What really pisses you off? please no posts about nexus lol

[GimmeBACON]

1 hour ago, Kendo 2 said:

I stopped using poisons when I started finding dead dead varmints; coons, skunks, occasionally coyotes.  My guess is the rats and mice were getting poisoned, wandering off to find water before they died and the varmints ate them. 

I find this shit fascinating, and it's an environmentally friendly pest control.

[KoolHndLuke]

Snakes. I fucking hate snakes. My Grandparents and mom and aunt used to live in an old house where finding rattle snakes was actually quite common. I can't even imagine.

[RitualClarity]

Anything in the wild can carry diseases. Killing in mass, that is just plain stupid .. I am in no ways an outdoors person.  I don't have the opportunities. I have some experiences from when I was young and at relatives where it was more opportunities. Farms (pig, cow etc)  and very fortunate to be able to get to know my great great grandfather on my mother's side which was a real mountain man.  Moonshiner and survivalist before that was popular.. lol.  So I understand some concepts and have a great respect for wildlife so when I hear such stupid shit it really gets me mad. 

 

[GimmeBACON]

3 minutes ago, KoolHndLuke said:

Snakes. I fucking hate snakes. My Grandparents and mom and aunt used to live in an old house where finding rattle snakes was actually quite common. I can't even imagine.

They're good eating though...

 

Plus I made me a nice belt with one before a friends dog ate it.

[27X]

8 hours ago, Ernest Lemmingway said:

Lame stream media and hypocritical politicians all screaming we need to lock everything down again "for six weeks" (like two weeks, which turned into nine months?) while they don't follow their own rules. The upside is a lot of people--including law enforcement and state attorney generals--are defying these insane restrictions and are no longer afraid. I'm still unhappy with people who don't observe the precautions (less the masks, more everything else) but the CDC, Fauci, and others are ignoring the realities of mental health and economics. So people get sick with a disease with a disease with a >99% survival rate; better that folks get sick for a little while than our economy collapses, suicides go through the roof, and we shred our civil liberties for the illusion of safety.

Just move to Texas. Been ignoring that shit for months. No apocalypse, death rate is still 1.8% with 98.2% co-morbidities, and if you have one of those morbidities, there are literal legion of people willing to help you get through.

 

Trick is to shut up and put up. Whining ain't gonna accomplish shit, and actions speak louder than twatter,.

[gregathit]

Exactly.  We Texans don't much care for folks telling us what we "have" to do.

[Guest]

Man, is everyone from Texas on this site?!

[Bazinga]

13 hours ago, Ernest Lemmingway said:

Lame stream media and hypocritical politicians all screaming we need to lock everything down again "for six weeks" (like two weeks, which turned into nine months?) while they don't follow their own rules. The upside is a lot of people--including law enforcement and state attorney generals--are defying these insane restrictions and are no longer afraid. I'm still unhappy with people who don't observe the precautions (less the masks, more everything else) but the CDC, Fauci, and others are ignoring the realities of mental health and economics. So people get sick with a disease with a disease with a >99% survival rate; better that folks get sick for a little while than our economy collapses, suicides go through the roof, and we shred our civil liberties for the illusion of safety.

Meanwhile in Asia.

Quote

Or, take another metric – deaths per million of population – from a different data set, collated from JHU, the WHO and other sources by website Real Clear Politics. It shows a similar East-West chasm.

Spain’s mortalities per million are 580.1, Italy’s 514.7, the UK’s 499.1, France’s 404.2, the US’ 260.4 and Germany’s, 94.8. Meanwhile, Japan’s are 5.4, South Korea’s 5.0, China’s 3.3, Taiwan’s 0.3 and Vietnam’s zero.

But sure, physicians don't know what they are doing when deciding the cause of death was Covid 19. Of course you guys know better.

I would laugh if it wasn't so sad.

[gregathit]

50 minutes ago, Bazinga said:

Meanwhile in Asia.

Really?  You are still going there?  The Chinese death toll is such a ridiculous lie that literally no one believes it for half a second.

Additionally that article (beyond just being stupidly nonsensical) doesn't go into the differences.  How many out of country folks go in and out of Western Countries?  Now contrast that with the Asian countries listed?  Getting into China isn't easy.  Who in the heck goes to Vietnam?  Getting into Europe or the US for that matter is stupid simple.  It also fails to look at age, weight and medical status.  Social status and culture are such a minuscule portion of this that it is laughable.  What this is a puff piece from the CCP*.  Unsurprising considering you've posted it.  I have no idea why China appeals to you so much, but hey, whatever floats your boat.

