Wartimes - a daughter's tale LE (Alternate start scenario)

[kapibar]

11 minutes ago, Monoman1 said:

Hmm. I dunno. Losing favour to random number generation could be super frustrating. I know its probably meant to be.

Yeah, and I think this is what this mod desperately needs - a bit of unpredictability. I'm a meticulous type. When I coordinate timing, I can go without loosing a single favour for days. This is how "mechanical" the gameplay is. The only "random" thing is father being drunk, other than that - everything is painfully predictable and managable.
 

14 minutes ago, Monoman1 said:

If favor loss us the goal then I think id prefer father to set next to impossible tasks for you to fail. 

Humiliation is the goal, favour lottery is just a bonus. Plus a little bit of randomness. Basically all relations with father are when he wants something. He never approaches PC to just talk or tease her. He's more like an officer in the army: "I give you an order to wear this. Now move it, soldier"! He's also extremely predictable after some time. Limited amount of interactions is to blame here, but basically after being impregnated and turned into a milk maid, he has nothing to offer. All burned out. There's inspection event and clothing quest, other than that - nothing new. It's just an endless cycle of food -> fuck -> milk -> wait -> food -> fuck -> milk -> sleep. And this goes on for 30 days straight. If you add child sex check, could very well be much longer. This loop leaves too much free time and on the other hand doesn't give enough freedom to just go places and do shit. And this is probably the longest segment of WT. That's why I believe something should be added to the gameplay. And since fucking and DD's are pretty much covered, it leaves only dialogues, or some quests from father. But the last would require a lot of work, for example being forced to become a crafting slave. You'd have to calculate how much crafting stuff is required, create dialogues, conditions and whatnot. Dialogues are simple and more unpredictable. Also underused in most slavery mods.

[kapibar]

5 minutes ago, Balgin said:

Speaking of next to impossible tasks.... did you disable the Amren Family Sword quest? it seems to be unavailable with this mod running. I was looking forwards to seeing how hopelessly difficult it would be (something to give our girl the impression that she'd better just go home to her father and give up on any idea of being competent).

I don't think this is WT's fault. It's actually LAL that's fucking shit up in the Whiterun area. Something to do with it being the first hold, that is supposed to be locked on vanilla start. Anyway, both Amren's sword and Ysolda's quest (which is btw. "canary in a coal mine") are unavailable when the game is started in or near Whiterun. Try to leave the city, fast travel anywhere else, then return, but do not FT to Whiterun directly. This should help.

Edited May 20, 2022 by kapibar

[Monoman1]

11 minutes ago, kapibar said:

Yeah, and I think this is what this mod desperately needs - a bit of unpredictability. I'm a meticulous type. When I coordinate timing, I can go without loosing a single favour for days. This is how "mechanical" the gameplay is. The only "random" thing is father being drunk, other than that - everything is painfully predictable and managable.
 

Humiliation is the goal, favour lottery is just a bonus. Plus a little bit of randomness. Basically all relations with father are when he wants something. He never approaches PC to just talk or tease her. He's more like an officer in the army: "I give you an order to wear this. Now move it, soldier"! He's also extremely predictable after some time. Limited amount of interactions is to blame here, but basically after being impregnated and turned into a milk maid, he has nothing to offer. All burned out. There's inspection event and clothing quest, other than that - nothing new. It's just an endless cycle of food -> fuck -> milk -> wait -> food -> fuck -> milk -> sleep. And this goes on for 30 days straight. If you add child sex check, could very well be much longer. This loop leaves too much free time and on the other hand doesn't give enough freedom to just go places and do shit. And this is probably the longest segment of WT. That's why I believe something should be added to the gameplay. And since fucking and DD's are pretty much covered, it leaves only dialogues, or some quests from father. But the last would require a lot of work, for example being forced to become a crafting slave. You'd have to calculate how much crafting stuff is required, create dialogues, conditions and whatnot. Dialogues are simple and more unpredictable. Also underused in most slavery mods.

Well afraid thats the problem with content. Eventually it runs out... ?

