worik Posted August 15, 2020 Posted August 15, 2020 14 minutes ago, Darkpig said: Marvin? Is that why he is so depressed? ? .. do I want to think about that ? Will the answer be nice to me and feeling cozy ??
GrimReaper Posted August 16, 2020 Posted August 16, 2020 On 8/14/2020 at 6:52 AM, gregathit said: Right. Good luck in court with that one. A film with your hands around the neck shows intent to do harm. A knee on the neck could be interpreted as intent to pacify. But nice try. I never justified killing anyone so the point is irrelevant. As for him resisting, how do you know that if they would not have kept him that he would not have gone for their guns. The point is you don't baby violent criminals. Resisting arrest makes you a violent criminal and you have ZERO right to complain about shit that happens to you at that point. Clearly you have never been in a fight. Especially with someone larger and jacked up on drugs. It is VERY difficult to keep someone controlled under those circumstances. The vulcan grip is only effective in movies dude. The point is, if you choke someone with your hands with the intention to just pacify them - either due to missing knowledge that this is dangerous or due to the circumstances that didn't allow for any other technique - it wouldn't be murder. Would be difficult to prove in court but if you had say a recording of the whole deal, your actual intention would show as soon as the other person gets knocked out. If you don't loosen your grip on that person's neck, it's likely that you intent to kill them. If you let go, tie them up and then check on them, people would see that killing wasn't your intention, even if you ended up killing that person. And that's what will get the cop in question probably a 'guilty as charged' - he didn't stop when Floyd stopped struggling. He didn't stop when he was unconscious. He didn't stop until he was dead. On 8/14/2020 at 6:52 AM, gregathit said: We are going to have to disagree on this. At minimum 50 percent of his death is on him. Honestly I think it is more like 75 percent on him. He doesn't do drugs or attempt to pass of counterfeit money and then complies with officers and he is alive today. No one would have knelt on his neck if he was in the squad car. Play stupid games, win stupid prizes. I think you're confusing being stupid with being guilty. Floyd was tremendously stupid, but he didn't deserve to die for it. Since we consider human beings capable of moral actions, we judge people based on that. A lion killing someone isn't an evil lion because it's generally understood that a lion isn't capable of reason and understanding what's good and what's evil. While you could say someone wearing their valuable jewelry openly in a bad neighborhood is stupid, they're not guilty when they get robbed - the robber is the guilty party because the robber could have at any point decided that he shouldn't be doing that. The only one that's going to jail is the criminal, not the victim.
Darkpig Posted August 16, 2020 Posted August 16, 2020 On 8/14/2020 at 10:48 PM, KoolHndLuke said: Same animal with slightly different camouflage. At least with corporations you can be sure they're all about the money which makes them slightly easier to predict. Most peeps just want to be left the fuck alone to do their thing. Politicians are lying scum. As far as you know. The shit businesses do I don't even know where to begin. You need Car insurance to drive. Fuck those guys. Health insurance mega fuck those guys and their wishy washy bullshit. I want my insurance to cover medical care not a medical care you dumb fools. Foods? What the fuck even is high fructose corn syrup? Lazy farmers. So fuck those guys. Nobody wants to blame the working man(or lack thereof) because nobody wants to improve themselves so we blame paper pushing politicians. You want to call the Mafia predictable? They're a business. Lets get George Carlin on the scene shall we? Spoiler Also fuck politicians.
KoolHndLuke Posted August 16, 2020 Posted August 16, 2020 1 hour ago, Darkpig said: Also fuck politicians. You're right of course- it starts with the people. So then you ask why the people are like that. The answer: We've been lied to about everything from Santa to God, love, history, the media, equal opportunity, fair play, there's always a happy ending and good guys always win. We were told that we are the good guys because we fight for freedom when it's always to make a few people wealthier. All lies and nobody told us they were or they were written down in a book- we had to figure it all out the hard way. I'm not "woke", I'm cold sober and pretty fuckin pissed off cause the game was rigged from the start and only gets worse.
KoolHndLuke Posted August 16, 2020 Posted August 16, 2020 7 minutes ago, Alkpaz said: Doesn't really PMO as much as I thank myself for still using 3.2 of xEdit. Yeah...I'm not real thrilled with the changes ElminsterAU made in the newer versions and stick to the old ones. Things that work in the old versions don't in the new.
KoolHndLuke Posted August 16, 2020 Posted August 16, 2020 9 minutes ago, Alkpaz said: error in the checking process which is makes the new version pretty much useless. That seems suspect given that it works just fine in the older versions. huh?
