What really pisses you off? please no posts about nexus lol

[Psalam]

1 minute ago, gregathit said:

We know almost to a "T" who this virus is lethal to.

Please tell me so that I can go warn them and their families. People of all ages and health conditions have succumbed to COVID. Earlier in the week a 15 year old died here in the Commonwealth of Kentucky with no known underlying conditions.

 

2 minutes ago, gregathit said:

Provide the hospitals can keep up

"Asked and answered" as the attorneys say. The hospitals CAN'T keep up now. Even if you could provide drugs and equipment there just isn't staffing (doctors and nurses). They are begging us to come out of retirement for God's sake. Many of my colleagues have retired this year to avoid the exposure.

3 minutes ago, gregathit said:

we protect those most likely to die

Nonetheless, there are always more nursing home outbreaks because, as you've already said, our mitigation efforts are not perfect.

 

4 minutes ago, gregathit said:

The survival rate is 99.97%. 

It might be now but it was 95% (and higher) at the beginning when we had no effective treatment (and people were espousing azithromycin and hydroxychloroquine). It will be again if healthcare facilities get overwhelmed, which, as I've said, is beginning to happen again now. (I say again because it happened in some localities - like New York and Italy - earlier).

 

7 minutes ago, gregathit said:

This nonsense about the new normal won't work.  American's are armed remember.

Damn! Do you mean I can kill COVID with a gun?

 I wasted all that money on medical school and time in residency and practice when things could have been done so much more simply.

 

9 minutes ago, gregathit said:

I dispute the number of covid deaths.

Again, asked and answered. I have already posted how cause of death is determined. I have also already said that it will be two years (or more) before we know the actually "excess deaths" caused by COVID. You can dispute known figures all you like but the rules haven't changed for COVID. Only figures that support your argument are valid?

 

Here's another fact. Another medical term for COVID-19 is SARS-2. That is, this is the second SARS like virus the world has seen. The first one was contained in East Asia. They did develop a system that worked and that's why pictures from that area of the world show people in masks (among other things). It isn't that there isn't a system that works, it's that people won't work the system. If you attend a 12 step meeting you'll often hear this phrase spoken in unison at the end, "it works if you work it and you die if you don't."

[gregathit]

5 minutes ago, Psalam said:

Please tell me so that I can go warn them and their families. People of all ages and health conditions have succumbed to COVID. Earlier in the week a 15 year old died here in the Commonwealth of Kentucky with no known underlying conditions.

I clearly said "almost to a T".  Go read my post again.  The likelihood for a 15 year old to die from covid is statistically less than being struck by lightening.  You know this.  You don't make decisions based on a lottery winning outlier.  Let's get real.  The statistics on the CDC website certainly identify who is at risk.  

As for your 15 year old:  https://www.wbko.com/2020/11/21/family-community-mourn-loss-of-ballard-co-teen-who-died-from-covid-19/

It is a fat kid.  Let's not mince words.  She had Leukemia for fucks sake!  How is that not an underlying condition?  Are we going to have a serious conversation or just blow smoke up one another's asses?

[Grey Cloud]

55 minutes ago, gregathit said:

The cure can't be worse than the disease. 

It is not a cure. The disease kills.

 

55 minutes ago, gregathit said:

Exactly my point. 

No it is exactly mine and Psalam's point - masks are for helping to stop the spread, not to stop one from catching the virus.

 

55 minutes ago, gregathit said:

We know almost to a "T" who this virus is lethal to.

Everyone. Some groups are more susceptible but it is potentially lethal to all.

 

55 minutes ago, gregathit said:

Let's give folks the facts and let them do their own risk assessment and move on.

People have been given the facts for the last eight months or so. People refusing to accept the facts is another issue. Do their own risk assessment? Based on what information or qualification to interpret said information? What about one's risk to others? An 'I'm alright, Jack' attitude will not stop a contagious disease.

 

55 minutes ago, gregathit said:

Business are failing.  Folks are loosing their life savings.

That is down to your government not the disease. Sure there are economic problems here in the UK (and probably Europe) in general but the government here has taken measures to alleviate these.

 

55 minutes ago, gregathit said:

Suicides, domestic abuse, murders, crimes, rioting, all these things are skyrocketing.

This, if true, is down to your society and culture not the disease. I'm not seeing anything like this in the UK and I doubt it is like this in Europe generally.

