For the five users that still think the Nexus is your buddy.

[sickboy791]

Nexus  : everything you upload to this site belongs to the Nexus & we further process your content in to some kind of MODPACK that we will test on users and maybe you get  a Dollar or two if it works..  >agree<

 

Vortex : Do you want to install MODPACK XXXLL (WIP) 30 GB at your own risk and go premium for better downloadspeed (3mins) >clicks yes<

 

Skyrim : CTD

 

User : sorry i have a problem with Modpack XXXXXLLL....

 

Nexus : We told you it´s wip please read debuglog and ask the particular Mod Author... 

 

+autoupdate bodyslide, fnis, batchpatch, poserdatagen...tes5

[Pamatronic]

1 hour ago, MonVert said:

You can't charge money for mods.

of Course you can, the Hell are you talking about?

You wont make any friends or gain respect that way, but nothing stops you from putting your mods behind a pay wall.

[MadMansGun]

1 hour ago, XunAmarox said:

Just put them somewhere like here or ModDB that is free and largely accessible.

i went with here back in 2014 or 15

[Pamatronic]

12 minutes ago, sickboy791 said:

Nexus  : everything you upload to this site belongs to the Nexus & we further process your content in to some kind of MODPACK that we will test on users and maybe you get  a Dollar or two if it works..  >agree<

 

Vortex : Do you want to install MODPACK XXXLL (WIP) 30 GB at your own risk and go premium for better downloadspeed (3mins) >clicks yes<

 

Skyrim : CTD

 

User : sorry i have a problem with Modpack XXXXXLLL....

 

Nexus : We told you it´s wip please read debuglog and ask the particular Mod Author... 

 

+autoupdate bodyslide, fnis, batchpatch, poserdatagen...tes5

 

Yeah, pretty much that.

Modpacks wont replace actual knowledge. Those who are lazy enough to use them will manage to break their games regardless.

Only difference is that they´ll have no one to ask for help.

Sure as hell the modlist creators wont bother to give support and its not like the affected users would actually know what a debug-log even is...

[27X]

1 hour ago, MonVert said:

 

You can't charge money for mods.

 

Any content that is of your design or genesis and is yours and you can most certainly charge for it.

[Ernest Lemmingway]

Anybody paying attention knows Nexus is an absolute cesspool and has been for over a decade. The only reason I even still go there is because of the mods. And I imagine it's the same for millions of others. It's just like dealing with any company or government: keep your head down, don't trust or use anything they push, and find ways around what they're doing.

[MonVert]

18 minutes ago, Pamatronic said:

of Course you can, the Hell are you talking about?

You wont make any friends or gain respect that way, but nothing stops you from putting your mods behind a pay wall.

 

Nothing is stopping you...except violation of Bethesda's own copyright and ToS. You can't hide mods, and support,  behind a paywall.

 

Which, as we know, nobody seems to care about unless it benefits themselves.

 

Edited July 2, 2021 by MonVert

[Gukahn]

8 minutes ago, Pamatronic said:

Modpacks wont replace actual knowledge. Those who are lazy enough to use them will manage to break their games regardless.

Only difference is that they´ll have no one to ask for help.

Sure as hell the modlist creators wont bother to give support and its not like the affected users would actually know what a debug-log even is...

 

And that is one of the reasons why i won't ever use a modpack. Sure its overwhelming at the start but while modding the game further i learned how to use the tools modders provided me with, to troubleshoot my own god damn idiotic failures while smahing mods together and actually learn not to trust everything Loot tells me.. If you want to mod a game, be it skyrim or anything else, you sure as hell can at least but some of your brain cells to use.. It's not that hard?

Plus if i need support, its way easier to find out with what mod i need it..

[27X]

5 minutes ago, MonVert said:

 

Nothing is stopping you...except violation of Bethesda's own copyright and ToS. You can't hide mods, and support,  behind a paywall.

 

Which, as we know, nobody seems to care about unless it benefits themselves.