I can possibly add random amount of times onto tasks: +/- 1 hour if it helps unpredictability. 

personally I like being able to leave for some time and return. Let's face it. There'll never be enough content to make staying in the house constantly interesting unless I hire a team of developers. And even then you'll still run out of content eventually.

[kapibar]

5 minutes ago, Monoman1 said:

Well afraid thats the problem with content. Eventually it runs out... ?

Sure, but dialogues have two advantages: they add some randomness and it should be quite easy to introduce them and mix'em up. It's always something new, so... just think about it .

[Herowynne]

2 hours ago, kapibar said:

Anyway, both Amren's sword and Ysolda's quest (which is btw. "canary in a coal mine") are unavailable when the game is started in or near Whiterun. Try to leave the city, fast travel anywhere else, then return, but do not FT to Whiterun directly. This should help.

This is good advice. Also I think these are favor quests and you can only accept one of those at a time.

[audhol]

7 hours ago, Monoman1 said:

I wouldn't worry too much. You're not going to be able to satisfy everyone.

Lol well I can try, currently got more versions on the go than fast and furious. However I would like to get it done and move onto converting the outfit to LE, as you said more items makes better gameplay I could easily add a collar garter and gloves, that would make it an 8 piece outfit.

[lcewolf]

@Monoman1

 

I was wondering if at some point you will change Father outfit for something like vanilla rich clothes?

I always do it manually but maybe at some point you could change that?

 

Just a suggestion.

Edited May 20, 2022 by lcewolf

[Monoman1]

34 minutes ago, lcewolf said:

@Monoman1

 

I was wondering if at some point you will change Father outfit for something like vanilla rich clothes?

I always do it manually but maybe at some point you could change that?

 

Just a suggestion.

Maybe he should get increasingly better armor and weapon to make him more difficult to kill? Ala slaverun slavers. 

Probably look a bit silly lounging around the house in armor though.

Edited May 20, 2022 by Monoman1

[kapibar]

18 minutes ago, Monoman1 said:

Probably look a bit silly lounging around the house in armor though.

Absolutely ridiculous. He could have jarl's robes though.

Edited May 20, 2022 by kapibar

[Monoman1]

https://www.loverslab.com/topic/149018-wartimes-a-daughters-tale-le-alternate-start-scenario/?do=findComment&comment=3756218

 

We need to go back to the structure of the beginning/endings. Until I get that down in chart form I can't even begin to make changes to them. 

 

I like shiny stuff in the middle as much (if not more than) you guys but I think shiny stuff in the middle can be added after a new version is released...

 

So people seem happy enough with changing the early responses dictating whether you get a hard or an easy start. I still need ideas/clarification on how mother can further be used as leverage against the player so father can make you do all these horrible things...

[audhol]

Just now, Monoman1 said:

I still need ideas/clarification on how mother can further be used as leverage against the player so father can make you do all these horrible things...

Don't you think roleplaying is incentive enough? You do what ever he wants because you want to keep your mother alive.

 

 

 

Also

 

V 38769 (2 more than rocky and fast/furious combined)

Spoiler

 

[Zebip00]

Fantastic to see this mod being continually worked on. Just to throw my 2cents in with mother but what if you received notes from her periodically from the courier, simply telling the PC to be strong ETC.

 

Also great idea with the extended family, what if older brother had run off to join the forsworn then if he kills father the PC becomes an indentured servant at  Druadach Redoubt

[Mushikisai]

An idea that the father acquired more property by offering his daughter to the jarl, which also explains the expansion of the house (an expansion of those cyclical tasks)

In addition, although armour is not quite suitable for wearing indoors, perhaps Father's clothes could be turned into more ornate vanilla cloths as the amount of money the PC earned for him(maybe by helding partys or something) increases?

Edited May 20, 2022 by dayangvvv

[Mushikisai]

Btw, what variables control the progress of the outfit phase?  Always found it slow to progress in getting a new outfit. level

[Mushikisai]

1 hour ago, audhol said:

Don't you think roleplaying is incentive enough? You do what ever he wants because you want to keep your mother alive.

 

 

 

Also

 

V 38769 (2 more than rocky and fast/furious combined)

  Hide contents

 

Although the futa tattooed big dick looks a bit odd, the tattoos are really attractive!