 

55 minutes ago, gregathit said:

But someone dying of cancer who has 6 months to live and gets that cut in half by getting covid should be counted separately.  Cancer was the real killer.  I think you understand comorbidities.

@Psalam has previously posted about how death certificates are filled in with regard to causes and contributing factors. You are assuming that something you read on the Internet about something which may or may not be true is applicable to the rest of the world.

 

55 minutes ago, gregathit said:

Except what is the point of slowing the spread?

It buys time for the virus to mutate into something less dangerous? It buys time to develop a vaccine? What is the point of not slowing the spread?

 

55 minutes ago, gregathit said:

Why should I not go back to normal life? 

Because you can catch the virus more than once and even if the second dose doesn't harm you, you are still capable of spreading it to others.

 

You have been flogging the same argument for eight months now yet I have yet to see a single health organisation from the WHO down to an individual state advocate anything like what you propose.

[Psalam]

16 minutes ago, gregathit said:

Let's not mince words.  She had Leukemia for fucks sake!

See below:

Spoiler

The 5-year survival rate for children with ALL has greatly increased over time and is now about 90% overall. In general, children in lower risk groups have a better outlook than those in higher risk groups. But it's important to know that even children in higher risk groups can often still be cured.

Most children with leukemia live, for fuck's sake. And the risk groups cited here don't include being fat but the cell-type of the leukemia. Most children with leukemia who get COVID will live for fuck's sake. Who gives a rat's ass if she was fat. I'm fat and so are most Americans. Should we all just be lined up and shot? 

 

About masks:

Spoiler

https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/coronavirus/in-depth/coronavirus-mask/art-20485449

 

[RitualClarity]

4 hours ago, Alkpaz said:

Man, is everyone from Texas on this site?!

A lot.. Texas is BIG in some cases as big as many countries   This site is based in the US and primarily English speaking. Makes sense Texas would be heavy on the site.

3 hours ago, Bazinga said:

Meanwhile in Asia.

But sure, physicians don't know what they are doing when deciding the cause of death was Covid 19. Of course you guys know better.

I would laugh if it wasn't so sad.

It has been reported many times that the process for judging Covid 19 cases was in no way standard across the board.  Reports of people being diagnosed with Covid dying from a auto accident or other completely unrelated instance.  This was early on. Not sure if they tightened up the reporting.  Oh, there are also reports and suspicions that China has been reporting lower numbers in order to "save face" than the actual instances.  In many ways it is political. States in the US have different degrees. I have seen many democratic states showing higher than the same type makeup etc of another state that is republican.  Fuck... now I broke the rule of this site regarding politics... See what you made me do lol

 

I was of the same mind as you @Bazinga some time ago. But, as time goes on the "hype" and such of Covid is becoming more and more apparent. The truth is out there. There are people willing to send you info on the opposite views of what you are on. Ive seen countless and can see their points. Many have some merit to a degree.

[gregathit]

15 minutes ago, Psalam said:

"Asked and answered" as the attorneys say. The hospitals CAN'T keep up now. Even if you could provide drugs and equipment there just isn't staffing (doctors and nurses). They are begging us to come out of retirement for God's sake. Many of my colleagues have retired this year to avoid the exposure.

Nonetheless, there are always more nursing home outbreaks because, as you've already said, our mitigation efforts are not perfect.

Total Bullshit.  At the peak of the crisis in New York the hospital ship that you know who sent was NEVER used.  There are NO overfilled hospitals with Covid.  I'm not saying that hospitals are not full, for fuck's sake folks were forced to wait for cancer treatments due to fears of covid overwhelming the hospitals.  Many hospitals have lost a fuck ton of money due to being forced to be empty waiting on the wave of covid folks who NEVER CAME.  This is just spouting more media bullshit that is just not true.  It is not hard to do a quick google search to discover this.  There are no temp hospitals being set up anywhere in the US.  Again, let's have a real conversation with FACTS or skip it altogether.  

 

As for folks retiring, so what.  This has nothing to do with the price of tea in china.  I have seen nothing of hospitals screaming for help.  I have seen hospitals laying folks off.

 

Nursing homes and hospitals are the places that we REALLY need to concentrate on protecting.  Effective screening of staff and family visits are what we need to concentrate on.  Doing this alone would have a HUGE impact on keeping the death rate low.

