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On 12/17/2019 at 5:15 PM, Code Serpent said:
On 12/17/2019 at 2:33 PM, Vita2016 said:

Does this mod connected to Simple Slavery?

Not currently.

If interfacing with Simple Slavery is in your future plans, Code Serpent, it would provide an interesting new mechanic to captivity in the form of time pressure. 

 

If the player sets the chance to be sold as a slave in the MCM, that check could be be made at the point at which the captors throw the PC out.  If the enslavement roll fails, then rescue occurs.  Otherwise, the PC is sold and SS+ kicks off the slave auction.  With the threat of possible enslavement, the player will have to work fast to try to escape and make smart choices.  Raising the PC's threat level shortens the time before the captors kick the PC out, so risky moves that make the PC look like too much trouble are unwise. 

 

DiD might also offer an enslavement roll at the time of surrender so that players can have it either way (or both ways), but the delayed enslavement check at the end plays to this mod's strengths and seems more interesting. 

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So, first playtest. 
This is the feedback:

 

New Features in General:

I know its your mod, but I feel that alot of feedback was left out in the new version. The only real change I can see is the option to toggle shock/trauma/theft etc.

- I still cannot manage the number of rape scenes

- I still cannot manage the type of scenes played (group vs. 1vs1 for example). 

- the new values for defeat (threat and weakness) make no real sense to me and at least from values 1-4 seem to have zero impact on the actions, the number of scenes played, the behaviour of bandits after sex (when they follow me around) etc. I also cannot manage them or turn them off or adjust them to fixed positions.
- I still cannot manage the DD items used by the mod 

 

New Version Issues:

This is Redorans Retreat Test:

- I use SD Cages mod by Inte but the cage is not used by DiD after blackout ever

- most of the times the number of scenes played is 1 (for the old version it was an endless chainrape, but this is now the other extreme)

- After blackout bandits never move me to a hidden spot like in the old version. I remember in Redorans Retreat they usually put me in the end of the cave somewhere. Now they dont do that and neither put me in the SD Cages cage. 

 

Escape Game Problems

Escape is impossible. I put "prompt" in MCM and can chose between surrender and fight. 

1. Fight
I walk to the end of the cage (next to the door). I open the door. The prompt comes up. I press "fight". The NPC behind me turns hostile. I leave the cave.
The NPC comes outside with me, still aggro. He follows me. Then my Player controls stop, I cannot move, but the NPC also does not attack me. Nothing happens basically. I have to use "EPC" in console to continue. The NPC follows me again.

So the only way to get this done seems to be to kill the NPC, because no matter how far I get from the NPC the quest does not seem to stop (escape succesful)
Sadly the NPC AI package seems to go all wild because the NPC keeps running away to unknown targets and I cannot keep up to kill him lol (because my controls freeze every dozen steps). 
So I cannot really try to kill him and see if I can end the quest that way.

 

2. Escape through door to outside

I walk through the cave until I manage to lose the NPC stalking me. 

I walk to the door to the outside. 

I use the door (i m not seen there. no prompt)

I am outside...

The NPC that stalkes me beams next to me...

If I try to run the prompt comes up... 
If I chose to fight, see above. 

So basically when you escape you dont escape and the NPCs just cheat beam themselves next to you.

 

Surrender Hotkey:

From the mod description I understand that the surrender hotkey is meant to start the DiD Defeat directly.
It does not for me. 
I surrender once -> down on the ground, enemies aggro again (avoid beeing captured)

I surrender a second time -> failed to avoid bla -> DiD starts

I find the whole "get downed two times" unecessary in general, anyway. Why is it there? 

 

Suggestions:

- Leaving the Indoor Location sucessfully, no matter if during a fight or when u manage to lose your stalke, the quest should end. Its hard enough to do that.

- NPCs should rape the player  frequently while he is walking through the area even when the PC is doing nothing special.

I will continue testing now with different locations and also creatures.

 

 

EDIT: added the log. 
It has some stack dumps in it but I cannot see which mod causes them here and if its responsible for any of the behaviour above. 
I made a new game for this and did not install anything on a ongoing game. 


EDIT: I have defeat installed but all auto surrender functions are disabled. all mods only work with surrender hotkeys. 

Papyrus.0.log

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Test 2: 

Slavers Den

 

Same Issues.

