Wartimes - a daughter's tale LE (Alternate start scenario)

[Monoman1]

Just now, tinkerbelle said:

OK.  Good call.  The next question would be, are the slots fixed or are they floating.  So if I had put tattoos on slots 1 & 2, would the first stage overwrite my tattoo in slot 1 or would it be put in slot 3?

 

No overwriting. Use a free slot. If a free slot can't be found then do nothing. So worst that can happen is nothing. 

 

Many of my mods do overlays and use the same approach. 

[kapibar]

58 minutes ago, Monoman1 said:

Ah nothing cooking. I just meant that you may have failed to pay for the upkeep for mother thus allowing her to expire and thereby cutting you off from the sister plotline entirely.

Wanted a motivator to keep mother alive...? Well, here it is. No ridiculous debuffs necessary. You have your answer in the plotline. The punishment for neglegence is being cut off from a fucking cool content.

[Monoman1]

1 minute ago, kapibar said:

Wanted a motivator to keep mother alive...?

Is it though? If you're new to the mod or just put yourself in your PCs shoes. 

 

You're not aware you have a sister. You're not aware if mother dies you'll never see her. It's an invisible consequence rather than a motivator. And Father would have no reason not to pursue your sister if mother dies. 

[kapibar]

39 minutes ago, Monoman1 said:

Is it though? If you're new to the mod or just put yourself in your PCs shoes. 

Going with that logic - new player also wouldn't be aware of debuffs and they would hit out of nowhere. So how exactly would that be a motivator...?
 

43 minutes ago, Monoman1 said:

And Father would have no reason not to pursue your sister if mother dies. 

With this I have to strongly disagree. Humiliating mother is just a bonus, it's the PC that is the target and the centre of his entire scheme. If mother's dead, he would have all the more reason to drag the sister into his crap. He would replace the leverage he had on PC, obviously. He would also have two extremely attractive slaves he could profit from. Also destroying the PC gives him a rather obvious pleasure, and what would be more degrading than turning someone's sibling, twin a that into a warden in her life's prison? When mother is dead, father actually has very limited resources to keep the PC in check. If he doesn't want to loose her, he has all the reasons to pursue the sister and increase his chances.

[Monoman1]

8 minutes ago, kapibar said:

Going with that logic - new player also wouldn't be aware of debuffs and they would hit out of nowhere. So how exactly would that be a motivator...?

Yes I would absolutely agree. As I said they are very lame. Which is why I'm looking for solid/relatable/tangible motivation to keep mother alive. We've had none so far. 

 

Maybe, Father could just impose some rule on the PC: 

"As long as your mother is alive I will..... blah"

1. Allow you to buy licences with favour?

2. Improved favour for tasks?

3. ????

 

8 minutes ago, kapibar said:

If mother's dead, he would have all the more reason to drag the sister into his crap

That's what I meant. Therefore if he was to say to you "if you don't keep your mother alive you'll never see your sister" makes no sense for his character. He's going to get your sister involved one way or the other. 

Edited May 16, 2022 by Monoman1

[kapibar]

5 minutes ago, Monoman1 said:

Yes I would absolutely agree. As I said they are very lame. Which is why I'm looking for solid/relatable/tangible motivation to keep mother alive. We've had none so far.

 

I'd be glad to help, however I have a difficult time understanding why exactly mother should be kept alive. She serves little to no purpose beside being a leverage on the PC. And an easily replaceable leverage, because there's still the sister, and later the child. Maybe if you could clarify what is your exact narrative goal it would be easier to pinpoint a mechanic that would best serve this purpose.

[audhol]

ok for the feedback for stage 4 will work on it some more but I think tonight is the resumption of the JD trial so it moight not get a look in!

with regards to sister what if she is introduced if the daughter refuses to be the breeding mare for father. He would either find or send the p.c. to find the sister and then make her the mother of his son. This would enable the big sister to have a logically higher stand in the hiérarchie and also give her a reason to hate her little sister. Father would treat her better than the p.c. because she agreed to bear his child.

[kapibar]

1 minute ago, audhol said:

what if she is introduced if the daughter refuses to be the breeding mare for father.

FUTA goes out of the window. Also not exactly a dominant trait.

[leakim]

On 5/15/2022 at 4:58 PM, coffeeink said:

tbh. WT is not a start mod anymore for me. It has so much nice Content.