23 minutes ago, Psalam said:

It might be now but it was 95% (and higher) at the beginning when we had no effective treatment (and people were espousing azithromycin and hydroxychloroquine). It will be again if healthcare facilities get overwhelmed, which, as I've said, is beginning to happen again now. (I say again because it happened in some localities - like New York and Italy - earlier).

I disagree.  I've seen no sign or anything except cases going up.  As for HydroxyC, more and more studies are stating it works early and for prevention.  What I still don't understand is why there is a persistent effort in the US to silence doctors and others who are in the frontline treating this and making recommendations.  I just don't get this suppression of doctors who are not preaching this narrow party line.  Again, cases alone are meaningless.

28 minutes ago, Psalam said:

Damn! Do you mean I can kill COVID with a gun?

Trolling isn't productive.  I clearly was stating an armed populace can only be bullied for so long before they decide enough is enough.  God help us if we are pushed that far.

31 minutes ago, Psalam said:

Again, asked and answered. I have already posted how cause of death is determined. I have also already said that it will be two years (or more) before we know the actually "excess deaths" caused by COVID. You can dispute known figures all you like but the rules haven't changed for COVID. Only figures that support your argument are valid?

Again, pointless and trolling.  I dispute the numbers because they make ZERO distinction between death "with" covid and death "from" covid.   This is a rather large distinction.  I've stated that we won't know for quite some time back when we had a covid thread and cautioned folks to quit jumping here and there over the fake news narrative.  I have no agenda here.  All I want are the facts to be made public so that folks make their risk assessment and act accordingly.

35 minutes ago, Psalam said:

Here's another fact. Another medical term for COVID-19 is SARS-2. That is, this is the second SARS like virus the world has seen. The first one was contained in East Asia. 

And what magical bullet "contained it"?  Or was it is just not a viable enough virus and simply failed.  Virology is a fascinating field.  Not every virus succeeds.  Covid might be a radical mutation of SARS as the virus evolved into a much more successful virus.  I'm not a virologist so I don't know one way or the other.

40 minutes ago, Psalam said:

They did develop a system that worked and that's why pictures from that area of the world show people in masks (among other things). 

Debunked.  Most mask use was for pollution.  

41 minutes ago, Psalam said:

It isn't that there isn't a system that works, it's that people won't work the system. If you attend a 12 step meeting you'll often hear this phrase spoken in unison at the end, "it works if you work it and you die if you don't."

Hogwash.  Platitudes are meaningless.  If "masks" or "whatever" were such a crucial thing to solve things then the government, medical and health professionals should all be criminally prosecuted.  Where are the 12 step training programs on training folks how to wear masks properly and for what durations?  Why are masks being strapped on children?  Just watch a person wearing a mask for 10 minutes and watch how many times they fiddle with them.  Once they fiddle with them do they change the mask and wash their hands?  You were most certainly trained on mask usage.  Why is no one discussing that the virus can enter the body through the eyes?  Children with masks are a huge joke.  Watch them for 5 minutes and you'll have "things not to do with a mask" list in short order.  If this is a really serious virus, where are the serious and practical policies and training?  Instead we have platitudes and knee jerk reactions.  It serves no purpose but spreading confusion.

 

Look I want this to end as much as anyone.  I'm just tired of being told to do things "because".  I have one mom, and that is enough.

[gregathit]

20 minutes ago, Psalam said:

See below:

  Reveal hidden contents

The 5-year survival rate for children with ALL has greatly increased over time and is now about 90% overall. In general, children in lower risk groups have a better outlook than those in higher risk groups. But it's important to know that even children in higher risk groups can often still be cured.

Most children with leukemia live, for fuck's sake. And the risk groups cited here don't include being fat but the cell-type of the leukemia. Most children with leukemia who get COVID will live for fuck's sake. Who gives a rat's ass if she was fat. I'm fat and so are most Americans. Should we all just be lined up and shot? 

Diabetes is a known comorbidity.  Look at the data.  Being overweight is definitely a factor in covid deaths.

You FALSELY claimed there were no known underlying factors.  With a 5 second google search I called Bullshit on that.  

While most (70%) do live, some still do die (30%).  It depends on a lot of factors.  Do you have the autopsy?  Did it specify what subtype of AML she had?  Stop with the theatrics.

