Wartimes - a daughter's tale LE (Alternate start scenario)

[leakim]

Adding a bit to the idea that mother/PC has a better relationship:

• Perhaps father could overhear some of the dialogs you have with mother and perhaps even kill her and/or punish you severely. Often it can be nice to build up hope, for example: This scheme is going to get rid of father. Only to then completely destroy that very same hope later, making the PC feel even worse.

[audhol]

27 minutes ago, kapibar said:

FUTA goes out of the window. Also not exactly a dominant trait.

Futa's cant get pregnant? Also historicaly the way for a woman to gain power was to bear a son to a powerfull man.

[kapibar]

  

1 hour ago, Monoman1 said:

Maybe, Father could just impose some rule on the PC:

I think rules are not a bad idea, but why this fucker would care about mother? Makes little sense from a character standpoint. If the old hag dies - he can just enslave the little bitch, not like it's outside of his MO. Then he could just torture her into submission. But this gave me an idea. Maybe we could change the whole concept of player's slavery. Actually, yours is pretty similar:

 

52 minutes ago, Monoman1 said:

Then remove Mother's health mechanic completely. You owe Father 100 gold per day for Mother's upkeep, full stop. But then it is very similar (identical really) to 'rent'.

 

Now the player has to pay for mother's upkeep. What if the father proposed a different idea from the start? He will pay for mother's health, as long PC serves him. If she fails him, the mother will die and he will become PC's legal guardian. From now on, all the jobs PC performs for father generate favour instead of money (customers pay him, he does everything). PC is forbidden from having any cash on her, he also confiscates everything outside of YPS stuff and the clothes he gives her. Favours are the only currency that matters inside the mod. Want something to eat? Favours. Want devices removed? Favours. Want Licence? Favours. The rent also costs favours.

 

It would obviously require changing the whole system, but in the end everything would be automatic. And if you fail...? That's the legal guardian part - he owns you. You have no money (because the bastards steals every penny), no gear, no ability to move around freely. If you escape - thugs come after you and bring you for reeducation. No escape.

 

As for exploration - as usual, you can buy few days of freedom. But you better think of some way to stash your shit, because once the freedom expires, you're still father's bitch. And of course your purpose is to bear his child.

Now why this is a better idea than paying with cash? Because father would functionally own the PC and the player would have to think outside of the box on how to accumulate funds/gear. Maybe persuade some good soul to keep an eye on your gear for access to PC's pussy...? Don't know. Also, player would be motivated, because the alternative is slavery. And not your usual slavery, where you can somehow run away. You can leave the house only when father allows it. If you're not back inside a certain time period - you're hunted down and reeducated. So the motivation is there, but the player still has to make concious decision to stay on father's good side. And that means progressing compromises. Also, it wouldn't be players decision to get limbless mother back. One day father could just decide that it's time for a next step in her education (let's say @ 50 submission?).

 

But it would be a lot of work to balance this whole shit out.

Edited May 16, 2022 by kapibar

[kapibar]

9 minutes ago, audhol said:

Futa's cant get pregnant? Also historicaly the way for a woman to gain power was to bear a son to a powerfull man.

Pregnant futa would require a giant stretch of imagination. Sometimes too much is too much. As for the power via procreation thing - I don't think there's any in-lore indication this is the case for Skyrim. So again, would require stretch or go directly against the lore. Actually in such scenario it is the PC who would be the assertive person who made her own way. It's hard to imagine she would submit to a girl who was more submissive.

[audhol]

3 minutes ago, kapibar said:

Pregnant futa would require a giant stretch of imagination.

Well a woman growing a giant penis and her mother living in a cage with no limbs that only comes out to service the dog requires a certain level of imagination already and I think in the SLS misogynistic world the only way for a woman to have power is to make use of a man. The whole premise of wartimes for an sls playthrough is to get the benefits of a home and city access by catering to the whims of a man.

[ucglow]

16 minutes ago, kapibar said:

  

I think rules are not a bad idea, but why this fucker would care about mother? Makes little sense from a character standpoint. If the old hag dies - he can just enslave the little bitch, not like it's outside of his MO. Then he could just torture her into submission. But this gave me an idea. Maybe we could change the whole concept of player's slavery. Actually, yours is pretty similar:

 

 

Now the player has to pay for mother's upkeep. What if the father proposed a different idea from the start? He will pay for mother's health, as long PC serves him. If she fails him, the mother will die and he will become PC's legal guardian. From now on, all the jobs PC performs for father generate favour instead of money (customers pay him, he does everything). PC is forbidden from having any cash on her, he also confiscates everything outside of YPS stuff and the clothes he gives her. Favours are the only currency that matters inside the mod. Want something to eat? Favours. Want devices removed? Favours. Want Licence? Favours. The rent also costs favours.