*https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asia_Times

 

Oh, did you actually look at the date of that article?  It is from May.

Also, they conveniently left out India.  Funny that.  It very much is in Asia last time I checked.  Has quite a lot of "coof" deaths, so they probably left that one out on purpose.  And India has had 97 times more deaths than China.......?  Right.  Sure.  Everyone most certainly believes that.  See this shiny piece of metal, it is gold......I pinky promise!   ???

50 minutes ago, Bazinga said:

But sure, physicians don't know what they are doing when deciding the cause of death was Covid 19. Of course you guys know better.

I would laugh if it wasn't so sad.

Are Asian doctors/hospitals getting money for "reporting" that their patient has covid?  It may seem like a tiny question but it has real meaning.  Again, think of the amount of folks that travel from through country borders.  US coroners/doctors fill out death certificates based on the form adopted by their state.  Most folks in the US don't give two shits what WHO does.  Don't know what Europe corners do and couldn't give a fuck.

 

Numbers don't lie.  We do need to find out why there is so much variation.  If we don't have the facts, then how can anyone make any intelligent decisions about this or anything else?  Unfortunately as was discussed, this will take time.   We do know a great deal more now than we did back in February.  However folks MUST stop pushing nonsense.   Keep in mind, your last argument was how piss poor the US was doing and now Europe is spiking.  Remember?  Face it, none one is "winning" at handling this.  It is an aggressive virus, sure.  But the cure must not be worse than the disease.  How can that not be obvious?

[Bazinga]

I knew that you would attack the source. ?

Here's a bunch of Wikipedia articles just for you, Greg. Cause I really really care what you think.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/COVID-19_pandemic_in_South_Korea

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/COVID-19_pandemic_in_Japan

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/COVID-19_pandemic_in_Vietnam

 

And here's a website with a ton of numbers and shit.

https://gisanddata.maps.arcgis.com/apps/opsdashboard/index.html#/bda7594740fd40299423467b48e9ecf6

 

What are they doing differently? Food for thought.

 

Quote

Are Asian doctors/hospitals getting money for "reporting" that their patient has covid?

Bullshit.

And we have all the facts. It's not my problem if you doubt them and see conspiracies everywhere.

...

Actually it is as this election clearly shows. Hope you guys won't see these secessions and that civil war that the doomsayer in me was predicting. But you might if Trump manages to steal this election.

Then again someone once told me that Democrats are pussies so what are they gonna do about it amirite? ^^

[Bazinga]

to get back on topic:

Reading this thread pisses me off.

I should stay out of here. ?

[gregathit]

4 minutes ago, Bazinga said:

Bullshit.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/factcheck/2020/04/24/fact-check-medicare-hospitals-paid-more-covid-19-patients-coronavirus/3000638001/

In the US it is fact.

I don't know how Asian countries handle it.  You don't either, so don't pretend.

 

7 minutes ago, Bazinga said:

I knew that you would attack the source. ?

Here's a bunch of Wikipedia article just for you

Obviously I would.  When has the CCP or its organizations EVER told the truth except by accident?  

Wikipedia.......?  Really?   That is your source of "truth"?  You are hurting your case.  I'm not even going to have to work for this one.

I notice you still don't have India on there.  Nor real numbers from China.  Odd.  Are you moving the goal posts?  What game are we even playing here?

11 minutes ago, Bazinga said:

What are they doing differently? Food for thought.

What makes you think they are actually doing anything different?  Could it be age, weight, foreign travel or countless other factors?  Nah, let's chalk it up something like gender studies or some such.  Ya know.........for SCIENCE! ?

 

I'm all for taking a hard look at all factors and building them into the model.  But let's keep it real and factual.  Misinformation and propaganda won't get us anywhere.

[Grey Cloud]

1 hour ago, Bazinga said:

I would laugh if it wasn't so sad.

So would I.

Thanks for the link to the Asia Times article*, it was a good review of the many and various factors which may or may not be playing a part.

 

1 hour ago, Bazinga said:

Of course you guys know better

In the last week or so I have read posts here from at least two people who have said that wearing masks does not help against catching the virus. After 8 months people still can't get it into their heads that the main purpose of masks (in conjunction with distancing) is to help stop the spread of the virus. An individual can only have one instance of the virus but can spread it to many others (who can then spread it to many others etc., etc.).

