Sexlab Survival

[Monoman1]

2 hours ago, Lupine00 said:

It's always better on your knees!

I'll take your word for it

2 hours ago, Lupine00 said:

There's going to be cock whore training?

Ahh probably nothing elaborate. Probably something simple like: beg for cock 5 times before unlocking the button in the wheel. I always find it odd that my character is an insta-slut in some mods. In my head she's just a naive, innocent girl at the outset, put in bad situations. I'd rather she develop these er.... traits more naturally or forcibly as the case may be. 

Creature fondling is guilty of this insta-slut type thing. Perhaps it should be locked until the player has had sex with animals a few times first - from mods like aroused creatures etc. 

 

Bikini licence at least encourages your character to dress slutty if she wants to do armor. 

[Reesewow]

3 hours ago, Monoman1 said:

Might come in handy alright. Not sure if it should be:

 

A) A part of the begging for cock humiliation or:

B) A sort of automatic trigger like Lupine was talking about where you just stand in front of a guy, hit the button in the wheel, play the animation, guy agrees or disagrees with varying degrees of responses. Or maybe:

C) Part of begging for cock until willpower is nil (or something like that to 'train' her). Then just automatic from there on. Where the option is initially invisible in the wheel until your 'cock whore training' is complete. 

 

Could possibly play STA "I need your cock" line while doing the automatic thing. 

 

Might be better if she got on her knees for it though. 

+1 for on the knees.

 

My vote would be for all of the above - those are three different scenarios that could cover different aspects of the mod (with C being new).   A) could be a begging or other punishment/degradation outcome, B) could be a way to satiate cum hunger, and C) is new and possibly a hook for other mods like DFC.  Nothing wrong with re-using animations where they fit IMO.

 

Quote

Ahh probably nothing elaborate. Probably something simple like: beg for cock 5 times before unlocking the button in the wheel. I always find it odd that my character is an insta-slut in some mods. In my head she's just a naive, innocent girl at the outset, put in bad situations. I'd rather she develop these er.... traits more naturally or forcibly as the case may be. 

Creature fondling is guilty of this insta-slut type thing. Perhaps it should be locked until the player has had sex with animals a few times first - from mods like aroused creatures etc. 

Some sort of SLS "levelling" system could be a lot of fun for character progression.  I know some mods try to tie in with the SL stats system, but I've always found that stats page to be a bit unclear and is never presented as a progression to the player (no player facing notifications/no indication about what affects what/no customization options).

 

My suggestion for this would be to lock a handful of insta-slut style SLS features by default, and add a Milestones/Achievements MCM menu page.  Players could then mouse-over the various unlocks to see how they can be triggered if they want, or not and let them happen organically. 

 

Probably would be a good idea to add an "unlock-all" MCM menu button as well - one issue with mods that have progression is that serial restarters probably would start to find the unlocks to be a chore, and would prefer to have all the options available immediately.

[Nazzzgul666]

1 hour ago, Monoman1 said:

Creature fondling is guilty of this insta-slut type thing. Perhaps it should be locked until the player has had sex with animals a few times first - from mods like aroused creatures etc. 

 

Bikini licence at least encourages your character to dress slutty if she wants to do armor. 

I do have the pretty much same approach in my games, but i don't see the fondling actually guilty here. It's not something that happens by accident but a decision the player makes when seen as fitting for the character. this way or another. Somebody might want to use SLS as some Unleashed light or so, i don't think it would improve anything to restrict it. If it doesn't fit, simply don't do it. I'd like some progression in other ways, although... that it's my decision is still true in almost any case.

I did reload though when i tried the kennels and my char lost her virginity by getting DPed by 2 horses. It was rape so not really slut like but i also prefer it if the degree of himlation is increasing slowly, that felt too much at once.^^ I don't really have a good suggestion how progression there would look like... maybe adding creatures over time, calculated by visits or otherwise? 
My wish for some more innocent begging options is the same, saying things is still ok, but imho it would make more sense to prefer begging over prostitution if there were more.

[donttouchmethere]

A little example how SLS effects my game:

 

Sneaking in and out of cities can have unexpected consequences ?

 

Markarth:

A guard followed me after recognizing my PC for being on the SLS wanted list.

A short sprint later I thought it is a clever idea to hide in the "Haunted House" ?

 

That guard must have seen me hiding in there and followed.