 

It would obviously require changing the whole system, but in the end everything would be automatic. And if you fail...? That's the legal guardian part - he owns you. You have no money (because the bastards steals every penny), no gear, no ability to move around freely. If you escape - thugs come after you and bring you for reeducation. No escape.

As for exploration - as usual, you can buy few days of freedom. But you better think of some way to stash your shit, because once the freedom expires, you're still father's bitch. Amd of course your purpose is to bear his child.

Now why this is a better idea than paying with cash? Because father would functionally own the PC and the player would have to think outside of the box on how to accumulate funds/gear. Maybe persuade some good soul to keep an eye on your gear for access to PC's pussy...? Don't know. Also, player would be motivated, because the alternative is slavery. And not your usual slavery, where you can somehow runaway. You can leave the house only when father allows it. If you're not back inside a certain time period - you're hunted down and reeducated. So the motivation is there, but the player still has to make concious decision to stay on father's good side. And that means progressing compromises. Also, it wouldn't be players decision to get limbless mother back. One day father could just decide that it's time for a next step in her education (let's say @ 50 submission?).

 

But it would be a lot of work to balance this whole shit out.

This definitely makes it more hardcore/interesting experience. I know for a fact stashing stuff is hard enough, plus it gives more incentive to be fathers pet.

+1

[kapibar]

7 minutes ago, audhol said:

Well a woman growing a giant penis and her mother living in a cage with no limbs that only comes out to service the dog requires a certain level of imagination already and I think in the SLS misogynistic world the only way for a woman to have power is to make use of a man. The whole premise of wartimes for an sls playthrough is to get the benefits of a home and city access by catering to the whims of a man.

But there's nothing that confirms the notion that bearing children equals power. There are still female adventurers, scholars and magicians. They may not be as powerful as their male counterparts, but I know for a fact that perks make the misogyny gap irrelevant. You're suggesting that SLS functions above Skyrim's logic, while in fact it only changes some of its aspects and its functionalities can be easily explained or overlooked. If benefits like home or access to the city would be this tempting inside SLS'd Skyrim, Mono wouldn't have to try this hard to make the whole plot so complicated. There would be no need for mother, the home would suffice. But it doesn't.

 

Don't get me wrong, I can accept stretching the limits imposed by the lore, but ignoring them altogether and playing by some made-up rules? Well, then it would be best to remove Skyrim altogether.

 

And about futa - like I said, there's a stretch of imagination and there's absurd. Think Disney Star Wars - there are Force abilities and there's "somehow Palpatine returned" or Mary Poppins Leia. In every stretch there's a breaking point. Pregnant futa is mine.

[Monoman1]

1 hour ago, leakim said:

Things @Monoman1 could consider related to mother:

I like a lot of these ideas. Little buffs from having Mother around. But again it suffers from the whole "you don't know you get them until you actually get mother back" thing. 

 

30 minutes ago, kapibar said:

But it would be a lot of work to balance this whole shit out.

It's an interesting idea but foresee problems (you know me!)

1. I'd imagine father is already your legal guardian by law being your father and all. 

2. Yes, probably even more massive overhaul of systems
3. System falls apart somewhat without SLS stash stealing basically making SLS all but hard requirement. Without SLS you can just stash all the gold/items you find in a barrel in Whiterun/on the ground outside/wherever. 

4. below

40 minutes ago, kapibar said:

But it would be a lot of work to balance this whole shit out.

 

 

37 minutes ago, kapibar said:

Pregnant futa would require a giant stretch of imagination.

It doesn't seem like you're interested in futa stuff anyway so just let it go? Like I've said, if it's in it'll definitely be optional anyway.

I don't know much about futa stuff, it's never been my thing, but my understanding is that they have both male/female reproductive systems anyway, no?

[leakim]

36 minutes ago, kapibar said:

  

I think rules are not a bad idea, but why this fucker would care about mother? Makes little sense from a character standpoint. If the old hag dies - he can just enslave the little bitch, not like it's outside of his MO. Then he could just torture her into submission. But this gave me an idea. Maybe we could change the whole concept of player's slavery. Actually, yours is pretty similar:

 

 

Now the player has to pay for mother's upkeep. What if the father proposed a different idea from the start? He will pay for mother's health, as long PC serves him. If she fails him, the mother will die and he will become PC's legal guardian. From now on, all the jobs PC performs for father generate favour instead of money (customers pay him, he does everything). PC is forbidden from having any cash on her, he also confiscates everything outside of YPS stuff and the clothes he gives her. Favours are the only currency that matters inside the mod. Want something to eat? Favours. Want devices removed? Favours. Want Licence? Favours. The rent also costs favours.

