Deviously Cursed Loot LE 9.0 (2021-03-09)

[KinkyKate]

Is the captured princess start still in the mod? I don't see any mention about it on the mod page, and it doesn't show up ingame. Someone said it still was though so I'm checking here.

[LazyBoot]

9 minutes ago, KinkyKate said:

Is the captured princess start still in the mod? I don't see any mention about it on the mod page, and it doesn't show up ingame. Someone said it still was though so I'm checking here.

It should be, make sure you've enabled the lal start addon esp as well.

[KinkyKate]

4 minutes ago, LazyBoot said:

It should be, make sure you've enabled the lal start addon esp as well.

LAL works fine for me, it's just that, that specific start doesn't show up.

[LazyBoot]

52 minutes ago, KinkyKate said:

LAL works fine for me, it's just that, that specific start doesn't show up.

But have you made sure the cursed loot lal addon is also active?

Also you may need to install better dialogue controls or ez2c dialogue if you have lots of options.

[KinkyKate]

5 minutes ago, LazyBoot said:

But have you made sure the cursed loot lal addon is also active?

Also you may need to install better dialogue controls or ez2c dialogue if you have lots of options.

I use NMM to install all my mods and all the plugins are activated. Do I need to find the esp somewhere?

[Laura]

Hey Kimy I love the mod.

I have a request. I would like to see a custom event. An event where you can choose the devices for each slot would be really nice. A bit like DD equip. One where the player can choose between all the standard gags and hoods for the head slot and all the standard chastity belts for the bodyslot and so on. (Not sure if it uses the bodyslot, but you get the point). When that event triggers, the set of devices you selected in the MCM will when the equip on your character.

 

I understand that the MCM menu is already near capacity. But I have also seen a few mods that have 2 seperate MCM menu's. Maybe that could be a solution. I would love to see this implemented.

 

Thanks.

[Kimy]

7 hours ago, Lupine00 said:

I disagree. In the sense that I don't believe that sexlab's tagging system can or should be overhauled.

The animation packs out there simply don't have the tags. Who is going to add them?

 

Once you are at the point where you are cataloguing that information, you may as well put it in a small, light, maintainable mod that delivers that information to consumers and requires no changes to SexLab. That also has an API for aware animation packs to add themselves in the future, or for ANYONE who cares to add them, or alter them for packs they know and love.

 

Expecting the animation packs to all get remade for a new sexlab, and forcing a "big bang" where one design for tagging is forced onto others is exactly what failed in the first place. The chances that you will fully anticipate the needs of every modder are slim to none. But with a small, light animation finder mod, if a feature is missing, it can be added later without making every single SL user upgrade. Or somebody can use the data to make a competing mod, that can be installed as well. Only new mods that use the finder need to upgrade. In fact, it could be designed to allow side-by-side install of versions as a policy, but I guess that sounds too much like real software engineering. (I hear people moaning about mod limit already, but it's an edge case that could be used to argue against every mod ever made).

 

A monolithic "designed by fiat" SexLab overhaul simply isn't necessary, and will exclude those it does not please.

 

What are the odds some dreamed of future-fix-all SexLab will deliver exactly the right API, and will be perfectly backwards compatible?

Oddly enough, people don't really like massive changes to a critical mod they rely on, especially developers.

DD4 didn't manage to solve that issue, with a much smaller problem.

Zaz 8+ still isn't trusted by a lot of people, and it doesn't change the Zbf API at all.

 

I for one do not want to deal with a fragmented ecosystem where old SL mods and new SL mods can't co-exist in the same LO. We have some of this issue with DD. You can brush off the yokes issue as minor, but there are other incompatibilities too, just more subtle. Some mods relied on the old difficulties, they might still work (bar yokes), but really, their gameplay is spoiled.

