All things Cyberpunk 2077 General Thread

[Kitty]

Voiced protagonists work quite well, provided the characters are at least somewhat ancillary to what's happening, and it's "The Story" rather than "Their Story" you're supposed to be focusing on.

 

Say... old Baldur's Gate, XCOM games..  I mean, sure.  There's room to get attached to the characters (or not), but the story is and will be what it is regardless.  Other places it can work quite well would be games along the lines of the Arkham titles.  Yes, the story is pretty damn linear, but I mean.. you really kind of expect that going in.  It's a freaking Batman game.  You're gonna go beat up some super villains, detective some crap, beat down hundreds of thugs along the way.. There's really not a lot of wide, game-changing choice expected there, and again, that's fine, and can work quite well.  Same could be said of basically any 'adventure' style game in which the character and what needs to happen is already fairly well defined before you even watch the opening cutscene.  Tomb Raider reboots come tom mind, among tons of others.

 

Cases though where you're expecting anything remotely open-world, sandbox style, or *cough* CRPG themed (I won't even call anything ever set to 1s and 0s an 'RPG' and only grudgingly even acknowledge the existence of 'CRPG' as sort of a sub-genre, sort of), a voiced hero/heroine should *really* be avoided.  As you pointed out, it really narrows your freedom and options and when you're talking about a game that promises and bills on these very ideas, IMO, that's a really stupid  move.

 

To this day, I still greatly prefer old Fallout 1 & 2 over any of the 'modern' incarnations of the series.  Sure, they were a different style and whatnot, which is another discussion completely, but where they really shine in my eyes is that you only even got a few "talking head" NPCs, which made them feel really special and fun, and while ok sure, every play-through, ultimately you have to find a way to accomplish the same basic "to-do" list, but because your dialogue is mostly text, and there's SO many different ways to build a character and go about figuring out different WAYS to do those tasks, it FEELS like there's just so much more freedom and replay value than most of the garbage today.

 

Mind you, I'm not saying ALL modern games suck.  Just that in most cases, I think they've got their priorities out of whack.  I don't much care how pretty and shiny the thing is if the story and depth are crap to begin with.  Crap on your shoe is still crap on your shoe, no matter how many million colors it is or what resolution you view it at.  Just sayin' 

 

[Ernest Lemmingway]

16 hours ago, endgame † addiction said:

All I know is I would take William Gibson's word over CDPR what cyberpunk is or isn't.

That much I agree with.

[prinyo]

Well. it didn't take long:

 

[Guest]

On 1/26/2021 at 6:55 PM, Wolfstorm321 said:

Cyberpunk2077 is objectively ugly, and it will set the trend for the times to come. Indie games will have cellphone graphics, while AAA games will try to follow Cyberpunk2077 graphical design. What a bleak future videogames have now. 

 

 

Like I said, here is a picture from a game already following Cyberpunk2077 graphical design: 

 

 

Its not only ugly, its painful to look at. 

Worse, there are people who thinks this is "realistic". 

There is a reason why more and more people are sticking with old games. 

 

[peculiaris]

29 minutes ago, Wolfstorm321 said:

 

 

Like I said, here is a picture from a game already following Cyberpunk2077 graphical design: 

 

 

Its not only ugly, its painful to look at. 

Worse, there are people who thinks this is "realistic". 

There is a reason why more and more people are sticking with old games. 

 

That looks nothing like cyberpunk...

[Mez558]

22 hours ago, Ernest Lemmingway said:

That much I agree with.

 

Except that's like playing/looking at the Dungeons and Dragons MMO and then saying it looks nothing like Tolkien's Middle earth.

And while Gibson's Neuromancer et al are obviously massive influences on Pondsmith's RPG/World, Cyberpunk 2077 is based on the tabletop RPG and not from Gibson's work directly.

 

 

 

[Ernest Lemmingway]

3 hours ago, Mez558 said:

 

Except that's like playing/looking at the Dungeons and Dragons MMO and then saying it looks nothing like Tolkien's Middle earth.

And while Gibson's Neuromancer et al are obviously massive influences on Pondsmith's RPG/World, Cyberpunk 2077 is based on the tabletop RPG and not from Gibson's work directly.

Look at what I agreed with. I literally meant I will take what Gibson says is cyberpunk. I didn't say I won't take what others say it is if they remain faithful to the core ideas of the genre. Also look at what I didn't include from the post I quoted; those parts I disagree with.