[Kryona]

7 hours ago, Monoman1 said:

https://www.loverslab.com/topic/149018-wartimes-a-daughters-tale-le-alternate-start-scenario/?do=findComment&comment=3756218

 

We need to go back to the structure of the beginning/endings. Until I get that down in chart form I can't even begin to make changes to them. 

 

I like shiny stuff in the middle as much (if not more than) you guys but I think shiny stuff in the middle can be added after a new version is released...

 

So people seem happy enough with changing the early responses dictating whether you get a hard or an easy start. I still need ideas/clarification on how mother can further be used as leverage against the player so father can make you do all these horrible things...

 

I thinkt the sister could be revealed at any point after a certain submission and/or depravity threshold is met, maybe its simply one of the Forcegreets where Father casually tells the PC about her, where she is and to fetch her. Or just that he has heard rumors and that PC should investigate, maybe PC gets the day(s?) off for that like with the piercing tasks. It would make sense because at a high submission score the PC is submissive and broken in enough that she wouldn't freak out and disobey and simply do as she's told. IMO it wouldnt even have to be after the PC is pregnant because you can still easily justify the PC being the one who gets knocked up instead of the sister with a million of reasonable explanations. (Father likes fucking sister more so the PC's only use is as a breeder/PC being the one who gets knocked up is more humiliating for the PC and so on)

 

As for ideas for mother, buffs. Maybe raise PCs health a little while Mother is at home, explanation being that the PC feels stronger when mother is around and she gives her strength. Would be especially useful and suck to lose with the inequality debuffs from SLS. Maybe she tells the player about a secret stash where, throughout the players childhood, she saved up and stored some useful items for the player that she hid from father right before she passes out. So the Player knows there is something waiting for them when mother is back because in order to get that stash Mother has to be back at home. And when mother is back, player gets told where the stash is (probably somewhere around Whiterun.) As for what's in there you could put some handy useful items into it like YPS makeup, a tiny bit of gold, soap, maybe a dagger, devious device keys, spellbooks, maybe the item(s) needed for the black sacrament ending? whatever you prefer. Should probably be a good reward though for doing all that work to get mother back.

 

As for leverage, maybe just add a little backstory that makes it obvious the PC needs the mother for her sanity. Like a little summary of the players life before the mod, how it was just her and mother for a long time (or how the father was always abusive and never cared much for the PC if hes in the picture early on), how the PC is dependant on the mother because she cared for her for so long, you could tie that in with the HP buff. Would also explain the harsh debuffs quite well because the PC falls into depression and turns insane after her mother dies. I dont think you can achieve that much gameplay wise in such short time to make the player care about the mother, i feel like people simply have to roleplay this part. Maybe if the "pregame" of the mod before mother gets taken away was a bit longer you could maybe add a few affectionate scenes between the mother and the PC to show their relationship. So father can then torment the PC with it ("I know how much you love your useless mother, you'll better do x or who knows what might happen to her")

 

as for using mother as a threat, maybe father loves (or pretends to at least in front of the PC) mother and regulary tells the PC that if she fails to keep mother alive, he will make her life absolute hell (even more so than it already is.) And when mother does die, cue all the harsh debuffs, maybe the father regulary locks the PC into the cellar (i don't want to lose you aswell so you stay right here where i can watch you). Alternatively, threaten PC to frame her for mothers murder like someone already said. 

Edited May 21, 2022 by Kryona

[gothom]

2 hours ago, Monoman1 said:

https://www.loverslab.com/topic/149018-wartimes-a-daughters-tale-le-alternate-start-scenario/?do=findComment&comment=3756218

 

We need to go back to the structure of the beginning/endings. Until I get that down in chart form I can't even begin to make changes to them. 

 

I like shiny stuff in the middle as much (if not more than) you guys but I think shiny stuff in the middle can be added after a new version is released...

 

So people seem happy enough with changing the early responses dictating whether you get a hard or an easy start. I still need ideas/clarification on how mother can further be used as leverage against the player so father can make you do all these horrible things...

Oh my friend... you simply had but to ask...

 

May I DM you so that these might be surprises for future players?