Spoiler

She didn't learned her lesson and I doubt that armbinder will help her to remind all those SLS city rules.

After all she is just a Bosmer girl searching for happiness - at all the wrong places - and not a lawyer.

 

 

But if we are in the haunted house already, why not finishing a quest!

Spoiler

See!

She is a champignon after all!

 

 

This resulted in an awkward situation.

Spoiler

Thanks, I guess?

Mr Bal, there is just a little issue with my hands...

 

 

No problem, every devious situation has it's own solution!

Spoiler

 

Excuse me Mr Logrolf, could you help me with that armbinder?

I'm supposed to kill you slowly a few times and I need your help to do that.

 

 

 

 

Well, that didn't work out as expected o.o

 

The situation didn't changed much, which is an improvement =D

 

 

Time to fight SLS with Devious Lore!

Spoiler

*struggle*

 

 

 

*more struggle*

 

 

 

Success!

That's why not everyone can be a champion of Molag Bal!

 

Revenge!

Spoiler

 

 

 

 

 

I don't want to be appear unthankful, but after all those troubles...

Spoiler

...a Mace?!? *pfff*

 

 

Hope she remembers that she gave up her weapon license to appease that SLS guard ?

 

[audhol]

1 hour ago, Reesewow said:

+1 for on the knees.

4 hours ago, Lupine00 said:

5 hours ago, Monoman1 said:

Might be better if she got on her knees for it though. 

It's always better on your knees!

Allright knees it is try this and let me know what you think. Now onto twitchy nose Sabrina.

Shootmebabyonemoretime.hkx

 

 

See no spaces!

[Monoman1]

22 minutes ago, audhol said:

Allright knees it is try this and let me know what you think.

Pretty cool. The transition to knees is good. A couple of observations: 

1. She tends to sink into the floor somewhat after moving to her knees.

2. The pointing at her mouth seems a bit slow. I wonder if it can be speed up a bit and/or point less times at her mouth.

3. Not sure about the writhing in the second half of the anim? Looks like she's about to cum on the spot

 

If you like I can PM you a version of SLS you can use to test the animation yourself. But obviously you shouldn't use it in a real game. 

[valcon767]

ok love this mod.

yes it has reached a must have status in my playing ?.

like the Sexlab Body Search mod but hated that it kept taking me to town and back causing instant toll evasion problems,

solved that for myself and though i should link to that post here as others might find it useful.

https://www.loverslab.com/topic/123275-sexlab-body-search/?do=findComment&comment=3057423

 

anyway happy gaming to all.

 

 

[Lupine00]

9 hours ago, Monoman1 said:

from mods like aroused creatures etc. 

There shouldn't be an obligation to add extra mods to get at that whole set of animal fondling functionality though.

I don't use AC, because it's another rape mod where you don't resist because ... apparently that's just how you want your game.

I do use the fondle functionality.

 

Perhaps the ever-helpful Temple of Kynareth could teach you the skill?

 

9 hours ago, Monoman1 said:

I'd rather she develop these er.... traits more naturally or forcibly as the case may be. 

The idea of being forced to learn these, rather than choosing too is more interesting to me, but in an ideal world you could choose to learn them, or be forced.

 

 

But the problem with saying it's only for special things that SLS does is that it then feels upside down in priority...

We have a special system for learning obscure animal cum drinking skills, but no system for regular sex?

 

The existing prostitution mods really don't handle that. The existing prostitution mods are deeply unsatisfying.

RP is a couple of inn-based mini-games, an army camp quest, and an assortment of random group sex scenes. Its handling of prostitution as a game-play element is non-existent, there's no device support, but it's still the best for an SLS game IMHO.

SWL is more of an animation management system, plus the lube mechanics of ME. It has progression, but no risk, no device support, and too much player control.

TDF is more about NPC management and has ... almost nothing in terms of adding interesting complications to player sex.

DCL solicitation is about getting stuck in an armbinder - pretty much just that. If you turn that off it becomes all about the other bad consequences, which are ... sadly ... purely random.

ME doesn't work with anything else, or if new ME, only really works on SE.

The sad situation is that Troubles of Heroine is the best "whore" mod around right now - and it's not even trying to be one.

It is, at least, the most fun and interesting. But it goes completely overboard on the quest side, and has no sandbox at all, and is rather obviously a "work in progress" that I suspect will never be even close to finished.