 

 

Wrong. There are two bodies that don't use Bethesda's UV or assets, putting generic gamebryo nodes on them doesn't magically turn them into bethesda assets. There are a metric shit ton of mods that don't use an ounce of bethesda's native code, and then there's that one part where bethesda was trying to pay people to make mods. Per usual you have no fucking idea what you're talking about.

[MonVert]

6 minutes ago, 27X said:

 

Wrong. There are two bodies that don't use Bethesda's UV or assets, putting generic gamebryo nodes on them doesn't magically turn them into bethesda assets. There are a metric shit ton of mods that don't use an ounce of bethesda's native code, and then there's that one part where bethesda was trying to pay people to make mods. Per usual you have no fucking idea what you're talking about.

 

Per usual, you have even less fucking idea what you are talking about.

 

Bethesda made the game, and owns all rights, so there's nothing wrong with them paying other people to make content for their own game. There's a difference between a first-party doing it and benefiting from it, as opposed to a third-party, that doesn't have the rights, benefiting from it.

 

"All uses of the Editor and any materials created using the Editor (the “New Materials”) are for Your own personal, non-commercial use solely in connection with the applicable Product, subject to the terms and conditions of this Agreement. "

 

"The Editor is and shall remain the copyrighted property of Bethesda Softworks and/or its designee(s) and You shall take no action inconsistent with such title or ownership. Except as set forth in Section 5 below, You may not cause or permit the sale or other commercial distribution or commercial exploitation (e.g., by renting, licensing, sublicensing, leasing, disseminating, uploading, downloading, transmitting, whether on a pay-per-play basis or otherwise) of any New Materials without the express prior written consent of an authorized representative of Bethesda Softworks. This includes distributing New Materials as part of any compilation You and/or other Product users may create."

 

 

Charging for mods is illegal, for the second time.

Edited July 2, 2021 by MonVert

[Guest]

To everybody. Discussion seems healthy and can progress, but keep the tones down and do not insult each other.

You are free to disagree with somebody else and you are free to mention and provide your opinion.

Just keep the tones down.

 

I am merging all the threads on the same topic on a single one.

[Grey Cloud]

1 hour ago, MonVert said:

 

You can't charge money for mods.

There's a huge difference between "you can't" and "I don't think you should"

[MonVert]

9 minutes ago, Grey Cloud said:

There's a huge difference between "you can't" and "I don't think you should"

 

People will use whatever moral grey area there is when it comes to $$$.

[Gukahn]

4 minutes ago, MonVert said:

 

People will use whatever moral grey area there is when it comes to $$$.

I don't really see what's wrong with that. Using ones own skills and resources to create mods for free is wonderfull, but trying to make some money off of it isn't wrong either. Modders use Patreon for a reason and if someone says he or she won't share their work without getting money for it.. Well it is as it is as long as they create their own resources for it or using those who get shared to get used by everyone, there is no really harm in it. Their work, their hours, their choice.

[Grey Cloud]

@sickboy791 @Pamatronic @Gukahn

 

I'm wondering how many of these modpacks do they envision having; how many mods will be in a modpack; and how many of these curators will they have.

 

User downloads and installs modpack on potato PC- everything tickety-boo.

User sets Bethini to Ultra settings and installs cracker-jack ENB as seen on Asian website - Dear Mr Nexus, my game is broken.

How long will one of these curators dedicate to fixing one user's problems? How long will the troubleshooting drag on for when, e.g., the curator is in Europe and the user in North America?

Edited July 2, 2021 by Grey Cloud

[Grey Cloud]

14 minutes ago, MonVert said:

 

People will use whatever moral grey area there is when it comes to $$$.

There is no 'grey area' here. What part of, e.g., FNIS or an animation made in 3D Max belongs to Bethesda?