 

I even make an own profile for it and balance all the mods for WT (remove other mods i don't need, add some specific ones etc.).

Because i really like this simple "farm setting" So i add some mods around it for Animations, Whiterun Area Modifications, etc.

 

And as we all know. Removing mods from an existing save is never a good idea ?

 

 

Kinda with you on this one.

 

I'd be very interested in hearing what "flavor" mods you are adding as I am looking to do something similar myself. Especially interested in adding content in the area around Whiterun without affecting WT content. 

 

Things @Monoman1 could consider related to mother:

• Does it really make sense that your mother has to hate you once you get her back? I get why it was like that originally to truly make the PC feel terrible, but that certainly does not help in the whole "motivation to keep mother alive saga". There being a good friendly relationship between the characters could probably help this significantly. Obviously developing such a relationship would take significant effort on Monoman part, so I am not sure it would really be worth going too far down this road, but maybe it would be nice if the mother was more understanding about the monster that father is, therefore being more likable and thereby helping a little with motivation for keeping her alive.
• Maybe dialogs could be added to mother that are somehow beneficial to the PC. This is very tangible, because once she is dead such dialogs wont be available anymore.
  • Free skill training for certain skill trees every day?
  • Perhaps tasks that helps you more easily make gold.
  • Generally feel-good dialogs that are meant to make the PC feel happy despite the terrible situation that could give you temporary buffs that are easy to feel in a mod like this:  
    • Running speed buff: Since you will be walking in high heels, this will be very noticable for the period it lasts.
    • Alchemy buff: Helps cooking + money.
    • Etc.
• Maybe it could be through her that ideas such as killing father through the Dark Brotherhookd are developed.
  • Frankly, just the idea of needing to keep her alive to have the "best possible ending" is quite a motivator.
  • EDIT: Perhaps father could overhear some of the dialogs you have with mother and perhaps even kill her and/or punish you severely. Often it can be nice to build up hope, for example: This scheme is going to get rid of father. Only to then completely destroy that very same hope later, making the PC feel even worse.
• Maybe it could be through her that ideas such as finding your sister to "help you out of this situation" are developed. Obviously, only to take a bad turn. This would allow for a different way of introducing the sister into the story that does not involve the PC being "evil", which I am not a big fan of. In case of mother being dead, the sister could still be introduced in the way you otherwise imagined.

 

A question for Monoman1: You mentioned that FM3 is "preferred" over BeeingFemale at some point I think. Could you expand on why? Always used BeeingFemale (and I liked integration with other mods such as EC+) and was wondering if I should switch since integration with Wartimes has far higher priority for me.

 

Also a general question for anyone using FM3 in Oldrim: Can it really be right that you need to dive deep into the LL forum support thread for FM3 in order to find a script fix that makes scaling work properly with SLIF?

 

It's also very interesting to hear you've been playing the mod at timescale 5. Obviously if you include adventuring this is basically a requirement. Could consider adding a note about changing timescale in the description of the mod. Never occurred to me changing that. But now I definitely will.

 

Man, this mod is really shaping up to be the best thing that ever happend to sexy skyrim (along with Monoman's other mods, of course :D).

Edited May 16, 2022 by leakim

[Monoman1]

13 minutes ago, kapibar said:

I'd be glad to help, however I have a difficult time understanding why exactly mother should be kept alive. She serves little to no purpose beside being a leverage on the PC. And an easily replaceable leverage, because there's still the sister, and later the child. Maybe if you could clarify what is your exact narrative goal it would be easier to pinpoint a mechanic that would best serve this purpose.

Well I've stated it several times now. The problem is two fold:

1. The player has no emotional attachment to Mother. This really can only be solved by adding events etc in the lead up to the current beginning of WT. Sweet, endearing moments of connection between Mother and PC. 

2. The player is expected to pay for Mother's healing but because of point 1 and because there are zero repercussions then it is easier to just let Mother die than to continue to pay to keep her alive. 

 

Paying for Mother's healing is intended to keep you destitute, selling everything you own/find to pay for her; steal stuff, beg, whore, explore dangerous locations in the hope of finding something you can sell to get her back. Why do this? Just let her die and save the gold for yourself is the cold, calculating thing to do...