 

* I'm awarding it an extra point for the use of the word 'dirigiste'. I can't remember the last time I saw that word.

[Psalam]

3 minutes ago, Grey Cloud said:

An individual can only have one instance of the virus

While it is rare (so far) you can get it more than once:

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/health-54512034

 

In all cases I have heard of when that happened, it was shown to be a slightly different strain of the virus. For those familiar, this is not unlike what happens when they try to put flu shots together. The world's leading scientists make their best guess of which strains are likely to show up in a particular year and make an immunizations for those. If the strain is dead on the vaccine is over 90% effective. If they are close but a similar strain spreads instead, the vaccine efficacy drops significantly, usually to around 50%. And, if the strain(s) that actually go around are entirely different the vaccine has no effectiveness whatsoever. Bear this in mind when you talk about THE coronavirus vaccine.

[Psalam]

32 minutes ago, Bazinga said:

to get back on topic:

Reading this thread pisses me off.

I should stay out of here. ?

Me too! ?

[Grey Cloud]

8 minutes ago, Psalam said:

While it is rare (so far) you can get it more than once:

I meant at one any one time. ?

[gregathit]

Look at all the folks that are wearing masks to "protect from" or "prevent spreading" of the coof:

Spoiler

 

Sure doesn't look like it is working all that well.  Perhaps that could be because it doesn't?   Nah.  Course not.  That would be silly.

[Grey Cloud]

5 minutes ago, gregathit said:

Sure doesn't look like it is working all that well.  Perhaps that could be because it doesn't?   Nah.  Course not.  That would be silly.

What does the graphic prove? Case notification would be dependent on track and trace. You cannot prove a negative in that there are no comparable data for a country or countries with zero mask wearing. One might add that it has never been claimed that mask wearing stops the spread of the virus, only that it retards it. It is damage limitation not a silver bullet.

[Psalam]

4 minutes ago, Grey Cloud said:

I meant at one any one time. ?

My bad, sorry. ?

4 minutes ago, gregathit said:

Sure doesn't look like it is working all that well.

On the one hand, I wear a mask and I got COVID. On the other hand let's review a few things. The goal of public health, right now, is to mitigate the effect of COVID. The worst case scenario (and we're beginning to see it here in the US) is that so many people get seriously ill with COVID at the same time that our ability to give them sufficient treatment that they live rather than die breaks. That's when the disease, which currently has a rather low fatality rate, sees an increase in the death rate. Everything the public health experts are telling people about avoiding gatherings, washing hands and wearing masks is designed to that purpose - to decrease (not eliminate) the spread of the disease. Will those things stop the spread of COVID-19? Absolutely not. Will they slow down the spread of COVID-19. Yes, they have been shown to do so. And, whenever they have been let up, the disease has come roaring back.

 

When COVID first came to the US the CDC estimated that there would be between 700k and 1200k deaths here if no attempt at mitigation was done. According to the CDC, as of yesterday, there were 253600 deaths in the US from COVID. There is still a long way to go. Even including "silent" cases (those without sufficient symptoms to be tested and so got COVID and no one knows it) it is unlikely that as much as 10% of the US population has now had COVID. Herd immunity kicks in at around 60%. Folks, we have a long way to go with this disease yet. It is irresponsible for anyone to not take the disease seriously or to ignore those few things that will help contain the spread. I reiterate, help contain - not stop, the spread.

 

Finally, I apologize to most of the people here on LL who are not Americans. I know my post is US-centric but that's where I am and where I have a good idea about the numbers. However, my points about taking public health precautions is valid to all. I know not everyone wipes their ass after taking a shit. But, for public health reasons they should, and wash their hands too. 

 

58 minutes ago, Bazinga said:

I should stay out of here. ?

Me too (again).

[gregathit]

1 minute ago, Grey Cloud said:

What does the graphic prove? Case notification would be dependent on track and trace. You cannot prove a negative in that there are no comparable data for a country or countries with zero mask wearing. One might add that it has never been claimed that mask wearing stops the spread of the virus, only that it retards it. It is damage limitation not a silver bullet.

