Wartimes - a daughter's tale LE (Alternate start scenario)

[Monoman1]

  

13 hours ago, leakim said:

But where would I add such a condition?

TesEdit probably the handiest. FormID 072568B5. Add the condition there. Needs to be done on a save where that dialogue has not yet happened. Don't think it will limit progress.

6 hours ago, Kryona said:

Is the Alchemy Table supposed to disappear? I've lost it twice now but i can't figure out if its a bug or if its intended punishment because i messed something up. 

Table is commandeered when your favour dips into negative territory. Just like your bed. 

4 hours ago, xkyljs said:

But sadly there was still new dialogue choice after the tension talk.

Sorry but I've no clue what causes this. 

WT should be lower than alternate start in your load order. Loot won't do this. 

pchsFatherSex should be 0 for tense dialogue IIRC. Do 'help pchsFatherSex' in the console to see what it's at. 

Edited May 12, 2022 by Monoman1

[kinkeag]

On 4/12/2022 at 9:08 PM, Monoman1 said:

There's no flowchart (you're giving me way too much credit. I usually just wing it)

Though the overall structure hasn't changed much. I've mostly just added stuff to the middle. 

 

I can't really take on another mod full time anyway. So the plan is to finish off and thats that. 

 

Like I've said before there's so many angles this mod could have that I could probably work on it forever but I have my own mods to work on. So the current plan is to:

 

1. Finish off the new meal system (currently having trouble with crafting recipes and all the various crafting overhauls *sighface*)

2. Extend it to the party. 

3. Polish the party a little - dialog doesn't change after pregnancy. Sex to require orgasms otherwise party satisfaction decreases. Maybe some dancing spectation. 

4. Rework party satisfaction (again) - base score on maximum possible points for the tasks given. 

5. Introduce the pc to whoring.

6. Add some customers coming to home looking for a good time.

7. Have father demand a whoring quota from <insert whoring mod here>

8. Maybe polish up the endings a little. 

9. Finish cellar rework

10. Finish a couple of other thing I have half done.

11. See if I can unlink all the direct references to father and 'uncentralize' him. This will be painful... but it should hopefully allow you to swap in/out father variations. Possibly even vanilla npcs... want nazeem to be your daddy? It might be possible... though I don't know about killing essential npcs...

 

There's probably more I've forgotten but that's a shit ton of work for 11 bullet points...

Can you give us an idea of what stuff you've completed or is close to being completed, and the stuff thats causing you strife rn? 

[audhol]

On 5/11/2022 at 10:35 AM, Monoman1 said:

Also. Any ideas for making Mother more valuable somehow? Keeping her alive needs to be your greatest priority. 

You know that mysterious potion in deviously enslaved continued that after you've drunk it you have to ask the follower to give them oral or you get a debuff to health and stamina. What if you applied something similar after the first time father makes you lick mothers pussy? Father could apply some kind of magic cream onto mother and then explain afterwards that daughter needs to taste the pussy at least once every couple of days or she will slowly die. You would have to beg father to let you lick mother, don't know if its possible to have the swallow popup with an anim tagged FF.

[Monoman1]

1 hour ago, kinkeag said:

Can you give us an idea of what stuff you've completed or is close to being completed, and the stuff thats causing you strife rn? 

No strife. Just talking out things to do with endings. Helps the creative process. 

 

Let's talk about the endings. They're... inconsistent IMO. Lets talk about the current outcomes (I'll probably forget something):

1. Work your ass off and become father's 'slave wife'. Mother dies. - Long and difficult. No positive outcome as such other than maintaining access to favour and it's benefits (and drawbacks). 

2. Same as above but you get enough gold to get mother back. She hates you now and throws you out. This is probably the 'best' ending? But is also long and difficult and not very rewarding. 

3. Just leave. Mother dies. Exp gain debuff for 1 month of gameplay. Pretty easy

4. Kill father. Mother dies. Exp gain debuff. Bounties in every hold. Moderate

5. Go to uncle benji. Get SD enslaved. Mother dies presumably. Never followed this ending very far. Easy enough once you lead SD Benji to his inevitable death. 

 

1/2 is obviously where the 'meat' of the mod is. It should be the preferred path but instead 2, 3 & 4 are all shorter and easier paths. I'm beginning to think that these endings aren't really a good thing for the mod. I mean if you want to get SD enslaved I'm sure there's an AS start mod for that. Choices/outcomes are usually a good thing but when they're as deep as a puddle then are they really a good thing..?

 

Why should I do 1 or 2 and not 3, 4 or 5 instead? 

