For the five users that still think the Nexus is your buddy.

[Kendo 2]

The Bethesda modding scene is total shit.  I sure am glad there isn't this level of ass-fuckery with DAZ and SmithMicro.

[27X]

34 minutes ago, Contessa said:

This is exactly the kind of attitude that makes it hard for anyone to sympathize with some creators. You post a mod on a free site, free hosting, free visibility yet you expect to retain 100% control over all things. You seat yourself above the "lesser" masses then balk when they don't take pity on your imagined plights. You expect everyone and everything to cater to you yet flip your lid when it doesn't and people ask why should we? 

 

Not to mention you willingly shared something online effectively giving your creation to the world. Someone somewhere will always have a mod you posted and you will never have control over it once you put it out into the ether.

 

So tell me, what exactly is the problem here beyond denying you an avenue to power trip?

 

Cool theory.

 

People get thrown out and permanently banned from McDonald's and Wal*Mart and Target and Gold's Gym all the time for being asshats. This is not exclusive to modding in the slightest. You are owed nothing. It has zero to do with fair or just or "correct", because no such animal exists, and your premise that it does is plain ol bullshit.

 

Yes once you put a mod into the world it is free to be exploited from one end of use to the other. There's three people posting on this very site using other people's mods to make hard bank on patreon so your premise this is for user protection and "the greater good" is utterly disingenuous. "I want it" doesn't guarantee anything. Go in front of closed restaurant right now and scream for their most popular option. Pretty sure what the response will be.

 

Speaking of which, restaurants rely on FoodService providers for product influx and assembly. Every one of the foodservice provider invoices contains a code to a website, and on the website in big ass letters is proviso that preserves the right to refuse service at any time, for any reason.

 

You are owed nothing.

 

Modders being asshats can be taken for carte blanche for you to be an asshat right back; if they take issue with your opinion, your choice is to either refrain from rendering that opinion or receive whatever they think your opinion warrants. In the face. You don't get your cake and eat it too.

[Contessa]

3 minutes ago, Kendo 2 said:

The Bethesda modding scene is total shit.  I sure am glad there isn't this level of ass-fuckery with DAZ and SmithMicro.

That's why they won with the paid mods "fiasco". They poisoned the well.

[Contessa]

7 minutes ago, 27X said:

 

Cool theory.

 

People get thrown out and permanently banned from McDonald's and Wal*Mart and Target and Gold's Gym all the time for being asshats. This is not exclusive to modding in the slightest. You are owed nothing. It has zero to do with fair or just or "correct", because no such animal exists, and your premise that it does is plain ol bullshit.

 

Yes once you put a mod into the world it is free to be exploited from one end of use to the other. There's three people posting on this very site using other people's mods to make hard bank on patreon so your premise this is for user protection and "the greater good" is utterly disingenuous. "I want it" doesn't guarantee anything. Go in front of closed restaurant right now and scream for their most popular option. Pretty sure what the response will be.

 

Speaking of which, restaurants rely on FoodSevice providers for product influx and assembly. Every one of the foodservice provider invoices contains a code to a website, and on the website in big ass letters is proviso that preserves the right to refuse service at any time, for any reason.

 

You are owed nothing.

 

Modders being asshats can be taken for carte blanche for you to be an asshat right back; if they take issue with your opinion, your choice is to either refrain from rendering that opinion or receive whatever they think your opinion warrants. In the face. You don't get your cake and eat it too.

I ain't trying to be a bitch here I swear. I'm just saying I've seen a lot of modders act like assholes as you put it and take their toys and go home giving everyone the finger even if they had no stake in whatever conflict sparked it. I feel for those people is all when you really boil it down. Also I edited my post above to say I do understand where you're coming from to an extent. 

 

Sometimes there are situations where users kinda deserve to have something taken from them and if I tried to deny that I'd be dishonest. This whole issue is a mess with so much beneath the surface that it could be talked about for days and still get nowhere. 

