Deviously Cursed Loot LE 9.0 (2021-03-09)

[Tyrant99]

@Kimy

 

As DCUR has various key-loss mechanics - Shaky Hands, Devious Traps, and some others - I have a small suggestion on how to remove a small exploit and coax Players into using the intended mechanics:

 

One thing that can be done for instance in the Damsel in Distress Quest is to simply not pick up keys. For instance, if the Player finds a Head Restraints Key while their arms are still bound, it isn't usable yet, so the Player could simply not pick it up. - As the Vanilla respawn time for containers is quite long, the Player can continue to find Hand Restraint Keys, then come back later and safely grab the now usable Head Restraints Key that they left in the container. This somewhat minimizes the 'risk' factor of other key-loss mechanics.

 

A possible solution would be to have a repeatable Quest with Optional Container Aliases that fill in Loaded Area on Conditions: ObjectTypeContainer, GetItemCount DeviousKey > 0 etc. - Then the Quest Starts / Stops on a RegisterForUpdateGameTime loop, .5 hours or 1 hour (doesn't poll too often, could be limited to if certain Quests are running etc.), - and then have a simple script to remove the keys from containers if/when the Aliases fill.

 

This way, the keys get cleared out of nearby containers much faster than the Vanilla 'reset times', and Players would then be highly motivated to pick them up, putting themselves at the mercy of other DCUR key-loss mechanics.

 

Of course, this could also wipe out other Player Key-Stashes, say if they had one in their Player Home etc. - So could be toggleable MCM ie.: 'Disable Key Stashes!'

[Reesewow]

38 minutes ago, Tyrant99 said:

As DCUR has various key-loss mechanics - Shaky Hands, Devious Traps, and some others - I have a small suggestion on how to remove a small exploit and coax Players into using the intended mechanics:

 

One thing that can be done for instance in the Damsel in Distress Quest is to simply not pick up keys. For instance, if the Player finds a Head Restraints Key while their arms are still bound, it isn't usable yet, so the Player could simply not pick it up. - As the Vanilla respawn time for containers is quite long, the Player can continue to find Hand Restraint Keys, then come back later and safely grab the now usable Head Restraints Key that they left in the container. This somewhat minimizes the 'risk' factor of other key-loss mechanics.

 

I do think a mechanic like this could be a good addition to keys generated from pickpocketing in particular.  I've noticed that if I get stuck in particularly Devious items I tend to go the nearest Inn and try to get the item off legit through pickpocketing and solicitation.  However, since I don't want to attempt to pickpocket a key I don't need and risk a bounty, the NPCs in these locations have a tendency to start accumulating the more unique key types and will still have those keys when I come back many in-game days later.  If the act of pickpocketing an NPC despawned existing generic DD keys before the roll to decide if they have a key or not, it would probably clear up this minor issue.

 

I'm not sure if I'd like a scan that cleared container inventories however, as I think that would conflict with players that specifically turn off many of the key-drop options such as myself.  My main player home is where I deposit any excess keys I find in-game, which I can only find while bound, so going back home has become my "legit way out" as long as I still have keys left.  I personally prefer to keep my drop rates low and key loss on trap trigger high, but have shaky hands disabled.  Of course, if the scan is optional and turned on via MCM menu, by all means more escape control options are good.

[Tyrant99]

11 minutes ago, Reesewow said:

I do think a mechanic like this could be a good addition to keys generated from pickpocketing in particular.  I've noticed that if I get stuck in particularly Devious items I tend to go the nearest Inn and try to get the item off legit through pickpocketing and solicitation.  However, since I don't want to attempt to pickpocket a key I don't need and risk a bounty, the NPCs in these locations have a tendency to start accumulating the more unique key types and will still have those keys when I come back many in-game days later.  If the act of pickpocketing an NPC despawned existing generic DD keys before the roll to decide if they have a key or not, it would probably clear up this minor issue.

It could certainly be extended to NPCs (certain could be excluded such as Followers / Keyholders), would probably need another AliasFill type for dead bodies as well.