Given the amount of time and effort 1 and 2 take the only deterrence from going down the route of 3, 4 and 5, IMO, would be effective game over conditions - death, enslaved forever, imprisoned forever or otherwise doomed in some fashion. They're the only reason I'd strive for 1 or 2. 

 

So what about 3, 4 & 5 changed to doomed outcomes. 

2 = possibly best outcome but extremely difficult if not impossible.

1 = second best outcome. Perhaps on completion favour points double for rewards to give you something. Or maybe you get your twin sister as a reward. 

 

Some good ideas there from people.

I particularly like the ideas of:

1. Mother having an avenging brother (though I don't think that can be Benji as he's just some guy living in a shack + it'd mess with the benji ending). But I have some issues with it (like why he never had an issue with your abusive father before now)

2. Being framed by father for mother's death. 

 

@lorddenorstrus

Yes I'd forgotten that angle. Perhaps if mother dies after becoming father's slave wife then he doesn't frame the pc for her death. Nor does the PC feel regret for her having died - brainwashed (no exp debuff). Slave wife can happen very quickly though depending on your pregnancy mod and starting cycle. So conditions would have to be extended possibly to depravity/submission maxed + other milestones reached. 

 

As for bringing mother back instead of caged, I think it'd simply take too much of a re-write at this stage...

Edited May 12, 2022 by Monoman1

[Monoman1]

20 minutes ago, audhol said:

You know that mysterious potion in deviously enslaved continued that after you've drunk it you have to ask the follower to give them oral or you get a debuff to health and stamina. What if you applied something similar after the first time father makes you lick mothers pussy? Father could apply some kind of magic cream onto mother and then explain afterwards that daughter needs to taste the pussy at least once every couple of days or she will slowly die. You would have to beg father to let you lick mother, don't know if its possible to have the swallow popup with an anim tagged FF.

As I was reminded I can't really tie the PCs fate to mother's because her dying is one of the natural outcomes. Or at least I can not tie your fate permanently with hers. Perhaps if a certain milestone is reach then father would remove said curse though.

[audhol]

5 minutes ago, Monoman1 said:

Perhaps if a certain milestone is reach then father would remove said curse though.

Or rub his magic cream on something else.

[jc321]

24 minutes ago, Monoman1 said:

I mean if you want to get SD enslaved I'm sure there's an AS start mod for that.

There's also a SD enslaved route already within WT (ie: be sarcastic with father at opening scenes) and that did have additional WT dialogue options with Father over and above the normal SD. I wondered if those additional dialogues could have been expanded.. But SD (given it's pitfulls) is quite a good closure scenario and could work for some of your endings. .. 

 

Closure outcome for me (if going down the failure route) would be being condemned to the cellar, forced to work/craft a 12 hour shift making things for father to sell/profit on and with the occasional random visits from Father/Aldo/AN other for sexual favours/gratification .. with no hope of escape. That could work for options 1 & 2??

 

My mindset though is not expecting any normal playthrough of Skyrim so being kicked out to be allowed to continue play with 1 month debuffs doesn't work for me because I always start new whenever a new mod comes out.  

 

If I was really going out on a limb here, it'd be maybe you take the same wonderful attitude to pchs's wolflclub mod and modified/updated that one (since you're familiar with his code) and updated and  that could be used to reflect an outcome from WT ... ok maybe not! (I can dream at least)

[kapibar]

1 hour ago, Monoman1 said:

5. Go to uncle benji. Get SD enslaved. Mother dies presumably.

Except she doesn't. This ending is seriously undercooked, the mother goes back to father as soon as the dialogue is completed.

The problem with other endings is that the mother is still easily accessible in Whiterun. Remove that, you remove ending no. 5. Also, no. 1 is not an ending, not really. You still have option - kill father, so no. 4 is "above" no. 1.

I think SD scenarios should be removed altogether. Someone reasonably stated that WT's mechanics surpassed SD, and that was stated before your developments. Maybe instead you could implement "stricter" rules? If you're acting rude in the beginning of the mod, you go directly to cellar for "reeducation" (no clothes, forced devices, locked doors until PC submits).

[Balgin]

3 hours ago, Monoman1 said:

Let's talk about the endings. They're... inconsistent IMO. Lets talk about the current outcomes (I'll probably forget something):

1. Work your ass off and become father's 'slave wife'. Mother dies. - Long and difficult. No positive outcome as such other than maintaining access to favour and it's benefits (and drawbacks). 

2. Same as above but you get enough gold to get mother back. She hates you now and throws you out. This is probably the 'best' ending? But is also long and difficult and not very rewarding. 

