Wartimes - a daughter's tale LE (Alternate start scenario)

[Monoman1]

2 hours ago, xkyljs said:

Gonna need some help here. I saw back in April that some guys were having issues with the dialogues. Well i've got them too.

The supply run dialogue will only trigger once so i couldn't do the supply job again.

What's more, the new tension dialogue wouldn't come out after the talk.  There's only the "father" dialogue i can choose. 

Does anyone know how to fix this? I've tried v4.2 already but the problems remain there.   

Try rebuilding the SEQ file

1. Load WT in TesEdit

2. Wait for it to finish loading

3. Right click WT -> Other -> Create SEQ file

 

Dunno if this would need a new game to take effect. Are you SE or LE btw?

15 hours ago, lcewolf said:

You have mention before your didn't like the fact that the house was too small.

Well it wasn't me. I got used to that inconsistency 11 years ago . 

I've 2 problems with that house though. 

1. It's two houses stuck together. And once I've seen it I can't unsee it. 

2. More importantly, the bigger I make the house the worse the pathfinding around it is (I never navmeshed the outside of the house. Shhh. Not sure there's much point given whiterun is a popular mod spot)

 

It would be nice to have an appropriate house but I don't see it as critical. 

16 hours ago, leakim said:

Monoman1: I just need to do some final touch-ups, so I can hand it back to pchs.

 

Also Monoman1: I'll refactor the entire damn thing, so I can add these massive new features!

Yea. Jeez :S

16 hours ago, leakim said:

Would it be possible to add a toggle to enable/disable the recurring servicing of Aldo, but keep all other beast related content in? In such a case I guess Aldo would primarily be used as a punishment (or standard? sex progression).

You could add your own toggle by adding an impossible condition to the starting topic "So, daughter, we need to discuss your new position in this family. Surely you recognise that things have changed."

 

GetDead Player == 1 is what I usually use. 

Edited May 11, 2022 by Monoman1

[Monoman1]

I've been debating in my head at which point father should take your clothes as debt payment when you haven't got the gold...? 

After your first blowjob?

Should he take things you need. Like your wood cutting axe...?

Edit: I've decided he'll take anything if you've given anal. Take any of your items except body clothes + axe if you've given a blowjob. Leave all your clothes + axe if you haven't yet given a blowjob. 

 

Also, should I allow the PC to take out debt in addition to asking for gold for favour? IE get 100 gold, get 100 debt. Probably disallow debt for gold if debt > 1000. 

Edit: I've decided yes. 100, 200, 500 options for 'loans'.

 

Also. Any ideas for making Mother more valuable somehow? Keeping her alive needs to be your greatest priority. 

Edited May 11, 2022 by Monoman1

[xkyljs]

1 hour ago, Monoman1 said:

Are you SE or LE btw?

LE, since it's the original version.

Well i'm kinda a novice here. It took several days to get all the requirements installed and ready to run.

I probably had given up long ago if not for this mod that really intrigues me. Guess i do have a thing for this stuff.?

I'm gonna try your suggestions when i get time, probably won't be anytime soon though. I'll let you know if it worked.

Good job getting this thing this far, btw.

[kinkeag]

3 hours ago, Monoman1 said:

Also. Any ideas for making Mother more valuable somehow? Keeping her alive needs to be your greatest priority. 

 

You have the "your technique needs work, watch us have sex" thing, so what about if you watch them have sex you gain "experience" which just takes the form of more favor granted when you perform sex acts on him? 

 

So, E.g: 

watch them have sex 1 time = +1 favour (and depravity?) Next time you have sex with him.

 

Just one road you could go down ?

[kinkeag]

3 hours ago, Monoman1 said:

Also. Any ideas for making Mother more valuable somehow? Keeping her alive needs to be your greatest priority. 

 

Also when she's still "getting treatment", what about somthing like "father smiles wryly at you when you hand him the gold" (to keep mother alive) implying he is pleased his manipulation is working, +2 favour or somthing.

 

Tho im not sure favour gain is a big enough incentive?

 

Just a few thoughts, gl, have fun! 

[kapibar]

4 hours ago, Monoman1 said:

Also. Any ideas for making Mother more valuable somehow? Keeping her alive needs to be your greatest priority. 

Well, there is one thing I can think of, but I don't know how complicated that would be. Some high level goons could wait outside the house one day after mother has been taken. They could rape and beat the PC, after that steal everything except the axe. After the PC goes back into the house, father forcegreets her asking what happened. The player would inform father what happened, he could say something along those lines: "this is the real world, princess, when there's nobody at your side to keep you safe. Now I'll be your guardian, no one will touch you as long as you work for me. I do this only for your mother's sake. If something... unfortunate happens to her, I no longer have any obligations towards you. So you better earn her keep, or the next accident like this will only be a matter of time. And put on these clothes so everybody knows who you belong to". - then father would give PC her first dress.

