devious devices Devious Lore

[Yukitemi]

I've been playin this for a while now and have some suggestions:

 

1. This mod needs save\load of MCM settings. Having to customise prices everytime you start a new game is a pain.

 

2. Needs a option to disable nearest NPC from "ally" function of the mod, sort of like Devious Followers does. Coz these two are not compatible, while one mod makes followers demand gold for helping with restraints, the other does this basicaly for free with no repercussions.

(Speaking of allies... I don't think these chances work at all, I even set everything at 0% chance and still nobody denied me)

 

3. Add a option in mcm about struggle minigame, if you fail it you can't wait or sleep(probably just add heath damage to the stamina debuff). And maybe configurable debuff duration? If it's not hard to do.

[Nymra]

Request out of pure agony :

 

I basically tested this mod solely for the struggle game... but ...

 

Could we have a version with like zero popups please? 
The basic nonsense of Devious Devices (in my feeling) is the constant Popup spam which is annoying and breaks immersion thousandfold
Yeah, might be a personal preference, but I just tend to minimize popup mods at all cost. 

Since I doubt anything like that might be implemented for DD itself, maybe Devious Lore could get an option to just:

 

-> click struggle key -> struggle game starts  (no pop up, no options, no nothing). 

struggle just starts with wrists restraint, then ankles, then torso, then rest and so on. 
I like the idea of the struggle game and pressing keys and stuff, just not the popups. 

 

[hexenhaus]

15 hours ago, Nymra said:

Request out of pure agony :

 

I basically tested this mod solely for the struggle game... but ...

 

Could we have a version with like zero popups please? 
The basic nonsense of Devious Devices (in my feeling) is the constant Popup spam which is annoying and breaks immersion thousandfold
Yeah, might be a personal preference, but I just tend to minimize popup mods at all cost. 

Since I doubt anything like that might be implemented for DD itself, maybe Devious Lore could get an option to just:

 

-> click struggle key -> struggle game starts  (no pop up, no options, no nothing). 

struggle just starts with wrists restraint, then ankles, then torso, then rest and so on. 
I like the idea of the struggle game and pressing keys and stuff, just not the popups. 

 

And how you choose what tactic to use to get out of the restraints?

 

What if you have a high-sec. device in one slot and you know you cant struggle out of it and you know you will be exhausted if you try?

Or you have cause to not remove particular devices, lets say because of a deal from Devious followers, an addiction from Dragonborn in Distress or you want to train your body with Devious Body Alteration or Devious Training, but are really annoyed by that soulgem piercing?

 

There have to be options and sticking to DDs menu is the best way to do it in my oppinion and with with struggle hotkey it is faster too.

 

============

 

But I think the mini game must be overhauled in some way:

 

•  It is just too exploitable, if only dependent on stamina. The difficulty scales badly with more stamina and regeneration and it can be easily broken by popular mods like Andromeda or Imperious Races, which provide more regeneration. The difficulty slider gives means to counteract that somewhat, but 5x is still not enough to counter some buffs. Without any breaking buff I found 3-4x difficulty a good compromise to still be able to fail but with lvl it becomes fast too easy to struggle out of stuff.
   
  • maybe give the option to nullify stamina regeneration while playing the mini-game? So more stamina still makes it easier but reg.-buffs do not break the system?

 

• It would also be good if you could cancel the minigame in a way. Sometimes you just wanna try to get out of the most restricting stuff, but you see immediatly that it wont work (stamina can drain pretty fast on higher difficulty), leaving you drained in a dungeon for example.

 

[Nymra]

45 minutes ago, hexenhaus said:

And how you choose what tactic to use to get out of the restraints?

 

How is that important in any way? Its all roleplay because there is no animation for any of it. 
The reality is that only struggle animations exist, so I wont really bother when tactics is the only struggle. 
Also this would be an MCM option ideally, so people could chooses how to perform the struggle game. 
I just hope other ppl also wish for such a thing so it maybe can come true one day. 

 

 

45 minutes ago, hexenhaus said:

 

What if you have a high-sec. device in one slot and you know you cant struggle out of it and you know you will be exhausted if you try?

Or you have cause to not remove particular devices, lets say because of a deal from Devious followers, an addiction from Dragonborn in Distress or you want to train your body with Devious Body Alteration or Devious Training, but are really annoyed by that soulgem piercing?