[RitualClarity]

16 minutes ago, gregathit said:

T

 

Just watch a person wearing a mask for 10 minutes and watch how many times they fiddle with them.  Once they fiddle with them do they change the mask and wash their hands?  You were most certainly trained on mask usage.  Why is no one discussing that the virus can enter the body through the eyes?  Children with masks are a huge joke.  Watch them for 5 minutes and you'll have "things not to do with a mask" list in short order. 

You forgot mentioning how long the virus can live on surfaces.... Washing hands before touching your face or food is IMO so very important but nobody seems to be pushing that.

 

Improper mask wearing, that is one thing that pisses me off. People that believe mask are required.. screaming about not wearing them but do shit like pull them down to talk to someone. Using the mask as a neck protector or the all famous peeking nose face mask procedure.  Not even getting into how many times the fuss with the mask, drop them on the ground outside along with the gloves instead of properly disposing of them.  FFS either use them properly or don't use them at all. 

[gregathit]

43 minutes ago, Grey Cloud said:

It is not a cure. The disease kills.

Debunked as pointless theatrics like most of your comments.

45 minutes ago, Grey Cloud said:

No it is exactly mine and Psalam's point - masks are for helping to stop the spread, not to stop one from catching the virus.

There is zero proof of this, but hey, pretending isn't against the law.  Knock yourself out.

46 minutes ago, Grey Cloud said:

Everyone. Some groups are more susceptible but it is potentially lethal to all.

False.  Zero back up for this.  But do waste your time looking.

47 minutes ago, Grey Cloud said:

People have been given the facts for the last eight months or so. People refusing to accept the facts is another issue. Do their own risk assessment? Based on what information or qualification to interpret said information? What about one's risk to others? An 'I'm alright, Jack' attitude will not stop a contagious disease.

More nonsensical drivel that has zero basis in science or logic.

48 minutes ago, Grey Cloud said:

That is down to your government not the disease. Sure there are economic problems here in the UK (and probably Europe) in general but the government here has taken measures to alleviate these.

This demonstrates an acute lack of economics knowledge.  Government stop gap measures have a cost that will have to be paid.  Unless you are fine with just renting everything from the government.  In the US, the governments response has been pathetic for small businesses.

51 minutes ago, Grey Cloud said:

This, if true, is down to your society and culture not the disease. I'm not seeing anything like this in the UK and I doubt it is like this in Europe generally.

Then you are not looking.  Google still works.  CDC:  https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/69/wr/mm6932a1.htm

57 minutes ago, Grey Cloud said:

@Psalam has previously posted about how death certificates are filled in with regard to causes and contributing factors. You are assuming that something you read on the Internet about something which may or may not be true is applicable to the rest of the world.

Wrong.  What is on the certificate varies from state to state and sometimes varies from county to county within some states.  There are countless examples of certs being filled out poorly.  Again, this is all irrelevant as the data totals are all being lumped together with no distinction between "with" and "from".   As I've stated countless times, this will take time and a lot of effort to filter through and sort out.

1 hour ago, Grey Cloud said:

It buys time for the virus to mutate into something less dangerous? It buys time to develop a vaccine? What is the point of not slowing the spread?

No.  We need to reach herd immunity.  That is the key.  It has always been the key.  We need to do it as quickly as possible while still keeping the deaths to a minimum.

1 hour ago, Grey Cloud said:

Because you can catch the virus more than once and even if the second dose doesn't harm you, you are still capable of spreading it to others.

False.  There have only been 4 "supposedly" documented cases of folks getting the coof twice.  All four initial cases were not confirmed and were asymptomatic and the "supposed" second time they got the coof were also asymptomatic.  If I'm wrong, provide the link and proof.

1 hour ago, Grey Cloud said:

You have been flogging the same argument for eight months now yet I have yet to see a single health organisation from the WHO down to an individual state advocate anything like what you propose.

I didn't realize logic wasn't an argument.  My bad.  As for folks pushing back on the narrative, they are legion.  The problem is Youtube, twitter and Facebook ban them.  

Netherland Doctors filing lawsuit over fake pandemic:  https://www.algora.com/Algora_blog/2020/10/17/covid-19-is-a-normal-flu-virus-lawsuit-against-the-state-of-the-netherlands

US Doctors group:  https://www.americasfrontlinedoctors.com/media/videos/ and I could go on and on.  It is funny how normal medical science involve collaboration and yet with the coof there is this toe the line or else you get silenced thing going on.  Clearly there is an agenda.  Don't know if it is a money thing or what, but something smells in Denmark (paraphrased misquote from William Shakespeare's Hamlet).  ?