KoolHndLuke Posted August 16, 2020 Posted August 16, 2020 7 minutes ago, Alkpaz said: Well it also has the horrible effect of people trying to troubleshoot their load orders and now having to ask "Did you check with x.x of xEdit?" You know the saying "If it ain't broke.........". Also noticed the donate pop-up message is on permanent display now that you can only disable for awhile. Have enough guilt to deal with, thank you.
Darkpig Posted August 16, 2020 Posted August 16, 2020 32 minutes ago, KoolHndLuke said: You're right of course- it starts with the people. So then you ask why the people are like that. The answer: We've been lied to about everything from Santa to God, love, equal opportunity, fair play, there's always a happy ending and good guys always win. We were told that we are the good guys because we fight for freedom. All lies. I'm not "woke", I'm cold sober and pretty fuckin pissed off cause the game was rigged from the start. Well of course I'm. Wait I'm right? Truth be told I think I like the Piss forum too much. I was thinking it would be interesting to call it the urinal forum but that will never catch on and I think we'd alienate half the human population. What am I getting at here? I thought for sure someone would correct me about the car insurance and yet I won't care because I don't take the car haha! So what then? Are we going to make soap now? Okay fine I'm outta piss. Peace but peace as in v for victory woo!@
KoolHndLuke Posted August 16, 2020 Posted August 16, 2020 49 minutes ago, Darkpig said: Are we going to make soap now? Blowing shit up is ever so much fun. I bet a lot of those police secretly wished they were launching explosives into those riots instead of tear gas. *Oops*
B10HAZARD. Posted August 16, 2020 Posted August 16, 2020 What pisses me off is the non stop talking and bullshit revolving around a dead fuckwit called Floyd. ...on and on and on it goes. The police bodycam footage speaks for itself. That youtube video that @GrimReaper posted by Donut operator was from may, before we knew what really happened. Again, the cops knee to the (back) of the fuckwits neck was what they are trained to do. It does (not) stop you from breathing. People please ffs enough already. Talking about it just gives BLM marxist scumbags exactly what they want. Holl 16 08 2020...adition- anyone still saying that the police were abusing him because he was black is also a fuckwit.
GrimReaper Posted August 16, 2020 Posted August 16, 2020 At this point I wouldn't be surprised if people would stab themselves to death just to be contrarian if BLM said 'don't stab yourself'. You can say that the police needs a reform because police brutality is a problem, you can say that the killing of Floyd was wrong without magically agreeing to everything BLM stands for. Disagreeing with something solely because someone you don't like said it is the pinnacle of stupid. Did you know that communists and nazis also ate bread? Better stop doing that.
Mr. Otaku Posted August 16, 2020 Posted August 16, 2020 1 hour ago, GrimReaper said: killing of Floyd He died primarily due to high drug usage prior to that incident, the neck thing was cruel but that's not what killed him. He would've died on his own anyway on top of the fact that he was about to drive away, high as a kite, in a giant car. Who knows, maybe he would've caused an accident killing someone else too.
DoctaSax Posted August 16, 2020 Posted August 16, 2020 If the coroner rules it a homicide by asphyxiation, it usually is.
Kendo 2 Posted August 16, 2020 Posted August 16, 2020 59 minutes ago, DoctaSax said: If the coroner rules it a homicide by asphyxiation, it usually is. The initial coroner lied about the cause of death, hence the narrative falling apart.
GrimReaper Posted August 16, 2020 Posted August 16, 2020 3 hours ago, Mr.Otaku said: He died primarily due to high drug usage prior to that incident, the neck thing was cruel but that's not what killed him. He would've died on his own anyway on top of the fact that he was about to drive away, high as a kite, in a giant car. Who knows, maybe he would've caused an accident killing someone else too. Contributing factors ≠ cause of death. Both autopsies eventually came to the conclusion that it was homicide. The second one that was done privately was pretty much worthless because an autopsy is a very invasive process, so a second one will have to work with an already broken and cut up body.
