost when using amputator and now that theres a 2k gold requirment to get ma back I find it hard without cheating.

I think you have the wrong idea.

 

Wartimes was designed and is being developed to make your life as a character miserable. You are supposed to struggle with money, do morally unacceptable things to get the gold. There's no scenario in which you win and everyone lives happily ever after. You either walk away with your dignity intact and mother dies, or fail and mother dies, or live as a slave and let mother die, or you're thrown out of the house and mother lives with the man that violated and degraded you.

 

You don't win. You don't succeed. You are a slave and the world is designed to make you struggle. There is no comfortable version of Wartimes where your freedom is limited, but overall you're happy. This is not a Mary Sue Dragonborn story, but a story of a broken, failing girl. So if mother dies because you failed to get the money - that's fine! It's within design and expectations. You shouldn't look at other players and their growing wealth. Most of us use a ton of mods doing different things, so we can actually abuse the game heavily. If you have Laura's Shop - I could give you a recipe for unlimited gold. But I won't do it, because it would devastate the immersion. Wartimes is actually one of if not the most well designed mods on LL - it takes some of the best parts of other mods and uses them in a way that is believable, grim and fits in with the atmosphere of the game. Just let it do its thing and don't think about it too much. Enjoy the humiliation and hopelessness.

Edited April 30, 2022 by kapibar

[audhol]

1 hour ago, kapibar said:

I think you have the wrong idea.

 

Wartimes was designed and is being developed to make your life as a character miserable. You are supposed to struggle with money, do morally unacceptable things to get the gold. There's no scenario in which you win and everyone lives happily ever after. You either walk away with your dignity intact and mother dies, or fail and mother dies, or live as a slave and let mother die, or you're thrown out of the house and mother lives with the man that violated and degraded you.

 

You don't win. You don't succeed. You are a slave and the world is designed to make you struggle. There is no comfortable version of Wartimes where your freedom is limited, but overall you're happy. This is not a Mary Sue Dragonborn story, but a story of a broken, failing girl. So if mother dies because you failed to get the money - that's fine! It's within design and expectations. You shouldn't look at other players and their growing wealth. Most of us use a ton of mods doing different things, so we can actually abuse the game heavily. If you have Laura's Shop - I could give you a recipe for unlimited gold. But I won't do it, because it would devastate the immersion. Wartimes is actually one of if not the most well designed mods on LL - it takes some of the best parts of other mods and uses them in a way that is believable, grim and fits in with the atmosphere of the game. Just let it do its thing and don't think about it too much. Enjoy the humiliation and hopelessness.

Yeah I get all of that, but my origional point was that I don't understand how playing wartimes as it is at the moment leaves the character with any spare gold so I don't get why there needs to be further things that take money off the p.c. Would'nt it just be easier for father to controll the playes gold like DFC and leave just enough to buy makeup? Mothers soup could have a favour cost instead of gold cost.

 

I do agree that both pchs and monoman have done a fantastic job intergrating other mods and building an atmosphere of hopelessness thats unmatched in its immersivness.

[kapibar]

12 minutes ago, audhol said:

Would'nt it just be easier for father to controll the playes gold like DFC and leave just enough to buy makeup? Mothers soup could have a favour cost instead of gold cost.

Easier? Maybe. But not really. Income can be diversified. Favours cannot. You can get the gold anywhere, but favours are only granted by father. If anything, such mechanism would be even more restrictive. Plus it would undermine mod's narrative. The whole situation comes from father's alleged lack of funds. If he suddenly starts to pay for mother's health - it makes him an obvious liar and partially derails his entire plan.

Btw.: The easiest solution of money problem is stealing. It's easy, defined by game mechanics and a lot more rational than fucking everyone like a cheap whore.

Edited April 30, 2022 by kapibar

[audhol]

38 minutes ago, kapibar said:

Btw.: The easiest solution of money problem is stealing. It's easy, defined by game mechanics and a lot more rational than fucking everyone like a cheap whore.

Lol I tried that but being a cheap whore doesnt get assasins sent after you for stealing, the only npc that tried to help was sir gerald from the watchtower, the other guards ran away but despite him having no weapons he tried to onepunchman all the assailants.

[kapibar]

14 minutes ago, audhol said:

Lol I tried that but being a cheap whore doesnt get assasins sent after you for stealing, the only npc that tried to help was sir gerald from the watchtower, the other guards ran away but despite him having no weapons he tried to onepunchman all the assailants.

Pro tip - run to Brumbar. The hounds attack hired thugs. Also - you said it yourself - you have shitload of additional NPCs. Steal, don't kill. You can also safely pickpocket the guards, they don't send thugs.