 

To get into all this stuff and then edge around solicitation like it's an elephant in a small enclosed space ... that's avoiding the elephant in the room, right?

 

 

It will be great to have all these planned things, however they end up being done, but it will also throw the inadequacy of current solicitation mods into even sharper relief.

 

It will also create a situation where SLS is the logical place to extend that functionality into regular sex, but other technical problems (like the full-up MCM) and deeper problems (like Monoman is about to quit one day, starting a huge new project the next) create obstacles to building on SLS. It's not the logical place if Monoman doesn't want to do it, and that will mean that anyone creating a new prostitution mod has to compete with that existing functionality, or get mired in complex cross-mod interactions.

 

 

While I'm hugely enthusiastic about the new ideas, whatever form they finally take, I'm also a little wary of getting my hopes up too much. To put it another way...

 

@Monoman1, what is your expectation here? What do you hope to get out of this? Are you looking forward to playing your mod with these things in? Will you really do that? Will you be happy continuing to work on this? What is the end state you're aiming for with SLS? And what future do you see for maintaining or expanding the mod beyond that? Is it likely? Or are you wrestling with an urge to walk away from all this nonsense and spend a year in a bunker playing Dwarf Fortress?

 

This takes SLS further down a road of becoming a complex monolith. Personally, I'm more in favor of something like the microservices model for Skyrim mods: mods that do small, clearly defined jobs well. A mod that does arousal, a mod that does debuffs and buffs, a mod that handles sex skill application, a mod that does outfit management, a mod that does sex-animation selection, all parts that have well-defined boundaries, modes of interaction, and can be replaced or expanded independent of each other. STA is a bit like that. It does spanking. That's all. 

[audhol]

7 hours ago, Monoman1 said:

1. She tends to sink into the floor somewhat after moving to her knees.

2. The pointing at her mouth seems a bit slow. I wonder if it can be speed up a bit and/or point less times at her mouth.

3. Not sure about the writhing in the second half of the anim? Looks like she's about to cum on the spot

1. probably should have checked it myself first ingame, (was a bit tipsy on red wine last night)

2. fair enough i'll work on that do you want shorter/quicker overall or more action, its 500 frames at the moment

3. well it was supposed to be the pc trying to turn the "client" on i.e. chaterbatesque I can turn it down if you like.

2 hours ago, Lupine00 said:

The idea of being forced to learn these, rather than choosing too is more interesting to me, but in an ideal world you could choose to learn them, or be forced.

 

 

But the problem with saying it's only for special things that SLS does is that it then feels upside down in priority...

We have a special system for learning obscure animal cum drinking skills, but no system for regular sex?

Ive thought about this too, it is a bit strange that in the game world of SLS creature sex is horrible/disgusting yet the first horse we see we can get on all fours to grope it in the middle of town, suck it off, swallow its cum and then get up and pinch the horse with no recourse only 1 point of corruption. Perhaps trying to fondle at the start the P.C. would say its to disgusting to think about whatever. That way when you beg for sex and you are told to please a dog it would be a more degrading act. Dont know how much work it would be but a slippery slope of animal corruption might be fun, perhaps at first the beg might just be "get on all fours and let that dog lick your face" or just miner acts with dogs =1 point corruption, after you reach 10 corruption you might be asked to go a bit further maybe a grope of course the payer would offer you slightly more money to "go a bit further" encouraging the p.c. to get sucked in and only when you reach around 30 corruption would you actually be able to have sex with the dog, around the same time as you start to get begging offers like " I want you to go and rub noses with that horse" 

Thats quite a long winded way of saying perhaps corruption could be  used to determine what acts the p.c. is capable of.

[Reesewow]

Personally I don't think SLS is the best place to do a massive Sexlab overhaul that gates adult progression like the vanilla leveling system gates perks.  I do think it wouldn't be a bad idea for SLS to gate some of it's own content where reasonable (and preferably in an optional manner).  If the effort is made down the road to put together a be-all-end-all Sexlab progression/solicitation mod then SLS would hopefully more easily fit into that environment.

 

3 hours ago, Lupine00 said:

There shouldn't be an obligation to add extra mods to get at that whole set of animal fondling functionality though.

I dn't use AC, because it's another rape mod where you don't resist because ... apparently that's just how you want your game.

I do use the fondle functionality.

 

I'd assume hopefully begging near a dog or horse (or a single night in the kennel) could also help unlock something like that.  It does make sense for any progression goal of SLS to be achievable with just itself or its explicitly supported mods installed.