 

Then you just use the struggle mechanics from DD or the regular one from this mod. 
I dont use any of the mentioned mods because, yeah... I dont want the DDs to invade my game like that (MAIN REASON for that is because of the popup spam in struggle games lol)

As for the deals in Devious followers I dont really get them because it does not seem any negative consequence when not following them at all. 

 

I have maximum control over which mod adds devices for that reason (also because many of them are immersion breaking like hell. Devious Followers just "taped" my mouth, for sanguines sake! :P)
 

45 minutes ago, hexenhaus said:

 

There have to be options and sticking to DDs menu is the best way to do it in my oppinion and with with struggle hotkey it is faster too.

For me options is something that belongs in an MCM. The ideal mod immersion and gameplaywise has zero pop ups. the only exclusion would be technical mods that need it (like placing Zaps). 

I mean when you look at many pop ups they are mostly useless because the selections are not really options and the text information displayed can easily be told in mod descriptions or MCMs. 

 

[hexenhaus]

 

7 minutes ago, Nymra said:

 

How is that important in any way? Its all roleplay because there is no animation for any of it. 
The reality is that only struggle animations exist, so I wont really bother when tactics is the only struggle. 
Also this would be an MCM option ideally, so people could chooses how to perform the struggle game. 
I just hope other ppl also wish for such a thing so it maybe can come true one day. 

 

 

 

Then you just use the struggle mechanics from DD or the regular one from this mod. 
I dont use any of the mentioned mods because, yeah... I dont want the DDs to invade my game like that (MAIN REASON for that is because of the popup spam in struggle games lol)

As for the deals in Devious followers I dont really get them because it does not seem any negative consequence when not following them at all. 

 

I have maximum control over which mod adds devices for that reason (also because many of them are immersion breaking like hell. Devious Followers just "taped" my mouth, for sanguines sake! :P)
 

For me options is something that belongs in an MCM. The ideal mod immersion and gameplaywise has zero pop ups. the only exclusion would be technical mods that need it (like placing Zaps). 

I mean when you look at many pop ups they are mostly useless because the selections are not really options and the text information displayed can easily be told in mod descriptions or MCMs. 

 

1. Kind of an optional easy mode then. I can get behind that.
   On the other hand DDs have different difficulties for escape options, so that different characters could use different methods more efficiently and have harder times with different restraints and I like that concept too.
   But honestly making it too easy does make it obsolet! Why install a RND-mod while there is plenty of food everywhere. Isn't it the point of restrictive devices to restrict? Personally I like to think about solving a problem, instead of just clocking a button. If the lock is too hard, while not try to break stuff and I especially like that you can train your PC in the related skill ? Otherwise there would be no point in that.
    
2. Devious Followers add debt if you do not follow up on the deals and do get angry (whatever that means)

In the end it all comes down to personal taste ?

For me the pop-up menus from EFF, Defeat and co. are ingenious; there is nothing worse then mods that constantly force me to open the inventory or worse the MCM. I hate it to scroll through the equipment menu to find the one device I'd like to remove or the one spell to equip. Having a not-so-deep but wide branching menu to get stuff done is far better then to crawl through menus and that is what Devious Lore's struggle button does right, while not adding "unnecessary" information. I mean it only shows occupied slots and asks on how to approach things - It won't get simpler and more easy to use, while still providing options.

 

[Nymra]

1 minute ago, hexenhaus said:

 

1. Kind of an optional easy mode then. I can get behind that.
   On the other hand DDs have different difficulties for escape options, so that different characters could use different methods more efficiently and have harder times with different restraints and I like that concept too.
   But honestly making it too easy does make it obsolet! Why install a RND-mod while there is plenty of food everywhere. Isn't it the point of restrictive devices to restrict? Personally I like to think about solving a problem, instead of just clocking a button. If the lock is too hard, while not try to break stuff and I especially like that you can train your PC in the related skill ? Otherwise there would be no point in that.

Skyrim has no player attributes really, so why bother with difference there?

I dont want an easy mode, I just want a no pop up mode, hehe. If that means losing some options that were never relevant for me before, well no problem. 

I mean it could even be HARDER if that "easy mode" would just mean that when u press the hotkey you struggle out of a randomly selected device. (like IRL struggle could mean you try to open device A but unexpected Device B comes lose first). 