 

But yes I agree, there can start to be an abundance of not-picked-up / looted keys all over the place, and it can trivialize the 'bondage predicament'.

 

12 minutes ago, Reesewow said:

I'm not sure if I'd like a scan that cleared container inventories however, as I think that would conflict with players that specifically turn off many of the key-drop options such as myself.  My main player home is where I deposit any excess keys I find in-game, which I can only find while bound, so going back home has become my "legit way out" as long as I still have keys left.  I personally prefer to keep my drop rates low and key loss on trap trigger high, but have shaky hands disabled.  Of course, if the scan is optional and turned on via MCM menu, by all means more escape control options are good.

One easy way around this it occured to me would be to filter the Aliases with IsInMyOwnedCell == 0 Condition. So if the Key-Stash is in the Player's house, it would be safe, but other non-player-owned containers out in the world would get their keys cleaned out.

[SkyAddiction]

Honestly, I think key-drop is fine as-is. DCL's ridiculous flexibility is its core, and Kimy has been saying for a while that she's pushing the limits of DCL's MCM.

 

DCL is my balancing mod. I use it mostly for the built-in combat surrender as well as a moderator for other mods that use DD devices, with the occasional cursed loot event to toss a spanner into the works of a given game. It also generally adds to my "Skyrim is dangerous" theme. Some good examples are DDi 4.1 beta MCM changes. Now that key break is back, I have it set to punishing levels to simulate makeshift keys and unknown lock mechanisms with the barest minimum escape cooldown. Struggle difficulty is default. I had to correspondingly increase key drop, then decrease shaky hands and cursed loot event settings to levels that would've been insane before. I have well over one hundred keys, but devices can easily eat ten or so before being removed.

 

The point is it feels right for the theme I have set, and it's DDi and DCL that control how all DD-capable mods I have enabled tend to function. If people are gaming the systems they have in place, then they need to use the MCMs to make those systems better fit their vision for what these mods are supposed to be doing for them.

[shadowwolf2k7]

@Kimy

 

got a question. after unlocking the bound girls, what is set up for them to do, are they suppose to leave or just stand around the city/inn you freed them in? if they are suppose to leave is it possible to make it that they head for the nearest loading door, and after going through that door they dont spawn on the other side ie, if they are in an inn and you follow them through the door you wouldnt see them. or if they are standing outside in the city they exit through the main gate and wont be seen when you load the exterior area around the city.

 

i also have an idea for when you are letting sasha be in control. while in a city she could go for a walk around the city looking at the stalls there and she would walk you with some sort of leash mechanic where if she is walking between stalls you wouldnt have control, when she stopped you would move a bit on your own. if you moved to far away from her she would be allowed to punish you. if you stood next to her and didnt wander, she could reward you, by turning on, if belted, the plugs on the lowest setting.

[Lupine00]

Funny how the same questions about bound girls come up over and over... You might get to thinking that it's partially because they default to on (with a high limit), that lowering the limit can appear to do nothing, and that even if you do it early, you can sometimes find places with more girls than the limit ought to allow. I've also found sometimes they don't despawn after talking, even if you go away and come back. Definitely the same girl, not a respawn. It's not enough just to talk, and I'm not convinced that the "I don't have your key" dialogue causes them to despawn. Possibly, you have to free them, rape them or rob them to get them to despawn? (I'm not able to check the code right now).

 

 

I've been using an old mod called Devious Traps (WIP), some here may have used it.

It makes a nice supplement to completely random DCL cursed loot.

 

There's an element of skill to DTraps that makes it very appropriate for a game like Skyrim. Sure, it's not as much skill as it could have been, but it's something.

The traps look like 'rune' spells, but better hidden. Some are on walls, or around corners. One or two are too close to doors to be fair.

 

The downsides to DTraps are that it doesn't cover a lot of places, and it doesn't do key removal at all.

Plus, you need DCL, Devious Followers, Devious Helpers, or something, to give you a practical means of escape from so many traps.

 

DCL already has the infrastructure already to add something like DT, but perhaps better, and more up-to-date.