 

I could nearly, at this point, just add mother's upkeep on to your 'debt'. You are periodically approached by Father now to pay your debt and he takes gold or items from your person or from your room to cover the cost. Then remove Mother's health mechanic completely. You owe Father 100 gold per day for Mother's upkeep, full stop. But then it is very similar (identical really) to 'rent'. 

 

So what I'm looking for is an obvious tangible motivation for the player to spend all that time, gold and effort to keep mother alive, to look for her, to bring her back home, to have her healed...

 

"I'd better give 100 gold to father for Mother's upkeep, instead of saving it/spending it on something for myself because..... <insert reason here>"

 

It can be carrot, it can be stick. 

[leakim]

Adding a bit to the idea that mother/PC has a better relationship:

• Perhaps father could overhear some of the dialogs you have with mother and perhaps even kill her and/or punish you severely. Often it can be nice to build up hope, for example: This scheme is going to get rid of father. Only to then completely destroy that very same hope later, making the PC feel even worse.

[audhol]

27 minutes ago, kapibar said:

FUTA goes out of the window. Also not exactly a dominant trait.

Futa's cant get pregnant? Also historicaly the way for a woman to gain power was to bear a son to a powerfull man.

[kapibar]

  

1 hour ago, Monoman1 said:

Maybe, Father could just impose some rule on the PC:

I think rules are not a bad idea, but why this fucker would care about mother? Makes little sense from a character standpoint. If the old hag dies - he can just enslave the little bitch, not like it's outside of his MO. Then he could just torture her into submission. But this gave me an idea. Maybe we could change the whole concept of player's slavery. Actually, yours is pretty similar:

 

52 minutes ago, Monoman1 said:

Then remove Mother's health mechanic completely. You owe Father 100 gold per day for Mother's upkeep, full stop. But then it is very similar (identical really) to 'rent'.

 

Now the player has to pay for mother's upkeep. What if the father proposed a different idea from the start? He will pay for mother's health, as long PC serves him. If she fails him, the mother will die and he will become PC's legal guardian. From now on, all the jobs PC performs for father generate favour instead of money (customers pay him, he does everything). PC is forbidden from having any cash on her, he also confiscates everything outside of YPS stuff and the clothes he gives her. Favours are the only currency that matters inside the mod. Want something to eat? Favours. Want devices removed? Favours. Want Licence? Favours. The rent also costs favours.

 

It would obviously require changing the whole system, but in the end everything would be automatic. And if you fail...? That's the legal guardian part - he owns you. You have no money (because the bastards steals every penny), no gear, no ability to move around freely. If you escape - thugs come after you and bring you for reeducation. No escape.

 

As for exploration - as usual, you can buy few days of freedom. But you better think of some way to stash your shit, because once the freedom expires, you're still father's bitch. And of course your purpose is to bear his child.

Now why this is a better idea than paying with cash? Because father would functionally own the PC and the player would have to think outside of the box on how to accumulate funds/gear. Maybe persuade some good soul to keep an eye on your gear for access to PC's pussy...? Don't know. Also, player would be motivated, because the alternative is slavery. And not your usual slavery, where you can somehow run away. You can leave the house only when father allows it. If you're not back inside a certain time period - you're hunted down and reeducated. So the motivation is there, but the player still has to make concious decision to stay on father's good side. And that means progressing compromises. Also, it wouldn't be players decision to get limbless mother back. One day father could just decide that it's time for a next step in her education (let's say @ 50 submission?).

 

But it would be a lot of work to balance this whole shit out.

Edited May 16, 2022 by kapibar

[kapibar]

9 minutes ago, audhol said:

Futa's cant get pregnant? Also historicaly the way for a woman to gain power was to bear a son to a powerfull man.

Pregnant futa would require a giant stretch of imagination. Sometimes too much is too much. As for the power via procreation thing - I don't think there's any in-lore indication this is the case for Skyrim. So again, would require stretch or go directly against the lore. Actually in such scenario it is the PC who would be the assertive person who made her own way. It's hard to imagine she would submit to a girl who was more submissive.

[audhol]

3 minutes ago, kapibar said:

Pregnant futa would require a giant stretch of imagination.

Well a woman growing a giant penis and her mother living in a cage with no limbs that only comes out to service the dog requires a certain level of imagination already and I think in the SLS misogynistic world the only way for a woman to have power is to make use of a man. The whole premise of wartimes for an sls playthrough is to get the benefits of a home and city access by catering to the whims of a man.