I don't think players need to be constatly reminded that they have to keep mother safe or else. Introduction of a credible threat should be motivating enough.

Edited May 11, 2022 by kapibar

[Monoman1]

2 hours ago, kinkeag said:

Just a few thoughts, gl, have fun! 

Mmm. I feel they're a bit intangible. If this were real life ofc you'd have that emotional attachment. Don't have that luxury as a video game. That's yet another potential route to develop - a lead up to the current starting time frame where you'd have bonding moments with mother and/or arguments between father & mother. Doubt I'll be going that far though. 

 

1 hour ago, kapibar said:

Well, there is one thing I can think of, but I don't know how complicated that would be. Some high level goons could wait outside the house one day after mother has been taken. They could rape and beat the PC, after that steal everything except the axe. After the PC goes back into the house, father forcegreets her asking what happened. The player would inform father what happened, he could say something along those lines: "this is the real world, princess, when there's nobody at your side to keep you safe. Now I'll be your guardian, no one will touch you as long as you work for me. I do this only for your mother's sake. If something... unfortunate happens to her, I no longer have any obligations towards you. So you better earn her keep, or the next accident like this will only be a matter of time. And put on these clothes so everybody knows who you belong to". - then father would give PC her first dress.

I don't think players need to be constatly reminded that they have to keep mother safe or else. Introduction of a credible threat should be motivating enough.

This doesn't really seem like motivation to keep mother alive. It's more like motivation to work for father. 

 

What I'm looking for really is motivation to keep mother alive while working for father. Motivation to keep mother alive = motivation to work for father anyway since the only way to keep mother alive is by either paying for her 'healing' or paying for her nursing soup. Both of which come through father anyway.

 

It's too easy to just let mother die rather than spending every septim you have (and selling everything you have for septims) to free her. Along with forcing you to steal/beg/whore/take on debt/explore dungeons that are probably going to be too difficult for you. 

 

It's lame but I'm considering making the experience debuff when she dies permanent and make it explicitly clear from the beginning that mother dying = very bad for your playthrough. Or at least perhaps optionally permanent. What I'd like is more tangible, 'real world' consequences for letting her die. 

 

Or perhaps the PC simply kills herself. Game over. But that's VERY dark and I don't like it. 

Edited May 11, 2022 by Monoman1

[Desvati]

31 minutes ago, Monoman1 said:

This doesn't really seem like motivation to keep mother alive. It's more like motivation to work for father. 

 

What I'm looking for really is motivation to keep mother alive while working for father. Motivation to keep mother alive = motivation to work for father anyway since the only way to keep mother alive is by either paying for her 'healing' or paying for her nursing soup. Both of which come through father anyway.

 

It's too easy to just let mother die rather than spending every septim you have (and selling everything you have for septims) to free her. Along with forcing you to steal/beg/whore/take on debt/explore dungeons that are probably going to be too difficult for you. 

 

It's lame but I'm considering making the experience debuff when she dies permanent and make it explicitly clear from the beginning that mother dying = very bad for your playthrough. Or at least perhaps optionally permanent. What I'd like is more tangible, 'real world' consequences for letting her die. 

I would agree with the experience debuff being (optionally) permanent for letting mother die, in addition for those who want to keep the loop of wartimes going to its normal endpoint, maybe mother should HAVE to be alive for you to go down the slave-wife route. Its one thing to denounce your attachment to Mother while she's already gone, its another thing to denounce her while she and Father are in the room together, watching.

[Monoman1]

Perhaps we can spin some magic gobbledygook - Father places a curse on the PC linking her life with her mother's life. Mother dead = PC dead. 

Change nursing soup to a magic, life extending potion.

But I don't know how I'd... inject that into the current plot. 

Edited May 11, 2022 by Monoman1

[kinkeag]

7 minutes ago, Monoman1 said:

Perhaps we can spin some magic gobbledygook - Father places a curse on the PC linking her life with her mother's life. Mother dead = PC dead. 

Change nursing soup to a magic, life extending potion.

But I don't know how I'd... inject that into the current plot. 

Personal I wouldn't like if the pc just out right died, it also doesn't make much sense from father's perspective, putting in all this effort to turn the pc into the perfect slavewife, only to have her killed just when the only tie to her old life died.