 

It would obviously require changing the whole system, but in the end everything would be automatic. And if you fail...? That's the legal guardian part - he owns you. You have no money (because the bastards steals every penny), no gear, no ability to move around freely. If you escape - thugs come after you and bring you for reeducation. No escape.

 

As for exploration - as usual, you can buy few days of freedom. But you better think of some way to stash your shit, because once the freedom expires, you're still father's bitch. And of course your purpose is to bear his child.

Now why this is a better idea than paying with cash? Because father would functionally own the PC and the player would have to think outside of the box on how to accumulate funds/gear. Maybe persuade some good soul to keep an eye on your gear for access to PC's pussy...? Don't know. Also, player would be motivated, because the alternative is slavery. And not your usual slavery, where you can somehow run away. You can leave the house only when father allows it. If you're not back inside a certain time period - you're hunted down and reeducated. So the motivation is there, but the player still has to make concious decision to stay on father's good side. And that means progressing compromises. Also, it wouldn't be players decision to get limbless mother back. One day father could just decide that it's time for a next step in her education (let's say @ 50 submission?).

 

But it would be a lot of work to balance this whole shit out.

 

LIke this idea a lot, although, as you say yourself, I think it would require quite a refactor of the existing content.

 

At this point I almost feel sorry for Monoman1. If he intends to implement even a fraction of all these ideas we wont see the next update this year ^^

 

Hopefully he will be able to scoop up the lowest hanging fruits that fit together.

[kapibar]

6 minutes ago, Monoman1 said:

1. I'd imagine father is already your legal guardian by law being your father and all.

It's quite vague if he's PC's actual father. I know you removed all the suggestions about him being stepfather, but it istn't exactly clear. And by "legal guardian" I mean your owner. Considering how many slavery mods are there, we can safely assume inside of LL Skyrim slavery is at least tolerated if not semi-legal.

 

9 minutes ago, Monoman1 said:

2. Yes, probably even more massive overhaul of systems

Yeah, that's what I suspected. I may not know much about modding, but I know a thing or two about economy.

 

11 minutes ago, Monoman1 said:

3. System falls apart somewhat without SLS stash stealing basically making SLS all but hard requirement. Without SLS you can just stash all the gold/items you find in a barrel in Whiterun/on the ground outside/wherever.

Half of the content requires SLS already. Fuck, I wasn't even aware it's NOT a hard requirement.

 

12 minutes ago, Monoman1 said:

It doesn't seem like you're interested in futa stuff anyway so just let it go?

Quite the opposite in fact. Like I told you when the idea was first dropped - I considered it a problematic implementation and not worth the trouble, considering there's not a shit ton of content that actually uses this mechanic. But WT is a different story altogether. I installed SLSO because of it (never used it earlier) and the content added has compensated me for the inconvenience. If you implement futa and make a compelling story around it - sure as shit I'll get back to the subject. I'm a sucker for sick ideas, and this one is as fucked up as they come. That's why I started this discussion in the first place - if I didn't give a fuck, I wouldn't said anything ?.

[leakim]

35 minutes ago, Monoman1 said:

I like a lot of these ideas. Little buffs from having Mother around. But again it suffers from the whole "you don't know you get them until you actually get mother back" thing. 

 

I get what you're saying. I think there is a fundamental thing you should change in relation to getting mother back:

• Frankly, getting mother back is already the objective from the start of the mod, so I do not believe you need a whole lot of additional motivation as long as there is some resemblense of relationship between her and the PC.
• It should be "easy" enough to get her back that you can enjoy a big part of the mod with her there. So maybe some consideration should be given to how hard it is to get her back. Make it easier. Or perhaps a natural part of the progression of the mod.
  • Perhaps it could instead tied to some level of submission/depravity by the PC.
  • Perhaps it could instead be a part of how the story is naturally developing rather than an active choice by the PC to pay the father.
• One of the biggest selling points of this mod is the slowly creeping corruption and this must not be sacrificed for this purpose, so perhaps getting mother back should no longer lead to immediate end-game sex progression and father wanting to get PC pregnant. 
  • Alternatively immediate "pregnancy" sex progression could be tied to other events that can only happen after mother is back. (For example finding sister or mother dying or something completely different)

 

Edited May 16, 2022 by leakim

[Monoman1]

Also... for father to play his hand so heavily, so early on in the mod would be weird...

"If your mother dies I own you..."

Father is a conniving serpent after all. 

