Wartimes - a daughter's tale LE (Alternate start scenario)

[Kryona]

7 hours ago, Monoman1 said:

https://www.loverslab.com/topic/149018-wartimes-a-daughters-tale-le-alternate-start-scenario/?do=findComment&comment=3756218

 

We need to go back to the structure of the beginning/endings. Until I get that down in chart form I can't even begin to make changes to them. 

 

I like shiny stuff in the middle as much (if not more than) you guys but I think shiny stuff in the middle can be added after a new version is released...

 

So people seem happy enough with changing the early responses dictating whether you get a hard or an easy start. I still need ideas/clarification on how mother can further be used as leverage against the player so father can make you do all these horrible things...

 

I thinkt the sister could be revealed at any point after a certain submission and/or depravity threshold is met, maybe its simply one of the Forcegreets where Father casually tells the PC about her, where she is and to fetch her. Or just that he has heard rumors and that PC should investigate, maybe PC gets the day(s?) off for that like with the piercing tasks. It would make sense because at a high submission score the PC is submissive and broken in enough that she wouldn't freak out and disobey and simply do as she's told. IMO it wouldnt even have to be after the PC is pregnant because you can still easily justify the PC being the one who gets knocked up instead of the sister with a million of reasonable explanations. (Father likes fucking sister more so the PC's only use is as a breeder/PC being the one who gets knocked up is more humiliating for the PC and so on)

 

As for ideas for mother, buffs. Maybe raise PCs health a little while Mother is at home, explanation being that the PC feels stronger when mother is around and she gives her strength. Would be especially useful and suck to lose with the inequality debuffs from SLS. Maybe she tells the player about a secret stash where, throughout the players childhood, she saved up and stored some useful items for the player that she hid from father right before she passes out. So the Player knows there is something waiting for them when mother is back because in order to get that stash Mother has to be back at home. And when mother is back, player gets told where the stash is (probably somewhere around Whiterun.) As for what's in there you could put some handy useful items into it like YPS makeup, a tiny bit of gold, soap, maybe a dagger, devious device keys, spellbooks, maybe the item(s) needed for the black sacrament ending? whatever you prefer. Should probably be a good reward though for doing all that work to get mother back.

 

As for leverage, maybe just add a little backstory that makes it obvious the PC needs the mother for her sanity. Like a little summary of the players life before the mod, how it was just her and mother for a long time (or how the father was always abusive and never cared much for the PC if hes in the picture early on), how the PC is dependant on the mother because she cared for her for so long, you could tie that in with the HP buff. Would also explain the harsh debuffs quite well because the PC falls into depression and turns insane after her mother dies. I dont think you can achieve that much gameplay wise in such short time to make the player care about the mother, i feel like people simply have to roleplay this part. Maybe if the "pregame" of the mod before mother gets taken away was a bit longer you could maybe add a few affectionate scenes between the mother and the PC to show their relationship. So father can then torment the PC with it ("I know how much you love your useless mother, you'll better do x or who knows what might happen to her")

 

as for using mother as a threat, maybe father loves (or pretends to at least in front of the PC) mother and regulary tells the PC that if she fails to keep mother alive, he will make her life absolute hell (even more so than it already is.) And when mother does die, cue all the harsh debuffs, maybe the father regulary locks the PC into the cellar (i don't want to lose you aswell so you stay right here where i can watch you). Alternatively, threaten PC to frame her for mothers murder like someone already said. 

Edited May 21, 2022 by Kryona

[gothom]

2 hours ago, Monoman1 said:

https://www.loverslab.com/topic/149018-wartimes-a-daughters-tale-le-alternate-start-scenario/?do=findComment&comment=3756218

 

We need to go back to the structure of the beginning/endings. Until I get that down in chart form I can't even begin to make changes to them. 

 

I like shiny stuff in the middle as much (if not more than) you guys but I think shiny stuff in the middle can be added after a new version is released...

 

So people seem happy enough with changing the early responses dictating whether you get a hard or an easy start. I still need ideas/clarification on how mother can further be used as leverage against the player so father can make you do all these horrible things...

Oh my friend... you simply had but to ask...

 

May I DM you so that these might be surprises for future players?

[Monoman1]

I had an idea last night for the whole mother thing. At the start Father makes the veiled threat "ill be your sole guardian if your mother dies" blah blah. 

