devious devices Devious Lore

[Code Serpent]

4 minutes ago, SabrinaPurple said:

Are there any plans for a SE version or port?

Some other users make their own ports and post them here. I let them take care of it.

[Jade1280]

New Devious Lore release

Site crashes for several hours as people swarm the site to download it.

 

 

That is the headcannon i am going with.

[Xuvish]

I just upgraded to the current version from 1.14.  I don't see the dialogue that asks the innkeepers if they have seen any odd looking people.  I have not done any of the the quests from 1.14 for the odd looking people.

[Shion11]

i used both struggle idles and devious lore patch, and now my poor drunken dragonborn has problems with animations with her head moving into her body and her leg does the same thing. any way to fix this?

[Lupine00]

With the new patches, it's hard to figure out exactly what you're saying. The information about versioning obscures why you choose one mod over the other.

 

I get the impression the Lore patch is the most "complete" and delivers your intent the best?

 

 

Could you explain why a player should choose one or the other (or none) on the front page?

 

e.g.

Spoiler

 

Devious Lore Patch - this is the most complete patch. It does everything in Devious Struggles Patch, but adds the following extra features:

* blah

* blah

 

Devious Struggles Patch - this adds better struggle animations to most devices, and also does the following:

* blah

 

Both patches require DD 4.3+ and support the majority of devices, including Pet Suits and rope binders.

You should choose the Devious Lore patch for the full effect, or Devious Struggles if you want to keep item descriptions and blah, blah.

 

 

[Lupine00]

3 hours ago, Shion11 said:

i used both struggle idles and devious lore patch, and now my poor drunken dragonborn has problems with animations with her head moving into her body and her leg does the same thing. any way to fix this?

Please describe how you have your game set up?

I like your rubber-equipped dominant in the screenshots?

What mechanics are you using to create this scenario?

[Lupine00]

13 hours ago, HexBolt8 said:

I don't think you need to be concerned about problems from removing ITM records.  ITM means exactly what it says, Identical To Master.  The record is marked as changed but doesn't actually change any values.  Since you didn't change anything, the mod doesn't need the ITM record and you can safely remove it.  If there were an actual change to the terrain, the record wouldn't be flagged as ITM.

ITM records usually ARE a problem, and that's why so many guides talk about cleaning them.

 

The problem arises when you add other mods that are NOT ITM, and the mod with unnecessary ITMs is causing avoidable overrides of those changes, wrecking them.

 

Devious Stories, for example, is riddled with ITMs, very, very few of them are needed. They are essentially wild edits caused by the CK being rubbish.

 

These are harmless, until they break fixes in USLEEP, or override your lighting mod, or weather mod, or NPC mod factions, or whatever it happens to be that day.

As DBF suggests you put DS late in your LO, this is a likely occurrence.

 

If you put your weather and lighting after DS, then they don't get smashed, but occasionally it can cause an issue with DS.

In the case of SD+, you really DO need it last in your LO, because you can't even start a new game with it in safely - you MUST add it after the game is started.

 

This causes big problems with the wild edits in SD+, but there are many edits in SD+ that you don't want overwritten by another mod, and guess what mod is most likely to overwrite it? A mod full of ITMs.

 

See the problem now? ITMs are not good. At best they create pitfalls in mod ordering. At worst they break your game, and usually, they require a LOT of tedious hand merging to work around.

 

 

Tes5Edit has facilities to help cleaning ITMs, and it's good to use them, as it makes your mod cause players less troubles. You, as the modder are in a position to know whether a perticular ITM is really needed. Players merging the mod often do not know whether a particular edit is important or not, and have to guess. Don't make players guess. If you have ITMs, clean your mod, and if you have any that must remain, then explain (why) they are needed on your front page.

 

 

In the case of ITMs in DL, related to shop edits, if they are genuine ITMs, you do not need to keep them. The CK adds such ITMs when they can be avoided. The way to determine for sure is to look in Tes5Edit, and then you'll see if those edits are required because real changes are hanging off them.