Cage is not used.

After Blackout I am still at the place where I surrendered

 

Difference: this time it was the old chain rape again. About 10 bandits resulted in 4-5 rapes I think. 
So in Redorans Retreat it were like 4 bandits and 1 rape scene every time. 

There was no single group animation played. 

Also, this time the "prompt" appeared the second I managed to sneak out of the cave (even with the next bandit quite far away) 
This resulted in a black loading screen I could see nothing. 
I hit enter and heard that the prompt was still active and that I now had selected surrender.

 

Load Screen ends, I am outside. Alll bandits beam outside.

Chain Rape Starts.
Other NPC come by, a fight starts. 
My Sex Scene never fully initializes. After that nothing is working anymore, bandits just standing around, some seem to fight something somewhere :(
 

Again a stackdump in the log :(

If this is my fault somewhere just tell me what to do different and I try it again. 

 

Papyrus.0.log

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6 minutes ago, Code Serpent said:

I can't even scroll to the part where defeat happened because of all the papyrus dumps. Your game is irreparably borked. Test it on slimmed down mod list.

Hmm. Its already pretty slimmed down. A very similar profile worked flawlessly before. I will try again later nonetheless. 
I just cant tell which mod is causing it sadly  :( 
 

Some of the points above still stand without the playtest in mind, tho :P

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23 minutes ago, Nymra said:

Hmm. Its already pretty slimmed down. A very similar profile worked flawlessly before. I will try again later nonetheless. 
I just cant tell which mod is causing it sadly  :( 
 

Some of the points above still stand without the playtest in mind, tho :P

You should read the !Important Compatibility Issue! paragraph at the top of the description. It might be relevant.

 

As for the points you brought up that I can cover:

-SD Cages can only be supported by a patch. I cannot hook into that mod without having markers with appropriate location reference type keywords attached.

 

-I don't use vanilla capture markers anymore, because there is no way to differentiate between safe markers and markers that lock the player behind an inescapable wall or grate. That's why you weren't moved around in the two hideouts you tested.

 

-The way rape is covered now is completely dependent on Threat and Weakness:

The number of rapers that go at you at once is dependent on your threat, unless its your 'master' or main captor raping you, in which case its always just them.

Whether you are raped by just your master or by the whole den is based on your threat.

The number of times you are raped by your master is dependent by your weakness, you should only go through one scene when being raped by the whole den.

Whether or not you are equipped with devices is dependent on your threat, and what you just attempted to do.

All of this would require at least 20 more sliders and maybe 10 more toggle options in the MCM to be properly customized. So I'm not going to bother at this point, as this system is still somewhat incomplete. Once I add more tortures/punishments I'll add options to disable them.

 

-Keep in mind Threat and Weakness are going to be close to zero at the start of the game, or with a test character, mostly to make it easier for a low-level player to survive their first defeat without being to wrecked. Also, Threat and Weakness are intended to change while you are captured, so that your actions while captured can change your chances of escape, and how wrecked you end up by the time you escape.

 

-The second wind system was added entirely because I was getting enraged with my own mod. While I enjoy the damsel in distress minigame, I still want to play Skyrim sometimes dammit.

 

Everything else you described appears to be due to massive script lag, as I haven't encountered any of that in my testing.

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1 hour ago, Nymra said:

Ok, slight correction.

 

I did another test, and there is a bug with player controls when trying to run away from a dead captor, which is due to a bug fix I implemented where you would constantly sheath your weapons when fighting enemies. I'll try to get a second fix for this in a moment. I'll be away from my computer for two weeks starting tomorrow, so I won't be able to fix any bugs in that timeframe.

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2 hours ago, Nymra said:

 

New version is up, everything else seems to be working.

 

In case anyone wants to do their own testing, the only mods on my test save are this mod, all of the soft requirements listed in the description; some essential sexlab mods: Creature Framework, MNC, SOS, SL Animation Loader; the unofficial patch; LAL Alternate Start; and some armor, body, and texture mods so my eyes don't bleed while looking at the game.

 

Edit: To update, simply overwrite version 2.0 with version 2.01. I only made a dozen of scripting changes and added three new MCM sliders.

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23 hours ago, Lupine00 said:

Treating Falmer, Draugr, Bandits, Townsfolk, Orcs, Trolls, Spiders, Chaurus, Plants, Slimes, Dremora, Bears, Wolves Sabrecats and Dragons differently doesn't seem unreasonable in the long term.