If/when mother dies then any event that creates an apology event takes away some of the freedoms you've been afforded up to then:

- The door is unlocked later in the day and locked earlier at night

- Father will no longer buy licences for you

- not allowed to take time off

- Add 100 debt per day

- player storage is locked

- player weapons taken

- player armor taken

- fitted with a collar that allows you x distance from home.

- not allowed to carry gold

 

Dunno if they should have an order or be random. 

 

Maybe you can use massive amounts of favour to regain them ~50 favour

 

9 hours ago, audhol said:

Don't you think roleplaying is incentive enough

Nope I don't

Tats look less like stickers alright ?  

I'd be a bit concerned they've lost some fidelity in the process though? (Can't win!)

6 hours ago, gothom said:

Oh my friend... you simply had but to ask...

 

May I DM you so that these might be surprises for future players?

I'd prefer if it was discussed  openly. It needs to be right the first time as its highly unlikely to ever change after.

 

[leakim]

21 hours ago, Monoman1 said:

https://www.loverslab.com/topic/149018-wartimes-a-daughters-tale-le-alternate-start-scenario/?do=findComment&comment=3756218

 

We need to go back to the structure of the beginning/endings. Until I get that down in chart form I can't even begin to make changes to them. 

 

I like shiny stuff in the middle as much (if not more than) you guys but I think shiny stuff in the middle can be added after a new version is released...

 

So people seem happy enough with changing the early responses dictating whether you get a hard or an easy start. I still need ideas/clarification on how mother can further be used as leverage against the player so father can make you do all these horrible things...

 

So I believe there are two different places in the story where such leverage needs to be exerted, before and after mother's return?

• After mother's return:
  • Given that mother is literally sitting helpless and limbless in a cage, I do not think that direct threats of violence against mother should be out of the question. Such threats could be presented:
    • During favor loss/apologies
    • During "standard" punishments
    • During force greets - perhaps random replacements to the otherwise boring "I need to check up on you" dialog
  • There could be consequences for duty failure. You already implemented various punishments such as beatings, etc. and indeed also a more "endgame"-like punishment such as being thrown out. Perhaps a different punishment could be father physically harming mother instead of you being thrown out when favor drops too low. Happen too many times? Well, he could kill her. Still low favor? Well at this point he could throw you out. This also plays well "gameplay"-wise because then getting mother back would effectively protect you from getting immediately thrown out because he would instead punish mother.
  • Also, I will just re-iterate something I said earlier: I do not believe mother should actually be cured when paying father for the the 10000 septims cure. It could be a "trap" instead, but a trap that is required for you to get the best possible ending (getting rid of father without bounty in every hold). This also makes it so you do not need to consider what should happen once mother is cured, which I think is hard leap logically. For example the idea to get rid of father could come from mother, but first after you've "paid for her cure".
• Before mother's return:
  • Frankly, it's very hard to think of something for this because it very quickly becomes non-tangible when mother is not present. I would see if I could get her returned to the home as a more natural part of the story instead of by paying a big amount. For example it could happen based on your depravity/submission (logically this could be because father think he has broken you enough to not rebel, so it is "safe" to return her).
  • This would also add an interesting gameplay-point: If you act in a way to keep your submission/depravity very low for a long time, it becomes almost impossible to pay for mother's expenses (because the cost increases with time), leading her to die, which means you are naturally lead to acting depravated if you want to see mother's return.
  • This would also present a more natural way of explaining why she is suddenly limbless. Previously you just paid 2000 septims, and yet she returns completely helpless. Why? Perhaps mother's return could instead be explained as her treatment failed and now father needs much more gold (10000) in order to send her to the best treatment center in Cyrodill.
    • But this is a trap. Father has no intention of curing mother when he receive those 10000 septims from the PC. Instead he uses those money for himself/his house, turning it into a "sex dungeon" for the player (or maybe he spends it differently, who knows?). But, after this has happend it will be possible through dialog with the mother to get a plan to kill/get rid of father without getting a bounty in every hold, which would be the only "GOOD END".
  • Perhaps using this idea would mean you would have to get rid of the "instant-breeder" feature that is performed upon mother's return, since it might happen earlier in the mod. This could instead happen if mother dies (either by you not paying initially before her return or by father killing her). It could also happen as one of the "random" punishment that could happen if mother dies in the idea you just presented above (and I will quote below this section).

These ideas would probably all have the pre-requisite that mother should not hate you after her return. Otherwise they do not work that well.

 

I might have said something very similar in a previous post, so apologies if you've already read and rejected them as non-feasible for whatever reason.