KoolHndLuke Posted August 17, 2020 Posted August 17, 2020 If you're talking about murder, there are degrees of it (homicide). The laws are pretty clear on this. First-degree murder Any intentional murder that is willful and premeditated with malice aforethought. Felony murder, a charge that may be filed against a defendant who is involved in a dangerous crime where a death results from the crime, Second-degree murder Any intentional murder with malice aforethought, but is not premeditated or planned in advance. Voluntary manslaughter Sometimes called a crime of passion murder, is any intentional killing that involves no prior intent to kill, and which was committed under such circumstances that would "cause a reasonable person to become emotionally or mentally disturbed". Both this and second-degree murder are committed on the spot under a spur-of-the-moment choice, but the two differ in the magnitude of the circumstances surrounding the crime. For example, a bar fight that results in death would ordinarily constitute second-degree murder. If that same bar fight stemmed from a discovery of infidelity, however, it may be voluntary manslaughter. Involuntary manslaughter A killing that stems from a lack of intention to cause death but involving an intentional or negligent act leading to death. A drunk driving–related death is typically involuntary manslaughter (see also vehicular homicide, causing death by dangerous driving, gross negligence manslaughter and causing death by criminal negligence for international equivalents). Note that the "unintentional" element here refers to the lack of intent to bring about the death. All three crimes above feature an intent to kill, whereas involuntary manslaughter is "unintentional", because the killer did not intend for a death to result from their intentional actions. If there is a presence of intention it relates only to the intent to cause a violent act which brings about the death, but not an intention to bring about the death itself. Under this definition, he would get voluntary manslaughter at most. Don't see what the point of this is though since everything happening now has damn little to do with it even if some say it does. If they go all out and charge him with 1st degree murder, it would set a dangerous precedent that means if enough people cry out about a crime, they effectively render the law meaningless and replace it with a sort of mob justice. Maybe they're pushing because they sense the weak position of the state in all this.
GrimReaper Posted August 17, 2020 Posted August 17, 2020 13 minutes ago, KoolHndLuke said: If you're talking about murder, there are degrees of it (homicide). The laws are pretty clear on this. Under this definition, he would get voluntary manslaughter at most. Don't see what the point of this is though since everything happening now has damn little to do with it even if some say it does. If they go all out and charge him with 1st degree murder, it would set a dangerous precedent that means if enough people cry out about a crime, they effectively render the law meaningless. There wasn't really anything passionate about the whole situation, though. He has been charged with unintentional 2nd degree murder which would probably net him around 12.5 years of jail.
FauxFurry Posted August 17, 2020 Posted August 17, 2020 On 8/14/2020 at 2:20 PM, Mr.Otaku said: That's what you fockin get for using shit OS m8, everybody knows that TempleOS is the only good and practical OS in existence. When choosing an operating system fro a PC, the only thing in the room that I want to glow in the dark is the monitor itself.
KoolHndLuke Posted August 17, 2020 Posted August 17, 2020 27 minutes ago, GrimReaper said: unintentional 2nd degree murder Fucking lawyer terms. Artificial escalation of charges to appease the crowds and still basically the same thing. Done with this one, thanks.
GrimReaper Posted August 17, 2020 Posted August 17, 2020 17 minutes ago, KoolHndLuke said: Fucking lawyer terms. Artificial escalation of charges to appease the crowds and still basically the same thing. Done with this one, thanks. >Claim that charging him with 1st degree murder would set a dangerous precedent because that wouldn't be according to law >Get told that he got charged with 2nd degree murder because voluntary manslaughter needs an element of heated passion, such as a fight stemming from the discovery of infidelity so everything is according to the law >REEEEEE FUCKING LAWYERS ok
KoolHndLuke Posted August 17, 2020 Posted August 17, 2020 1 hour ago, GrimReaper said: >Claim that charging him with 1st degree murder would set a dangerous precedent because that wouldn't be according to law >Get told that he got charged with 2nd degree murder because voluntary manslaughter needs an element of heated passion, such as a fight stemming from the discovery of infidelity so everything is according to the law >REEEEEE FUCKING LAWYERS ok > Don't need to state the obvious (i.e. not a lawyer) > See the move as a way to introduce 'probable' or 'likely' intent suggesting we are mind readers > Where one court may uphold that ruling, another might dismiss it out of hand (while laughing heartily at the mere notion in private) > Good luck making that stick
Darkpig Posted August 17, 2020 Posted August 17, 2020 12 hours ago, KoolHndLuke said: Blowing shit up is ever so much fun. I bet a lot of those police secretly wished they were launching explosives into those riots instead of tear gas. *Oops* If we're talking about fireworks, there will be plenty of noise complaints coming from the neighbors. I'm in.