 

Honestly I do take issue that Nexus took a stance on this at all. It was never a big enough problem for them to need to take action as far as I know. Sure every once in awhile someone would lose their shit over politics or a comment or whatever and take their stuff down but it never really rocked the boat so to speak. Trust me I'm no Nexus defender and I feel this is just a power grab disguised as something they are doing "for the users". My arguments were mostly from the perspective of the user, not of the Nexus or its staff which I think are shady as hell.

[Distortedrealms]

My god, those reddit pages are just echo chamber circle jerks of people who are siding with this news. Almost like the posters are afraid to say anything against it. Its pretty creepy. 

 

Do so many people really want modding to be all hand holding with very little effort put in to it? 

[Captain Cobra]

Redditors are not human.

[Alror]

@Distortedrealms Reddit was always a vast echo chamber with bots parroting in unison trying desperately to be funny instead of human beings with feelings and individual thoughts.

It's actually astonishing how a site supposedly made for having dedicated communities for any topic is incredibly useless when compared to a web browser search excluding it.

[jinsitsu]

I'm very sad when this news came because some of my favorite creators have taken down their mods in NM just because of it and said that they'll find another platform to post their works. 

[TheOrcInHeels]

I am not gonig to hide or remove my one little mod, I don't want to punish my users, even when they are only a few.

But I will not upload new versions there.

[spoonsinger]

2 hours ago, Distortedrealms said:

Do so many people really want modding to be all hand holding with very little effort put in to it? 

 

It maybe part laziness or just lack of knowledge. But you have to ask why do people want to mod their games? Is it a fear of missing out on a perceived shared experience?  Or maybe the gaming industry as a whole isn't actually providing with what they want. Or is it just to be able to fix the buggy mess which they spent their hard earned money on at the expense of the time and patience of someone else?

[DamianGrimm]

2 hours ago, Distortedrealms said:

Do so many people really want modding to be all hand holding with very little effort put in to it? 

 

Well people often seems to be incapable of searching for the answers and solutions for themselves (as can be seen even on this site many a time) when it comes to modding or problems within a mod, so a system like this, which is just a single press of a button and everything works together without problems probably seems like the best possible system for many people. 

[Seijin8]

15 minutes ago, DamianGrimm said:

and everything works together without problems probably seems like the best possible system for many people

 

Until they add another mod that isn't in the pack, and things stop working, and then they try to "revert" without fixing the damage that has been done, and then everything breaks and we are back to the same situation as anyone else with no knowledge breaking their game.

 

The end-user is ultimately responsible for their own play experience.  There is no substitute for knowing what they are doing, and trying to outsource that knowledge is just as idiot-proof as anything else that was made to make things simpler.

 

EDIT:  Just in case it isn't clear.. that means it isn't idiot-proof at all.  Just pushing the bitching complaint wagon farther down the assembly line, not removing the issue at all.

[ballsy]

I'm just not surprised that the announcement has 99% approval on reddit at this point. It used to be maybe (who knows) 5 years ago where you could have decent discussions on there but every time a "controversial" event came up I think it exposed more readers to the unsalvageable "gimme" mentality of a lot of the people on there. Now a lot of the counteracting voices just don't post on there anymore because it's a waste of time plain and simple. 

 

I can't believe I'm saying this but at this point I'm more willing to side with Valve and Bethesda paid mods than the users you'd see on r/skyrimmods, and I have a sickening feeling that they weren't against the idea those years ago due to it being a fracturing move for the actual fabric of the community; I think a lot of these people just simply didn't want to pay.

 

It's just too predicatable at this point. Mod authors  = good until I, mod user am inconvenienced. Then mod author = bad. You can't talk to these redditors because they're all just about mememe. Their arguments are never genuinely for the good of the "community", just go off what would be best for the end user and you can predict their responses to these types of things with incredible accuracy 

[Guest]

Imagine believe you could be entitled of an opinion, and decide to remove your mods because you think the nexus decision is unfair. Imagine if in no time these mods will be on Mega, so the only real consequence is that both nexus and you (with that fat dollar/month you earn with DP payment) won't earn anything anymore from it. Now imagine someone making a list which still contains these contents that were removed by the creator, since lists allow external links to hosts like Mega too. And now imagine him patreoning the list because "hey I'm entitled of donations, it's users' choice to give me money". At the end of the day, look what happens: he's the only one who's earning from the situation, both nexus and modder had a loss. It's not a matter of money per se, it's more that I find it a paradox.