Edited May 16, 2022 by Monoman1

[Kryona]

32 minutes ago, Monoman1 said:

I like a lot of these ideas. Little buffs from having Mother around. But again it suffers from the whole "you don't know you get them until you actually get mother back" thing. 

 

 

What if you added the buffs directly at the start of the game while the mother is still at home? So the player can see theyre there. And then when the mother is taken away and the mod really starts, theyre removed so that it becomes obvious if you want them back you need to get the mother back. Maybe hint at it too so that the player actually notices the buffs before theyre gone. Maybe you could utilize the diary that the PC reads at the very start for that and mention how the Mother has trained the player in certain skills in the past or makes her feel more secure or whatever buffs you want to add. And since the mother is taken away really quickly, having those buffs for a short time isnt really gamebreaking.

 

[kapibar]

9 minutes ago, Monoman1 said:

Also... for father to play his hand so heavily, so early on in the mod would be weird...

"If your mother dies I own you..."

That's why I used this specific phrasing - "if mother dies, I become your legal guardian". It's not like he's not implying stuff in the beginning - "grow your hair, should give me leverage". Or "this should keep that body of yours firm". Being a legal guardian sounds pretty tame in comparison.

Edited May 16, 2022 by kapibar

[leakim]

18 minutes ago, leakim said:

 

I get what you're saying. I think there is a fundamental thing you should change in relation to getting mother back:

• Frankly, getting mother back is already the objective from the start of the mod, so I do not believe you need a whole lot of additional motivation as long as there is some resemblense of relationship between her and the PC.
• It should be "easy" enough to get her back that you can enjoy a big part of the mod with her there. So maybe some consideration should be given to how hard it is to get her back. Make it easier. Or perhaps a natural part of the progression of the mod.
  • Perhaps it could instead tied to some level of submission/depravity by the PC.
  • Perhaps it could instead be a part of how the story is naturally developing rather than an active choice by the PC to pay the father.
• One of the biggest selling points of this mod is the slowly creeping corruption and this must not be sacrificed for this purpose, so perhaps getting mother back should no longer lead to immediate end-game sex progression and father wanting to get PC pregnant. 
  • Alternatively immediate "pregnancy" sex progression could be tied to other events that can only happen after mother is back. (For example finding sister or mother dying or something completely different)

 

 

Adding to my thoughts above:

• Perhaps paying for mothers cure should actually be a "dead end(!?)" rather than provide a positive outcome. Maybe father will just take the money and turn the house into an even bigger sex dungeon, for you, your mother and your sister. The only real way to get out of this your situation should be getting rid of father.
  • Unless you tie curing mother to actually killing father I do not believe it is going to be worth it or be very satisfying for the player. Curing mother and then just ending the quest is quite lacklustre.
  • On the other hand, father taking the gold you give him and using it against you is totally in-line with what father would do I think. 
  • Who knows? Perhaps it should only be possible to "develop" the idea of using the Dark Brotherhood to eliminate father after he has turned the house into a sex dungeon? (thereby requiring you to pay him in order to "complete" the mod)

I'll stop now. For now at least.

[Monoman1]

20 minutes ago, kapibar said:

That's why I used this specific phrasing - "if mother dies, I become your legal guardian". It's not like he's not implying stuff in the beginning - "grow your hair, should give me leverage". Or "this should keep that body of yours firm". Being a legal guardian sounds pretty tame in comparison.

I worded it very bluntly to convey my point. 

How would father word it as a veiled, but compelling threat in the early mod?

[kapibar]

21 minutes ago, Monoman1 said:

I worded it very bluntly to convey my point. 

How would father word it as a veiled, but compelling threat in the early mod?

Well, the same was my point - to underline the fact that keeping mother ailve is a preferred status quo from PC's pov. That now he's playing with his gloves on, but when she fucks up, the soft is off.

 

Actually, if you want rephrasing:

"I'll take care of your mother's health, honey, as long as you work dilligently. But if you fail the person that brought you to this world, I will be forced to find it necessary to sort out your priorities for you, without necessarily taking your will into account".

Edited May 16, 2022 by kapibar

[kapibar]

Gentlepeople, I was wondering if anybody can help me. The issue at hand is somewhat connected to WT, high heels more specifically. With SL's "Clear Heel's Height" setting the PC "sinks" into the ground a little, which is quite infuriating. Solution for this would be to move the whole scene up. However, it is quite a daunting task doing it manually actor by actor, and with 700+ animation it is next to impossible. Does anyone know a trick or a solution to this problem? Or maybe a proper SL setting that would take care of the problem...?

[jc321]

I have no idea I'm afraid but keep seeing references for Nioverride in a lot of mod settings which appears to address high heels. Is that not an option?