 

And then you see stories like this:  https://www.cnn.com/2020/06/05/health/health-care-open-letter-protests-coronavirus-trnd/index.html

If the coof was so super serious, why was it ok for "protesting" large crowds to gather?  Something is a smelling rotten with this methinks.

[Guest]

 

[RitualClarity]

1 hour ago, Grey Cloud said:

 

 

No it is exactly mine and Psalam's point - masks are for helping to stop the spread, not to stop one from catching the virus.

 

 

I work with up to 300 people a day from the general population. The majority of them can't even wear the mask properly. Heaven forbid you try to give them guidance!  They then leave the place and toss the mask to the ground. along with any gloves not disposing of them properly.  Those that can wear a mask properly, even those I work with (of which many like the nose peek a boo method of wearing mask themselves, or the famous neck protector mask process) fidget and fuss with their mask then go about touching everything in sight without using the heavily readily available hand sanitizers at every turn.  IMO general population can't  wear mask properly. I also believe, that improper mask wearing is even more dangerous than not wearing any at all. It can lull someone into a sense of safety but in reality they are spreading it about themselves .. even those that use the mask properly.. .by removing it and disposing of it improperly.  Not to mention the lack of proper hand-washing.

 

The idea might be good on paper but in execution.. not so much. This is an reality I am confident that anyone that doubts this can go to any public location and just watch what people do.. they will soon come to the same conclusion. People are shit when it comes to compliance and proper use of PPE if they aren't from or trained in a medical background. (Which FYI I am)

 

As for spreading the virus... I work in an essential" job. (non medical) I see hundreds of people daily as well as my fellow co-workers. There have been exposure scares several times at work. One time shutting down an entire department seriously fucking up our operation. There has even been a shutdown of the store and "sanitation" of the store (foggers) from professionals.  Several tracing events. and how many actually proven to have captured the virus from working there?  ..... ZERO.... How many spread it to other workers .. (lunch with groups of people still sitting next to each other) .... ZERO... EACH CASE HAS BEEN TRACED TO A COHABITATION, FAMILY MEMBER, SEXUAL PARTNER,  ETC!  All the half assed masking wearing, dirty hands and sudo distancing (lunch tables) netted zero cases of  infection due to work environments. This might not be the case for everybody but it is my experience. Early on I was scared shitless about Covid. Now with the advancements of medical understanding and the drop of the death rate to a more "flu" like levels not so much.

 

According to some statistics my location has 20% penetration of the virus. Meaning 20% of everybody that I will meet and interact with at a store or my work has a chance to spread it. 2 in 10 ... My Public job is exposed to potentially 100's to 1000's of people weekly. Nobody at my place of work has been traced to have caught Covid from work.. let that sink into you for a moment. The nature of most of the employees at my work is face to face. Yet... we are entering yet another "shutdown" due to the infection rate. I don't see the science behind that judgement based on my experience. I can see why people are so outraged at the new lockdowns.

[Mr. Otaku]

[Grey Cloud]

1 hour ago, gregathit said:

Debunked as pointless theatrics like most of your comments.

How is it debunked? You used the word 'cure' and however you slice n dice it, it is not a cure. How is my comment theatrical? The disease kills and and you cannot say otherwise. The 'cure' as you called it does not kill.

 

1 hour ago, gregathit said:

There is zero proof of this

None that you are prepared to acknowledge, granted. If masks does not help to stop the spread of any disease then why are they worn in hospitals during operations?

 

1 hour ago, gregathit said:

False.  Zero back up for this

You yourself are constantly banging on about obese people and co-morbidities so how can you now say that there are not some groups who are more susceptible? Are you saying that there have been no deaths?

 

1 hour ago, gregathit said:

More nonsensical drivel that has zero basis in science or logic.

Are you saying that no information has been given out by the governments of any country in the last eight months? Are you saying that there are not people who are refusing to accept this information? Summarily dismissing the rest of my points without any sort of critique or refutation somehow proves you to be correct?

 

1 hour ago, gregathit said:

This demonstrates an acute lack of economics knowledge.  Government stop gap measures have a cost that will have to be paid.  Unless you are fine with just renting everything from the government.  In the US, the governments response has been pathetic for small businesses.