I have some doubt there's a way to oppose something like this (not the earnings per se, I'm more referring to the redistribution of whatever content whose creator decides to not redistribute, plus all the non legit contents that are already distributed with lists), except drawing a line and quit modding for good. What's on the net is on the net. So yeah it's a lost battle anyway imho. At least sticking on nexus still grants that dollar to buy a coffee and the right to report when a mod's using other people's contents etc.

This is not one of those pessimistic ways to see the future, this already happens, just take a look around. These softwares are not much different than a torrent for mods, they're going to reduce even more any kind of exposure and contact between the user and the modder, in terms of feedback, endorsement, appreciation, god it's so f--king hard to have a "thank you" back from something offered (1/20 average endorsement ratio) and I'm not surprised that some modder is not willing to offer it anymore. Understable.

 

[OH1972]

12 hours ago, Kendo 2 said:

Someone over there pointed out (rightly) that Dark0ne can't relicense things he never had the license for to begin with.  It's called 'theft'.  Uploading to a site doesn't negate creative or intellectual property rights, unless you're using their proprietary software (DAZ/Unreal/Frostbite) to create it, but even then they only have rights to the processes, not the actual content.

 

You do realize that every modder out there is operating under an implicit license from Bethesda to begin with? If Bethesda decided they want to end mods (which would be an idiotic decision) or grant exclusive license to XYZ to distribute mods, they would be very much in their right to do so. Even if you coded a mod from scratch, it's still interacting with their software and they can prohibit nonlicensed third-party software from doing that. The result would likely vary from jurisdiction to jurisdiction - in some, it would probably only be the mod user who'd be in breach of EULA, in others, you might be up for hacking their program.

 

And you're wrong to boot. Contracts with scientific publishers regularly mandate that scientists who publish their articles with them sign over the copyright to their articles to the publisher. While there are some basic rights you cannot sign over in some jurisdictions, the fundamental rights to distribute your work at least on a nonexclusive basis isn't among them.

 

So I'm afraid, there is no "theft" involved here - all the more since theft would imply the mod author is deprived of their own ability to use, distribute or sell the mod. And the overall copyright of a mod is a legally quite grey zone to begin with, all the more if assets and code by Bethesda are used.

 

Was this whole affair horribly mismanaged by Nexus? Should their communication have been better? Should there be a better way to exclude one's mods from modpacks? Certainly. But that's it.

[Zaflis]

I suppose i could point out here that there is currently no owner to mod Captured Dreams. No offense to person who created it, but that's just a fact. Can you link to its copyright or claim of ownership? No? It's probably being uploaded in social media or different language sites as we speak. The problem with that being that they can freely modify it and even change its content as much as they like. You no longer need to care about disclaimers like mods like Devious Devices would have. Imagine mod page gone, disclaimers invalid.

 

So i will say it again, modders shoot themselves in the foot by deleting their mods. There is never a reason to do that. And this is not really so much players being entitled it's mod creators thinking too highly of themselves.

[Guest]

Just sent my email to have all my stuff deleted, havent been there in a year anyways

[phillout]

7 hours ago, Nameless God said:

Except its users vs modders and modders are outnumbered 1/10

 

This is the funniest part for me. I well remember the whole drama around ModDrop and how Nexus shills, like GamerPoet on YT, were pressing this mantra to the users, "this is gonna be the end of modding, modders will stop producing mods", stuff like that. And they got all those little lemmings to scream in terror "we've got to stop this, we want our MODS!!!111". Now half a year later Nexus announces Wabbajack which is supposed to do the same, and these days they just do absolutely the same - hoard someone's mods in the list while ignoring authors demanding them to remove the mods. And users are happy apparently.

 

I'm so much enjoying this shitstorm and hurricane of hypocrisy. Not participating though.

[Rayblue]

It's mostly the FO4 modders that have their goddamn panties in a bunch, and got some other Skyrim modders roped in, including that Arthmoor now about to lose his shit. 

