Paid mods and Bethesda announcement on the E3

[tlrd]

Are the assets for the DOOM stuff auto-downloaded  or did Beth actually keep there word about not auto-downloading things pretty much no one wants?

[Midnight19]

Another Goddamn Forced Update. i guess i have to play fallout 4 Offline.

[Celedhring]

I already set Fallout 4, Skyrim and Skyrim SE to "only update upon game start", set my update time to 5-6 AM (har har)  And set Steam to offline mode. 

 

And making a copy of my Fallout 4 game to a USB stick just in case because I just don't trust Bethe$da to get it right - at least the first time around especially considering their reputation for putting out buggy shit. 

 

 

 

 

[prinyo]

Bethesda has finally replied to the concern that all future CC updates will break the script extender and other mods:

 

"It is true that applications like script extender aren't officially supported, but we also recognize that there is a very dedicated subset of our players utilize this. If possible, we'd like to minimize the impact of regular patches."

[Wandering Starspawn]

"If possible, we'd like to minimize the impact of regular patches."

 

Thanks Bethesda   

[Captain Cobra]

"If possible, we'd like to minimize the impact of regular patches."

 

PR speak for "We know it'll break F4SE but we're going to do it anyways :^)"

[Ernest Lemmingway]

"...a very dedicated subset of our players that utilize this (Script Extender)."

 

In other words, Bethesda is saying that PC players aren't worthy of any further consideration and we can go fuck ourselves. They've got their cash cow in console players and apparently think their own mods are good enough to charge people for.  I have a minor bile duct obstruction ATM so it literally hurts to keep laughing like this.

[Celedhring]

Bethesda has finally replied to the concern that all future CC updates will break the script extender and other mods:

 

"It is true that applications like script extender aren't officially supported, but we also recognize that there is a very dedicated subset of our players utilize this. If possible, we'd like to minimize the impact of regular patches."

 

 

That comment is unintentionally hilarious in a tin eared PR BS sort of way. 

[prinyo]

Well, the same Bethesda representative promised that they will stop breaking load orders and stop pre-downloading the assets on the PC. Both are now fixed in the last patch. 

It took quite some time for them to respond to this concern so I believe they will try to stop or minimize the exe updates in the future.

This user is usually quite reliable. I think they are leaving all the nonsense and lies for Uncle Pete.

[KoolHndLuke]

Yeah. They don't need to "minimize the impact" of CC. They need to fucking NUKE IT already!! And not just CC, but any more ideas of theirs to monetize modding!! Lazy fucks are just cashing in on comm modders contract work as mini-dlcs or whatever they call it. When Beth/Zen finally tumbles I will point to this as their critical turning point. If Beth wants to save whats left of their integrity they need to distance themselves from this as much as possible. Think of the modding comm as the forest they were growing to later chop it down for the wood or the cow on a farm they were fattening up to make dinner.

[arpaschad]

looking at the thread where that quote  came from the only ones defending Beth's shitfest are the console gamers...

 

I wonder...

 

there's your market Beth!

 

FIGHTING!!!!

 

more than ever Beth is literally saying: "FUCK YOU PC GAMERS AND YOUR DIRTY MODS!!! WE WON'T WASTE RESOURCES FIXING SHIT LIKE SCRPT EXTENDER WHEN WE CAN JUST INVEST TIME IN MAKING THE CONSOLE JIMMIES BUY SHOVELWARE FROM US!! HAHAHAHAHHAHAHA!!! YOUR SALTY PC GAMING TEARS NOURISH US!!!"

[prinyo]

There are two different aspects of CC and they concern two different actors as far as I can understand.

 

1. Bethesda publisher - introducing low-effort high-price money grab in the form of microtransactions in a premium priced single player only game.  

What the publisher is interested in is the profit and even if the customer's reaction seems bad what they will look at is sales and hard numbers. Right now the upcoming VR ports of FO4 and Skyrim are been heavily preordered (and there are actually no benefits in preordering). The ratings of FO4 did suffer a lot, but the actual engagement did not. And people keep shouting that they want TES6. I said it earlier in this thread - I do believe we are in a situation similar to the spam and the pop-ups on the web - everybody hates them, but they actually do work. Right now Bethesda-publisher is gambling on the idea that the outcry will not actually damage sales and that there is a lot of customer good will to spend before it runs out.

 

2. Bethesda developer - The way CC was implemented meant it will never play nice with the mods ecosystem and will create problems regularly. Fixes that limit or remove the damage are quite welcome. 

 

As a programmer myself I don't see a point of blaming the developers for the decisions the managers made. If you want CC to disappear - do something that the suits can see and measure - stop playing the game, don't buy stuff, discourage others from buying Bethesda stuff until CC is gone... Everything else is just fighting with windmills.

[Jazzman]

That much on free speech when the truth starts hurting.

I'm outty.