Why or how does it 'demonstrate an acute lack of economics knowledge (not that I claim any such knowledge, acute or otherwise)? It was a simple statement of fact. I never said that there wouldn't be a cost to be paid and in any case this is irrelevant to the fact that governments have taken measures to alleviate the financial hardships. How your government has handled it is also irrelevant to the fact that measures have been taken.

 

1 hour ago, gregathit said:

Then you are not looking.  Google still works.  CDC:  https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/69/wr/mm6932a1.htm

I wrote:

"This, if true, is down to your society and culture not the disease. I'm not seeing anything like this in the UK and I doubt it is like this in Europe generally." At what am I not looking? Your link is to information about the USA which detracts nothing from my point about your society and culture. I see nothing about these things here in the UK nor have I seen anything from the rest of Europe.

 

1 hour ago, gregathit said:

We need to reach herd immunity.  That is the key.  It has always been the key.

Then why is no health organisation advocating this?

 

 

1 hour ago, gregathit said:

We need to do it as quickly as possible while still keeping the deaths to a minimum.

And how do we keep the deaths to a minimum?

 

1 hour ago, gregathit said:

False.  There have only been 4 "supposedly" documented cases of folks getting the coof twice.

 

[Ernest Lemmingway]

24 minutes ago, Mr. Otaku said:

<snip>

Point taken. We all need to agree to just leave the subject alone.

[Mr. Otaku]

17 minutes ago, Ernest Lemmingway said:

Point taken. We all need to agree to just leave the subject alone.

Whether it should be left alone is not the point i'm trying to make, one way or another i'm fine with it. I'm just saying that there doesn't seem to be a common ground even among moderators regarding the ruling, let alone users. This is also something i previously talked about lol.

 

In other words, this "issue" needs more clarity from all aspects of the site.

[Grey Cloud]

I've had to start another post as I somehow hit a key combo which saved the first one and thus I cannot use quotes in an edit.

 

1 hour ago, gregathit said:

Wrong.  What is on the certificate varies from state to state and sometimes varies from county to county within some states.  There are countless examples of certs being filled out poorly.  Again, this is all irrelevant as the data totals are all being lumped together with no distinction between "with" and "from".   As I've stated countless times, this will take time and a lot of effort to filter through and sort out.

Not wrong. You are talking about some examples from the media about what has/is happening in the USA. I was talking about the world in general. @Psalam already mentioned a period of two years(?) in his original post on the subject.

 

1 hour ago, gregathit said:

False.  There have only been 4 "supposedly" documented cases of folks getting the coof twice.  All four initial cases were not confirmed and were asymptomatic and the "supposed" second time they got the coof were also asymptomatic.  If I'm wrong, provide the link and proof.

How can you claim what I wrote is false and then state that there have been 4 cases? You provide no source for the number or for why you can use the word supposed and put it in quote marks. You are also now using the word 'coof' as if using some childish slang word somehow belittles a lethal virus.

 

1 hour ago, gregathit said:

I didn't realize logic wasn't an argument. 

I never said that logic wasn't an argument. This is the type of stupid statement you constantly use when you have nothing to back up your assertions.

From the same blogsite you linked to:

https://www.algora.com/Algora_blog/2020/11/21/chinas-top-virologist-says-new-tests-prove-coronavirus-did-not-originate-in-wuhan-lab

So do you want your cake or are you going to eat it?

1 hour ago, gregathit said:

If the coof was so super serious, why was it ok for "protesting" large crowds to gather?  Something is a smelling rotten with this methinks.

Again this may be the case in the USA but here the police arrest such people and close down anywhere breaking the law.

 

Right, I'm off. This website is too damned slow again this weekend and I've got an appoint to get my arse kicked by the Lamenting Manifestation in Divinity: Original Sin 2. ☹️

[gregathit]

12 minutes ago, Grey Cloud said:

How is it debunked? You used the word 'cure' and however you slice n dice it, it is not a cure. How is my comment theatrical? The disease kills and and you cannot say otherwise. The 'cure' as you called it does not kill.

ROFL!!!  I used "cure" figuratively to represent lockdowns, masks and all the other nonsense.  But you knew this already and having no other argument decided to pounce on it.  Nice try.

14 minutes ago, Grey Cloud said:

None that you are prepared to acknowledge, granted. If masks does not help to stop the spread of any disease then why are they worn in hospitals during operations?