 

 

Slightly off-topic:

 

AC does have a stamina-based resistance mechanic where the PC can break away from a rapist creature in the newer SE versions, and OsmelMC backported it to LE here (https://www.loverslab.com/files/file/10316-osmelmc-mod-tweaks/).  There are also other toggleable means of preventing a rape by outrunning/killing an approaching creature, drawing a weapon to intimidate a creature or having crouch block engagements.  NPCs even get resist mechanics based on stamina and sexlab/arousal stats. 

 

Would highly recommend those that like the mod in LE to try the backported version, it has a *lot* of extra features going for it over the LE version and I have not encounter any issues with the currently latest update.

[Lupine00]

1 hour ago, Reesewow said:

(or a single night in the kennel)

That's the obvious path of forced "skill" acquisition.

 

Slaverun also has a whole training "system" for this. Should set up the numbers so that the slaverun training is sufficient to get you a little bit hooked.

 

I guess the simple logic is that sex with animals increases your "whatever stat is it".

 

So, initially, you can't initiate sex with animals via sneak, and after a few animal rapes it becomes an option.

 

Perhaps, at a certain point of corruption, sneaking near an animal has a good chance to auto-calm it into being receptive to sex, even if previously aggressive.

 

So, you can approach an angry troll, and drop to sneak. At this point there's a chance that the troll (and your followers) calm down with respect to each other, and as long as you don't hit it, it's fine.

 

Being by yourself might make this more likely.

Approaching naked might make this a lot more likely.

Approaching naked smothered in troll fat might help too (so killing trolls helps you have sex with trolls?)

Using the other actions Monoman is thinking about might be even more effective at calming, such as dance, or ME-style present pussy (which he may not want).

 

That's a faction situation I guess. "Unfriendly" ?

 

 

I think the capabilities are in play to solve the problem of "beast taming" that he was worrying about a few months back.

[Monoman1]

5 hours ago, Lupine00 said:

I don't use AC, because it's another rape mod where you don't resist because ... apparently that's just how you want your game.

You can resist in vanilla AC by running like a mofo. Easier said than done when you're wearing a hobble dress etc I know but there are ways out. I just wish AC would not prioritize the player over Npcs. Another tweak I meant to do. 

5 hours ago, Lupine00 said:

Perhaps the ever-helpful Temple of Kynareth could teach you the skill?

Why would you want to learn in the first place? Most people would consider getting fucked by an animal to be odd. So in my mind you'd have to be pressured/forced into it via other means. (Like reesewow says: begging, kennel, cum addiction (+Encourage beastiality). 

5 hours ago, Lupine00 said:

We have a special system for learning obscure animal cum drinking skills, but no system for regular sex?

That was my point. Creature fondling is at odds with it. I know you can choose not to do it and that's a perfectly valid approach but in my head I think it shouldn't even occur to a girl fresh off the cart that she should go over there and grope that horse's balls. But I have no plans to do a massive progression system. I could just limit fondling by sexlab stats:

Animal sex count 0 - nothing

Animal sex count 5 - unlock blowjobs (it's a pity handjobs aren't a thing. They'd make a better starting point)

Animal sex count 10 - unlock vaginal

Animal sex count 20 - unlock anal.

 

Something simple like that.

People will probably end up standing around naked around animals with AC on to grind out the levels which also doesn't make a lot of sense from your characters point of view either but what can you do.

5 hours ago, Lupine00 said:

To get into all this stuff and then edge around solicitation like it's an elephant in a small enclosed space ... that's avoiding the elephant in the room, right?

Yea probably you are right. A prostitution mod done fully needs both a sandbox and a progression system plus quests. You know it's a massive undertaking. Much, much, much larger than a wheel that hooks into existing options. Plus I am not sure I'm the guy for the job. Think about it. SLS is basically a collection of scans and force greets. I've never done major quest stuff or scenes. Don't understand quest stages all that well either. I think you'd be disappointed with what I'd come up with. 

5 hours ago, Lupine00 said:

It will be great to have all these planned things, however they end up being done, but it will also throw the inadequacy of current solicitation mods into even sharper relief.

I can only do what I can do. Both within my skill set and time constraints. 