Edited July 2, 2021 by Grey Cloud

[DoctaSax]

On the issue of modpacks and who has to do tech support, I do hear that quite a few WJ list creators provide excellent support, and overall the WJ community discourages people from taking their issues to the original authors. It's what I hear, do with that what you will. Presumably, the same could apply to Nexus's own collection system, and the ones that are best curated will be the most popular.

 

I think the fear of or disdain for such systems, as well as the money issue, sort of draw attention away from the main issue, which is Nexus stopping modders from deleting their own stuff, including outdated versions and what not. I can't help feeling a bit of schadenfreude here, given a long history of eg Arthmoor and the like proclaiming Nexus is much more respectful of modders' IP than LL. It's petty, but I'm only human.

[Gukahn]

That's another thing @Grey Cloud I don't think they will dedicate more then a few minutes if even that..

Let's say they bring 5 packs for 5 different taste. Horror, immersion ect..

And every pack gets 100 people who uses them.. You couldn't PAY me enough to even consider supporting one of these packs. Narrowing down every possible problem and the sole reason the problem won't get fixed is that user A doesn't tell you that he or she uses a mod alongside the pack, they are too embarrassed to tell. Nobody stops smashing mods in their game, ever. The difference is, if i do all the work myself i at least can find the problematic mod myself or get solid advice from others, with such a pack? Dunno.. Might be Mod 52, could be mod 189

Edited July 2, 2021 by Gukahn

[Tlam99]

A way to produce scrap.

 

"....just got my drivers license; and guess what !

From my grandma a key, the key of brandnew 450hp Ferrari ?

 

Replace words accordingly

 

[Pamatronic]

54 minutes ago, MonVert said:

 

Per usual, you have even less fucking idea what you are talking about.

 

Bethesda made the game, and owns all rights, so there's nothing wrong with them paying other people to make content for their own game. There's a difference between a first-party doing it and benefiting from it, as opposed to a third-party, that doesn't have the rights, benefiting from it.

 

"All uses of the Editor and any materials created using the Editor (the “New Materials”) are for Your own personal, non-commercial use solely in connection with the applicable Product, subject to the terms and conditions of this Agreement. "

 

"The Editor is and shall remain the copyrighted property of Bethesda Softworks and/or its designee(s) and You shall take no action inconsistent with such title or ownership. Except as set forth in Section 5 below, You may not cause or permit the sale or other commercial distribution or commercial exploitation (e.g., by renting, licensing, sublicensing, leasing, disseminating, uploading, downloading, transmitting, whether on a pay-per-play basis or otherwise) of any New Materials without the express prior written consent of an authorized representative of Bethesda Softworks. This includes distributing New Materials as part of any compilation You and/or other Product users may create."

 

 

Charging for mods is illegal, for the second time.

 

Just for the sake of argument, lets assume this is perfectly true and legally binding.

 

Then what about a texture replacer mod for example? It only contains folders and a bunch of dds files.

It has no relation to Bethesda or any of its tools, it just so happens that it has some sort of impct on the game if you drop it into your game folder.

Are you seriously gonna tell me that Bethesda can do anything to prevent me from cashing in on that?

No, i can upload it wherever i want and can charge for it however much i want.

 

Which means:

Charging for mods is illegal  perfectly legal , for the 46537th time.

 

Also, just because Bethesda writes something in any agreement doesn't mean is has any legal Power.

Companies do this all the Time.

They could also write "The Editor is and shall remain the copyrighted property of Bethesda and by using it you are transferring all right to your firstborn child to us"

Don´t think this will go well in court if they decide to press that.

 

And by the same logic, this would also mean that adobe holds all right to content created with any of their tools, which i somehow doubt is true.

[pinky6225]

21 minutes ago, Pamatronic said:

 

Just for the sake of argument, lets assume this is perfectly true and legally binding.

 

Then what about a texture replacer mod for example? It only contains folders and a bunch of dds files.

It has no relation to Bethesda or any of its tools, it just so happens that it has some sort of impct on the game if you drop it into your game folder.