 

In most cases I think you'll find that you're just merging back something you don't need to, and making DL fight against USLEEP and lighting or weather mods. There might be one or two changes where you need it. Questionable though.

[Zaflis]

28 minutes ago, Lupine00 said:

I get the impression the Lore patch is the most "complete" and delivers your intent the best?

 

He described it on previous page. Lore patch = Struggle idles + more.

Most notably lore patch renames devious keys and many devices, such as "rubber" mostly becomes "oily" etc (going by memory, not had time to check latest yet). Changelog should apply...

[Lupine00]

1 hour ago, Zaflis said:

He described it on previous page. Lore patch = Struggle idles + more.

But that's going to get lost almost immediately. See how I missed it, even though it was only one page back?

What about when it's three pages back, or ten?

 

It needs to be on the front page, right at the top, so you don't need to read through all the version notes to find it.

Otherwise, you open that list of items to download right at the top of the page, and see files, and have no idea what they are.

 

I worked it out, but then I am an existing user, and as soon as I saw a release, I went directly to the release notes for the version to see what was new in it.

People downloading the mod for the first time are going to start at the top, and may never look at those release notes.

 

I didn't go looking for some note in support, because the information is already on the front page, but the LOCATION is hard to find and the FORMAT of that information is confusing:

It does not clearly explain why to pick one patch over the other.

It is also quite unclear on what version of DD you need to use, other than 4.3 works.

[Lupine00]

I don't know if it bothers anyone else, but I always get stuck trying to walk in or out of Elarie's shop porch area.

You can get up and down the stairs fine.

It looks like there's space to go out the side too, which is at ground level, but there isn't quite and you get stuck.

 

Maybe it's possible to scale the entire house exterior vertically a bit (in a single axis) so there's enough gap under the roof there?

 

Alternatively stick some objects in the way - a bit of fence or something - so there's no temptation to go that way?

Spoiler

 

[Shion11]

2 hours ago, Lupine00 said:

Please describe how you have your game set up?

I like your rubber-equipped dominant in the screenshots?

What mechanics are you using to create this scenario?

i have a few mods i'm testing, and i have DD, other devious shops and some clothing. have some basic Qol mods and slavery mods. and the very problematic struggles and devious path active.

i'm using sexlab aroused followers to get sex pretty much when i want it.

i would like some help if having both of these patches is causing this issue.

Heres All the active stuff

Load order.txt plugins.txt

[Lupine00]

1 hour ago, Shion11 said:

i have a few mods i'm testing, and i have DD, other devious shops and some clothing. have some basic Qol mods and slavery mods. and the very problematic struggles and devious path active.

i'm using sexlab aroused followers to get sex pretty much when i want it.

i would like some help if having both of these patches is causing this issue.

Heres All the active stuff

I was mainly asking as I was curious about your setup.

Lots of interesting rubber mods there that I don't use.

You're in CBBE world though, and that may (or may not) have something to do with it.

Some of your LO is a bit strangely ordered, but that probably has nothing at all to do with this.

 

I don't think I can offer any great suggestions as to your problem.

Struggles shouldn't play during sex scenes, but there's probably nothing to stop sex scenes starting during struggles, and that's a long-standing issue that DD/DCL have no fix for, because it relies on the sex mod being aware of something happening.

Struggles could possibly be written to use a scene to encapsulate them, and that might stop some stuff sticking its nose in, but some sex mods may not even check InScene().

 

Does it happen constantly, or always?

In terms of offsets, you can just adjust those for the scene.

 

But it looks more like your PC is rendering as if in first-person mode or something else. Maybe you can see clearer in your game, but it looks like everything except the body has vanished.

 

I was on the looking for camera related mods more than anything else, and you do have Enhanced Camera. It's possible that it's involved.

There's also the mcg Devious Devices motion patch. Might be brittle.