3. Just leave. Mother dies. Exp gain debuff for 1 month of gameplay. Pretty easy

4. Kill father. Mother dies. Exp gain debuff. Bounties in every hold. Moderate

5. Go to uncle benji. Get SD enslaved. Mother dies presumably. Never followed this ending very far. Easy enough once you lead SD Benji to his inevitable death. 

 

I'd like to suggest 6: Escape with Futa sister and become her Devious Follower/Submissive Lola victim just when you thought you'd escaped from one malicious controlling manipulative individual to realise you're now stuck with another who's also sort of trauma bonded (and could easily be a mod hand off).

 

Since you asked earlier - Sexlab Hormones still has a working futa curse with it's own penis model (although I believe the penis might be an optional download). Hormones is part of the SD family of mods by Deep Blue Frog so there might be some synergy as Wartimes is using SD already.

 

Another thought: Instead of having the xp debuff for the mother's death become permanent how about a smaller temporary xp debuff every time you fail to supply money for the mother's treatment? That way removing the debuff could be an incentive for the player to keep up with the payments.

Edited May 12, 2022 by Balgin

[Monoman1]

 

I'm going to need a bigger menu :S

[Balgin]

2 minutes ago, Monoman1 said:

I'm going to need a bigger menu :S

Or perhaps one with separate pages/tabs.

[Monoman1]

2 minutes ago, Balgin said:

Or perhaps one with separate pages/tabs.

That's what I meant

[xkyljs]

5 hours ago, Monoman1 said:

pchsFatherSex should be 0 for tense dialogue IIRC. Do 'help pchsFatherSex' in the console to see what it's at. 

I checked it just now and it was actually -2. 

I think i will just try to set it to 0 later and see what happens? Or maybe i should try something else?

Anyway thank you for your patience. I really appreciate it.

[kapibar]

1 hour ago, Monoman1 said:

That's what I meant

Monoman: making MCM is boring and daunting task.
Also Monoman: ~17 tabs in SLS menu.

 

1 hour ago, Balgin said:

Since you asked earlier - Sexlab Hormones still has a working futa curse with it's own penis model (although I believe the penis might be an optional download). Hormones is part of the SD family of mods by Deep Blue Frog so there might be some synergy as Wartimes is using SD already.

I gave Hormones an honest shot, but this mod creates more problems than fun. Too many functions not working properly or at all, too complicated for its own good and this idea actually adds to what I call "loverslab syndrome" - every mod has an endless list of requirements.

[Balgin]

8 minutes ago, kapibar said:

Monoman: making MCM is boring and daunting task.
Also Monoman: ~17 tabs in SLS menu.

 

I gave Hormones an honest shot, but this mod creates more problems than fun. Too many functions not working properly or at all, too complicated for its own good and this idea actually adds to what I call "loverslab syndrome" - every mod has an endless list of requirements.

Yeah. Hormones isn't perfect but at least it's an option that does what Monoman was asking for.

[kapibar]

4 minutes ago, Balgin said:

Yeah. Hormones isn't perfect but at least it's an option that does what Monoman was asking for.

I don't know if it can do the futa thing, but I do know it can go nuclear with many other mods and make a mess out of things. Imho the risks outweight the potential benefits.

[Monoman1]

54 minutes ago, kapibar said:

~17 tabs in SLS menu.

Yep. SLS is the reason I hate Mcms. And translations. As much as a pain as Mcms are, a translated Mcm = pain++++

 

I think I'll create a post later (or maybe edit the one above) to create a map of the current and projected outcomes of the mod. Adding any changes to it along the way. I need a map at this stage. As difficult as it is to reconcile all the various paths/outcomes/requirements for outcomes with words, imagine doing it with numbers...

54 minutes ago, kapibar said:

adds to what I call "loverslab syndrome" - every mod has an endless list of requirements.

Or you could ask each individual modder to build all the their requirements from scratch. I'm sure that'll work out just fine 

I haven't been big on adding requirements up to now. Doubt I'll start now. 

If I manage to sort out a futa mod then 'sister is a futa' or 'sister is forced to become a futa' option would be dependent on that futa mod being installed - You could still have a sister. Just not a futa sister. 

 

'sister is a futa' or 'sister is forced to become a futa' - I haven't decided which yet but I think forced to become would be more interesting as one of Father's schemes to dominate you further. 'Sister is a futa' wouldn't even need explanation really. 

Edited May 12, 2022 by Monoman1

[Balgin]

1 hour ago, kapibar said:

I don't know if it can do the futa thing, but I do know it can go nuclear with many other mods and make a mess out of things. Imho the risks outweight the potential benefits.