 

What about if mother dies, you are locked in either the house or cellar permanently except when father demands you drain Brutus (magic bomb collar if you walk 20m away from the house), fuck clients and what not. Hard bondage, increased rape, double debt, wartimes just ups the difficulty.

 

Your playthrough is effectively finished, but you can continue if you want to endure the torture.

1 hour ago, Monoman1 said:

Mmm. I feel they're a bit intangible. If this were real life ofc you'd have that emotional attachment. Don't have that luxury as a video game. That's yet another potential route to develop - a lead up to the current starting time frame where you'd have bonding moments with mother and/or arguments between father & mother. Doubt I'll be going that far though. 

And yeh, completely agree

[safado]

1 hour ago, Monoman1 said:

Perhaps we can spin some magic gobbledygook - Father places a curse on the PC linking her life with her mother's life. Mother dead = PC dead. 

Change nursing soup to a magic, life extending potion.

But I don't know how I'd... inject that into the current plot. 

 

Suggestion:

What about making the issue about mother be about taxes to the Jarl instead.

Mother is collateral for Father's unpaid taxes, and PC will be too if payment to principal is not done weekly.  That way there is no killing and the misogynist theme is maintained. 

If taxes continue to be unpaid, mother could be sold to someone with a bad reputation, like becoming a Magic experiment subject, and PC get heavily fined in Whiterun.  The dialogue need to be change to create the urgency.

 

 

 

Edited May 11, 2022 by safado

[jc321]

7 hours ago, Monoman1 said:

Also. Any ideas for making Mother more valuable somehow? Keeping her alive needs to be your greatest priority. 

Everytime I walk into the house she's certainly never in her cage. She's off doing some other duty with Father or Aldo. So maybe ditch the cage and she offset some of the chores that your PC will eventually end up doing. Not nice things like cooking etc.. but entertaining Aldo, clearing up floor stains. milking (could you fit a milking machine inside the house?) - And your PC would either accelerate to undertaking those chores faster if she dies? - 

 

If the thought is big punishment if she dies  .. then I like Kinkeag's idea above. That would be better than the simple Father kicks you out of the house and puts a fine on you ..  I still think that's an easy way out!. 

 

As it currently stands .. I do tend to finish off Mother quickly!, PITA to keep maintaining her so do see the need for an incentive to keep her alive.

 

[Monoman1]

 On the side: Father will now lock you inside and rape/beat/drug/device you repeatedly until you start offering your body freely. Not just in effect at the beginning but at any point that you fail to offer yourself. 

 

25 minutes ago, safado said:

 

Suggestion:

What about making the issue about mother be about taxes to the Jarl instead.

Mother is collateral for Father's unpaid taxes, and PC will be too if payment to principal is not done weekly.  That way there is no killing and the misogynist theme is maintained. 

If taxes continue to be unpaid, mother could be sold to someone with a bad reputation, like becoming a Magic experiment subject, and PC get heavily fined in Whiterun.  The dialogue need to be change to create the urgency.

Mmm. Would require a substantial rewrite which I'm not keen on. Was kind of looking for a solution that's low effort/high impact simply because I still have a million things to do already. 

 

1 hour ago, kinkeag said:

What about if mother dies, you are locked in either the house or cellar permanently except when father demands you drain Brutus (magic bomb collar if you walk 20m away from the house), fuck clients and what not. Hard bondage, increased rape, double debt, wartimes just ups the difficulty.

I suppose that's an option. Would need to make it clear at the beginning of the mod that mother dying effectively = game over/life as a slave forever. 

 

It doesn't, however, make a lot of sense that mother is the barrier to that end since she's pretty powerless herself. But I suppose Father could expect more return on his investment if the player were to be allowed to roam more. But again if the player expects mother to die and leaves the house before that happens then she's effectively free. Unless Father was to track her down and drag her back somehow :S

 

And now my head's starting to hurt...

Edited May 11, 2022 by Monoman1

[kinkeag]

10 minutes ago, Monoman1 said:

On the side: Father will now lock you inside and rape/beat/drug/device you repeatedly until you start offering your body freely. Not just in effect at the beginning but at any point that you fail to offer yourself. 

Great, big fan of that.

 

11 minutes ago, Monoman1 said:

It doesn't, however, make a lot of sense that mother is the barrier to that end since she's pretty powerless herself. But I suppose Father could expect more return on his investment if the player were to be allowed to roam more. But again if the player expects mother to die and leaves the house before that happens then she's effectively free. Unless Father was to track her down and drag her back somehow. 

I quite like this actually, maybe just before mother is about to die, there's an inner monologue duologue box which lets the player know, it might be too late to save mother, and if she wants out, now's the time to try and escape.