Are you seriously gonna tell me that Bethesda can do anything to prevent me from cashing in on that?

No, i can upload it wherever i want and can charge for it however much i want.

 

Which means:

Charging for mods is illegal  perfectly legal , for the 46537th time.

 

Also, just because Bethesda writes something in any agreement doesn't mean is has any legal Power.

Companies do this all the Time.

They could also write "The Editor is and shall remain the copyrighted property of Bethesda and by using it you are transferring all right to your firstborn child to us"

Don´t think this will go well in court if they decide to press that.

 

And by the same logic, this would also mean that adobe holds all right to content created with any of their tools, which i somehow doubt is true.

 

Admittedly i'm not a copyright expert but if it was a replacer i'd think you'd have used the existing texture to make the new texture so as your using there asset to make something new you could probably argue it

 

If it was a completely new texture or something like FNIS which is a tool you run to get something else to work i think you'd struggle to say that belongs to beth

 

The quoted EULA i'd think would only apply to stuff made with the CK itself

 

Enforcement itself would prolly be the issue and whether its worth the effort, copyright claims between large multi nationals drag on for ages and thats when they are easily served legal papers, tracking someone down who might be anywhere in the world with different laws that do/do not apply etc sounds like it would be way more effort

 

I seem to recall reading the skyrim multiplayer mod pulling down quite a few K on its patreon yet the only ones that got pissed at them were the SKSE team, beth hadn't tried to stop them

Edited July 2, 2021 by pinky6225

[Kendo 2]

3 hours ago, OH1972 said:

Hilarious. 

As is peer review.

 

EDIT: I just realized you're Liberal; ie an insane person not worthy of a legitimate response.

Edited July 2, 2021 by Kendo 2

[MonVert]

1 hour ago, Grey Cloud said:

There is no 'grey area' here. What part of, e.g., FNIS or an animation made in 3D Max belongs to Bethesda?

 

What part of FNIS was made in the CK?

 

33 minutes ago, Pamatronic said:

And by the same logic, this would also mean that adobe holds all right to content created with any of their tools, which i somehow doubt is true.

 

Adobe isn't selling games with modkits, and maybe go read their EULA if you want to be pedantic about it.

 

33 minutes ago, Pamatronic said:

Are you seriously gonna tell me that Bethesda can do anything to prevent me from cashing in on that?

 

Are you telling me that you are going to willfully break the law? Just because you can do something doesn't mean you should; everything has consequences.

Edited July 2, 2021 by MonVert

[Nebuchadnezzer2]

Spoiler

2 hours ago, sickboy791 said:

Nexus  : everything you upload to this site belongs to the Nexus & we further process your content in to some kind of MODPACK that we will test on users and maybe you get  a Dollar or two if it works..  >agree<

 

Vortex : Do you want to install MODPACK XXXLL (WIP) 30 GB at your own risk and go premium for better downloadspeed (3mins) >clicks yes<

 

Skyrim : CTD

 

User : sorry i have a problem with Modpack XXXXXLLL....

 

Nexus : We told you it´s wip please read debuglog and ask the particular Mod Author... 

 

+autoupdate bodyslide, fnis, batchpatch, poserdatagen...tes5

 

2 hours ago, Pamatronic said:

 

Yeah, pretty much that.

Modpacks wont replace actual knowledge. Those who are lazy enough to use them will manage to break their games regardless.

Only difference is that they´ll have no one to ask for help.

Sure as hell the modlist creators wont bother to give support and its not like the affected users would actually know what a debug-log even is...

 

1 hour ago, Grey Cloud said:

I'm wondering how many of these modpacks do they envision having; how many mods will be in a modpack; and how many of these curators will they have.

 

User downloads and installs modpack on potato PC- everything tickety-boo.

User sets Bethini to Ultra settings and installs cracker-jack ENB as seen on Asian website - Dear Mr Nexus, my game is broken.