9 hours ago, Code Serpent said:

That is unreasonable. It's not going to happen.

I'm going to rephrase here.

 

I'm not going to add sliders for every single race that can rape you, as that list is entirely dependent on a person's load order, and the compatibility scripting I would have to implement to get sliders for the DLC at least is simply not worth it. In fact, I don't think the effort to make a slider for every race in the base game would be worth it either. I really hate making MCMs if it hasn't been made clear already.

 

What I can do, and what I'm planning on doing, is adding some trauma multipliers and addictions for groups of races that share an ActorType keyword. The keywords available in the base game are: ActorTypeNPC, ActorTypeAnimal, ActorTypeCreature, ActorTypeDaedra, ActorTypeDragon, ActorTypeDwarven, ActorTypeUndead, ActorTypeGiant, ActorTypeTroll, ActorTypeHorse, ActorTypeCow. I will likely add trauma sliders and addictions for sex with Animals and Creatures, Daedra, Dragons, Automatons, maybe use the Vampire keyword, and maybe use the Giant and Troll keywords to get addicted to sex with humanoid creatures. Instead of creating 30 sliders that wouldn't even account for any DLC creatures, I would have 4-6 sliders that covers every creature that is added by any mod that has been properly made.

 

Additionally, I could add three more keywords: ActorTypeCreatureHumanoid, ActorTypeCreatureInsectoid, ActorTypeCreatureFurry, and add those to races via a TES5edit patch, which could easily include the DLC animals. Which would create roughly 6 trauma sliders and addictions: sex with animals and furry creatures, sex with insectoid or alien creatures, sex with humanoid creatures or corrupted humanoids (falmer/giants/trolls, maybe vampires and undead), sex with dragons, sex with daedra, and sex with robots.

 

I will definitely get around to using the vanilla ActorType keywords to add some trauma multipliers, and might get around at some point to making that patch and creature addictions.

 

Edit: A brief look in TES5edit showed that the ActorTypeGiant keyword isn't used, so a Humanoid Creature addiction won't be added unless I make that patch.

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8 minutes ago, Code Serpent said:

I'm going to rephrase here.

 

I'm not going to add sliders for every single race that can rape you, as that list is entirely dependent on a person's load order, and the compatibility scripting I would have to implement to get sliders for the DLC at least is simply not worth it. In fact, I don't think the effort to make a slider for every race in the base game would be worth it either. I really hate making MCMs if it hasn't been made clear already.

 

What I can do, and what I'm planning on doing, is adding some trauma multipliers and addictions for groups of races that share an ActorType keyword. The keywords available in the base game are: ActorTypeNPC, ActorTypeAnimal, ActorTypeCreature, ActorTypeDaedra, ActorTypeDragon, ActorTypeDwarven, ActorTypeUndead, ActorTypeGiant, ActorTypeTroll, ActorTypeHorse, ActorTypeCow. I will likely add trauma sliders and addictions for sex with Animals and Creatures, Daedra, Dragons, Automatons, maybe use the Vampire keyword, and maybe use the Giant and Troll keywords to get addicted to sex with humanoid creatures. Instead of creating 30 sliders that wouldn't even account for any DLC creatures, I would have 4-6 sliders that covers every creature that is added by any mod that has been properly made.

 

Additionally, I could add three more keywords: ActorTypeCreatureHumanoid, ActorTypeCreatureInsectoid, ActorTypeCreatureFurry, and add those to races via a TES5edit patch, which could easily include the DLC animals. Which would create roughly 6 trauma sliders and addictions: sex with animals and furry creatures, sex with insectoid or alien creatures, sex with humanoid creatures or corrupted humanoids (falmer/giants/trolls, maybe vampires and undead), sex with dragons, sex with daedra, and sex with robots.

 

I will definitely get around to using the vanilla ActorType keywords to add some trauma multipliers, and might get around at some point to making that patch and creature addictions.

 

Edit: A brief look in TES5edit showed that the ActorTypeGiant keyword isn't used, so a Humanoid Creature addiction won't be added unless I make that patch.