[Ernest Lemmingway]

As a programmer myself I don't see a point of blaming the developers for the decisions the managers made. If you want CC to disappear - do something that the suits can see and measure - stop playing the game, don't buy stuff, discourage others from buying Bethesda stuff until CC is gone... Everything else is just fighting with windmills.

 

That's the core problem with the CC and Bethesda's antics in general. Too many people--console and PC players alike--will keep buying their products. Modders do have another avenue of attack: quit creating mods. Their games rely almost exclusively on player-made mods to stay/become interesting. If there are no mods, or no new mods, then their post-launch sales and their play rate on Steam will begin dropping like a stone. I know it's impossible to stop every modder, and plenty will disagree with this view, but it's a weakness of Bethesda games that could be taken advantage of to protest.

[Wandering Starspawn]

To stop modding is like cutting off the nose to spite the face. It'd be fine if we had a promised land to evacuate to but of course we don't. In any event Bethesda already has a stable of defectors ready to churn out CC content until the stars go cold so all the actual enthusiasts giving up wouldn't do anything but eliminate CC's "competition" and give it a mod monopoly.

 

And if Bethesda ever release another TES I suspect it will lack the level of support we've grown accustomed to and the (free) modding scene for it will be DOA anyway. For better or for worse Skyrim and FO4 is all we've got for the foreseeable future. I hope both communities stay the course and just try to ignore the CC...well as much as you can ignore something that breaks your exe every other week.

[Darkpig]

To stop modding is like cutting off the nose to spite the face. It'd be fine if we had a promised land to evacuate to but of course we don't. In any event Bethesda already has a stable of defectors ready to churn out CC content until the stars go cold so all the actual enthusiasts giving up wouldn't do anything but eliminate CC's "competition" and give it a mod monopoly.

 

And if Bethesda ever release another TES I suspect it will lack the level of support we've grown accustomed to and the (free) modding scene for it will be DOA anyway. For better or for worse Skyrim and FO4 is all we've got for the foreseeable future. I hope both communities stay the course and just try to ignore the CC...well as much as you can ignore something that breaks your exe every other week.

 

Thankfully Beth is only focusing on SE and FO4$. They haven't touched Oldrim for awhile, probably since they now have their Special Edition. I can't say for certain that they will continue to leave good enough alone but I know I will be playing the shit out of that for awhile. Bethesda won't have a modding monopoly so long as games can be hacked. There are plenty of good games out there that have a good modding community should I get bored of Skyrim. Knowledge is power and some of the best modders have gone off to create their own games even.

[Ernest Lemmingway]

I know.  I was putting the idea out there as one possibility since it's simply impossible to cut off the cash flow Bethesda will get from sheeple who buy their stuff regardless of how horrible it is and/or how greedy the company gets. Completely cutting off modding to protest is extreme, and the best we can hope for in truly hurting their mod-dependency is that they somehow make it too difficult to mod their games due to legal or technical hurdles.

 

Or by making mods that simply can't be used on consoles because they rely on third-party programs, are created as Master files, etc. It still strikes at the company's main source of income and could help drive home the message that PC players won't stand for getting shafted like this. I actually dislike antagonizing console players like that but I also feel they need to go through the same teething pains with mods that PC players did. Especially if the producer is the one causing the problems.

 

I still maintain the best way of giving Bethesda the big middle finger for paid mods and for their betrayal of PC players is for someone else to create a sandbox-style, open world RPG to compete with them. Unfortunately even I know that's easier said than done. Part of their success is that the CK has always been fairly intuitive and the attempts by other games to do the same has, to date, not been very successful.

[Wandering Starspawn]

All we can do now is enjoy this community while it lasts and reject everything Bethesda does and says. Unstoppable events have been set in motion and they'll succeed or fail regardless of what the modding community does. Every single thing Bethesda has done this generation has been highly disruptive to the community so its amazing to see anyone still defending their bullshit, or warming up to CC just because Beth predictably threw out some worthless token freebies. This broad tolerance for blatant corporate bullshittery is what led us to this preorder lootbox microtransaction paid mod paid online dystopia in the first place.

 

Focusing on crippling mods for consoles is pointless, consoles are inherently crippled in the first place which is why CC is so appealing to them. It's why it was made for them. But it's too late anyway, Bethesda gave them a taste of modding to get them hooked, it was all part of their plan. There will be no burgeoning console sister mod community, only the Creation Club. Now the only worthwhile interaction possible between our two communities is the swift banning of anyone who demands a console port except it's a little too late for quarantine, the damage was already done.

 

While this is all very unfortunate, as Darkpig said we still have Oldrim. Hell we still have SE and FO4 and a solution will be created if Beth keeps fucking with them. I think there's still a lot of life rattling around in these games and of course there are some supremely ambitious mod projects on the horizon so it's important not to let Beth disrupt and divide us any more than they already have.

 

Ignore the serpent and its whispers of "mod monetization" and just keep on building up this Eden.