You could try a clean re-FNIS.

 

The usual best course is to pull out absolutely everything except the minimum mods suspected in the problem and see if it's still there.

Then remove mods until it's fixed, then you can start to dig into the exact cause.

 

I noticed some mods that ... well ... I wouldn't use them  

Devious Attributes - doesn't do much - DF introduces willpower that actually does something, and works with SLS.

Devious Consequences - SLD sort of does all that and a LOT, LOT more.

Devious Punishment Devices - can make any device do some of those things with SLD, and in general most of the devices clash with everything.

BWitch - I used it for a while, but it felt pointless - the talk through followers is a bit weak, and the rest is just easy mode where you get your mana charged just for being hit.

HDT HH - this is a very heavy loading mod and can definitely cause problems, especially in a load order like yours

I have a patch the moderates the problems with it on my blog.

Devious Training - you can get some of this from SLD, there's stuff unique to DT, but the real issue is that you're running an ultra-cutting-edge-alpha release there. DT3 is really not ready for release yet.

DWA - again, you can get most of this from SLD, just not the actual dripping.

PAH - it's a big mod to combine with all that other stuff. If you aren't actually, you know, using it, then maybe remove it? If it's core to your game, maybe some other things could be kicked to give it a bit more space to breathe.

YPS - this overlaps a fair bit with DT3, is no longer supported and has many unfixed issues. I guess a lot of people put up with them, but it's a very heavy load just to get your nails done  

 

 

[worik]

1 hour ago, Lupine00 said:

Alternatively stick some objects in the way - a bit of fence or something - so there's no temptation to go that way?

Confirming the head bump  

[Shion11]

1 hour ago, Lupine00 said:

I was mainly asking as I was curious about your setup.

Lots of interesting rubber mods there that I don't use.

You're in CBBE world though, and that may (or may not) have something to do with it.

Some of your LO is a bit strangely ordered, but that probably has nothing at all to do with this.

 

I don't think I can offer any great suggestions as to your problem.

Struggles shouldn't play during sex scenes, but there's probably nothing to stop sex scenes starting during struggles, and that's a long-standing issue that DD/DCL have no fix for, because it relies on the sex mod being aware of something happening.

Struggles could possibly be written to use a scene to encapsulate them, and that might stop some stuff sticking its nose in, but some sex mods may not even check InScene().

 

Does it happen constantly, or always?

In terms of offsets, you can just adjust those for the scene.

 

But it looks more like your PC is rendering as if in first-person mode or something else. Maybe you can see clearer in your game, but it looks like everything except the body has vanished.

 

I was on the looking for camera related mods more than anything else, and you do have Enhanced Camera. It's possible that it's involved.

There's also the mcg Devious Devices motion patch. Might be brittle.

You could try a clean re-FNIS.

 

The usual best course is to pull out absolutely everything except the minimum mods suspected in the problem and see if it's still there.

Then remove mods until it's fixed, then you can start to dig into the exact cause.

 

I noticed some mods that ... well ... I wouldn't use them  

Devious Attributes - doesn't do much - DF introduces willpower that actually does something, and works with SLS.

Devious Consequences - SLD sort of does all that and a LOT, LOT more.

Devious Punishment Devices - can make any device do some of those things with SLD, and in general most of the devices clash with everything.

BWitch - I used it for a while, but it felt pointless - the talk through followers is a bit weak, and the rest is just easy mode where you get your mana charged just for being hit.

HDT HH - this is a very heavy loading mod and can definitely cause problems, especially in a load order like yours

I have a patch the moderates the problems with it on my blog.

Devious Training - you can get some of this from SLD, there's stuff unique to DT, but the real issue is that you're running an ultra-cutting-edge-alpha release there. DT3 is really not ready for release yet.

DWA - again, you can get most of this from SLD, just not the actual dripping.