gregathit Posted August 17, 2020 Posted August 17, 2020 15 hours ago, GrimReaper said: The point is, if you choke someone with your hands with the intention to just pacify them - either due to missing knowledge that this is dangerous or due to the circumstances that didn't allow for any other technique - it wouldn't be murder. Would be difficult to prove in court but if you had say a recording of the whole deal, your actual intention would show as soon as the other person gets knocked out. If you don't loosen your grip on that person's neck, it's likely that you intent to kill them. If you let go, tie them up and then check on them, people would see that killing wasn't your intention, even if you ended up killing that person. You are missing the point, which seems incredibly difficult to me, but whatever. The point was and is, if you have your hands around someones neck, there is no question YOU ARE CHOKING THEM. If you have your knee on their neck, it doesn't mean necessarily that you are choking them. It is not a given. How in the hell is this not obvious. How does the cop know that Floyd is dying? How does he know that he is dead? At what point does he die? Did it take the full 8 minutes or just 4? You don't fucking know and neither do I. 15 hours ago, GrimReaper said: And that's what will get the cop in question probably a 'guilty as charged' - he didn't stop when Floyd stopped struggling. He didn't stop when he was unconscious. He didn't stop until he was dead. Again, you are assuming the cop KNEW he was suffocating. I said it before and I'll say it again, good luck, that will be VERY difficult to prove. He may have just figured the guy finally calmed down. 15 hours ago, GrimReaper said: I think you're confusing being stupid with being guilty. Floyd was tremendously stupid, but he didn't deserve to die for it. Since we consider human beings capable of moral actions, we judge people based on that. A lion killing someone isn't an evil lion because it's generally understood that a lion isn't capable of reason and understanding what's good and what's evil. While you could say someone wearing their valuable jewelry openly in a bad neighborhood is stupid, they're not guilty when they get robbed - the robber is the guilty party because the robber could have at any point decided that he shouldn't be doing that. The only one that's going to jail is the criminal, not the victim. Nope. Floyd is both GUILTY and STUPID. No confusion there at all. Took drugs - Guilty. Passed counterfeit money - Guilty. Fought police/resisted arrest - Guilty. Refused to get in the police car - Guilty. Has lived a life FULL of CRIME - Guilty. No one disputes ANY of these things. No one disputes Floyd was STUPID. Floyd WAS A CRIMINAL. PERIOD. This is not some innocent person here. This is a JUNKIE that committed suicide by cop. And DO NOT FUCKING DARE to excuse his actions as somehow justified because of some BULLSHIT diatribe about animals. FUCK that bullshit. 75 percent is Floyd's FAULT. He behaves like a decent human being instead of the gutter trash that he was and he would NEVER have had a run in with the police. Arguing with this is being nothing more than a crime apologist.
gregathit Posted August 17, 2020 Posted August 17, 2020 9 hours ago, GrimReaper said: At this point I wouldn't be surprised if people would stab themselves to death just to be contrarian if BLM said 'don't stab yourself'. You can say that the police needs a reform because police brutality is a problem, you can say that the killing of Floyd was wrong without magically agreeing to everything BLM stands for. Disagreeing with something solely because someone you don't like said it is the pinnacle of stupid. Did you know that communists and nazis also ate bread? Better stop doing that. You need to stop. Seriously. You want to know what REAL problems are: CRIME. MURDER. LOOTING. THEFT. POVERTY. DRUGS. These are real problems. More are effected EVERY HOUR OF EVERY DAY by each of these things than police brutality occurs in a whole year. Get some fucking statics or STFU. I'm sick to death of people parroting some fuckwit who farted in a elevator, had an epiphany and said, police brutality! Yea, that is what we need to complain about. Go back and message doughnut operator and ask him if police brutality is an actual thing. Ask him how many times it occurs in a year. You won't like the answer because your entire fucking narrative will disappear. You are more likely to be struck and killed by lightning than to suffer police brutality. FACT. So what the fuck are you bitching about? Lightning? Farts in elevators? Oh, and take your own advice lest you end up being a resident at that pinnacle of stupid.
Mr. Otaku Posted August 17, 2020 Posted August 17, 2020 3 hours ago, GrimReaper said: Contributing factors ≠ cause of death How does that work? Are you selectively trimming out the severity of his drug usage? Why? Yes the cop conducted himself very poorly and it was a cruel display but that's not what killed him, and we know it from the simple fact that he died due to cardiac arrest caused by the high amount of drugs in his system already. This is reinforced by the fact that he was saying "i can't breathe" well before he was even laid down. he was practically wrestling with the police when they tried to detain him which only made his treatment more harsh as a result, that's an escalation he caused. On top of that he was about to drive in that condition had the police not shown up, what if he had killed a someone? These things cannot be ignored and dismissed like that, so i don't know why you're so hellbent on doing exactly that.
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