 

Giving the player 3 Options:

-She escapes and is bound and dragged back anyway (maybe by hired thugs, i can't see father doing the leg work) (game over slave state)

-Or stay until you earn enough to buy her back. (Continuing the slavewife storyline)

-Or stay, mother dies, and you become permanent slave (game over slave state)

 

It gives a fairly good incentive to stay and "earn your keep" to save mother

[trellouk]

I like the idea of optional permanent debuffs. The PC is devastated by her mother's passing and blames herself for it. As a result she loses all her determination and it impacts all her skills and experience gain negatively. In addition, due to her depressed state, the PC is less productive at her jobs and receives less gold for her various repetitive tasks around Whiterun.

[leakim]

10 hours ago, Monoman1 said:

You could add your own toggle by adding an impossible condition to the starting topic "So, daughter, we need to discuss your new position in this family. Surely you recognise that things have changed."

 

GetDead Player == 1 is what I usually use. 

 

Hehe. Sounds nice that it is supposedly so easy.

 

But where would I add such a condition?

• xEdit/zEdit? Tried looking at "Dialog Topic", "Dialog Branch" and "Dialog View" in those. Could not really find it.
• Script edits? Could not find any part of that dialog in those files.
• Creation Kit? Not really sure how to use that tool. Only know how to re-compile scripts. ^_^
• Somewhere else? Would like a pointer for this, because I would really like to disable that part of the mod. 
• Would adding such a condition disable other sex progression that comes after it? Or is this topic detached from sex progression in that you just need to have progressed up to a certain point before it becomes available as a "random force greet".

Edited May 11, 2022 by leakim

[Thelargir]

One thing that could work to really drive home the point that you need to care for your mother, was if she actually remained in the house. Maybe instead of having her "shipped off", she would remain in the house, but always sleeping as if in some kind of coma? I think it would be a good reminder of your duties if she was actually there. Then, you could walk in on your father having sex with her unconscious body, and he says something like "well, she's still my wife, and I have urges. But maybe you'd like to fulfill them instead?" 

 

Something else that could work, was if you received false letters from your mom, which are actually forgeries made by father. In the letters she thanks you for the help, and praises you for being a good girl, while imploring you to listen to your father and do as he tells you.

Also, I think it would be really cool if he forced you to sleep in the same bed as him, or on the floor next to his bed. Maybe turn the PC's room into serving some other kind of function. Perhaps renting out the pc's room to travelers or something? 

Edited May 11, 2022 by Thelargir

[ck2modfan]

rather than killing the PC or locking indefinitely in the house, perhaps:

- father throws PC out of house and takes ALL the PC stuff/gold

- large bounty added, like leaving in the beginning

- word is spread to shun the PC, giving permanent trade nerf

[kapibar]

7 hours ago, Monoman1 said:

Or perhaps the PC simply kills herself. Game over. But that's VERY dark and I don't like it. 

Honestly - it sounds much better than using yet another debuff. This mechanic as a whole is overused to a point of being cliche. And I respect Wartimes mostly for the fact that it dared being different. It used Skyrim's lore as a foundation of story instead of being yet another enslavement mod with a prosthesis for a plot. Honestly, man, what you did to this mod is far too innovative to use tired solutions. So I'll try to be creative.

You have one more card to play that's built into the mod - the uncle. I think he might be your proper motivator. How about this: when mother gets sent away, uncle comes with a visit because he heard something has happened to his little sister. And of course this is all PC's fault. She was fine before she gave birth to this little bitch, now this parasite has sucked out all the strength from her poor mother. And if anything happens to his dear little sister, the uncle WILL kill the PC. He's old, grizzled, but experienced ex-adventurer. Let's say Ebony Warrior-level experienced. If he comes after the the PC - she can put up a fight, but without some ridiculous power-up he will murder her. And if the player uses some kind of death alternative mod - no problem. He will beat the PC to shit and walk away, just to return few days after, to make her life insufferable.

I think this would be much more intresting than yet another debuff. The player can try to run away, hide, but he'll always come back. And if you're extra mean, you can make him an unkillable juggernaut, coming back even after suffering a defeat.

[GeorgiaCav]

On the one hand, it's never been an issue to me, and it's just an RP thing, to play my WT PC's as wanting desperately to save their mothers. 

 

But if you want to force the PC to give a crap about mother's death, how about having Father frame the PC for mother's murder if she dies? After all, the PC GIVES HER THE HERBS that knock her out and make her sick. As far as anyone outside Father and Belethor are concerned, the mother's death could easily have been the PC's fault.

 

So then Caius or the Jarl or someone shows up and arrests the PC. After a couple of years in the dungeons, the PC is released with some spell or unremoveable item that permanently severs her from magicka, or weakens her in other ways.