I've no idea which conflicts you know about but I'd like to know about them too.

[theprogamer+715]

How would we know when this house update will come out, kinda want to be in the know when it releases

[Desvati]

9 hours ago, Monoman1 said:

I'm going to need a bigger menu :S

Looking real good though!

 

7 hours ago, Monoman1 said:

'sister is a futa' or 'sister is forced to become a futa' - I haven't decided which yet but I think forced to become would be more interesting as one of Father's schemes to dominate you further. 'Sister is a futa' wouldn't even need explanation really. 

I would agree that the 'forced to become' route is more interesting, giving the PC a hand in their own continued torture - especially poignant if, like you mentioned, you get the sister as a result of going down the slavewife route.

 

13 hours ago, Monoman1 said:

Let's talk about the endings. They're... inconsistent IMO. Lets talk about the current outcomes (I'll probably forget something):

1. Work your ass off and become father's 'slave wife'. Mother dies. - Long and difficult. No positive outcome as such other than maintaining access to favour and it's benefits (and drawbacks). 

2. Same as above but you get enough gold to get mother back. She hates you now and throws you out. This is probably the 'best' ending? But is also long and difficult and not very rewarding. 

3. Just leave. Mother dies. Exp gain debuff for 1 month of gameplay. Pretty easy

4. Kill father. Mother dies. Exp gain debuff. Bounties in every hold. Moderate

5. Go to uncle benji. Get SD enslaved. Mother dies presumably. Never followed this ending very far. Easy enough once you lead SD Benji to his inevitable death. 

Even narratively the endings are a bit inconsistent with themselves.

Ending 1. is the natural culmination of what Father wants.
Ending 2. is the culmination of what the PC wants (as their stated goal at least), but it backfires and Mother kicks them out. Its internally inconsistent as Father suddenly stops being an entity with any agency.
Ending 3. Less a strict ending and more just a logical deadend of the mod. It becomes inconsistent with Father's seemingly deep resources.
Ending 4. is the "dark path" where the PC realises her only way out is to remove Father, unfortunately, Mother dies and the PC has no foundation in the grim (SLS'd) world of Skyrim.
Ending 5. Whether enslaved by Father or Benji, its a hand off to SD, and essentially just a deadend for the mod. Benji required tip-toeing to not end up enslaved, otherwise he is mysteriously swayed by Father (who is okay with giving up his prized quarry, suddenly).

Typically, if its not an ending perpetrated by Father, he tends to get sidelined randomly by other characters, which is really weird given his prevalence everywhere else.

[kapibar]

7 hours ago, Balgin said:

I've no idea which conflicts you know about but I'd like to know about them too.

For example it doesn't exactly play nice with YPS (bimbo curse) - the hair growth not only stops, but the player can't even change the hairstyle. It's cool and all, but when SLS for example triggers rape head shave - the hair won't grow back (or it stays the same, but is considered short by YPS, I don't exactly remember which of the two). The conflict with PSQ has been around for years and it's still there (causing breasts to go flat). The swelling function is rather unpredictable and the PC is swelled more times than not. Everytime pretty much. There's a ton of functions that do not work, like hair color change in Sanguine's quest. And both mods are developed by the same person. I know Hormones is big and complicated in its internal mechanics, but there's little point in trading one functionality for a ton of potential complications. WT's experience is highly dependant on SLS and we do know MM1 made them compatible. However SLS is incompatible with Hormones and these two will not bounce off each other in a good way. Can this be addressed? It sure can, but as it is now, adding Hormones as a requirement to WT would trigger conflict with SLS which is a hard requirement for the full experience. So I kinda don't see the benefit in using an obviously undercooked mod as a solution to a problem resulting from an undercooked futa mechanics and thus making quite robust set of mods (WT + SLS) unpredictable.

Just to be clear - I'm not trying to smear DBF, who's doing what he can and adds patch after patch to his mods. I have SD in my modlist since forever, if only for the Sanguine's quest, but I cannot in clear conscience recommend SLH as safe and predictable mod with easily managable mechanics. And if SLH refuses to cooperate with SD - a member of the same family of mods - then I wouldn't consider it a reasonable "partner" for WT and SLS.

Edited May 12, 2022 by kapibar

[lcewolf]

23 hours ago, ck2modfan said:

rather than killing the PC or locking indefinitely in the house, perhaps:

- father throws PC out of house and takes ALL the PC stuff/gold

- large bounty added, like leaving in the beginning

- word is spread to shun the PC, giving permanent trade nerf

I think it's actually already an option with enough negative point.