[ucglow]

16 minutes ago, kapibar said:

  

I think rules are not a bad idea, but why this fucker would care about mother? Makes little sense from a character standpoint. If the old hag dies - he can just enslave the little bitch, not like it's outside of his MO. Then he could just torture her into submission. But this gave me an idea. Maybe we could change the whole concept of player's slavery. Actually, yours is pretty similar:

 

 

Now the player has to pay for mother's upkeep. What if the father proposed a different idea from the start? He will pay for mother's health, as long PC serves him. If she fails him, the mother will die and he will become PC's legal guardian. From now on, all the jobs PC performs for father generate favour instead of money (customers pay him, he does everything). PC is forbidden from having any cash on her, he also confiscates everything outside of YPS stuff and the clothes he gives her. Favours are the only currency that matters inside the mod. Want something to eat? Favours. Want devices removed? Favours. Want Licence? Favours. The rent also costs favours.

 

It would obviously require changing the whole system, but in the end everything would be automatic. And if you fail...? That's the legal guardian part - he owns you. You have no money (because the bastards steals every penny), no gear, no ability to move around freely. If you escape - thugs come after you and bring you for reeducation. No escape.

As for exploration - as usual, you can buy few days of freedom. But you better think of some way to stash your shit, because once the freedom expires, you're still father's bitch. Amd of course your purpose is to bear his child.

Now why this is a better idea than paying with cash? Because father would functionally own the PC and the player would have to think outside of the box on how to accumulate funds/gear. Maybe persuade some good soul to keep an eye on your gear for access to PC's pussy...? Don't know. Also, player would be motivated, because the alternative is slavery. And not your usual slavery, where you can somehow runaway. You can leave the house only when father allows it. If you're not back inside a certain time period - you're hunted down and reeducated. So the motivation is there, but the player still has to make concious decision to stay on father's good side. And that means progressing compromises. Also, it wouldn't be players decision to get limbless mother back. One day father could just decide that it's time for a next step in her education (let's say @ 50 submission?).

 

But it would be a lot of work to balance this whole shit out.

This definitely makes it more hardcore/interesting experience. I know for a fact stashing stuff is hard enough, plus it gives more incentive to be fathers pet.

+1

[kapibar]

7 minutes ago, audhol said:

Well a woman growing a giant penis and her mother living in a cage with no limbs that only comes out to service the dog requires a certain level of imagination already and I think in the SLS misogynistic world the only way for a woman to have power is to make use of a man. The whole premise of wartimes for an sls playthrough is to get the benefits of a home and city access by catering to the whims of a man.

But there's nothing that confirms the notion that bearing children equals power. There are still female adventurers, scholars and magicians. They may not be as powerful as their male counterparts, but I know for a fact that perks make the misogyny gap irrelevant. You're suggesting that SLS functions above Skyrim's logic, while in fact it only changes some of its aspects and its functionalities can be easily explained or overlooked. If benefits like home or access to the city would be this tempting inside SLS'd Skyrim, Mono wouldn't have to try this hard to make the whole plot so complicated. There would be no need for mother, the home would suffice. But it doesn't.

 

Don't get me wrong, I can accept stretching the limits imposed by the lore, but ignoring them altogether and playing by some made-up rules? Well, then it would be best to remove Skyrim altogether.

 

And about futa - like I said, there's a stretch of imagination and there's absurd. Think Disney Star Wars - there are Force abilities and there's "somehow Palpatine returned" or Mary Poppins Leia. In every stretch there's a breaking point. Pregnant futa is mine.

[Monoman1]

1 hour ago, leakim said:

Things @Monoman1 could consider related to mother:

I like a lot of these ideas. Little buffs from having Mother around. But again it suffers from the whole "you don't know you get them until you actually get mother back" thing. 

 

30 minutes ago, kapibar said:

But it would be a lot of work to balance this whole shit out.

It's an interesting idea but foresee problems (you know me!)

1. I'd imagine father is already your legal guardian by law being your father and all. 

2. Yes, probably even more massive overhaul of systems
3. System falls apart somewhat without SLS stash stealing basically making SLS all but hard requirement. Without SLS you can just stash all the gold/items you find in a barrel in Whiterun/on the ground outside/wherever. 

4. below

40 minutes ago, kapibar said:

But it would be a lot of work to balance this whole shit out.

 

 

37 minutes ago, kapibar said:

Pregnant futa would require a giant stretch of imagination.