[Monoman1]

 

 

This is a list of all the hard links and direct script references to Father actor. 

Mother is the same. 

[kapibar]

22 minutes ago, Monoman1 said:

 

 

This is a list of all the hard links and direct script references to Father actor. 

Mother is the same. 

And in idiot's language...?

[Monoman1]

31 minutes ago, kapibar said:

And in idiot's language...?

 

Spoiler

 

Still have to build a swapping system into the menu, bug fix, add safe guards etc.

If anyone has some custom father's (or mothers) they'd like to add to the mod, now would be the time...

Edited April 30, 2022 by Monoman1

[Balgin]

Just to be clear, would the new fathers and mothers be a copy of the existing npc or would they be that npc, taken away from their usual role and transplanted into the mod? Let's say, for example, I wanted to have Ysolda as my mother. Would there still be an identical Ysolda walking around Whiterun, visiting the market, taking her daily walks up to Dragonsreach, asking people to get her a mammoth's tusk etc? Or would Ysolda be removed from the world and my mother would become an Ysolda lookalike called Mother?

 

If the npc is transplanted instead of copied that means we might want to limit who is available as a parent. I don't mean you want to limit it. Just that you might want to warn the player that setting an npc as their parent could break a quest line or render a shop without a merchant so the player ought to think carefully before they choose wisely.

[kapibar]

36 minutes ago, Balgin said:

for example, I wanted to have Ysolda

That would be a bad start - barely born and already stuffed with skooma to stop you from crying at night xD.

[Monoman1]

1 hour ago, Balgin said:

Just to be clear, would the new fathers and mothers be a copy of the existing npc or would they be that npc, taken away from their usual role and transplanted into the mod? Let's say, for example, I wanted to have Ysolda as my mother. Would there still be an identical Ysolda walking around Whiterun, visiting the market, taking her daily walks up to Dragonsreach, asking people to get her a mammoth's tusk etc? Or would Ysolda be removed from the world and my mother would become an Ysolda lookalike called Mother?

 

If the npc is transplanted instead of copied that means we might want to limit who is available as a parent. I don't mean you want to limit it. Just that you might want to warn the player that setting an npc as their parent could break a quest line or render a shop without a merchant so the player ought to think carefully before they choose wisely.

Yea I've been thinking about this a bit. There's pros/cons to both. I'm leaning towards proving the user with the option to clone or not. And just provide some info. But just to say straight away that the main purpose is to use a custom father/mother contained within WTs itself, not really to take over existing npcs but it seems certainly possible. 

 

 

 

[kapibar]

15 minutes ago, Monoman1 said:

Yea I've been thinking about this a bit. There's pros/cons to both. I'm leaning towards proving the user with the option to clone or not. And just provide some info. But just to say straight away that the main purpose is to use a custom father/mother contained within WTs itself, not really to take over existing npcs but it seems certainly possible.

It didn't occured to me earlier, but maybe you're overcomplicating things. I have a mod NPCVisualTransfer, maybe you're not familiar with it. What it does is allow you to copy appearance of basically any NPC and overwrite this data over another NPC. It works like a charm as long as weight of copied and pasted NPC match. The only downside is that every clone is one additional esp, so basically it requires merging. But you're doing all this work, when users can do the job themselves, with no need of putting you to work.

[Balgin]

26 minutes ago, Monoman1 said:

Yea I've been thinking about this a bit. There's pros/cons to both. I'm leaning towards proving the user with the option to clone or not. And just provide some info. But just to say straight away that the main purpose is to use a custom father/mother contained within WTs itself, not really to take over existing npcs but it seems certainly possible. 

 

 

 

 

That's a great relief. No breaking the main storyline by having Jarl Balgruuf as your father or anything.

[Monoman1]

45 minutes ago, kapibar said:

It didn't occured to me earlier, but maybe you're overcomplicating things. I have a mod NPCVisualTransfer, maybe you're not familiar with it. What it does is allow you to copy appearance of basically any NPC and overwrite this data over another NPC. It works like a charm as long as weight of copied and pasted NPC match. The only downside is that every clone is one additional esp, so basically it requires merging. But you're doing all this work, when users can do the job themselves, with no need of putting you to work.

Meh. I am committed now. Itd be just as much work to roll back as I would to finish up. + it'll be nice to be able to change on the fly in game without messing around in editors. 

 

Unfortunately, I have discovered hundreds more references to the base actors that need to be redirected to allow voice overs for other voice types to work.