 

12 hours ago, Monoman1 said:

I had an idea last night for the whole mother thing. At the start Father makes the veiled threat "ill be your sole guardian if your mother dies" blah blah. 

If/when mother dies then any event that creates an apology event takes away some of the freedoms you've been afforded up to then:

- The door is unlocked later in the day and locked earlier at night

- Father will no longer buy licences for you

- not allowed to take time off

- Add 100 debt per day

- player storage is locked

- player weapons taken

- player armor taken

- fitted with a collar that allows you x distance from home.

- not allowed to carry gold

 

Dunno if they should have an order or be random. 

 

I really like this as an idea, although I am afraid you might be spending time on content most people would not see. It feels very appropriate though because I feel like mother dying really should be a sort of a "BAD END (with story)" scenario, and this fits that bill perfectly.

 

On 5/18/2022 at 8:47 AM, Monoman1 said:

IIRC I found it easier to pull better information from FM. 

+ I found on long games that BF was creating a lot of script instances when loading into an area. Though I doubt FM is innocent in that area either. 

 

Thank you very much for the info! In that case I will not panic so much about needing to switch to FM3.

 

On 5/18/2022 at 6:28 PM, Monoman1 said:

?‍♂️

 

All I am saying is that I am feeling almost bad only being able to support you with $1.

 

Don't get the wrong idea. I'm not interested in any benefits from this. 

 

You're simply making something very unique, not just in Skyrim modding, but just in general. So I really badly want to see you succeed.

Edited May 21, 2022 by leakim

[audhol]

38 minutes ago, Monoman1 said:

Nope I don't

Fair enough. I like your idea of much harsher penalties for an apology event after her death, not game ending but a big incentive to keep her alive.

 

39 minutes ago, Monoman1 said:

I'd be a bit concerned they've lost some fidelity in the process though? (Can't win!)

Yep theyre definately less defined, Maybe I'll package up 2 versions hd and lowfi then you can choose or the user could depending on what they prefer (please let me have made a save before applying thoose filters?)

[kapibar]

47 minutes ago, Monoman1 said:

I had an idea last night for the whole mother thing. At the start Father makes the veiled threat "ill be your sole guardian if your mother dies" blah blah. 

If/when mother dies then any event that creates an apology event takes away some of the freedoms you've been afforded up to then:

- The door is unlocked later in the day and locked earlier at night

- Father will no longer buy licences for you

- not allowed to take time off

- Add 100 debt per day

- player storage is locked

- player weapons taken

- player armor taken

- fitted with a collar that allows you x distance from home.

- not allowed to carry gold

 

Dunno if they should have an order or be random.

 

In order. But they should also be somehow available to those who do the actual RP.

 

48 minutes ago, Monoman1 said:

Nope I don't

 

Now I'm quite certain that you're a fucking engineer IRL. And probably German. ?

[audhol]

Spoiler

 

[kapibar]

@audhol hm. It's starting to grow on me this whole project.

[audhol]

14 minutes ago, kapibar said:

It's starting to grow on me this whole project.

 

 

[kapibar]

11 hours ago, Monoman1 said:

 I still need ideas/clarification on how mother can further be used as leverage against the player so father can make you do all these horrible things...

I have an idea. You could include some verbal violence. Instead of calling PC "daughter", father could verbally abuse her as a sort of "punishment" - calling her things like "motherless bitch", "stray whore", "orphan slut", "corpse's spawn"...

Another "punishing" mechanics could be a mental breakdown - when not in combat, PC randomly goes into "bereavement depression" (bleedout animation) as the time skips 1-2 hours. This would decrease predictability of WT and have some consequences for the gameplay.

[Mushikisai]

1 hour ago, Monoman1 said:

I had an idea last night for the whole mother thing. At the start Father makes the veiled threat "ill be your sole guardian if your mother dies" blah blah. 

If/when mother dies then any event that creates an apology event takes away some of the freedoms you've been afforded up to then:

- The door is unlocked later in the day and locked earlier at night

- Father will no longer buy licences for you

- not allowed to take time off

- Add 100 debt per day

- player storage is locked

- player weapons taken

- player armor taken

- fitted with a collar that allows you x distance from home.

- not allowed to carry gold

 

Dunno if they should have an order or be random. 

 

Maybe you can use massive amounts of favour to regain them ~50 favour

 

Maybe even consider adding pc to the slaverun's slave as father's private slave?(if avaliable)

Also, how about the idea of the father forcing PC to go out into prostitution to make more money for him?