It would be a nice supplement to the way DCL works, having to spot/learn some trap locations rather than just worrying about your arousal, and the risk/reward on opening any container. DTraps can get you, even if you chicken out and never open a container.

 

I recommend trying it out, but its inability to destroy keys really nerfs the hazard it poses in a DCL environment.

 

I imagine a DCL version of it, with the same kind of traps, better positioned, in more dungeons, and maybe even around bandit camps, with optional key removal, and not just traps that add devices but also traps that cause rapes or Chaurus/Spider rapes.

[DonQuiWho]

@Kimy

 

Really not sure if this should be asked here or in DD threads, so please bear with me if I'm wrong bringing it up here

 

1 - Is there any way that a follower wearing DD items that prevent a player from using a weapon can be similarly precluded from doing so?

 

It's weird that when using mods such as Turbonerd's Helpers etc, that followers, rightly, can't help you with your release when their own hands are tied, but they can still run about slaughtering everything in sight.  So is there any simplish way that followers with such worn restraints can be stopped from participating in combat until the player manages to take them off?  I could probably get the effect by setting them to 'No Combat' temporarily in AFT, but that would be an awful lot of messing about... (but if it can be switched 'on' and 'off' there, can other mods do likewise on a temp basis?

 

2 - If this is the wrong thread to ask, being more of a generic thing than any specific mod issue, should I be asking on the DDi4 development thread?

 

TIA

[LazyBoot]

17 minutes ago, donkeywho said:

Is there any way that a follower wearing DD items that prevent a player from using a weapon can be similarly precluded from doing so?

They used to be blocked from this back in DD3, though you just reminded me that I haven't tested if the new code they put into DD4.1 to fix animations on NPCs also fixes this issue yet.

 

18 minutes ago, donkeywho said:

If this is the wrong thread to ask, being more of a generic thing than any specific mod issue, should I be asking on the DDi4 development thread?

I'd say that since it's a DD feature, it does probably belong in the DD dev thread. Assuming the feature is missing from the beta versions.

[DonQuiWho]

4 hours ago, LazyBoot said:

They used to be blocked from this back in DD3, though you just reminded me that I haven't tested if the new code they put into DD4.1 to fix animations on NPCs also fixes this issue yet.

 

I'd say that since it's a DD feature, it does probably belong in the DD dev thread. Assuming the feature is missing from the beta versions.

Thanks very much

 

Now dealt with @

 

https://www.loverslab.com/topic/69936-devious-devices-framework-developmentbeta/?do=findComment&comment=2232558

[Kimy]

5 hours ago, Lupine00 said:

Funny how the same questions about bound girls come up over and over... You might get to thinking that it's partially because they default to on (with a high limit), that lowering the limit can appear to do nothing, and that even if you do it early, you can sometimes find places with more girls than the limit ought to allow. I've also found sometimes they don't despawn after talking, even if you go away and come back. Definitely the same girl, not a respawn. It's not enough just to talk, and I'm not convinced that the "I don't have your key" dialogue causes them to despawn. Possibly, you have to free them, rape them or rob them to get them to despawn? (I'm not able to check the code right now).

 

 

I've been using an old mod called Devious Traps (WIP), some here may have used it.

It makes a nice supplement to completely random DCL cursed loot.

 

There's an element of skill to DTraps that makes it very appropriate for a game like Skyrim. Sure, it's not as much skill as it could have been, but it's something.

The traps look like 'rune' spells, but better hidden. Some are on walls, or around corners. One or two are too close to doors to be fair.

 

The downsides to DTraps are that it doesn't cover a lot of places, and it doesn't do key removal at all.

Plus, you need DCL, Devious Followers, Devious Helpers, or something, to give you a practical means of escape from so many traps.

 

DCL already has the infrastructure already to add something like DT, but perhaps better, and more up-to-date.

It would be a nice supplement to the way DCL works, having to spot/learn some trap locations rather than just worrying about your arousal, and the risk/reward on opening any container. DTraps can get you, even if you chicken out and never open a container.