A claim based on fiction is nothing more than a LaLa Land fairy tale.  Which has been my point all along.  If there is REAL scientific data PROVING that masks stop or slow anything at all then show it.  What type of masks and what is the success factor rate for them?  What other factors, like eyes and ears have bearing?  How long should they be worn (for those that don't have money to burn)?  Can they be washable and what should they be washed with?  You are a smart guy, why aren't you asking these questions?  Blindly trusting crap we are spoon fed has done nothing but make this whole thing worse.  Spreading fear and ignorance won't help. 

 

Many of the Dutch people don't appear willing to wear masks.  The Swedes aren't really hip on it per what I've read or seen either.  Yet the whole of Europe is pretty much in the 150 or greater category.  

 

As for silver bullets...........you are aware werewolves are science "fiction" right?  And this illustrates my point exactly.  Lock downs are silly, masks "appear" to be optional and the vast majority of folks recover from this.  Let's pool all the effort we are wasting on lock down's, masks and there nonsense on protecting the elderly and the sick and get on with life.

[gregathit]

40 minutes ago, Psalam said:

On the one hand, I wear a mask and I got COVID.

Exactly my point.  Mask use often encourages folks to do things they should not, thinking that they are protected somehow.  Cause Magic Science.  ?

40 minutes ago, Psalam said:

Will those things stop the spread of COVID-19? Absolutely not. Will they slow down the spread of COVID-19. Yes, they have been shown to do so. And, whenever they have been let up, the disease has come roaring back.

Right.  Except what is the point of slowing the spread?  You are just drawing this thing out.  The cure can't be worse than the disease.  We know almost to a "T" who this virus is lethal to.  Protect those folks and let's have some damn COOF parties.  Sounds silly, but is it really?  Provided the hospitals can keep up and we protect those most likely to die we get this over and done with, at least until the damn thing mutates and starts to go around again (hopefully not, but who knows).  We could do it several states at a time, bring back the hospital ships and have extra beds available in the surrounding states and give it a go.  The survival rate is 99.97%.  Subtract those over 70 and it gets MUCH better.  Let's give folks the facts and let them do their own risk assessment and move on.  Hell, each state can vote on it for that matter.  We can't keep doing this open, shut, open, shut nonsense.  Unless we intend to just say fuck it and go full out communist with the government owning everything.  Business are failing.  Folks are loosing their life savings.  Suicides, domestic abuse, murders, crimes, rioting, all these things are skyrocketing.  This nonsense about the new normal won't work.  American's are armed remember.  It will get really, really bad if we keep stretching this thing out.

40 minutes ago, Psalam said:

When COVID first came to the US the CDC estimated that there would be between 700k and 1200k deaths here if no attempt at mitigation was done. According to the CDC, as of yesterday, there were 253600 deaths in the US from COVID. There is still a long way to go. Even including "silent" cases (those without sufficient symptoms to be tested and so got COVID and no one knows it) it is unlikely that as much as 10% of the US population has now had COVID. Herd immunity kicks in at around 60%. Folks, we have a long way to go with this disease yet. It is irresponsible for anyone to not take the disease seriously or to ignore those few things that will help contain the spread. I reiterate, help contain - not stop, the spread.

No.  They said 2.2 million would be dead:  https://www.cato.org/blog/how-one-model-simulated-22-million-us-deaths-covid-19

 

I dispute the number of covid deaths.  Sorry.  I've seen too many stories of miscounting motorcycle accidents and so on.  Death "with" covid does not equal death "from" covid.  Did covid cut months and perhaps a year off of folks lives.  Most certainly.  But someone dying of cancer who has 6 months to live and gets that cut in half by getting covid should be counted separately.  Cancer was the real killer.  I think you understand comorbidities.  I've seen some data from the CDC that folks had 2.4 average comorbidities.  If true, that is HUGE and also needs to be factored in.  I don't understand why it is so damn hard to give the public the actual FACTS!  

 

As for how many folks have had the coof, your 10% could be off by 30%.  Look how many folks are asymptomatic.  I got the flue really bad back in early March.  Might have been covid.  Had many of the symptoms.   Was a rough couple of days and then about a week to get back to normal.  I didn't go to the hospital.  There were no test kits back then.  I may be immune for awhile.  Why should I not go back to normal life?  I've also seen studies that having the normal flue could give you a limited immunity to the virus.  I think this whole thing has been a giant lesson in what not to do.  Hell's Bells.  We now know that putting folks on ventilators they way we did early on was just killing them.  