5 hours ago, Lupine00 said:

what is your expectation here? What do you hope to get out of this? Are you looking forward to playing your mod with these things in? Will you really do that? Will you be happy continuing to work on this? What is the end state you're aiming for with SLS? And what future do you see for maintaining or expanding the mod beyond that? Is it likely? Or are you wrestling with an urge to walk away from all this nonsense and spend a year in a bunker playing Dwarf Fortress?

There are no expectations. You seem to think I have some grand plan/vision. I can assure you that's not the case. I'm very much a whimsical creature. SLS is a collection of stuff I wanted to see in Skyrim. Some of them skin deep, others more elaborate as interest/time allowed. Let's face it. Skyrim modding has slowed to a glacial pace. If you want something in it you're probably going to have to do it yourself. I enjoy modding generally but I've come to realize that I spend way, way way too much time doing it. Even responding to the forum here takes up a ridiculous amount of time (though I do enjoy the banter mostly). But like I said before sometimes the only even semi-productive thing I can do is mod. It's a small window every so often. A window that's coming to an end for now so I might disappear for another bit. Development is going to be a lot slower than it used to be. 

 

Look, there still isn't anything like skyrim out there. There are no jiggles in xcom, rimworld or satisfactory (and I'm a big fan of jiggles ) so I haven't replaced it with anything either. But it's safe to say I've played it to death and need new and interesting mods to keep it alive. Mods that aren't really being made any more from what I can tell. 

5 hours ago, Lupine00 said:

This takes SLS further down a road of becoming a complex monolith.

Many things are in SLS simply because there are already existing functions that can tie-in another feature or it already has access to external mods. Case in point - proximity spanks. Should really be a part of STA but SLS already had the bikini curse monitoring what you're wearing so rather than having two functions doing 70% the same thing just pop a couple of extra lines of code into bikini curse to add it. 

I guess SLS is a bit of a nexus. 

[Monoman1]

3 hours ago, audhol said:

1. probably should have checked it myself first ingame, (was a bit tipsy on red wine last night)

I understand (all too well) 

3 hours ago, audhol said:

fair enough i'll work on that do you want shorter/quicker overall or more action,

Going to her knees is at a good pace. I just think she points a bit too slowly at her mouth. Check it out in game and see if you agree with me or not. Honestly, I'm just glad to actually have an animation to play. 

3 hours ago, audhol said:

its 500 frames at the moment

I have no idea what this means

3 hours ago, audhol said:

well it was supposed to be the pc trying to turn the "client" on i.e. chaterbatesque I can turn it down if you like.

Ah I understand now. Guess it doesn't make much sense when you use it without any context in an empty house....

[Monoman1]

49 minutes ago, Lupine00 said:

So, you can approach an angry troll, and drop to sneak.

Or *ahem* crawl. Naked. 

[Lupine00]

1 hour ago, Monoman1 said:

Or *ahem* crawl. Naked. 

Trolls love that. It's a troll thing. Shows submission. They don't bite your throat out then. They do something else...

 

Once had a broken SD+ enslavement to a Frost troll that lasted for a couple of game-weeks.

Troll does nothing but fuck.

Doesn't punish, doesn't talk, doesn't ask you to fetch unobtanium... doesn't really do much apart from occasional random wander and a lot of fucks.

You have to admire troll dedication to a single purpose.

(This) frost troll could kill anything that walked.

Killed half of Ivaarstead. Even that was only possible because some Ivaarstead man was prepared to steal me.

Curiously, villagers not aggro on the troll otherwise.

It wven killed a dragon with the help of another troll.

Eventually, it died to a tougher dragon.

I wouldn't have put up with it, but I was testing a beta, and I wanted to know if there was any escape at all.

 

There is no Wear and Tear mod that has appropriate support for such a scenario.

[audhol]

Third times a winner, fixed the disappearing knees and broken ankles changed the pointing to include a beckon and removed all the jiggyjiggyness from the ending. at the end when she holds her boobs it's supposed to mean shes drooling on them as she looks at each one.

Shootmebabyonemoretimeremastered.hkx

[Monoman1]

28 minutes ago, audhol said:

Third times a winner, fixed the disappearing knees and broken ankles changed the pointing to include a beckon and removed all the jiggyjiggyness from the ending. at the end when she holds her boobs it's supposed to mean shes drooling on them as she looks at each one.

Shootmebabyonemoretimeremastered.hkx 55.86 kB · 1 download

That's excellent. You said this is your first time animating? Impressive. 