You are correct, a tag system overhaul will not likely happen at this point - it's just too late in SexLab's life cycle to do that. Which is why I saw and still do not see another choice than implementing a local solution to a problem which is more or less local by nature anyway (it's a problem very specific to bondage, making it a DD problem).

 

This so-called "small" mod you're proposing would amount to an insane amount of work btw. Because someone would have to look at literally EVERY single animation ever made, come up with a classification system for them, create descriptors for each animation, and write code to allow 3rd mods to pick fitting animations. Oh...and the person would need to keep track of about a dozen different animators creating SLAL packs and update the "small" mod on a probably weekly basis to keep up with the new animations released.

 

Your idea sounds very good on paper, but I wouldn't want to be the person implementing it.

 

It's extremely hilarious that we're having such a debate over my solution, which does EXACTLY what it's meant to do - playing fitting animations depending on what restraints characters are wearing. It's 100% working as intended and didn't require me half a year of work to create. The only reason why we're talking about this is one person who wanted to be able to bypass that exact feature and have DCL able to pick nonsensical animations.

 

The only limitation my solution has over your proposal is that bound animations (only these) will have to be added to DD, and cannot be in separate mods/packs. That's a -theoretical- limitation, because NOBODY outside of the DD team has ever shown interest in making humanoid bound animations for DD devices. As Supertin has pointed out, the animations need to be created with DD in mind, otherwise they won't work with our devices. I guess some of the misconceptions people have about the DD animation filter stems from the fact that some animators release "bound" animations, but use random poses, not meant for DD. We can NOT use these, and that's NOT a problem of my code, it's a problem of the animation not created with DD in mind.

 

Again, the lack of variation in bound animations is one of our top priorities for the post-4.1 DD release. We realize that no 3rd party animator seems to want to make bound animations compatible with our devices, so we will create our own. *shrug*

[Kimy]

4 hours ago, Comrade Laura 'Lokomootje' said:

Hey Kimy I love the mod.

You better! You're the reason it exists, remember?

Quote

I have a request. I would like to see a custom event. An event where you can choose the devices for each slot would be really nice. A bit like DD equip. One where the player can choose between all the standard gags and hoods for the head slot and all the standard chastity belts for the bodyslot and so on. (Not sure if it uses the bodyslot, but you get the point). When that event triggers, the set of devices you selected in the MCM will when the equip on your character.

You mean as in -specific- devices? Like "Red Ebonite Strap Ball Gag"? Because DCL already lets you pick device types (such as "use ball gags and not ring gags").

 

[Kimy]

8 hours ago, qawsedrftg765 said:

I am assuming Version 7 will require a new game?

It's too early to tell. I have a list of things I want to implement, and I would -assume- that it might need a game, but I wouldn't let that stop me from starting a new game now. Mind you that 7 is still a long ways off.

[Laura]

29 minutes ago, Kimy said:

You better! You're the reason it exists, remember?

 

I know and I do love it a lot. Mostly because you turned my idea in one of the most populair adult mods.

I like it that you remember. It was a long time ago. The suggestion for this mod is one of the first things I posted on LL. And I also changed my name a bit a few times.

 

29 minutes ago, Kimy said:

You mean as in -specific- devices? Like "Red Ebonite Strap Ball Gag"? Because DCL already lets you pick device types (such as "use ball gags and not ring gags").

 

I used the wrong example there. I mean something like a devious outfit with a red catsuit, black leather armbinder, black leather cuffs, black leather ball gag, black leather blindfold and black eboninte catsuit socks.

Something like this:

I also often enable hobble dresses in the DCL MCM because I like them alot. But I sometimes get different versions I don't prefer or the normal non-extreme versions. I sometimes want the closed straitjacket and legbinder combo. But when I enable them in the MCM, I don't always get the one I prefer.

I want to have more control over what my character is forced to wear.

 

There are so many options and colours. I love mixing and matching them. I know that I can kinda get the same thing with the Self Bondage feature. But I don't want to walk around with them in my inventory and having Self Bondage equip it one by one doesn't work correctly for me.