I am making a mod which gives bonus SLSO enjoyment for creatures of different races. I found that it was much simpler to use the animation tags than it was to try using keywords or the actor races. That gives you more control (if you want it) and is easier to code because you just check HasTag("Troll") for example instead of needing to make properties to the keywords. Just a suggestion.

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4 hours ago, Code Serpent said:

I'm not going to add sliders for every single race that can rape you, as that list is entirely dependent on a person's load order, and the compatibility scripting I would have to implement to get sliders for the DLC at least is simply not worth it. In fact, I don't think the effort to make a slider for every race in the base game would be worth it either. I really hate making MCMs if it hasn't been made clear already.

That isn't really necessary anyway, as you could support the major rapist races (which I listed), and then anything else is other, so you could still adjust your Rieklings.

Though I don't find soft dependencies quite as awful as you seem to.

 

Chaurus plant and slime rapes are a special case, as are some other creatures because the animation tags are 100% a giveaway for them. You don't need to know anything about the race or any form IDs to detect them.

 

Chaurus sex addiction is a special case, as DiD supported Chaurus addiction before (sort of). 

 

Or you could ignore the whole thing ... when I finally get to it ... probably round about July ... SLAX will handle addiction for sex with most things at various levels of granularity.

 

If you really hate MCMs, could you put them in globals with sensible names so we could just set them from the console?

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8 hours ago, Code Serpent said:

-The way rape is covered now is completely dependent on Threat and Weakness:

The number of rapers that go at you at once is dependent on your threat, unless its your 'master' or main captor raping you, in which case its always just them.

Whether you are raped by just your master or by the whole den is based on your threat.

The number of times you are raped by your master is dependent by your weakness, you should only go through one scene when being raped by the whole den.

Whether or not you are equipped with devices is dependent on your threat, and what you just attempted to do.

All of this would require at least 20 more sliders and maybe 10 more toggle options in the MCM to be properly customized. So I'm not going to bother at this point, as this system is still somewhat incomplete. Once I add more tortures/punishments I'll add options to disable them.

 

-Keep in mind Threat and Weakness are going to be close to zero at the start of the game, or with a test character, mostly to make it easier for a low-level player to survive their first defeat without being to wrecked. Also, Threat and Weakness are intended to change while you are captured, so that your actions while captured can change your chances of escape, and how wrecked you end up by the time you escape.

Thank you for the explanation. I guessed as much, but I could not "feel" a connection between the values and the events in the game (yet). I will of course explore that further).

I just dont like such hidden mechanics that I cannot control because I feel that they have a big impact on the game but cannot be customized or shut off.

 

My suggestion would be to just add an option to "freeze" those two values in place via MCM instead of allowing the Mod to change them. So people can just set the values they feel like they lead to the best experience of using the mod. This way you dont need a lot of sliders or explantions, just two sliders and a toggle option maybe? 

 

I personally think that those systems, like with SD+ and other mods are completly over the tops because they calculate a lot but do not increase immersion because the game and mod lack the means to "tell" us what is happening. Like a voiced DiD where the captors say stuff like "ah see, that wanna be warrior again" when threat level is 1 or "put a rope on her wrists first, she can kill u with her bare hands" if the threat level is high. 
Changing threat shoulde be indicated the same way, so we know what causes it ("she seems alot less dangerous covered in cum like that") etc. etc. 
THis is ofc a perfect world, I just want to express why I think personally the threat/weakness system might be the one thing that will keep me from using this mod atm :(
 

Quote

 

-The second wind system was added entirely because I was getting enraged with my own mod. While I enjoy the damsel in distress minigame, I still want to play Skyrim sometimes dammit.

I just feel that the mod description differs from how it works.
"Surrendering via the hotkey immediately captures you and any companions with you." this is in fact not the case because you have to do it twice and the reason for it escapes me.

I dont know how you felt like implementing this, but at least surrender hotkey should always be a direct surrender without anything in between. 

Did you try SM Essential Player yourself before? I use it exactly for the reason that I want to control the defeat mods via the surrender hotkey only and completly prevent them from auto trigger. This way I can sometimes just play Skyrim or avoid breaking stuff when a combat rape seems to be unsuitable in the situation I am in etc. 


 

Quote

Everything else you described appears to be due to massive script lag, as I haven't encountered any of that in my testing.

Np. I will repeat this and report back when I get logs without dumps while testing this. 