[Monoman1]

I had an idea last night for the whole mother thing. At the start Father makes the veiled threat "ill be your sole guardian if your mother dies" blah blah. 

If/when mother dies then any event that creates an apology event takes away some of the freedoms you've been afforded up to then:

- The door is unlocked later in the day and locked earlier at night

- Father will no longer buy licences for you

- not allowed to take time off

- Add 100 debt per day

- player storage is locked

- player weapons taken

- player armor taken

- fitted with a collar that allows you x distance from home.

- not allowed to carry gold

 

Dunno if they should have an order or be random. 

 

Maybe you can use massive amounts of favour to regain them ~50 favour

 

9 hours ago, audhol said:

Don't you think roleplaying is incentive enough

Nope I don't

Tats look less like stickers alright ?  

I'd be a bit concerned they've lost some fidelity in the process though? (Can't win!)

6 hours ago, gothom said:

Oh my friend... you simply had but to ask...

 

May I DM you so that these might be surprises for future players?

I'd prefer if it was discussed  openly. It needs to be right the first time as its highly unlikely to ever change after.

 

[leakim]

21 hours ago, Monoman1 said:

https://www.loverslab.com/topic/149018-wartimes-a-daughters-tale-le-alternate-start-scenario/?do=findComment&comment=3756218

 

We need to go back to the structure of the beginning/endings. Until I get that down in chart form I can't even begin to make changes to them. 

 

I like shiny stuff in the middle as much (if not more than) you guys but I think shiny stuff in the middle can be added after a new version is released...

 

So people seem happy enough with changing the early responses dictating whether you get a hard or an easy start. I still need ideas/clarification on how mother can further be used as leverage against the player so father can make you do all these horrible things...

 

So I believe there are two different places in the story where such leverage needs to be exerted, before and after mother's return?

• After mother's return:
  • Given that mother is literally sitting helpless and limbless in a cage, I do not think that direct threats of violence against mother should be out of the question. Such threats could be presented:
    • During favor loss/apologies
    • During "standard" punishments
    • During force greets - perhaps random replacements to the otherwise boring "I need to check up on you" dialog
  • There could be consequences for duty failure. You already implemented various punishments such as beatings, etc. and indeed also a more "endgame"-like punishment such as being thrown out. Perhaps a different punishment could be father physically harming mother instead of you being thrown out when favor drops too low. Happen too many times? Well, he could kill her. Still low favor? Well at this point he could throw you out. This also plays well "gameplay"-wise because then getting mother back would effectively protect you from getting immediately thrown out because he would instead punish mother.
  • Also, I will just re-iterate something I said earlier: I do not believe mother should actually be cured when paying father for the the 10000 septims cure. It could be a "trap" instead, but a trap that is required for you to get the best possible ending (getting rid of father without bounty in every hold). This also makes it so you do not need to consider what should happen once mother is cured, which I think is hard leap logically. For example the idea to get rid of father could come from mother, but first after you've "paid for her cure".
• Before mother's return:
  • Frankly, it's very hard to think of something for this because it very quickly becomes non-tangible when mother is not present. I would see if I could get her returned to the home as a more natural part of the story instead of by paying a big amount. For example it could happen based on your depravity/submission (logically this could be because father think he has broken you enough to not rebel, so it is "safe" to return her).
  • This would also add an interesting gameplay-point: If you act in a way to keep your submission/depravity very low for a long time, it becomes almost impossible to pay for mother's expenses (because the cost increases with time), leading her to die, which means you are naturally lead to acting depravated if you want to see mother's return.
  • This would also present a more natural way of explaining why she is suddenly limbless. Previously you just paid 2000 septims, and yet she returns completely helpless. Why? Perhaps mother's return could instead be explained as her treatment failed and now father needs much more gold (10000) in order to send her to the best treatment center in Cyrodill.
    • But this is a trap. Father has no intention of curing mother when he receive those 10000 septims from the PC. Instead he uses those money for himself/his house, turning it into a "sex dungeon" for the player (or maybe he spends it differently, who knows?). But, after this has happend it will be possible through dialog with the mother to get a plan to kill/get rid of father without getting a bounty in every hold, which would be the only "GOOD END".
  • Perhaps using this idea would mean you would have to get rid of the "instant-breeder" feature that is performed upon mother's return, since it might happen earlier in the mod. This could instead happen if mother dies (either by you not paying initially before her return or by father killing her). It could also happen as one of the "random" punishment that could happen if mother dies in the idea you just presented above (and I will quote below this section).