How long will one of these curators dedicate to fixing one user's problems? How long will the troubleshooting drag on for when, e.g., the curator is in Europe and the user in North America?

 

As Doc points out:

59 minutes ago, DoctaSax said:

On the issue of modpacks and who has to do tech support, I do hear that quite a few WJ list creators provide excellent support, and overall the WJ community discourages people from taking their issues to the original authors. It's what I hear, do with that what you will. Presumably, the same could apply to Nexus's own collection system, and the ones that are best curated will be the most popular.

It'll almost certainly be on the modpack/Collection curator and any helpers of theirs.

There's also less "but the mod page said X" BS too, from what I gather, 'cause the Collection points you at specific files to get, not just 'download X from Y' and then PEBKAC kicks in and they download the wrong shit based on something mentioned on the mod page.

Spoiler

40 minutes ago, Pamatronic said:

 

Just for the sake of argument, lets assume this is perfectly true and legally binding.

 

Then what about a texture replacer mod for example? It only contains folders and a bunch of dds files.

It has no relation to Bethesda or any of its tools, it just so happens that it has some sort of impct on the game if you drop it into your game folder.

Are you seriously gonna tell me that Bethesda can do anything to prevent me from cashing in on that?

No, i can upload it wherever i want and can charge for it however much i want.

 

Which means:

Charging for mods is illegal  perfectly legal , for the 46537th time.

 

Also, just because Bethesda writes something in any agreement doesn't mean is has any legal Power.

Companies do this all the Time.

They could also write "The Editor is and shall remain the copyrighted property of Bethesda and by using it you are transferring all right to your firstborn child to us"

Don´t think this will go well in court if they decide to press that.

 

And by the same logic, this would also mean that adobe holds all right to content created with any of their tools, which i somehow doubt is true.

 

22 minutes ago, pinky6225 said:

 

Admittedly i'm not a copyright expert but if it was a replacer i'd think you'd have used the existing texture to make the new texture so as your using there asset to make something new you could probably argue it

 

If it was a completely new texture or something like FNIS which is a tool you run to get something else to work i think you'd struggle to say that belongs to beth

 

The quoted EULA i'd think would only apply to stuff made with the CK itself

 

Enforcement itself would prolly be the issue and whether its worth the effort, copyright claims between large multi nationals drag on for ages and thats when they are easily served legal papers, tracking someone down who might be anywhere in the world with different laws that do/do not apply etc sounds like it would be way more effort

 

I seem to recall reading the skyrim multiplayer mod pulling down quite a few K on its patreon yet the only ones that got pissed at them were the SKSE team, beth hadn't tried to stop them

 

As for this, 'standard ToS' is usually "no modding of our product, or distribution of such modifications", often with a "no tools" section too.

Does it stop people doing it?
No.
But if the dev/publisher catches wind, they're legally obligated to C&D you/them, and pursue them legally if necessary, or they can lose their copyright/trademark (I forget which it is I'm thinking of, failure to defend your IP/product).

That normally extends to the entire game/system as a whole, including things as "basic" as swapping *.dds files in a folder.

 

More "lenient" or "mod-friendly" devs/publishers usually have a more detailed/ambigious ToS, but amounts to "Derivative works/alterations allowed, but 'paywalling'/charging money for such works will result in legal steps being taken".

Obviously oversimplifying/paraphrasing, but you get the idea.

 

And in particular, creating/altering game-specific files, like Bethesda's plugins or meshes, is probably gunna come under that ToS, no matter how you made it, and even if it does not, they'd likely throw the book at you/C&D you anyway, and find some legal justification later, maybe settle out of court if it got far enough, but getting that far can be terrifying/expensive if you aren't well prepared for it.

[Grey Cloud]

34 minutes ago, Kendo 2 said:

I just realized you're Liberal; ie an insane person not worthy of a legitimate response.

And do you realise how stupid a comment like that makes you sound to virtually every European or other non-American who sees it?