It doesn't seem like you're interested in futa stuff anyway so just let it go? Like I've said, if it's in it'll definitely be optional anyway.

I don't know much about futa stuff, it's never been my thing, but my understanding is that they have both male/female reproductive systems anyway, no?

[leakim]

36 minutes ago, kapibar said:

  

I think rules are not a bad idea, but why this fucker would care about mother? Makes little sense from a character standpoint. If the old hag dies - he can just enslave the little bitch, not like it's outside of his MO. Then he could just torture her into submission. But this gave me an idea. Maybe we could change the whole concept of player's slavery. Actually, yours is pretty similar:

 

 

Now the player has to pay for mother's upkeep. What if the father proposed a different idea from the start? He will pay for mother's health, as long PC serves him. If she fails him, the mother will die and he will become PC's legal guardian. From now on, all the jobs PC performs for father generate favour instead of money (customers pay him, he does everything). PC is forbidden from having any cash on her, he also confiscates everything outside of YPS stuff and the clothes he gives her. Favours are the only currency that matters inside the mod. Want something to eat? Favours. Want devices removed? Favours. Want Licence? Favours. The rent also costs favours.

 

It would obviously require changing the whole system, but in the end everything would be automatic. And if you fail...? That's the legal guardian part - he owns you. You have no money (because the bastards steals every penny), no gear, no ability to move around freely. If you escape - thugs come after you and bring you for reeducation. No escape.

 

As for exploration - as usual, you can buy few days of freedom. But you better think of some way to stash your shit, because once the freedom expires, you're still father's bitch. And of course your purpose is to bear his child.

Now why this is a better idea than paying with cash? Because father would functionally own the PC and the player would have to think outside of the box on how to accumulate funds/gear. Maybe persuade some good soul to keep an eye on your gear for access to PC's pussy...? Don't know. Also, player would be motivated, because the alternative is slavery. And not your usual slavery, where you can somehow run away. You can leave the house only when father allows it. If you're not back inside a certain time period - you're hunted down and reeducated. So the motivation is there, but the player still has to make concious decision to stay on father's good side. And that means progressing compromises. Also, it wouldn't be players decision to get limbless mother back. One day father could just decide that it's time for a next step in her education (let's say @ 50 submission?).

 

But it would be a lot of work to balance this whole shit out.

 

LIke this idea a lot, although, as you say yourself, I think it would require quite a refactor of the existing content.

 

At this point I almost feel sorry for Monoman1. If he intends to implement even a fraction of all these ideas we wont see the next update this year ^^

 

Hopefully he will be able to scoop up the lowest hanging fruits that fit together.

[kapibar]

6 minutes ago, Monoman1 said:

1. I'd imagine father is already your legal guardian by law being your father and all.

It's quite vague if he's PC's actual father. I know you removed all the suggestions about him being stepfather, but it istn't exactly clear. And by "legal guardian" I mean your owner. Considering how many slavery mods are there, we can safely assume inside of LL Skyrim slavery is at least tolerated if not semi-legal.

 

9 minutes ago, Monoman1 said:

2. Yes, probably even more massive overhaul of systems

Yeah, that's what I suspected. I may not know much about modding, but I know a thing or two about economy.

 

11 minutes ago, Monoman1 said:

3. System falls apart somewhat without SLS stash stealing basically making SLS all but hard requirement. Without SLS you can just stash all the gold/items you find in a barrel in Whiterun/on the ground outside/wherever.

Half of the content requires SLS already. Fuck, I wasn't even aware it's NOT a hard requirement.

 

12 minutes ago, Monoman1 said:

It doesn't seem like you're interested in futa stuff anyway so just let it go?

Quite the opposite in fact. Like I told you when the idea was first dropped - I considered it a problematic implementation and not worth the trouble, considering there's not a shit ton of content that actually uses this mechanic. But WT is a different story altogether. I installed SLSO because of it (never used it earlier) and the content added has compensated me for the inconvenience. If you implement futa and make a compelling story around it - sure as shit I'll get back to the subject. I'm a sucker for sick ideas, and this one is as fucked up as they come. That's why I started this discussion in the first place - if I didn't give a fuck, I wouldn't said anything ?.

[leakim]

35 minutes ago, Monoman1 said:

I like a lot of these ideas. Little buffs from having Mother around. But again it suffers from the whole "you don't know you get them until you actually get mother back" thing. 