[arpaschad]

yeah the thing is Oldrim is almost 7 years old, SE is just makeup applied to the old pig and FO4 is (IMHO) a failed attempt to bring back FO:NV or FO3's glory days and is now a hotpot of "experimental ideas" where CC shoves it's dick in it without any lube...

 

The only thing keeping me from playing oldrim are the sexmods and other SFW mods that tries to reanimate this old pig to perform a couple of new tricks...things like Beyond Bruma to name  a few...

 

people are getting tired from the old flame and I would be lying if not even one of the pundits here (or in any modding community site) wouldn't be pining for the "new stuff" even if it came from Beth...the new slut of Babylon...

 

not all things are looking green east of Eden...

[Guest]

yeah the thing is Oldrim is almost 7 years old, SE is just makeup applied to the old pig and FO4 is (IMHO) a failed attempt to bring back FO:NV or FO3's glory days and is now a hotpot of "experimental ideas" where CC shoves it's dick in it without any lube...

 

The only thing keeping me from playing oldrim are the sexmods and other SFW mods that tries to reanimate this old pig to perform a couple of new tricks...things like Beyond Bruma to name  a few...

 

people are getting tired from the old flame and I would be lying if not even one of the pundits here (or in any modding community site) wouldn't be pining for the "new stuff" even if it came from Beth...the new slut of Babylon...

 

not all things are looking green east of Eden...

 

[prinyo]

Using the anal sex analogy from the above post, I think FO4 and SSE are just fingers to prepare us for the first big game that will be released with microtransaction from day one. They know the idea is very unpopular and are using the old games to get customers prepared to accept it. This way the old games absorb the PR damages.

 

It is obvious Beth will persist with the attempt to solve the business problem that the longevity of the games presents. They have the most popular single player game on PC for ( 5 ) 6 years now. "So, what do we get from that?" - asks the suit at Zenimax. For now their business model is contrary to the built-in obsolescence approach that is so typical for the IT companies. They are experimenting and they are in fact listening to feedback and removing all problems that can be used to "legitimately" complain about CC. I'm quite pessimistic about all of this because I don't see an outcome that I really like - which is preserving the status quo.

[LukeDuke]

Bethesda has finally replied to the concern that all future CC updates will break the script extender and other mods:

 

"It is true that applications like script extender aren't officially supported, but we also recognize that there is a very dedicated subset of our players utilize this. If possible, we'd like to minimize the impact of regular patches."

Pfff.. If they would integrate it or expand overall default scripting, there would be no need for script extenders, especially when vanilla FO4 is much more ''stripped'' of many popular (and even vanilla!) scripts functions that Oldrim and even FNV had..

 

The same could be said about Unofficial Patches, Arthmoor (the main person working on unofficial patches for most Bugthesda's games) said that they have his approval to integrate it as an offcial update for Oldrim, SSE and FO4, but they won't (he said he talked to them last year about it..), too much work for them probably and it would be officialy admitting that their games are THAT bugged that current patch for Skyrim for example has millions of fixes in it..

 

They will rather make CC ''update'' (which does not fix a single problem within the game) and make more $ of it. 

 

While the real hard working people on multiple Unofficial Patches are releasing them for free... 

 

I would never buy any Beth's game if not for the Unofficial Patches, too many quests, gameplay, stability etc bugs to lose my nerves on it.

[Storms of Superior]

creationclub.bethesda.net:

 

Is Creation Club paid mods?

 

No. Mods will remain a free and open system where anyone can create and share what they’d like. Also, we won’t allow any existing mods to be retrofitted into Creation Club, it must all be original content. Most of the Creation Club content is created internally, some with external partners who have worked on our games, and some by external Creators. All the content is approved, curated, and taken through the full internal dev cycle; including localization, polishing, and testing. This also guarantees that all content works together. We’ve looked at many ways to do “paid mods”, and the problems outweigh the benefits. We’ve encountered many of those issues before. But, there’s a constant demand from our fans to add more official high quality content to our games, and while we are able to create a lot of it, we think many in our community have the talent to work directly with us and create some amazing new things.

 

 

------------------------------

Added:

 

You do NOT need credits to download MODS.

 

You do need credits to buy whatever from their new microtransaction's shop.

 

What they are doing is leaving the mods the way they are now and intending to sell curated and tested content.

 

So, judging by this, there should unofficial DLCs to buy.

 

[FauxFurry]

Don't you see? You've all been played from the beginning.

[arpaschad]

Meh...at least it's not obvious that what you were playing was using the same shit, different day...they were good enough to hide it back then...now with CC...they aren't even trying...it's daylight pederasty with onlookers...

 

It boils down to the consumer's willpower whether to buy the aforementioned new stuff or give the middle finger to it because as shown time and again, whenever a games developer releases a new trailer for a popular series showcasing "breakthrough technology" or other stuff "because it just works!" the hype is so high that all notions of the words "boycott" and "fuck__ (insert game developer here)" will be gone out the window...mark my words...

 

until then...let the guy from the chessclub bask in the shitstorm...