 

Father could warn the PC about this outcome -- "If you don't do as I say, I'll make sure everyone knows you murdered your mother. Do you have any idea what happens to matricides in this blasted land? Trust me, you don't want to find out."

 

Depending on how deep you want to go, there could even be a quest to get Belethor to confess the truth to the authorities, as a way of getting your magicka back. Something time consuming and deeply humiliating. And the scars could be permanent even so.

 

Just brainstorming. Of course there's the problem of where she actually is, but you could expand the circle of conspirators to include anyone else that would know.

Edited May 11, 2022 by GeorgiaCav

[lorddenorstrus]

Why is it even a bad thing @Monoman1  I always figured the entire goal through the og design was to brainwash PC to the point they don't care and let her die intentionally.  ie slavewife ending.  

 

Personally, considering you've already cleaned things up, reduced original dependencies and want to open the mod up in as many ways.  Amputated Framework is barely used, its for a single event and eats at slots.  Why not remove the amputation aspect entirely?  It feels odd as is really.  And instead just have the "Mother" get turned into a collared slave of father on return that assists on PCs chores.  As you've upped the ante so to speak, so that as is it's incredibly difficult to maintain the gold unless players min/max time adventuring because the og system for gold just is an out dated time waste at this point.   (really though the og events need to have increased gold or be deleted, they're a trap to people who haven't been testing this entire time to see the mod progress as you've developed it way past it's original point) Giving the player a free 'chore reduction' mechanic and a key in that getting slaves of their own to continue helping father will allow more time to gather gold.   

 

And you could have it so Mother was "away getting slave trained" the entire time.  So her eventual return she's an obedient toy for Father.  As DD is.. being added more from what I've read from you?  I don't think it's a huge stretch.  It also lets the ending scenarios become more fleshed out, as he plans to do the same to pc.   Collar and permanently enslave after slowly brain washing them into being a Babymaker.

 

The only thing I've debated otherwise, is the time inbetween events that the PC is adventuring so to speak (after all this is still Skyrim and not just it's own game lol; and you personally have mentioned in tests you adventure for $) why the father seems to accepted or ok?  With the PC running off to do that stuff.  As mentioned the tasks seem out dated, new task X be a psuedo steal of Skyrims go to X do Y system from Stewards?  Father steals wanted posters, lies about the reward and gets PC to do the work for the gold?   Why PC doesn't escape could be resolved with a Collar that forces the player to return after X amount of time.  (ingame teleport, explain it as collar mentally forcing the pc to go back)

[Kryona]

Is the Alchemy Table supposed to disappear? I've lost it twice now but i can't figure out if its a bug or if its intended punishment because i messed something up. 

[lorddenorstrus]

21 minutes ago, Kryona said:

Is the Alchemy Table supposed to disappear? I've lost it twice now but i can't figure out if its a bug or if its intended punishment because i messed something up. 

When the Bed changes it can reset the table, I don't think it's supposed to, so I just haven't bothered with it or wait for the 'final bed' before getting it.

[xkyljs]

18 hours ago, Monoman1 said:

Try rebuilding the SEQ file

1. Load WT in TesEdit

2. Wait for it to finish loading

3. Right click WT -> Other -> Create SEQ file

 

I did take some time and try your suggestions. But sadly it seems not to work for me. Was there something I did wrong? 

I chose OK here and it got onto the next page which was like this:

And i right clicked it and chose other and created SEQ file. In the end it shows this:

And i got into game and saw no change in my saves.

So i took some time and run a new save to see if things had changed. But sadly there was still new dialogue choice after the tension talk.

I haven't really checked the supply run task tho, since i failed twice for the sake of time. Maybe it has been fixed.

[kapibar]

5 hours ago, lorddenorstrus said:

Why not remove the amputation aspect entirely?  It feels odd as is really.

The thing that pisses me off the most about the whole amputation thing is mother's behaviour when Spank That Ass event fires up. She casually leaves her cage to slap your ass when cooking. It's an immediate immersion breaker. And this whole explanation about magic and that her limbs might be reattached is taking inspiration from Slaverun. But on the other hand SLS does use Amputator, so it's not a waste of a slot only for WT's sake.

As for your suggestion about tasks - indeed they add nothing after a certain point, but the mod would be boring and empty as fuck without them. I don't go adventuring as it would be kinda off-character, so if there are no tasks, going through WT would require a lot of time skipping. If the mod goes the whore route, father should also force PC to become crafting slave - making potions and jewelry for sale. This would keep non-adventuring players at home and also reduce the boredom.