Lets see what the whole DD point is: it restricts you and struggle takes time. So time is the basic "punishment" here. 
Apart of that, we also want DDs to be sexy and entertaining. So seeing the PC struggle is entertaining and that alone. Brwosing through 5 pop up windows is not, its gamey/artifical. 
It solves a real problem (browsing inventory or MCM) with another instead of solving it. 
 

I mean in theory there could even be three hotkeys: struggle out of heavy, struggle out of normal, struggle out of "OPEN POPUP" that way all would be covered. 

dunno if possible but other mods do it: Press CTRL+hotkey, Struggle out of heavy or high secutiry, SHIFT+Hotkey: sturggle normal, only hotkey: POPUP

 

 

1 minute ago, hexenhaus said:

1. Devious Followers add debt if you do not follow up on the deals and do get angry (whatever that means)

In the end it all comes down to personal taste ?

yeah, true. Well. Angry is not happening. I tested it some time and virtually nothing happened. I even removed my tape gag and the follower did not rape the PCs mouth, so yeah... a Dom that does nothing or is not fullfilling threats is just a weak dom and a weak dom is no dom at all

Different topic tho, sorry. 

 

1 minute ago, hexenhaus said:

For me the pop-up menus from EFF, Defeat and co. are ingenious; there is nothing worse then mods that constantly force me to open the inventory or worse the MCM. I hate it to scroll through the equipment menu to find the one device I'd like to remove or the one spell to equip. Having a not-so-deep but wide branching menu to get stuff done is far better then to crawl through menus and that is what Devious Lore's struggle button does right, while not adding "unnecessary" information. I mean it only shows occupied slots and asks on how to approach things - It won't get simpler and more easy to use, while still providing options.

 

Fair enough, but yeah, see above. it replaces a true problem with an unecessary one (IMO). What is necessary information is also subjective I guess and all the pop ups of both DD and Devious Lore bring for me is loads of unecessary and unwanted information. 

[JuliusXX]

I ask this question here although I'm not sure if this is a problem with this mod or latest Cursed Loot. I've noticed that when I open those special packages it takes a long time before anything happens. It works but it just takes a really long time. I'm using the SE version from MystOfDawn and I didn't have this problem in my previous game without Cursed Loot. Is this normal when the game checks what PC is wearing or do I have a problem somewhere? I ask because I have no experience with this mod combination (DCUR + Lore) with SE, but I know that it was a lot quicker with LE.

[Corsec]

So there is a conflict between Weapons and Armor Fixes, Complete Crafting Overhaul Remade and the Devious Devices - Lore Patch.

 

Under the FormID Lists for DD-LP, there are 6 resist enchantment types. These entries add a keyword, which differs from the ones that are added by WAFR and CCOR. Should I leave DD-LP to overwrite, or should I make a merged patch to combine both keywords?

[Zaflis]

7 hours ago, JuliusXX said:

 

I remember reading the hdtHighHeels mod may cause very long delays for equipping DD, do you have that? (I am not 100% sure that's even a real thing, but why not gather statistics ? ) There's no reason to have that installed anyway.

[Boulo_92]

On 4/20/2020 at 8:39 PM, MystOfDawn said:

Conversion of 2.03 and the 2.0 patches for SE.

I'll keep an eye on any updates, it won't take two months this time

As always, let me know if there are any problems:

 

Devious Lore 2.03.7z 2.07 MB · 23 downloads Devious Devices - Lore Patch 2.0.7z 649.19 kB · 22 downloads Devious Devices - Struggle Idles Patch 2.0.7z 615.1 kB · 18 downloads Devious Lore - KS Hairs Patch 2.0.7z 5.34 MB · 18 downloads

Hi,

 

Thank you for the port.

 

There is a problem with the rope restraints : they don't appear when equipped.

 

The problem lies in the converted esp :
Devious Devices - Lore Patch.esp and Devious Devices - Struggle Idles Patch.esp

In the Armor section, for zadx _ **** Rope_Ren the Armature section is not filled in, it is empty.
For example :
For the id zadx_WhiteL_CrotchRope_Ren there is no MODL in Armature.

They are however well filled in the LE version of these patches.

Workaround:
-> Use the LE version patches

These patches work well on SSE as is.
no need to convert to form 44, from what I have read in several LL posts and from the many esp in form 43 that I use without worry after several hundred hours of play.