PAH - it's a big mod to combine with all that other stuff. If you aren't actually, you know, using it, then maybe remove it? If it's core to your game, maybe some other things could be kicked to give it a bit more space to breathe.

YPS - this overlaps a fair bit with DT3, is no longer supported and has many unfixed issues. I guess a lot of people put up with them, but it's a very heavy load just to get your nails done  

 

 

turns out the latest mod armbinders have hands was messing with doggy style animations. disreguard the struggle + lore infighting.

i've been modding since i got goty and i'm doing rookie mistakes. i'll consider most of these mods i consider essential as non essential.

[Lupine00]

The female 360 mod causes all kinds of problems, though not the sort of thing you were seeing.

The CG tweaks are probably good, as they change a limited set of animations, but you never can tell how these things will interact.

I don't use things like the old rubber suits that need HDT HH, as they are based off a fairly low-resolution CBBE mesh, but I expect they're perfectly functional.

 

I don't think you were using SLS, but were using STA. This is unusual, as most people who want STA find a lot of things in SexLab Survival they like.

 

Armbinders with hands is a funny one, as the changes were never merged into DD, and arguably aren't needed at all.

DD can do linked gloves without needing it, and there are no binders where you want to see the hands that don't already unhide them.

I don't think you'll miss it.

[Xuvish]

Where do you go to meet the lore mongers?

 

I found a ceremonial urn and when to the Nordic Archives, and waited outside for Hjorni the Distracted for over 24 hours in game and she never came outside the archives.

 

Do they roam around Skyrim randomly?

[Xuvish]

How does the devious allies scaling system work?

 

What settings do you use to make them more dominant?

 

Do they eventually tie you up on their own through a "force greet" conversation?

[Lupine00]

Spotted a small bug:

 

When configuring device removal costs in the Devious Lore MCM:

 

The slider for cat-suit removal cost doesn't work.

When you configure the straight-jacket removal cost, it changes the -apparent- cat-suit cost AND the straight-jacket.

 

Afterwards, I'm not sure *what* cost the cat-suit removal has, what shows in the slider, or what shows in the display before you open the slider.

 

Looks like the code for these two is cross-linked somehow.

 

 

BTW - loving the guard and jailer mechanics!

The chance of going to jail or being raped is a good trade-off mechanic for "free removals".

Being able to get removals from Fences is awesome. Finally, a character type who really should be in that business.

 

For example, I can set my game so it costs a fortune to remove a collar with a guard or jailer - because a collar probably means an escaped slave - but a Fence will remove a collar cheaply. It's wonderful to have that flexibility of configuration.

 

 

I can't fully understand how to configure the "chances" exactly though. What values are sets of weights, and what values are straight chances? It's hard to figure out. Also, some values have a % on them, others don't. What does this signify? I just leave the defaults for now.

 

Maybe a tweak to the tool-tips could make this clearer?

 

 

DL's "problem" is the same as DCL: it has all these interesting characters, so as a player, you want more quests with them, more interactions, more ways to get into a mess. Just more. Any one of those characters is enough to base a whole quest mod around.

 

 

For a future thing - what if each lore-mistress were linked to addictive devices that had a unique addiction in "DiD Consequences" ?

i.e.

The devices they sell are, in general, not necessarily addictive (apart from as already implemented with generic addictions)...

But some devices sold by those NPCs could be specifically addictive, and would also be beneficial in some way.

 

After you're earned it by proving your commitment...

They could sell you "special" devices, with "special" magic, that:

(a) are extra hard for anyone but them to remove (no hope struggling and guards/jailers/fences have lower chance to remove)

(b) create a specific addiction that helps with trauma

(c) may also trigger a generic addiction such as gag, belt, etc.

(d) that offer some other benefits when worn

 

A bit like the Aradia sets ... but that you buy ... and that also have addiction.