 

You could maybe make a new and separate Cursed Loot MCM for something like this.

Having a new custom event with a new and separate MCM menu could be the more elegant solution than giving us the option to choose the specific kind of restraint when enabling it in the original MCM menu.

 

Anyway, I'm not a Skyrim mod wizard. I just the silly gal with the kinky ideas.

But I hope that this is possible. I would love to see something like this implemented.

 

[tookachinchilla]

13 minutes ago, Comrade Laura 'Lokomootje' said:

I mean something like a devious outfit...

 

14 minutes ago, Comrade Laura 'Lokomootje' said:

Having a new custom event...

Spouses Enhanced has a feature where you can create outfits for your spouse. Could something like that be incorporated? In one MCM screen you could create various bondage sets, and then the custom outfit event (which, if understand Laura correctly, would be an event that you could assign a weight to like all of the other possible events), if triggered, would select from the custom outfits you created. The screen to create the custom outfits might be unwieldy though, given how many items there are and how much is already going on in the MCM menu (I don't remember how exactly Spouses Enhanced handles the outfit creation, as I only used it briefly).

[Laura]

13 minutes ago, tookachinchilla said:

 

Spouses Enhanced has a feature where you can create outfits for your spouse. Could something like that be incorporated? In one MCM screen you could create various bondage sets, and then the custom outfit event (which, if understand Laura correctly, would be an event that you could assign a weight to like all of the other possible events), if triggered, would select from the custom outfits you created. The screen to create the custom outfits might be unwieldy though, given how many items there are and how much is already going on in the MCM menu (I don't remember how exactly Spouses Enhanced handles the outfit creation, as I only used it briefly).

I'm not familiar with Spouses Enhanced. But I do know that Inte made something like that for player quite elegantly. I'm not on the right PC right now, so I can't take a screenshot of it. But i'll make one when I can.

[Nerdman]

really thx for modder. but this mod isn't compatible with Relationship Dialogue Overhaul (RDO)?

because every time i checked rdo, skyrim won't start (=loding ctd)..

 

and.. ball gag isn't working?? i mean.. it's dressed well.. but, still keep talking to me.. not ahah or uhuhu something...

[CGi]

7 minutes ago, emfdjrkwk4657 said:

really thx for modder. but this mod isn't compatible with Relationship Dialogue Overhaul (RDO)?

because every time i checked rdo, skyrim won't start (=loding ctd)..

 

and.. ball gag isn't working?? i mean.. it's dressed well.. but, still keep talking to me.. not ahah or uhuhu something...

RDO is incompatible with alot of things incl. Devious Followers and Alternate Start ... pretty much every mod that affects follower dialogue.

[Nerdman]

Just now, CGi said:

RDO is incompatible with alot of things incl. Devious Followers and Alternate Start ... pretty much every mod that affects follower dialogue.

thx for reply!

 

and ball gag is trouble to only me??.. why my girls still keep talking to me.. noooooooooooooooo

[Laura]

5 hours ago, Comrade Laura 'Lokomootje' said:

 

I know and I do love it a lot. Mostly because you turned my idea in one of the most populair adult mods.

I like it that you remember. It was a long time ago. The suggestion for this mod is one of the first things I posted on LL. And I also changed my name a bit a few times.

 

 

I used the wrong example there. I mean something like a devious outfit with a red catsuit, black leather armbinder, black leather cuffs, black leather ball gag, black leather blindfold and black eboninte catsuit socks.

Something like this:

 

  Reveal hidden contents

 

 

 

 

 

I also often enable hobble dresses in the DCL MCM because I like them alot. But I sometimes get different versions I don't prefer or the normal non-extreme versions. I sometimes want the closed straitjacket and legbinder combo. But when I enable them in the MCM, I don't always get the one I prefer.

I want to have more control over what my character is forced to wear.