[MystOfDawn]

Thank for letting me know. I've been thinking about this exact issue for a while now.

I'm definitly not an expert modder and there's been so much discussion on the form 44 thing

 

But now that you mention it, I haven't been in rope restraints during testing...

I can't believe I forgot the part of the mod I was most interested in with the update

[JuliusXX]

16 hours ago, Zaflis said:

I remember reading the hdtHighHeels mod may cause very long delays for equipping DD, do you have that? (I am not 100% sure that's even a real thing, but why not gather statistics ? ) There's no reason to have that installed anyway.

I don't have the real HDT High Heels mod installed, but I have the HDT High Heels Fix mod. I should probably check what removing this does to the lag.

[Zaflis]

3 hours ago, JuliusXX said:

I don't have the real HDT High Heels mod installed, but I have the HDT High Heels Fix mod. I should probably check what removing this does to the lag.

That looks totally harmless with no functionality. Oh well then your case is something else.

The way Devious Lore equips stuff on my character is fade out to back and fade back in. In total it takes about 6 seconds, and by that time the whole set should already be equipped if it triggered a trap.

 

If my hunch is right you might find loads of stuff in papyrus log if logging is enabled.

[JuliusXX]

11 hours ago, Zaflis said:

That looks totally harmless with no functionality. Oh well then your case is something else.

The way Devious Lore equips stuff on my character is fade out to back and fade back in. In total it takes about 6 seconds, and by that time the whole set should already be equipped if it triggered a trap.

 

If my hunch is right you might find loads of stuff in papyrus log if logging is enabled.

I tried to test this yesterday but it seems like it's not a problem with a freshly loaded game. Might be something that happens when the game has been on for some hours. I have to continue testing and see if the time has something to do with this problem.

[Zaflis]

4 hours ago, JuliusXX said:

I tried to test this yesterday but it seems like it's not a problem with a freshly loaded game. Might be something that happens when the game has been on for some hours. I have to continue testing and see if the time has something to do with this problem.

Maybe you had the real HDT-HH in early stages of the save and it already did its harm until you installed the Fix? One confirmation about the issue i found here by Lupine:

https://www.loverslab.com/blogs/entry/10723-hdt-hh-performance-patch/

The symptomps were exactly that it gets worse over time.

Such as delays to starting SL animations:

https://www.loverslab.com/topic/133684-fix-animation-delay/?tab=comments#comment-2817861

[JuliusXX]

3 hours ago, Zaflis said:

Maybe you had the real HDT-HH in early stages of the save and it already did its harm until you installed the Fix? One confirmation about the issue i found here by Lupine:

https://www.loverslab.com/blogs/entry/10723-hdt-hh-performance-patch/

The symptomps were exactly that it gets worse over time.

Such as delays to starting SL animations:

https://www.loverslab.com/topic/133684-fix-animation-delay/?tab=comments#comment-2817861

I haven't had the real HDT-HH for ages and in my current game I use that HDT-HH Fix Mod only because I was too lazy to fix one armor mod I wanted to try, and also wanted to test that fix. So it must be something else. It's also only the Devious Lore's packages which have this lag - DCUR traps have so far worked ok and I haven't noticed any special delay with the SL animations.

 

I think I had to once more check my inventory with the console command in case I have some left overs from the other DD mods there. I have also some other mods than DCUR installed in this playthrough that I didn't have in my previous ok game, so I have some leads to check.

[sardathejerk]

I'm not sure what I'm doing wrong with this file - whenever I activate one of the items, my character just freezes up, I can't activate the inventory or move at all. This happens whenever I try to use one of the crates/books/etc on myself, or when a guard tries to bind a character, or when I try and have a companion use the item through dialogue. I made sure everything was up to date and can't seem to figure out where the error is. Any guesses?

[neghthraw]

On 4/19/2020 at 7:03 PM, Xuvish said:

I set my MCM menu for 0.5 days.

 

I waited for 3 days at the Bannerrd Mare and kept talking to Hulda after each day.

 

The dialogue never came up.

 

Is it the same dialogue, or is it a new one?

From my experience, the dialogue first shows after you opened one loot package. Then, if you did the quest, it completely disappears until you open another loot package. I tried it by standing right in front of Hulda, talked to her - no dialogue option - then opened a daedric charm. Talked to her again, and she had the dialogue option for a new quest. 