 

22 hours ago, GeorgiaCav said:

On the one hand, it's never been an issue to me, and it's just an RP thing, to play my WT PC's as wanting desperately to save their mothers. 

 

But if you want to force the PC to give a crap about mother's death, how about having Father frame the PC for mother's murder if she dies? After all, the PC GIVES HER THE HERBS that knock her out and make her sick. As far as anyone outside Father and Belethor are concerned, the mother's death could easily have been the PC's fault.

 

So then Caius or the Jarl or someone shows up and arrests the PC. (After a couple of years in the dungeons, the PC is released with some spell or unremoveable item that permanently severs her from magicka, or weakens her in other ways.)

 

Father could warn the PC about this outcome -- "If you don't do as I say, I'll make sure everyone knows you murdered your mother. Do you have any idea what happens to matricides in this blasted land? Trust me, you don't want to find out."

Whoa it's pure Genius. A perfert Blackmail. Just missing the «supposed reason» for the murder.

 

For my part i would add few option, Once Caius or Jarl come at home you could have few way to pay for the «crime»

• Unending serve father as slavewife for your crime
• Take your chance and risk to be Sell as a Slave in worse condition (Slaverun, simple slavery, Devious follower, Submissive lola...)
• Serve as public whore in enforcer mod with a huge amount of client.
• the PC is released with some spell or unremoveable item that permanently severs her from magicka, or weakens her in other ways.( The pet collar could be fine :))

 

 

 

[Balgin]

2 hours ago, kapibar said:

For example it doesn't exactly play nice with YPS (bimbo curse) - the hair growth not only stops, but the player can't even change the hairstyle. It's cool and all, but when SLS for example triggers rape head shave - the hair won't grow back (or it stays the same, but is considered short by YPS, I don't exactly remember which of the two). The conflict with PSQ has been around for years and it's still there (causing breasts to go flat). The swelling function is rather unpredictable and the PC is swelled more times than not. Everytime pretty much. There's a ton of functions that do not work, like hair color change in Sanguine's quest. And both mods are developed by the same person. I know Hormones is big and complicated in its internal mechanics, but there's little point in trading one functionality for a ton of potential complications. WT's experience is highly dependant on SLS and we do know MM1 made them compatible. However SLS is incompatible with Hormones and these two will not bounce off each other in a good way. Can this be addressed? It sure can, but as it is now, adding Hormones as a requirement to WT would trigger conflict with SLS which is a hard requirement for the full experience. So I kinda don't see the benefit in using an obviously undercooked mod as a solution to a problem resulting from an undercooked futa mechanics and thus making quite robust set of mods (WT + SLS) unpredictable.

Just to be clear - I'm not trying to smear DBF, who's doing what he can and adds patch after patch to his mods. I have SD in my modlist since forever, if only for the Sanguine's quest, but I cannot in clear conscience recommend SLH as safe and predictable mod with easily managable mechanics. And if SLH refuses to cooperate with SD - a member of the same family of mods - then I wouldn't consider it a reasonable "partner" for WT and SLS.

I found a workaround with hair growth potions, scissors (default item) and shampoo but yeah, the Bimbo curse does mess with YPS (despite ironically utilising it). You can go to the ahirdressers the day before it becomes permanent and get a haircut, style & dye and those won't change on the final day when the bimbo curse becomes permanent. You would want to turn off any rape cuts in mcm's 'though.

 

I wasn't aware of the SLS conflict so that's good to know about.

[Balgin]

2 hours ago, Desvati said:

I would agree that the 'forced to become' route is more interesting, giving the PC a hand in their own continued torture - especially poignant if, like you mentioned, you get the sister as a result of going down the slavewife route.

Especially with the implication that "if he can do that to her he might do it to me". Even if he doesn't (and probably never will) it's a threat he could hold over your head.

 

"Now be a good girl and suck your sister's dick while I shove mine in your arse."

[GeorgiaCav]

3 hours ago, lcewolf said:

 

 

Whoa it's pure Genius. A perfert Blackmail. Just missing the «supposed reason» for the murder.

 

 

 

Father's been planting the idea around town that the PC is a wild delinquent. He could say she wanted to replace her mother as his wife and take more direct control of the farm. Sort of like Abigail in The Crucible but with incest.

 

Or that she's a budding necromancer who wanted to boost her powers by using her mother's soul. To gain access to a very dark, powerful, and costly spell. This would also explain why the authorities would want to sever her from magicka forever.

Edited May 13, 2022 by GeorgiaCav