[Balgin]

1 hour ago, kapibar said:

Gentlepeople, I was wondering if anybody can help me. The issue at hand is somewhat connected to WT, high heels more specifically. With SL's "Clear Heel's Height" setting the PC "sinks" into the ground a little, which is quite infuriating. Solution for this would be to move the whole scene up. However, it is quite a daunting task doing it manually actor by actor, and with 700+ animation it is next to impossible. Does anyone know a trick or a solution to this problem? Or maybe a proper SL setting that would take care of the problem...?

Did you open Racemenu while wearing high heels? This almost always causes this problem. Take them off before opening Racemenu and put them back on afterwards.

 

If it is racemenu related then the problem will perisst through reloading saves with the same character. Sometimes area transitions will fix it but it's very rare. Closing down the entire game, relaunching the game, and loading up the save always fixes this if it's a Racemenu thing.

 

If you're referring specifically to the high heel height clear that sinks the shoes into the ground to use crafting benches or sit on chairs then I believe the HDT High Heel MCM has an option to turn that off.

 

You might want to check the settings in the right hand column.

 

[kapibar]

13 minutes ago, Balgin said:

Did you open Racemenu while wearing high heels? This almost always causes this problem. Take them off before opening Racemenu and put them back on afterwards.

Sinking is only present in SL animations. I think high heels clear function "eats" tiny bit too much height. Beside animation - everything is OK. Also, I don't have HDT HH. Removed it recently. In a longer gameplay it completely destroys SL, checking for heel effect takes forever.

[leakim]

3 hours ago, kapibar said:

Gentlepeople, I was wondering if anybody can help me. The issue at hand is somewhat connected to WT, high heels more specifically. With SL's "Clear Heel's Height" setting the PC "sinks" into the ground a little, which is quite infuriating. Solution for this would be to move the whole scene up. However, it is quite a daunting task doing it manually actor by actor, and with 700+ animation it is next to impossible. Does anyone know a trick or a solution to this problem? Or maybe a proper SL setting that would take care of the problem...?

 

While this sort of thing does not consistently happen to me, it does happen sometimes.

 

I find that if I simply click the "Realign Actors" hotkey from Sexlab, the problem is solved immediately. Have you tried this?

[kapibar]

6 minutes ago, leakim said:

 

While this sort of thing does not consistently happen to me, it does happen sometimes.

 

I find that if I simply click the "Realign Actors" hotkey from Sexlab, the problem is solved immediately. Have you tried this?

Yup. Like Titanic, it doesn't unsink.

[leakim]

Ugh. Sounds infuriating.

 

What I usually do in these types of situations is create a new Mod Organizer profile (copy) and then:

 * Remove half the mods in the setup

 * Start a new game and see if the problem persist

 * Rinse and repeat until the problem disappears.

 * Then for the last set of mods removed: Add half until the problem appears again.

 

I find the mod "Faster Mod Setup Notifications" a blessing in these situations because I do not have to wait as long after starting a new game to be sure everything is ready.

 

Lots of work, I know.

 

Obiovusly there are mods that I find are of higher chance of causing the problem, and I usually just start with removing those rather than just half in the first go.

Edited May 17, 2022 by leakim

[Desvati]

On 5/16/2022 at 1:56 PM, Monoman1 said:

Updated slightly. 

Opinions on:

- Starting point for sister's reveal?

- Placing Mother in a random hold. Finding her would give you a legitimate reason to explore. Confront Father when found. Removes healing upkeep? Can buy mother back for half her healing cost? But why would you want mother at this point? Mother is a real PITA to reconcile into the mod mechanics/plot. 

- Not sure about Benji sending thugs. How can a guy living in a shack, wearing rags afford to send hired goons. If I make him rich then why didn't he just pay for mother's healing himself... Yuck.

 

More suggestions for anything with a ????? or anything in general really.

 

LL seems to be compressing the image somewhat. Looks better on my desktop...

Starting point could potentially be somewhere around when regular sex with him starts occurring, by this point he'd be fairly certain he has the PC boxed in with his scheme, and with no way out she's either obeying willingly or because she has no other choice.

Reconciling mother in the mod is definitely a headache, and its also difficult to think of tangible things we can gain from her upkeep as mother herself is indisposed and on top of that there's the issue of balancing making things too good or too weak (and how much work they'd be to include). Some things just don't come to mind because they don't seem feasible.

Maybe Father could forgive some of your debt if you've been a good girl (high favour + keeping up on mother's medicine) for example, as a way to make himself seem more sympathetic (and further entrap the PC). But then you'd need to reconcile so much around it...