 

And those who make gazillions of waifu mods one will never be able to use at all.

[Darkening Demise]

Heh NexusSucks.jpeg nothing new. There's better places to go.

[Kendo 2]

2 hours ago, OH1972 said:

<snip>

YOU are full of shit.  Drafting contracts and licensing is a major part of my RL job.  I know what I'm talking about; you don't.  Sit down.

[Blue Astra]

I'm a bit out of the loop. Other than yesterday's announcement, why do people dislike Nexusmods?

[XunAmarox]

8 hours ago, jinsitsu said:

I'm very sad when this news came because some of my favorite creators have taken down their mods in NM just because of it and said that they'll find another platform to post their works. 

I'm presently in this process myself. Hiding some of my mods (after full backups) was actually genuinely heartbreaking. But it had to be done.

 

I already have users PMing me asking for some of my mods.

 

Presently, I don't really have a clue what platform I'm going to put my mods on. Presently my thoughts are:

• Create a Gumroad (essentially a Patreon that doesn't fuck artists) with $1, $5, and $10 tiers with $1 being most of my mods, $5 being the ones I personally consider decent, and $10 being the ones I consider the best. It'd also give them access to a feedback discord with channels for each of the mods they have access to.

• Create an online web store with all my mods available for individual purchase in the same $1, $5, $10 tiers but individual rather than one thing getting the whole kaboodle. It'd also give them access to a feedback discord with access just to the channels of the mods they've purchased.

• Just put them somewhere like here or ModDB that is free and largely accessible.

• Just create a torrent or mega folder with everything.

 

I haven't really decided what kinda path I want to take. But my mods are finito. Already answered the PM confirming my mod deletion.

 

On one hand I've never really liked the idea of monetizing my mods. On the other hand I'd know only the people that really want them would be getting them and they might give a bit better feedback than random "me me me" people. But ehhhh I dunno.

 

I don't know what I'm going to do just yet.

[OH1972]

2 hours ago, Kendo 2 said:

YOU are full of shit.  Drafting contracts and licensing is a major part of my RL job.  I know what I'm talking about; you don't.  Sit down.

 

Hilarious. 

 

I just had a peer-reviewed scientific publication published, requiring all co-authors to agree to certain terms and conditions. The publisher neither commissioned that content nor did they author it. They are just publishing it.

Here's how Elsevier, one of the largest scientific publishing houses, deals with copyright: 

 

In order for Elsevier to publish and disseminate research articles, we need certain publishing rights from authors, which are determined by a publishing agreement between the author and Elsevier.

For articles published open access, the authors license exclusive publishing rights to Elsevier.

For articles published under the subscription model, the authors transfer copyright to Elsevier.

Regardless of whether they choose to publish open access or subscription with Elsevier, authors have many of the same rights under our publishing agreement, which support their need to share, disseminate and maximize the impact of their research.

 

 

 

https://www.elsevier.com/about/policies/copyright

 

Here's Springer-Nature's copyright policy:

 

Spoiler

 

In general, authors will be asked to transfer the copyright of their article to the publisher (or grant the publisher exclusive publication and dissemination rights). This will ensure the widest possible protection and dissemination of information under copyright laws.

 

 

https://support.springernature.com/en/support/solutions/articles/6000080095-author-copyrights-information

 

The problem arising from this whole issue is not the least that the reader in most cases will either have to have a site license (i.e. work in an organization which has a license), have an individual subscription or pay per article - even if the research detailed in the article was funded by the public hand. The only alternative is to pester the author and ask them for a copy. The whole topic of copyright of taxpayer funded research has consequently spawned even legislation, executive action or funding agency policy in sundry countries to mandate that at least tax-payer funded research should be available in an open access format. 

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open-access_mandate

 

Whatever you are dealing with in terms of licensing, it's at best a tiny speck of the complexity of the whole issue, and you clearly know not even remotely enough to grandstand as a leading expert.

 

Sit down yourself.

 

 

[MonVert]

32 minutes ago, XunAmarox said:

mods available for individual purchase

 

You can't charge money for mods.