These ideas would probably all have the pre-requisite that mother should not hate you after her return. Otherwise they do not work that well.

 

I might have said something very similar in a previous post, so apologies if you've already read and rejected them as non-feasible for whatever reason.

 

12 hours ago, Monoman1 said:

I had an idea last night for the whole mother thing. At the start Father makes the veiled threat "ill be your sole guardian if your mother dies" blah blah. 

If/when mother dies then any event that creates an apology event takes away some of the freedoms you've been afforded up to then:

- The door is unlocked later in the day and locked earlier at night

- Father will no longer buy licences for you

- not allowed to take time off

- Add 100 debt per day

- player storage is locked

- player weapons taken

- player armor taken

- fitted with a collar that allows you x distance from home.

- not allowed to carry gold

 

Dunno if they should have an order or be random. 

 

I really like this as an idea, although I am afraid you might be spending time on content most people would not see. It feels very appropriate though because I feel like mother dying really should be a sort of a "BAD END (with story)" scenario, and this fits that bill perfectly.

 

On 5/18/2022 at 8:47 AM, Monoman1 said:

IIRC I found it easier to pull better information from FM. 

+ I found on long games that BF was creating a lot of script instances when loading into an area. Though I doubt FM is innocent in that area either. 

 

Thank you very much for the info! In that case I will not panic so much about needing to switch to FM3.

 

On 5/18/2022 at 6:28 PM, Monoman1 said:

?‍♂️

 

All I am saying is that I am feeling almost bad only being able to support you with $1.

 

Don't get the wrong idea. I'm not interested in any benefits from this. 

 

You're simply making something very unique, not just in Skyrim modding, but just in general. So I really badly want to see you succeed.

Edited May 21, 2022 by leakim

[audhol]

38 minutes ago, Monoman1 said:

Nope I don't

Fair enough. I like your idea of much harsher penalties for an apology event after her death, not game ending but a big incentive to keep her alive.

 

39 minutes ago, Monoman1 said:

I'd be a bit concerned they've lost some fidelity in the process though? (Can't win!)

Yep theyre definately less defined, Maybe I'll package up 2 versions hd and lowfi then you can choose or the user could depending on what they prefer (please let me have made a save before applying thoose filters?)

[kapibar]

47 minutes ago, Monoman1 said:

I had an idea last night for the whole mother thing. At the start Father makes the veiled threat "ill be your sole guardian if your mother dies" blah blah. 

If/when mother dies then any event that creates an apology event takes away some of the freedoms you've been afforded up to then:

- The door is unlocked later in the day and locked earlier at night

- Father will no longer buy licences for you

- not allowed to take time off

- Add 100 debt per day

- player storage is locked

- player weapons taken

- player armor taken

- fitted with a collar that allows you x distance from home.

- not allowed to carry gold

 

Dunno if they should have an order or be random.

 

In order. But they should also be somehow available to those who do the actual RP.

 

48 minutes ago, Monoman1 said:

Nope I don't

 

Now I'm quite certain that you're a fucking engineer IRL. And probably German. ?

[audhol]

Spoiler

 

[kapibar]

@audhol hm. It's starting to grow on me this whole project.

[audhol]

14 minutes ago, kapibar said:

It's starting to grow on me this whole project.

 

 

[kapibar]

11 hours ago, Monoman1 said:

 I still need ideas/clarification on how mother can further be used as leverage against the player so father can make you do all these horrible things...

I have an idea. You could include some verbal violence. Instead of calling PC "daughter", father could verbally abuse her as a sort of "punishment" - calling her things like "motherless bitch", "stray whore", "orphan slut", "corpse's spawn"...

Another "punishing" mechanics could be a mental breakdown - when not in combat, PC randomly goes into "bereavement depression" (bleedout animation) as the time skips 1-2 hours. This would decrease predictability of WT and have some consequences for the gameplay.