 

There are so many options and colours. I love mixing and matching them. I know that I can kinda get the same thing with the Self Bondage feature. But I don't want to walk around with them in my inventory and having Self Bondage equip it one by one doesn't work correctly for me.

 

You could maybe make a new and separate Cursed Loot MCM for something like this.

Having a new custom event with a new and separate MCM menu could be the more elegant solution than giving us the option to choose the specific kind of restraint when enabling it in the original MCM menu.

 

Anyway, I'm not a Skyrim mod wizard. I just the silly gal with the kinky ideas.

But I hope that this is possible. I would love to see something like this implemented.

 

 

  Reveal hidden contents

 

 

 

 

 

 

This is how Inte made the MCM for the custom outfits:

 

 

 

 

[Clea Strange]

so I just discovered this mod that allows you to use spells while bound though limited apparently and can speak through followers if you wanted to called "Bwitch" which means that I could have my character stay bound up tight without ever removing the devices and still cast magic since I play mage types mostly

[DonQuiWho]

11 hours ago, Comrade Laura 'Lokomootje' said:

 

This is how Inte made the MCM for the custom outfits:

  Reveal hidden contents

 

 

 

It's a pity Inte hasn't yet updated DDEquip to DD4 functionality.  I can understand why, given the amount of work that must be involved, but I had really rather hoped that if they could have found a way of making everything work on DD4, it might have been possible to find a way of plugging DDEquip into DD, for those that want that , rather than replicate the whole thing.  

 

But, TBH, it might be a bit much to expect either DD to become dependent on DDEquip or have DDEquip being forced to update every time DD does

[Laura]

47 minutes ago, donkeywho said:

It's a pity Inte hasn't yet updated DDEquip to DD4 functionality.  I can understand why, given the amount of work that must be involved, but I had really rather hoped that if they could have found a way of making everything work on DD4, it might have been possible to find a way of plugging DDEquip into DD, for those that want that , rather than replicate the whole thing.  

 

But, TBH, it might be a bit much to expect either DD to become dependent on DDEquip or have DDEquip being forced to update every time DD does

I'm using DDe as an example here. I don't want DDe to become a requirement for DCL.

The less requirements the better.

And it is a shame DDe hasn't been updated yet. I liked playing around with it.

[Ytheria]

47 minutes ago, donkeywho said:

It's a pity Inte hasn't yet updated DDEquip to DD4 functionality.  I can understand why, given the amount of work that must be involved, but I had really rather hoped that if they could have found a way of making everything work on DD4, it might have been possible to find a way of plugging DDEquip into DD, for those that want that , rather than replicate the whole thing.  

 

But, TBH, it might be a bit much to expect either DD to become dependent on DDEquip or have DDEquip being forced to update every time DD does

This is just a problem with modding, unfortunately.  There's no way volunteer modders can be expected to update their mods every time there's a change in a related mod.  In Inte's case, I imagine he'll get to it eventually, but it's a real problem when the author of a mod is no longer active.  Obviously if "Devious Skyrim" was being developed by a software house, these co-ordination problems would be a lot easier to deal with.

 

That said, I think what has been achieved to date is very impressive.

[Ytheria]

19 hours ago, Kimy said:

The only limitation my solution has over your proposal is that bound animations (only these) will have to be added to DD, and cannot be in separate mods/packs. That's a -theoretical- limitation, because NOBODY outside of the DD team has ever shown interest in making humanoid bound animations for DD devices. As Supertin has pointed out, the animations need to be created with DD in mind, otherwise they won't work with our devices. I guess some of the misconceptions people have about the DD animation filter stems from the fact that some animators release "bound" animations, but use random poses, not meant for DD. We can NOT use these, and that's NOT a problem of my code, it's a problem of the animation not created with DD in mind.