 

Everything we have tried has not worked.  It is time consider different approaches.  Now I'm not advocating jumping in the deep end, but dipping our toes into the wading pool is not illogical.  The number of cases is completely irrelevant if folks are not dying or flooding the hospitals.  Surely we can strike a balance to getting herd immunity and not  collapsing the economy and depriving folks of their liberty.

[Psalam]

27 minutes ago, gregathit said:

As for silver bullets

In defense of my friend @Grey Cloud the term silver, or magic, bullet goes back To Dr. Ehrlich's finding of the first treatment for syphilis. While I recognize that most people would only know the science fiction/fantasy use of the term it is used in other contexts.

 

Spoiler

A silver (or magic) bullet is a perfect drug to cure a disease with no danger of side effects. The term magic bullet was first used in this sense by the German physician and scientist Paul Ehrlich who received the Nobel Prize in Physiology or Medicine in 1908.

 

Here I am again. I really must be crazy, "doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different outcome is one definition of insanity."

[gregathit]

1 minute ago, Psalam said:

In defense of my friend @Grey Cloud the term silver, or magic, bullet goes back To Dr. Ehrlich's finding of the first treatment for syphilis. While I recognize that most people would only know the science fiction/fantasy use of the term it is used in other contexts.

No matter which definition you use, the point I was making was the same.

2 minutes ago, Psalam said:

Here I am again. I really must be crazy, "doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different outcome is one definition of insanity."

?

[Psalam]

1 minute ago, gregathit said:

We know almost to a "T" who this virus is lethal to.

Please tell me so that I can go warn them and their families. People of all ages and health conditions have succumbed to COVID. Earlier in the week a 15 year old died here in the Commonwealth of Kentucky with no known underlying conditions.

 

2 minutes ago, gregathit said:

Provide the hospitals can keep up

"Asked and answered" as the attorneys say. The hospitals CAN'T keep up now. Even if you could provide drugs and equipment there just isn't staffing (doctors and nurses). They are begging us to come out of retirement for God's sake. Many of my colleagues have retired this year to avoid the exposure.

3 minutes ago, gregathit said:

we protect those most likely to die

Nonetheless, there are always more nursing home outbreaks because, as you've already said, our mitigation efforts are not perfect.

 

4 minutes ago, gregathit said:

The survival rate is 99.97%. 

It might be now but it was 95% (and higher) at the beginning when we had no effective treatment (and people were espousing azithromycin and hydroxychloroquine). It will be again if healthcare facilities get overwhelmed, which, as I've said, is beginning to happen again now. (I say again because it happened in some localities - like New York and Italy - earlier).

 

7 minutes ago, gregathit said:

This nonsense about the new normal won't work.  American's are armed remember.

Damn! Do you mean I can kill COVID with a gun?

 I wasted all that money on medical school and time in residency and practice when things could have been done so much more simply.

 

9 minutes ago, gregathit said:

I dispute the number of covid deaths.

Again, asked and answered. I have already posted how cause of death is determined. I have also already said that it will be two years (or more) before we know the actually "excess deaths" caused by COVID. You can dispute known figures all you like but the rules haven't changed for COVID. Only figures that support your argument are valid?

 

Here's another fact. Another medical term for COVID-19 is SARS-2. That is, this is the second SARS like virus the world has seen. The first one was contained in East Asia. They did develop a system that worked and that's why pictures from that area of the world show people in masks (among other things). It isn't that there isn't a system that works, it's that people won't work the system. If you attend a 12 step meeting you'll often hear this phrase spoken in unison at the end, "it works if you work it and you die if you don't."

[gregathit]

5 minutes ago, Psalam said:

Please tell me so that I can go warn them and their families. People of all ages and health conditions have succumbed to COVID. Earlier in the week a 15 year old died here in the Commonwealth of Kentucky with no known underlying conditions.

I clearly said "almost to a T".  Go read my post again.  The likelihood for a 15 year old to die from covid is statistically less than being struck by lightening.  You know this.  You don't make decisions based on a lottery winning outlier.  Let's get real.  The statistics on the CDC website certainly identify who is at risk.  

As for your 15 year old:  https://www.wbko.com/2020/11/21/family-community-mourn-loss-of-ballard-co-teen-who-died-from-covid-19/

It is a fat kid.  Let's not mince words.  She had Leukemia for fucks sake!  How is that not an underlying condition?  Are we going to have a serious conversation or just blow smoke up one another's asses?