 

I recommend trying it out, but its inability to destroy keys really nerfs the hazard it poses in a DCL environment.

 

I imagine a DCL version of it, with the same kind of traps, better positioned, in more dungeons, and maybe even around bandit camps, with optional key removal, and not just traps that add devices but also traps that cause rapes or Chaurus/Spider rapes.

I would have added cursed traps a long, long while ago, if Beth didn't chose to implement the traps the way they did. Unlike with containers, or bodies, there is no way to hook into vanilla traps without altering their base scripts. And that's something I didn't want to do - everything DCL does, it achieves without making changes to any vanilla resources. Devious Traps's author felt the same way about making changes to base resources, which is why its traps are all -custom- made. Every single one of them is hand placed.

 

And that's just a LOT of work.

[darkfender666]

I have this old bug:

I recently installed a mod that demands to shut down cursed loot for a short period of time, but when i try to reactivate it via mcm it doesn t reactivate.

If i go back to mcm is still deactivated.....this happened even in old versions but i never had to shut down the mod

Any idea?

 

[Mart0206]

Hello folks, hello Kimy.

 

i´ve encounterd a strange behaviour at the Bound giirls. If they had equiped an armbinder, the animation of the arms getting attached on the back inside the armbinder is not shown. Instead, both arms are "free" and invisible till the part you can see, if both arms ware inside the armbindet. Also if an idle is played, for example a drinking or clapping animation an the in, the npc will perform the animation with their arms. But usually, they shouldn´t be able to do that.

 

So i equiped an armbinder on my player character, and i have the same problem. Like the animation is missing. Should i run FNIS again? It worked before and the only thing i´ve changed in the last days were to clear my "suspressed animation lis" in Selxlab an register some new animations, but that should have no affect on those "Bound Animations" or am i wrong?

[qawsedrftg765]

Hiiii Kimy,

 

with Sasha as a dominant follower, when you ask her to let you use your arms in cities, she equips a 'punishment hobble dress' on you. Just wondering if that could be a normal hobble dress? As there is no way to ask her to put back on the yoke so you can go anywhere with any meaningful haste !

 

It kind of really stops the flow of the game,

 

"i really do want to make some potions, but I also want to be able to make it to the next cave before I grow old and grey"... decisions, decisions.

 

 

tyty

2 hours ago, Mart0206 said:

Hello folks, hello Kimy.

 

 

 

So i equiped an armbinder on my player character, and i have the same problem. Like the animation is missing. Should i run FNIS again? It worked before and the only thing i´ve changed in the last days were to clear my "suspressed animation lis" in Selxlab an register some new animations, but that should have no affect on those "Bound Animations" or am i wrong?

 

 

I think that is a DDi 4.0 issue. I have the same problem, there are some fixes going in DDi 4.1

[Lupine00]

14 hours ago, Kimy said:

I would have added cursed traps a long, long while ago, if Beth didn't chose to implement the traps the way they did. Unlike with containers, or bodies, there is no way to hook into vanilla traps without altering their base scripts. And that's something I didn't want to do - everything DCL does, it achieves without making changes to any vanilla resources. Devious Traps's author felt the same way about making changes to base resources, which is why its traps are all -custom- made. Every single one of them is hand placed.

 

And that's just a LOT of work.

I don't doubt it. It's likely why DT only covers a few dungeons, and was ultimately abandoned.

 

Changing vanilla traps wouldn't make a lot of sense anyway. A spiked swinging gate just doesn't shout "it ties you up in bondage" in an intuitive or immersive way. Nor do swinging blades or holes that spout fire or poison arrows.

 

DT's approach made sense, but it surely was labour intensive, and some of the spots it used definitely could use some ... refinement.

 

 

If I had infinite time, I'd probably take a look at patching DT so it depends on DCL and triggers DCL events instead of its own traps, which would bring key loss etc along "for free".

 

 

I was wondering though... Is there a way a similar effect could be achieved in code?

Is there some object that appears in all the places you might want a trap, that could be modified to spawn a trap object in response to an event?