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4480558/

https://www.meehanmd.com/blog/2020-07-22-if-masks-dont-work-then-why-do-surgeons-wear-them/

https://pubs.asahq.org/anesthesiology/article/113/6/1447/9572/Is-Routine-Use-of-a-Face-Mask-Necessary-in-the

I'll let the surgeons and other medical folks answer that one.  Enjoy.

19 minutes ago, Grey Cloud said:

You yourself are constantly banging on about obese people and co-morbidities so how can you now say that there are not some groups who are more susceptible? Are you saying that there have been no deaths?

I was specifically debunking your potential to all BS.  You know this but insist on red herrings.

21 minutes ago, Grey Cloud said:

Are you saying that no information has been given out by the governments of any country in the last eight months? 

I'm specifically addressing that the governments have been wrong with damn near every decision that they have made.  Fauci saying this won't be serious, then yes it is serious.  Then saying don't wear masks, now don't wear masks.  Then yes lock down, now don't lock down.  So which is it?  Seems pretty easy to become skeptical.

26 minutes ago, Grey Cloud said:

Why or how does it 'demonstrate an acute lack of economics knowledge (not that I claim any such knowledge, acute or otherwise)? It was a simple statement of fact. I never said that there wouldn't be a cost to be paid and in any case this is irrelevant to the fact that governments have taken measures to alleviate the financial hardships. How your government has handled it is also irrelevant to the fact that measures have been taken.

Who generates wealth?  When you figure that out, you can then answer that question yourself.  Watch some Milton Friedman videos.  I promise you'll come away much more savy.

Hint, it is not government.

30 minutes ago, Grey Cloud said:

I wrote:

"This, if true, is down to your society and culture not the disease. I'm not seeing anything like this in the UK and I doubt it is like this in Europe generally." At what am I not looking? Your link is to information about the USA which detracts nothing from my point about your society and culture. I see nothing about these things here in the UK nor have I seen anything from the rest of Europe.

I linked to US because that is what I am most familiar with.

But google still works in the UK too:

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanpsy/article/PIIS2215-0366(20)30308-4/fulltext

https://www.mentalhealth.org.uk/coronavirus/pandemic-recommendations-prevention

https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/wellbeing/articles/coronavirusanddepressioninadultsgreatbritain/june2020

Some crimes fell, drug related crimes skyrocketed:  https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/crimeandjustice/bulletins/coronavirusandcrimeinenglandandwales/august2020

Be interesting to see as the UK runs its year end to March or some such.  The latest data they publish is July. 

Besides, this is again common sense.  While the gov may "help" a bit with the mom and pop shops, they damn sure aren't getting ahead.  I doubt they are even staying even.

47 minutes ago, Grey Cloud said:

Then why is no health organisation advocating this?

Because they don't have to.....?  Unless you are in one of the high risk groups, your survival rate is 99.97%.  That is higher than the vaccine rate which is at 95%:  https://www.pfizer.com/news/press-release/press-release-detail/pfizer-and-biontech-conclude-phase-3-study-covid-19-vaccine

51 minutes ago, Grey Cloud said:

And how do we keep the deaths to a minimum?

Seems pretty simple, stay away from hospitals, the deathly ill and nursing homes unless you absolutely must go there.  If you must, then take every recommended precaution and follow their guidelines.  None of this is rocket science.

[gregathit]

33 minutes ago, Grey Cloud said:

How can you claim what I wrote is false and then state that there have been 4 cases? You provide no source for the number or for why you can use the word supposed and put it in quote marks.

I keep telling you google does work:   https://www.today.com/health/covid-19-reinfection-can-you-get-coronavirus-twice-what-does-t190764

The funny part is I gave a number.  You gave............nothing.  

35 minutes ago, Grey Cloud said:

You are also now using the word 'coof' as if using some childish slang word somehow belittles a lethal virus.

Try harder.  I've used the word 'coof' for weeks now.  Yes, I'm belittling a fake pandemic.  It is a super aggressive flu.  I personally know many folks who have had it and kicked it like it was the regular flu.  It most certainly is not the boogie man it is made out to be.

37 minutes ago, Grey Cloud said:

@Psalam already mentioned a period of two years(?) in his original post on the subject.

My original post is a month old on the subject.  Go back and look.

39 minutes ago, Grey Cloud said:

This is the type of stupid statement you constantly use when you have nothing to back up your assertions.

Ah, this is where you accuse me of what you do.  Sorry, not fooled by your simple tactics.