 

So, you could buy various rubber items, or a whole set of them, and they would be viable equipment for their respective slots, but would have special effects when worn together, some of which might be negative, and initially hidden. For example, applies an armbinder to you after a certain number of sex events, or a bubble hood if you eat too much food, or whatever... and you get an addiction to wearing that particular SET and don't want to give it up. Because it's cursed, right?  

 

It would be a fairly subtle extension of what's there already, as there are already item sets, but the specific addictions and hidden Aradia style effects would be fresh. 

[Leeeeeroy]

2 hours ago, Xuvish said:

Where do you go to meet the lore mongers?

 

I found a ceremonial urn and when to the Nordic Archives, and waited outside for Hjorni the Distracted for over 24 hours in game and she never came outside the archives.

 

Do they roam around Skyrim randomly?

Not sure if it's intentional, but both mix blood, nordic archives and the vigilante homes are locked. I only waited for the nord to see if she went out, but it never happened. If  i unlock the door with the console and enter, they ask me to leave. The other ones are working fine as far as i'm concerned.

 

EDIT: Ok, i undertand how it works now, i updated mine from a pretty old version apparently, just talk to inkeepers asking about strange people and you'll get a quest for it.

[Lupine00]

It would make sense to disable the follower helping if they are in the DF faction, as it conflicts with DF where you have to pay for device removal, or there are other limitations.

 

In that case they could still sometimes fit devices, based on the PC willpower being low.

[Xuvish]

7 hours ago, Leeeeeroy said:

Not sure if it's intentional, but both mix blood, nordic archives and the vigilante homes are locked. I only waited for the nord to see if she went out, but it never happened. If  i unlock the door with the console and enter, they ask me to leave. The other ones are working fine as far as i'm concerned.

 

EDIT: Ok, i undertand how it works now, i updated mine from a pretty old version apparently, just talk to inkeepers asking about strange people and you'll get a quest for it.

What is the conversation line you are supposed to see?

 

I have 2.02 and 2.0 lore patch installed.  I upgraded from an older version.  In the older versions you saw a dialogue that asked if there was any odd looking people around.

 

I don't see that dialogue on my version.

[Zaflis]

1 hour ago, Xuvish said:

I have 2.02 and 2.0 lore patch installed.  I upgraded from an older version.  In the older versions you saw a dialogue that asked if there was any odd looking people around.

 

I don't see that dialogue on my version.

It's still there (for innkeepers) but there's a day or more delay for the option to appear. Check MCM options too.

[Xuvish]

I set my MCM menu for 0.5 days.

 

I waited for 3 days at the Bannerrd Mare and kept talking to Hulda after each day.

 

The dialogue never came up.

 

Is it the same dialogue, or is it a new one?

[Trioculus]

4 hours ago, Xuvish said:

I set my MCM menu for 0.5 days.

 

I waited for 3 days at the Bannerrd Mare and kept talking to Hulda after each day.

 

The dialogue never came up.

 

Is it the same dialogue, or is it a new one?

I was wondering the same thing. Didn't have any dialogue whatsoever.

Then, I used one of the artifacts (it was an Old Grimoire I recovered from Valtheim towers) and then the dialogue for the innkeepers appeared. In my case I used the artifact while at max arousal and got the backfire, but I suppose it should work even with no backfire.

 

As for the locked door issue with vigil Laekette and others, dunno, did not test it.

[Xuvish]

1 hour ago, Trioculus said:

I was wondering the same thing. Didn't have any dialogue whatsoever.

Then, I used one of the artifacts (it was an Old Grimoire I recovered from Valtheim towers) and then the dialogue for the innkeepers appeared. In my case I used the artifact while at max arousal and got the backfire, but I suppose it should work even with no backfire.

 

As for the locked door issue with vigil Laekette and others, dunno, did not test it.

I finally got the dialogue.  I guess it took a while in game time.  I tried fast waiting but that didn't work.  After playing the game for a few hours and talking to an innkeeper for another quest, I noticed the dialogue.  I think you need to retrieve the items for the Lore Mongers to open their shops.