Also, I opened an old grimoire on the first quest for Mirtrienne with 0 arousal and it bound me (Minimum arousal for binding set to 10, maximum to 150). Is this guaranteed for the first quest?

Edit: Forgot to say your mod is a great piece of work 

[Xuvish]

2 hours ago, neghthraw said:

From my experience, the dialogue first shows after you opened one loot package. Then, if you did the quest, it completely disappears until you open another loot package. I tried it by standing right in front of Hulda, talked to her - no dialogue option - then opened a daedric charm. Talked to her again, and she had the dialogue option for a new quest. 

Also, I opened an old grimoire on the first quest for Mirtrienne with 0 arousal and it bound me (Minimum arousal for binding set to 10, maximum to 150). Is this guaranteed for the first quest?

Edit: Forgot to say your mod is a great piece of work 

I was able to get the dialogue.

[Code Serpent]

2 hours ago, neghthraw said:

Also, I opened an old grimoire on the first quest for Mirtrienne with 0 arousal and it bound me (Minimum arousal for binding set to 10, maximum to 150). Is this guaranteed for the first quest?

Yep, thought it would be a fun introduction.

[Guest AthenaESIV]

The struggle minigame in this mod is the best for DD imo, thanks for that!

 

DD in general lacks escape mechanisms, this mod does an excellent job of providing that, tyty

[JuliusXX]

9 hours ago, loversusers said:

good to know.  I mainly get the impression dcl is doing a lot more than I needed since I have other mods that does similar things done in DCL.

If you only want a trap system like in DCL then maybe try Deviously Enchanted Chests.

[JuliusXX]

I found a small compatibility issue. The Mix-Blood Magics is located exactly on the same spot where Beyond Skyrim Bruma has one quest giver's camp.

[Nymra]

Hmm, I tried to mess around in the code a bit.

 

What I tried to do:

 

Remove all POP ups 

The idea was like this:

- On Key Press (Struggle Hotkey)
- Check Items priority wise (I extended the priority list of heavy bondage, mittens. Then came wrist bindings and then leg and so on) 
- Struggle game auto select (no pop up and therefore no options displayed)

- Choose strength or dexterity automatically by measuring which is higher 

- remove Struggle game "How to" Pop Up
- Equiped key or other tool decreases difficulty 
 

I succeeded partially, but some things did not add up. 
I started scripting like 2 days ago and it seems my knowlegde is not big enough, haha (obV!)

 

Problems I encountered:
- I did not understand how the mod scans and picks an item to struggle out if. Meaning I could not get the priority list to choose for example a gag when there was no item with higher priority equiped 

 

Struggle Game
I liked the original idea, but I did some testing and found a lot of isses

 

1. you have to stare at the stamina bar the whole time. This is kinda sad because when my PC does some sexy struggle I want to watch that and not the stamina bar
2. I had 1000 stamina and all difficulty at minimal and it still took forever to get free lol?! 
3. Why is the camera all locked while struggling? I cannot even rotate it around the scene like in DD
 

So I tried to replace the struggle game with a version that I set up for a different mod. But I could not get it to play yet. 
 

I dont know what to do now, lol.
I am thinking about modifying DD directly. Or write an independent mod that changes the whole DD device removal system.

Anyway... I just wanted to get back to this since maybe you share my attempt on "Pop Up free" mod experience and want to look at my code and maybe also implement an alternative struggle game (as patch or MCM option). 
Because I really love the general idea of that and this mod. 

 

[Nymra]

23 minutes ago, donttouchmethere said:

You also need high enough skills to escape quickly, depending on what escape mechanic you used.

Pickpocket, Lock-picking, melee skills, mage skills will all have an effect on the chance escape.

Means if you excel in one of that areas you would choose the fitting method of escaping.

Stamina indirectly limits the amount of times you can try to struggle and roll against DDi difficulty and your skills.

As far as I understand it the DL difficulty setting determines how much stamina gets used up on each escape roll.

I just say it is a huge time effort to get free even on low difficulties as a start character. Asuming I only had 150 Stamina i would take forever to get out of 1 Device (the 5 min realtime cooldown is also very hard. I turned it off and still took forever with 1000 Stamina on all easiest). 

I know DD fetish is to have them around and dominate the game, but I just want them as temporary distractions and eye candy, but virtually all DD mods do the exact opposite