 

Two things that spring to mind, chests, and dead bodies. But DCL can already trap these... Yes. It can, but what makes DT different is that you don't have to loot anything, and there's a warning clue, and you can disable the trap if you take care.

 

DCL has to let you open the container because it's entirely driven by the events that fire when you do so. A DCL trap can't fire before you open something, or if you never open something.

 

I can see some strange ways to do this. Skyrim made a "machine" that can search out certain kinds of objects and position itself at them - NPCs. NPCs aren't cheap, but three or four extra in a cell is fine. This invisible NPC is friendly to everything, has a tiny collision, an empty visible name, and can spawn randomly in place of a normal NPC. The first thing it does is spawns a normal baddie to replace the baddie that it took the place of. Then, it hunts the dungeon for a trap point - a container, a corpse, a bag of coins, loose potions sitting on a shelf - as long as it works with a search package. Then it runs there, spawns a DT style trap object, then despawns itself. It can't place traps if the player is close by and looking at it, in that case, probably tries to find a new location.

 

You have to count the number of traps spawned in a cell, and how many have gone off, so if there are enough traps already, the trap makers simply despawn themselves instead of searching for a spot to trap. Search is costly, but the game is built to manage it gracefully, so it shouldn't be particularly script heavy.

 

It sounds like a crazy way to do things, but it's certainly possible. More a thought experiment than anything I guess.

[Exutahl]

Rubber arrears is bugged in that the debtor when found just stays still instead of following along/moving towards the doll maker

[Lupine00]

3 hours ago, qawsedrftg765 said:

with Sasha as a dominant follower, when you ask her to let you use your arms in cities, she equips a 'punishment hobble dress' on you. Just wondering if that could be a normal hobble dress? As there is no way to ask her to put back on the yoke so you can go anywhere with any meaningful haste !

 

It kind of really stops the flow of the game,

 

This has been mentioned several times, and asked for in various ways.

I think some people wanted her to remove the dress and put the yoke back on, both on request, and automatically on leaving the city.

There may also have been an issue with the yoke not getting removed outside cities that caused some people problems.

 

I'm guessing Kimy has planned some kind of improvement for this situation, as it's been raised quite a bit?

 

Possibly, if you like Sasha, then Devious Followers gets you deeper down that rabbit hole.

DF has a tight focus on making all followers want to tie you up, but it has the downside that it's cash oriented not relationship oriented.

 

Sasha is relationship oriented, so personally, I'd love to see that enhanced, perhaps even with Sasha specific quests that modify her functionality.

[LazyBoot]

6 hours ago, Lupine00 said:

I don't doubt it. It's likely why DT only covers a few dungeons, and was ultimately abandoned.

 

Changing vanilla traps wouldn't make a lot of sense anyway. A spiked swinging gate just doesn't shout "it ties you up in bondage" in an intuitive or immersive way. Nor do swinging blades or holes that spout fire or poison arrows.

 

DT's approach made sense, but it surely was labour intensive, and some of the spots it used definitely could use some ... refinement.

 

 

If I had infinite time, I'd probably take a look at patching DT so it depends on DCL and triggers DCL events instead of its own traps, which would bring key loss etc along "for free".

 

 

I was wondering though... Is there a way a similar effect could be achieved in code?

Is there some object that appears in all the places you might want a trap, that could be modified to spawn a trap object in response to an event?

 

Two things that spring to mind, chests, and dead bodies. But DCL can already trap these... Yes. It can, but what makes DT different is that you don't have to loot anything, and there's a warning clue, and you can disable the trap if you take care.

 

DCL has to let you open the container because it's entirely driven by the events that fire when you do so. A DCL trap can't fire before you open something, or if you never open something.

 

Have you looked at https://www.loverslab.com/files/file/3439-wip-traps-pitfalls-and-dangerous-things/ ?

[caladonn]

Sorry if this has been asked before but after skimming thru 70+ Pages and realizing there is 640 in this thread I figured I could just ask, Is there any plans to Port this to Skyrim SE?