 

Couple of things though.

1. She's still sinking into the ground a bit. 

2. This is probably something I did with the FNIS set up file but the animation loops. So when it completes she gets back up again and then gets back on her knees etc. Any ideas?

[audhol]

4 minutes ago, Monoman1 said:

Couple of things though.

1. She's still sinking into the ground a bit. 

2. This is probably something I did with the FNIS set up file but the animation loops. So when it completes she gets back up again and then gets back on her knees etc. Any ideas?

Awwww buger, I checked it in game and couldn't see any sinking, alright i'll check again. Well to check it i just rename it mt_idle and put it into my pcea folder so of course mine loops. I'm no expert on animation setup, but how are you triggering it? Is it with your mod using the wheel or from the console? Maybe it's the output I get from Blender, I will look into it. Speaking of loops i just started a begging anim that intentionally loops so the last frame is the same as the first frame, I'm sure that might be of use to someone....

Yes that was my first anim, I've been wanting to try for a while but I had dodgy eyes, Got one cataract operated last week so im on 50% just wait till the second is done!!!

I'll try to correct the sinking straight away, thanks for your patience.

[Monoman1]

8 minutes ago, audhol said:

but how are you triggering it?

Scripted using the wheel, yes. - Debug.SendAnimationEvent()

9 minutes ago, audhol said:

Yes that was my first anim, I've been wanting to try for a while but I had dodgy eyes, Got one cataract operated last week so im on 50% just wait till the second is done!!!

Lol. Even more impressive

9 minutes ago, audhol said:

I'll try to correct the sinking straight away, thanks for your patience.

Thanks. There's no rush or anything. Take your time. 

[audhol]

21 minutes ago, Monoman1 said:

There's no rush or anything. Take your time. 

Mmmmm ok when i tried it the first time i made a new save and tested it in abandoned cell with no sinking, this time i tried on an old save and yes she sinks quite a lot, also noticed heels raise  the anim regardless of setting in sexlab mcm might be an issue with my output from blender, its a script that converts the .blend into .hkx possibly not 100% because I had built a false floor in blender to see ground clipping. Nothing is ever easy huh? I will investigate.

[Monoman1]

20 minutes ago, audhol said:

o noticed heels raise  the anim regardless of setting in sexlab mcm

Sexlab is pretty old. I'm not sure what that setting actually does. It's possible that it works for HDT heels (older) but not NiO heels (newer). But that's just a guess. 

[jfraser]

6 hours ago, Monoman1 said:

Yea probably you are right. A prostitution mod done fully needs both a sandbox and a progression system plus quests. You know it's a massive undertaking. Much, much, much larger than a wheel that hooks into existing options. Plus I am not sure I'm the guy for the job. Think about it. SLS is basically a collection of scans and force greets. I've never done major quest stuff or scenes. Don't understand quest stages all that well either. I think you'd be disappointed with what I'd come up with. 

 

Heh. It's funny because all of my mods are based on quest stages. I've only manged to get a force greet to work consistently one time and I have no idea how to do scans. We're each other's mod making diametric opposites.

[Lupine00]

1 hour ago, audhol said:

also noticed heels raise  the anim regardless of setting in sexlab mcm

Idles have nothing to do with SexLab.

The heel rise is because NiOverride HH does that.

That's one of the reason some are still clinging to HDT HH.

You could unequip shoes in your script, but that might look a bit odd.

 

Or you could copy the code from SexLab to remove the offset and use that, but you can't just expect SexLab to magically do it for you because it doesn't even know you are playing that idle.

 

You'd need to play it through SexLab (e.g. add it to a SLAL pack, then trigger a sexlab scene with it) for SexLab to apply its changes.

[audhol]

7 minutes ago, Lupine00 said:

Idles have nothing to do with SexLab.

Yes of course your right, it's the nioverride thats raising the height. Still cant find out why the anim is sinking though.

[audhol]

O.K. after much testing I realised what Lupine00 said means that this anim will never work properly in bare feet, I adjusted the height multiple times and it always sinks, I wonder if its not the placement of the feet relative to the ground whatever I dont know enough to fix the problem. However all is not lost because if you are wearing the slave ballet heels from DD the height is perfect. Im sure I done that on purpose ??

I dont know if you can use an anim that exclusively requires you to be wearing devious footwear. Alternatively I could redoo it in a squatting position rather than kneeling.