There are some more easily options, forcing PC to wear arm restraints when she is not serving father?

[kapibar]

2 minutes ago, dayangvvv said:

Maybe even consider adding pc to the slaverun's slave as father's private slave?(if avaliable)

Honestly, recommending Slaverun which is barely functional at this point and no longer supported is ill advised.

 

3 minutes ago, dayangvvv said:

There are some more easily options, forcing PC to wear arm restraints when she is not serving father?

The only problem is PC is in servitude mode for more than 12h/day and night bondage is already covered.

[audhol]

Ideas About Mother (warning overly complicated thoughts ahead)

 

Spoiler

Why does father send mother away if his ultimate goal is to force daughter to voluntarily become his breeding mare? Surely just leaving her in a coma and have daughter keeping her drugged by fetching the herbs every couple of days would be easier and daughter would be more compliant seeing her mother before her eyes all the time.

 

What if when mother and daughter have the conversation about daughter working mother gives her her old chastity belt telling her it will keep her pure untill she meets the man she wants to mary.

 

"Don't tell your father, he hates this belt"

"Your grandmother would'nt release me from it untill I was married to your father, only the daughters guardian can unlock it"

"I think your father would have killed her if he had'nt known about the curse that if the guardian is murdered it can never be unlocked"

 

So the daughter equips the belt and wartimes plays out as before up till the point of either the first naked supply run or first stripped tension (not massage) whereupon father sees that the player has the belt on.

He knows he can't remove the belt if mother doesn't agree to unlock it

He knows he can't kill mother or it will never come off

He knows if mother dies through lack of care he becomes the guardian and have acces to the key because it would be daughters fault

 

This gives the player another reason to keep mother alive otherwise she becomes the breeding mare

It explains why father is'nt keen to help pay for mothers care

It explains why father "tortures" mother by keeping her in the cage and only servicing him and the mutt

If father refuses to sell the daughter the healing soup it would be considered murder

So breeding quest would'nt start when mother comes back caged but it could open up other possibilities of father forcing daughter and mother to try to get the key

It would have to be an open belt to enable slutiness to advance but the orgasm quest would have to be suspended whilst the daughter is belted (can a pc orgasm in SSO if belted?)

Perhaps an extra line of dialogue with mother like  "Mother we can't continue like this, unlock me please" to start the breeding mare quest at the point that it does now?

 

 

 

[kapibar]

14 minutes ago, audhol said:

Ideas About Mother (warning overly complicated thoughts ahead)

I like the first idea. Father could later use this to guilt trip PC - she was poisoning mother all along, so if she doesn't comply, father could tell the authorities. Also could insult the PC for being a gullible, brainless moron who needs superior mind giving her direction.

[jc321]

2 hours ago, Monoman1 said:

The door is unlocked later in the day and locked earlier at night

- Father will no longer buy licences for you

- not allowed to take time off

- Add 100 debt per day

- player storage is locked

- player weapons taken

- player armor taken

- fitted with a collar that allows you x distance from home.

- not allowed to carry gold

 

- Optional sadistic mode in MCM that father punishes player if they use additem f xxxxx .. 

I like the collar idea 

 

 

[audhol]

Spoiler

FSDaddyStageWhateverSlut.dds

[Balgin]

1 hour ago, audhol said:

 

 

Trust Kenneth Williams to post a Barbara Windsor reference :).

[kapibar]

@Balgin have you tested my solution for the Amren's sword quest?

[Balgin]

3 minutes ago, kapibar said:

@Balgin have you tested my solution for the Amren's sword quest?

Not yet. It's an early game quest that's entirely optional and it's main purpose is often as an excuse to go and look for the Transmute spellbook.

[kapibar]

9 minutes ago, Balgin said:

Not yet. It's an early game quest that's entirely optional and it's main purpose is often as an excuse to go and look for the Transmute spellbook.

Sure, but if you ever get to it - give me feedback if it worked for you (I know it did for me).

[leakim]

22 hours ago, leakim said:

 

So I believe there are two different places in the story where such leverage needs to be exerted, before and after mother's return?