40 minutes ago, Grey Cloud said:

Again this may be the case in the USA but here the police arrest such people and close down anywhere breaking the law.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/nov/03/protest-exemption-set-to-be-removed-from-england-lockdown-rules

Except BLM had an exemption right up to Nov 3rd.  Not sure if they came to their senses and removed it or not.  If they did, then good on you for a change.

[Psalam]

19 minutes ago, gregathit said:

I keep telling you google does work

 

So my patients tell me. Every day.

[RitualClarity]

1 hour ago, Mr. Otaku said:

yep.. the reason I mentioned a clear defined set of rules. Sometimes it is someething we don't talk about.. others times it is.  I give up. I will talk about general topics that might become "political" for some views (of course avoiding clear politics like what a certain person is doing related to recent ... event and how he is failing :P) Let the moderators sort it out. If they want the added work for fringe political conversations like Covid which can easily bring in politics and such .. then let them.

[FauxFurry]

8 hours ago, Alkpaz said:

Man, is everyone from Texas on this site?!

Texas is the second largest state which isn't a big ball of ice and it is the first port that many traveling into the nation from more southerly land masses are likely to encounter then settle in so so it stands to reason that most Americans using this site would be located there.

It would also explain why the site does not drift too far in any extreme direction, what, with Texans being the diverse bunch that they are in reality rather than the hideously outdated stereotypes that still dominate mainstream media depictions of people from the region. 

[RitualClarity]

24 minutes ago, gregathit said:

Try harder.  I've used the word 'coof' for weeks now.  Yes, I'm belittling a fake pandemic.  It is a super aggressive flu.  I personally know many folks who have had it and kicked it like it was the regular flu.  It most certainly is not the boogie man it is made out to be.

M

 

I will differ on that point... At least originally Covid shown as a possible serious pandemic. The death rate of those that did become symptomatic was extremely high .. the death rate was a serious concern. Mainly because there wasn't treatment options and the medical communities were in the dark.

 

To be clear that was the first couple of months. When they didn't fully understand the virus and hadn't had time to implement options. Now is a different story. Chances are most people you know have been exposed to the virus and have some level of immunity now.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[AKM]

3 hours ago, Alkpaz said:

 

This one is dead wrong.

[phillout]

3 hours ago, Grey Cloud said:

None that you are prepared to acknowledge, granted. If masks does not help to stop the spread of any disease then why are they worn in hospitals during operations?

 

 

For the most part, they protect the surgeon from possible blood splatter and other stuff that can come out of the body during the surgery.  They also protect the patient from a lot of bacteria that usually find their home in human mouths - which is arguably the dirtiest place in our bodies.

 

Hoping that a mask made of toilet paper can actually protect you or those around you from virus is silly beyond just silly. For a virus those small holes in the mask are like a large railroad tunnel to a mosquito. There is a zero proof that a cloth mask gives any protection to you or anybody from a virus. If anything they do - they put your own heath in danger if you wear them long enough. Wear a mask for a day - and you've got yourself a friggin' bacteria zoo living on it. 

 

Wearing something like an amulet made by local shaman would probably be just as effective as wearing a mask, and at least it would be harmless.

[FauxFurry]

9 minutes ago, phillout said:

 

For the most part, they protect the surgeon from possible blood splatter and other stuff that can come out of the body during the surgery.  They also protect the patient from a lot of bacteria that usually find their home in human mouths - which is arguably the dirtiest place in our bodies.

 

Hoping that a mask made of toilet paper can actually protect you or those around you from virus is silly beyond just silly. For a virus those small holes in the mask are like a large railroad tunnel to a mosquito. There is a zero proof that a cloth mask gives any protection to you or anybody from a virus. If anything they do - they put your own heath in danger if you wear them long enough. Wear a mask for a day - and you've got yourself a friggin' bacteria zoo living on it. 

 

Wearing something like an amulet made by local shaman would probably be just as effective as wearing a mask, and at least it would be harmless.

It would be simple enough to say that a mask is similar to a sneeze guard on a salad bar. It reduces the number of vectors of disease transmission traveling between medical personnel and patients by blocking condensed fluids and semi-solids but do little to prevent airborne pathogen transmission. That is what full on biohazard masks/suits are for.

 

If anyone were certain that they were dealing with a highly fatal plague, a simple cloth barrier (in some cases, simple handkerchiefs and towels wrapped around the face)would not be the requirement. Instead, a complete body covering and decontamination stations would become the norm.