[LazyBoot]

4 minutes ago, caladonn said:

Sorry if this has been asked before but after skimming thru 70+ Pages and realizing there is 640 in this thread I figured I could just ask, Is there any plans to Port this to Skyrim SE?

Like with all the other DD mods, the author says: "When all the requirements are in"

[Psalam]

3 minutes ago, caladonn said:

Sorry if this has been asked before but after skimming thru 70+ Pages and realizing there is 640 in this thread I figured I could just ask, Is there any plans to Port this to Skyrim SE?

I am not the right person to answer your question but I will give you a technical heads up.

At the top of the page on the right is the Search engine. Type a one word search in here (sad to say that it does not work well without multiple words), in your case I would suggest SE. Then to the left of where you typed in your request a box will appear which will default to "all topics." Use the pull down menu (the down arrow) and a list of alternatives will appear. Select "this topic" and all references to SE that are already in this thread will be listed. I find this saves me a great deal of time and asking questions that have been asked before (in my case sometimes many times before).

Hope that helps! 

[Lupine00]

16 minutes ago, LazyBoot said:

6 hours ago, Lupine00 said:

 

Have you looked at https://www.loverslab.com/files/file/3439-wip-traps-pitfalls-and-dangerous-things/ ?

No. Or, rather, I have now.

I guess I wasn't so crazy after all.

 

It is ... perhaps ... not as devious focused as I would like, and just from the front-page I can't tell how hard the traps are to spot, or whether they can be spotted at all, nor whether you can disarm them. However, as a proof of concept trap layer, I guess it is mostly there.

 

I couldn't quite see if it has a similar approach to my idea that would allow coverage of the entire dungeon. From the front page, it sounds like there is only one trap layer, and it would be stymied by locked doors, where as my suggestion would allow traps even in a locked boss encounter room, as long as there are levelled list baddies in there somewhere. Maybe it has a different, perhaps better approach instead?

 

The hand-placed traps of DT are always going to be the best for the player, just not for the modder. It allows the most strategic placement, and the idea of being able to learn where they are is actually a plus point to me. TPADT sounds a hyper-random, and not like the fairly predictable locations I was proposing. If the trap layer mob evaluates possible traps from a fixed position, in a fixed order, any particular layer-spawn is going to lay repeatable trap locations unless you intentionally randomise it. I think that's better than super-random. If a trap could be anywhere, you would soon burn out on them, I think.

[Lupine00]

4 minutes ago, Psalam said:

Sorry if this has been asked before but after skimming thru 70+ Pages and realizing there is 640 in this thread I figured I could just ask, Is there any plans to Port this to Skyrim SE?

IIRC, the reply in the past has been, only if SKSE is working properly on SE.

But given Kimy has been active in the FO4 area, there may at least be a plan to make this work on SE without SKSE, should LE cease to be a platform.

 

It's a worthy question, as the situation is always changing.

 

I get the impression that there is a long term plan to get DD4 onto SE, and once that happened, DCL probably wouldn't be far behind.

[Lupine00]

2 hours ago, AkiKay said:

so i searched the Console and the AddItemMenu a bit recently and found "Kimy´s Ring". Is that involved in some Quest ? Im kind of curious.

I believe it's for testing purposes and of little interest in normal play.

[Rogwar002]

4 hours ago, AkiKay said:

so i searched the Console and the AddItemMenu a bit recently and found "Kimy´s Ring". Is that involved in some Quest ? Im kind of curious.

Imagine a dead serious looking old man smoking a pipe and drinking a mug of steaming black coffee saying:

 

"It´s the ring... to bind them all."

 

sorry... couldn´t resist...

[centurian]

Hi, asked a similar question before, but the scenario has cropped up again.

 

Are the collar quests intended to be repeatable. What's supposed to happen if the PC ends up in the Rubber Doll Collar or Cursed Collar after having already completed the quest once.

 

My PC got a Rubber Doll Collar from cursed loot. But it's not expanding. Should it go through the same cycle of encasement/sex to remove it. If not, what's the "correct" way to remove the collar second time around.

 

Thanks