• After mother's return:
  • Given that mother is literally sitting helpless and limbless in a cage, I do not think that direct threats of violence against mother should be out of the question. Such threats could be presented:
    • During favor loss/apologies
    • During "standard" punishments
    • During force greets - perhaps random replacements to the otherwise boring "I need to check up on you" dialog
  • There could be consequences for duty failure. You already implemented various punishments such as beatings, etc. and indeed also a more "endgame"-like punishment such as being thrown out. Perhaps a different punishment could be father physically harming mother instead of you being thrown out when favor drops too low. Happen too many times? Well, he could kill her. Still low favor? Well at this point he could throw you out. This also plays well "gameplay"-wise because then getting mother back would effectively protect you from getting immediately thrown out because he would instead punish mother.
  • Also, I will just re-iterate something I said earlier: I do not believe mother should actually be cured when paying father for the the 10000 septims cure. It could be a "trap" instead, but a trap that is required for you to get the best possible ending (getting rid of father without bounty in every hold). This also makes it so you do not need to consider what should happen once mother is cured, which I think is hard leap logically. For example the idea to get rid of father could come from mother, but first after you've "paid for her cure".
• Before mother's return:
  • Frankly, it's very hard to think of something for this because it very quickly becomes non-tangible when mother is not present. I would see if I could get her returned to the home as a more natural part of the story instead of by paying a big amount. For example it could happen based on your depravity/submission (logically this could be because father think he has broken you enough to not rebel, so it is "safe" to return her).
  • This would also add an interesting gameplay-point: If you act in a way to keep your submission/depravity very low for a long time, it becomes almost impossible to pay for mother's expenses (because the cost increases with time), leading her to die, which means you are naturally lead to acting depravated if you want to see mother's return.
  • This would also present a more natural way of explaining why she is suddenly limbless. Previously you just paid 2000 septims, and yet she returns completely helpless. Why? Perhaps mother's return could instead be explained as her treatment failed and now father needs much more gold (10000) in order to send her to the best treatment center in Cyrodill.
    • But this is a trap. Father has no intention of curing mother when he receive those 10000 septims from the PC. Instead he uses those money for himself/his house, turning it into a "sex dungeon" for the player (or maybe he spends it differently, who knows?). But, after this has happend it will be possible through dialog with the mother to get a plan to kill/get rid of father without getting a bounty in every hold, which would be the only "GOOD END".
  • Perhaps using this idea would mean you would have to get rid of the "instant-breeder" feature that is performed upon mother's return, since it might happen earlier in the mod. This could instead happen if mother dies (either by you not paying initially before her return or by father killing her). It could also happen as one of the "random" punishment that could happen if mother dies in the idea you just presented above (and I will quote below this section).

 

 

Maybe it is pretty dark that there would be no way to cure mother. Maybe curing mother could be added as an "epilogue" type quest after achieving the "GOOD END", where father is gone and mother is alive, but limbless. Perhaps Farengar could help with that? I heard he has past dealings with amputations and even restoring limbs. This way you do not need to consider all the consequences "curing mother" would have for the story. Frankly it is difficult to think of good story points for this, because it simply does not make much sense.

 

But I really do not like the idea of father helping to cure mother. He would never do that. Father obviously poisoned her, didn't he? Perhaps he is simply keeping her locked away in the cellar of the house, a place the player can't possibly get to? This way you do not have to deal with the player "potentially" finding her in some random hold and the consequences this would have for the story with various story "off-shoots" that you would have to deal with as well. I'd see if I could keep the story a bit more linear in terms of the "grand plot". I know this might sound boring to "open-world enthusiasts", but I think this would work well for this mod.

Edited May 22, 2022 by leakim

[Dreamer1986]

Eventually, it would be interesting if there would be a somewhat hard to get fairy tale ending, with mother alive and healthy, sister okay as well, and father getting a change of heart, figuring out that he actually loves his family in his twisted way, and wants to maintain a relationship with all, a somewhat peaceful harem, with everyone accepting that this is just how he is, and that he means only for everyone to accept their twisted side as well and have fun. 

[audhol]

Think this is final version and finished for the Lillith sister tats, still working on daughter ones.

 

Spoiler

 

[Balgin]

1 hour ago, audhol said:

Think this is final version and finished for the Lillith sister tats, still working on daughter ones.

 

  Reveal hidden contents

 

Looking very nice there although I suspect that some of the detail of the pubic tattoo would be lost if she gained the optional penis model that might be attached to her at some point in the future if Monoman goes through with that particular plan.

[audhol]

1 hour ago, Balgin said:

Looking very nice there although I suspect that some of the detail of the pubic tattoo would be lost if she gained the optional penis model that might be attached to her at some point in the future if Monoman goes through with that particular plan.

Thats a very good point I had'nt thought of. I will have to do an alternate version for futa of that tat too.