 

I get what you're saying. I think there is a fundamental thing you should change in relation to getting mother back:

• Frankly, getting mother back is already the objective from the start of the mod, so I do not believe you need a whole lot of additional motivation as long as there is some resemblense of relationship between her and the PC.
• It should be "easy" enough to get her back that you can enjoy a big part of the mod with her there. So maybe some consideration should be given to how hard it is to get her back. Make it easier. Or perhaps a natural part of the progression of the mod.
  • Perhaps it could instead tied to some level of submission/depravity by the PC.
  • Perhaps it could instead be a part of how the story is naturally developing rather than an active choice by the PC to pay the father.
• One of the biggest selling points of this mod is the slowly creeping corruption and this must not be sacrificed for this purpose, so perhaps getting mother back should no longer lead to immediate end-game sex progression and father wanting to get PC pregnant. 
  • Alternatively immediate "pregnancy" sex progression could be tied to other events that can only happen after mother is back. (For example finding sister or mother dying or something completely different)

 

Edited May 16, 2022 by leakim

[Monoman1]

Also... for father to play his hand so heavily, so early on in the mod would be weird...

"If your mother dies I own you..."

Father is a conniving serpent after all. 

Edited May 16, 2022 by Monoman1

[Kryona]

32 minutes ago, Monoman1 said:

I like a lot of these ideas. Little buffs from having Mother around. But again it suffers from the whole "you don't know you get them until you actually get mother back" thing. 

 

 

What if you added the buffs directly at the start of the game while the mother is still at home? So the player can see theyre there. And then when the mother is taken away and the mod really starts, theyre removed so that it becomes obvious if you want them back you need to get the mother back. Maybe hint at it too so that the player actually notices the buffs before theyre gone. Maybe you could utilize the diary that the PC reads at the very start for that and mention how the Mother has trained the player in certain skills in the past or makes her feel more secure or whatever buffs you want to add. And since the mother is taken away really quickly, having those buffs for a short time isnt really gamebreaking.

 

[kapibar]

9 minutes ago, Monoman1 said:

Also... for father to play his hand so heavily, so early on in the mod would be weird...

"If your mother dies I own you..."

That's why I used this specific phrasing - "if mother dies, I become your legal guardian". It's not like he's not implying stuff in the beginning - "grow your hair, should give me leverage". Or "this should keep that body of yours firm". Being a legal guardian sounds pretty tame in comparison.

Edited May 16, 2022 by kapibar

[leakim]

18 minutes ago, leakim said:

 

I get what you're saying. I think there is a fundamental thing you should change in relation to getting mother back:

• Frankly, getting mother back is already the objective from the start of the mod, so I do not believe you need a whole lot of additional motivation as long as there is some resemblense of relationship between her and the PC.
• It should be "easy" enough to get her back that you can enjoy a big part of the mod with her there. So maybe some consideration should be given to how hard it is to get her back. Make it easier. Or perhaps a natural part of the progression of the mod.
  • Perhaps it could instead tied to some level of submission/depravity by the PC.
  • Perhaps it could instead be a part of how the story is naturally developing rather than an active choice by the PC to pay the father.
• One of the biggest selling points of this mod is the slowly creeping corruption and this must not be sacrificed for this purpose, so perhaps getting mother back should no longer lead to immediate end-game sex progression and father wanting to get PC pregnant. 
  • Alternatively immediate "pregnancy" sex progression could be tied to other events that can only happen after mother is back. (For example finding sister or mother dying or something completely different)

 

 

Adding to my thoughts above:

• Perhaps paying for mothers cure should actually be a "dead end(!?)" rather than provide a positive outcome. Maybe father will just take the money and turn the house into an even bigger sex dungeon, for you, your mother and your sister. The only real way to get out of this your situation should be getting rid of father.
  • Unless you tie curing mother to actually killing father I do not believe it is going to be worth it or be very satisfying for the player. Curing mother and then just ending the quest is quite lacklustre.
  • On the other hand, father taking the gold you give him and using it against you is totally in-line with what father would do I think. 
  • Who knows? Perhaps it should only be possible to "develop" the idea of using the Dark Brotherhood to eliminate father after he has turned the house into a sex dungeon? (thereby requiring you to pay him in order to "complete" the mod)

I'll stop now. For now at least.