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7 hours ago, Code Serpent said:

 

!Important Compatibility Issue!If you have two mods that are both soft dependents of the same mod, but don't have that dependency installed, one or both of the mods may break. Dragonborn in Distress is particularly susceptible to this, with the number of soft dependencies it has. The most common culprit is another mod that is soft dependent on Devious Devices or SexLab Aroused. This bug can be fixed by simply installing the soft dependency. If you don't want to have the mod fully installed, just make sure the scripts are installed, and disable the plugin.

I m sorry but I seem to be unable to grasp the meaning of this... 
Especially in my current case I am quite lost on what this means for me or the playtest above. 

The only soft dependency of DiD that I dont have is MME. But I feel this is not the point of the text block somehow, hmmm. Sorry, I m really lost there
 

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5 hours ago, Lupine00 said:

I really hate making MCMs if it hasn't been made clear already.

You don't have to.  @Lupine00's suggestion for using globals will work, or DiD could read the values from a simple json file.  Apropos 2 uses a configuration file to set the wear & tear for sex with each race.  You could do something very similar for trauma, with the added benefit that it would carry over from one game to the next.  In general, players don't mind configuring a mod outside of pretty MCM sliders, especially for things they won't tweak often.  Don't make it difficult for yourself, but if you can find a simple way to allow more configuration options, a lot of players would be grateful for that.

 

@Nymra has a fair point about the surrender key.  A second wind doesn't make sense when the player chooses to surrender.  Beyond that, some players might want to turn off second wind entirely for a more hardcore experience.  If not an MCM toggle, maybe a global for that?

 

By the way, the sliders in DiD for theft are nicely done, with the options for min/max value as well as gold/weight ratio, and control over loot loss.  Nice work there.

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11 hours ago, Code Serpent said:

What I can do, and what I'm planning on doing, is adding some trauma multipliers and addictions for groups of races that share an ActorType keyword. The keywords available in the base game are: ActorTypeNPC, ActorTypeAnimal, ActorTypeCreature, ActorTypeDaedra, ActorTypeDragon, ActorTypeDwarven, ActorTypeUndead, ActorTypeGiant, ActorTypeTroll, ActorTypeHorse, ActorTypeCow. I will likely add trauma sliders and addictions for sex with Animals and Creatures, Daedra, Dragons, Automatons, maybe use the Vampire keyword, and maybe use the Giant and Troll keywords to get addicted to sex with humanoid creatures.

 

Excellent that's pretty much what I was hoping for!

 

Btw., is it possible to add a master toggle-on switch for when first installing mod that would turn on all addiction sections? Cause turning each separate addiction and then 2xEsc back to game, go back and find the mod (especially if you have many of them), and repeat 10 times or more is a bit of a PITA. Or are they all separate to make sure scripts fire correctly without them all firing at the same time?

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8 hours ago, Nymra said:

I m sorry but I seem to be unable to grasp the meaning of this... 
Especially in my current case I am quite lost on what this means for me or the playtest above. 

The only soft dependency of DiD that I dont have is MME. But I feel this is not the point of the text block somehow, hmmm. Sorry, I m really lost there
 

My understanding: for a soft dependency, papyrus tries to find a script without directly requiring the esp. This can fail gracefully if you use the right if-statements, but for some magic reasons, only the first time. Second time it will really mess up and break arbitrary stuff. So if you have two mods which soft dependency MME, one of them is broken.

 

A way to fix it is to install MME. You can leave the ESP inactive, but install the files. Then at least papyrus can find the scripts. So try that and retest.

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27 minutes ago, DayTri said:

My understanding: for a soft dependency, papyrus tries to find a script without directly requiring the esp. This can fail gracefully if you use the right if-statements, but for some magic reasons, only the first time. Second time it will really mess up and break arbitrary stuff. So if you have two mods which soft dependency MME, one of them is broken.

 

A way to fix it is to install MME. You can leave the ESP inactive, but install the files. Then at least papyrus can find the scripts. So try that and retest.

is this true for other mods too? Never experienced anything like that. 

And the Scripts just remain inactive?! :D
Sorry, just have no idea about how this stuff comes together. Most coders just talk in code when writing explanations too :)

I will do as you say for the next test, thx

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1 hour ago, Nymra said:

is this true for other mods too? Never experienced anything like that. 