 

Again, the lack of variation in bound animations is one of our top priorities for the post-4.1 DD release. We realize that no 3rd party animator seems to want to make bound animations compatible with our devices, so we will create our own. *shrug*

I'm slightly surprised by this.  FunnyBizness' SLAL pack includes 34 animations with the word "bound" in the name.  I appreciate that most (perhaps all) of these will have positioning incompatible with DD items, but there's clearly some interest in making bound animations, and I would have thought that animators would like their animations to be widely used (and therefore callable by DD mods).  I wonder if this isn't really a communication problem.

[Kimy]

3 hours ago, Ytheria said:

I'm slightly surprised by this.  FunnyBizness' SLAL pack includes 34 animations with the word "bound" in the name.  I appreciate that most (perhaps all) of these will have positioning incompatible with DD items, but there's clearly some interest in making bound animations, and I would have thought that animators would like their animations to be widely used (and therefore callable by DD mods).  I wonder if this isn't really a communication problem.

I dunno. But I talked to Funnybiz back then, to explain why I can't add his bound creature animations without adding general bestiality support to DD (which we did no and do not plan). I also told them that I'd add ANY humanoid bound animation he'd throw my way, and how dearly we could need a few beyond the handful in ZAP. But he never indicated any interest to me.

 

I find it puzzling too - that some animators seem to make bound animations, but seemingly have no interest in making them compatible with the bondage framework that could actually make use of them. But it is what it is.

[Kimy]

16 hours ago, Comrade Laura 'Lokomootje' said:

 

This is how Inte made the MCM for the custom outfits:

  Hide contents

 

 

 

I would have to look at the code to confirm, but judging from the screenshot, his outfit feature is using DD's tag selector, which allows querying the DD library for items having certain properties. It -technically- doesn't let you pick specific items from the database, but more often than not there will be only one item matching your query, if you pass enough tags.

 

DCL never made use of the tag selector though, because it has a few limitations making it not powerful enough for DCL's needs. And if I have to preselect devices anyway, I might as well pick them directly from DD's database (which is how I do it.)

 

In short - yes, it's doable. But it would be work. I keep it in mind.

[Kimy]

4 hours ago, Comrade Laura 'Lokomootje' said:

I'm using DDe as an example here. I don't want DDe to become a requirement for DCL.

The less requirements the better.

And it is a shame DDe hasn't been updated yet. I liked playing around with it.

Personally I never used DD Equip, as I have no need for a self-bondage manager, and that's what that mod essentially is. Self-bondage is what you do when you have nobody to play with, as it's such a poor stand-in for the real thing. In Skyrim you always have somebody to play with, because the NPCs are always happy to lock something on you. *shrug*

But I can see why some might find it useful, so I guess it just boils down to taste.

 

Having written that code, I am pretty convinced that updating DD3 to DD4 isn't THAT hard. It amounts to mass-converting keywords in the ESP using TES5Edit and a few Search/Replace operations in your favorite code editor to do the same in your scripts. For DCL it took me half a day or so to do. *shrug*

 

The reason why Inte doesn't want to do it isn't workload, but because DD4 no longer supports ZAP, and for reasons only known to Inte, he doesn't want to do use LL's most widely used bondage framework to handle the bondage features in Prison Overhaul. Instead he insists on POP still using the outdated and obsolete bondage code in ZAP. Since he's using DD Equip as a bridge from POP to DD, he simply can't update to DD4 as long as his stance about POP having to use ZAP instead of DD doesn't' change. With ME about to be converted, POP will be the last major bondage mod on LL not using DD for handling restraints, but apparently, that's what he wants. I obviously can't force him to upgrade, so I wouldn't hold my breath to see DD Equip supporting DD4 anytime soon.

[tookachinchilla]

1 hour ago, Kimy said:

I would have to look at the code to confirm, but judging from the screenshot, his outfit feature is using DD's tag selector, which allows querying the DD library for items having certain properties.

You could also take a look at Spouses Enhanced (or just ignore the suggestion).