And the Scripts just remain inactive?! :D
Sorry, just have no idea about how this stuff comes together. Most coders just talk in code when writing explanations too :)

I will do as you say for the next test, thx

Yes it's a general problem, not just DiD.

 

Usually mods will have some interface script that uses a variable or something, and the type of that variable is defined by a script in another mod. If the ESP isn't detected the interface won't be used so it won't bring that mod's content into your game.

 

Actually the scripts of the other mod could still be used by DiD depending on what they do, but I'm sure that in almost all cases having the scripts installed without esp will only be helpful for you. An example is Lozeak's device equipping script, that is written for other mods to use without needing any ESP

 

 

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13 hours ago, Nymra said:
21 hours ago, Code Serpent said:

 

!Important Compatibility Issue!If you have two mods that are both soft dependents of the same mod, but don't have that dependency installed, one or both of the mods may break. Dragonborn in Distress is particularly susceptible to this, with the number of soft dependencies it has. The most common culprit is another mod that is soft dependent on Devious Devices or SexLab Aroused. This bug can be fixed by simply installing the soft dependency. If you don't want to have the mod fully installed, just make sure the scripts are installed, and disable the plugin.

I m sorry but I seem to be unable to grasp the meaning of this... 
Especially in my current case I am quite lost on what this means for me or the playtest above. 

The only soft dependency of DiD that I dont have is MME. But I feel this is not the point of the text block somehow, hmmm. Sorry, I m really lost there

This is 100% only a problem if you do not implement soft-deps correctly.

 

It has been demonstrated many times that mods that exhibit the common CTD at load issues, and variations on this problem are not suffering from a mysterious problem. It is a well understood problem, and it has a well established pattern to avoid it.

 

As I've described how to resolve this cleanly, and what are the safe use conditions, many times, I won't repeat it again here. As far as I'm aware, Code Serpent knows very well what the pattern is, so it surprises me to read that DiD might cause these kinds of problems. I've found that in every case this issue can occur, it's due to a failure to follow the pattern at all, or a subtle breakage of the pattern. A good way to help stop this sort of thing is to never write an auto-start mod. There's a good reason that SexLab, Defeat, and SLD are not auto-start.

 

Even if DiD has a huge number of soft-deps, if it handles them cleanly, DiD will not cause any problems, even if other mods do silly things - as many SLIF consumer mods do. SLIF is an absolute nexus for this kind of problem because it's referenced (in an unsafe way) from many mods as a soft-dep but quite commonly not installed.

 

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13 hours ago, Lupine00 said:

As I've described how to resolve this cleanly, and what are the safe use conditions, many times, I won't repeat it again here.

This, right here, is why I avoid your posts.

 

Every single time you come here, you act entitled and demanding, and act like you know exactly how this mod should be made, without thinking or caring about the wishes or time of the mod author, or the wants of the other users, or the fact that we don't want to go through your rants to figure out what the problem is. This may be unintentional, but it still irks me, leading to things like the outburst I made some months ago.

 

I don't know how this problem works, I have not heard of a solution for it, and if you posted a solution to it before, it was probably buried under the other five paragraphs of you giving a dissertation of a bug you encountered, and so I probably skimmed over it.

 

To be clear, I do try to take your advice if it doesn't conflict with what I want this mod to be, and it doesn't give me a headache thinking of how much I would need to do to implement an idea. But, it would give me less headaches, and make me much less angry with you, if you made your posts less like rants and more like actual bug reports:

Quote

I encountered a bug! Here's what I was doing:

Spoiler

[Description of what happened]

Here's what I think is causing the problem, and how it might be solved:

Spoiler

[Description of your solution]

 

Feel free to rant inside the spoilers, and I'll reference them when I go through the bugs I need to fix, but this tells me what I might need to fix at a glance, without skimming through 5 paragraphs of you telling me how bad of a modder I am.

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On 12/17/2019 at 1:38 PM, user9120975435 said:

 

It would be great if they had their own addiction as well. I mean, the tentacle monster has it, why not animals? Orcs too... shy petite Breton girls getting addicted to big green cock would be pretty reasonable. ?

 

 

 

 

This confuses me. Why would the Dragonborn be sent to jail if she was captured by criminals? Are the criminals and local guards in cahoots or something?

It could happen.  Alot of guards aren't exactly on the up and up. It is known.  ?

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