[Mez558]

14 minutes ago, Ernest Lemmingway said:

Look at what I agreed with. I literally meant I will take what Gibson says is cyberpunk. I didn't say I won't take what others say it is if they remain faithful to the core ideas of the genre. Also look at what I didn't include from the post I quoted; those parts I disagree with.

 

Apologies if I grabbed the wrong end of the stick. I can't see the post you quoted to know what you didn't agree with and this thread is entitled "All things Cyberpunk 2077" rather than "All things Cyberpunk" hence me, apparently, jumping to the wrong conclusion.

 

Anyway, forgetting the Game and (happily) derailling the thread slightly.

With Gibson's works being what most people would consider quintessencially "Cyberpunk" and are clearly the inspiration behind Pondsmith's RPG and other Tabletop RPG's of that Genre, of which I can only think of FASA's Shadowrun (Cyberpunk meets D&D.. He was Big, even for a Troll. She beautiful, even for an Elf. They were unimaginitive, even for FASA writers) but I am sure there are others. I agree, of things Cyberpunk, then Gibson > Pondsmith > CDPR Devs > Bathroom Mold > The CDPR Board

Although Gibson neither created the name nor applied it to the genre, I think Neuromancer might of been the first book get assigned to the (sub)genre he wasn't the only author to have work placed in it.

 

On another note...

I, until just now, thought Gibson, along with Bruce Sterling,  were responsible for giving the subgenre of Steampunk it's name when they wrote The Difference Engine but I just googled it and apparently not. Although, in the same way their works are considered responsible for establishing the Cyberpunk genre (although not creating it) it does seem The Difference Engine did the same to the Steampunk genre.

 

Have I gone far enough off track?

[Trykz]

2 hours ago, Mez558 said:

Although Gibson neither created the name nor applied it to the genre, I think Neuromancer might of been the first book get assigned to the (sub)genre he wasn't the only author to have work placed in it.

 

Read Shockwave Rider (1975) by John Brunner when you have a chance.

[Mez558]

6 hours ago, Trykz said:

 

Read Shockwave Rider (1975) by John Brunner when you have a chance.

 

Why?

If it's a good read then thanks for the suggestion.

 

If not.. Why?

 

EDIT: Sorry if that comes across as abrupt, I think I know what you're getting at but jumping to the wrong conclusion appears to be a forté of mine so I thought it best you explained.

 

 

 

[prinyo]

This QandA from Goodreads about the book :

 

 

Q: Is this the first novel to actually use the word 'Cyberpunk' or does that belong to Neuromancer?

 

A: I can not really answer that question but would like to point out that both books complement each other if the reader wants to understand the Cyberpunk culture. I think it was either Wau Holland or Peter Glaser who said/wrote that The Shockwave Rider describes the Utopia of Cyberpunk society while Neuromancer describes the Dystopia that we are going to have.

 

 

 

I'm currently struggling with  Richard Morgan's Thin Air so I'm afraid to start yet another CP book, but definitely adding Shockwave Rider to the wishlist for later.

[Trykz]

7 hours ago, Mez558 said:

 

Why?

If it's a good read then thanks for the suggestion.

 

If not.. Why?

 

EDIT: Sorry if that comes across as abrupt, I think I know what you're getting at but jumping to the wrong conclusion appears to be a forté of mine so I thought it best you explained.

 

 

 

 

It's a good read. It has subtle connections to cyberpunk-esque elements (like computer hacking via telecommunication systems, and

it's dystopian future setting), and a vastly segmented society comprised of a wide variety of socio-economic factors. It's been a fair few

years since I read it (early 80's), and have it on my list to read again. I read it while my son was in and out of the hospital with apnea

and bradycardia problems during his first year.

[Ernest Lemmingway]

For my fellow weebs, shows like Bubblegum Crisis (Mega-Tokyo 2032, not that 2040 fluff remake) and its spin-offs (A.D. Police and Bubblegum Crash) are examples of classic cyberpunk anime. The manga and even P&P RPG are worth it if you can find them.

[Mez558]

9 minutes ago, Trykz said:

 

It's a good read. It has subtle connections to cyberpunk-esque elements (like computer hacking via telecommunication systems, and

it's dystopian future setting), and a vastly segmented society comprised of a wide variety of socio-economic factors. It's been a fair few

years since I read it (early 80's), and have it on my list to read again. I read it while my son was in and out of the hospital with apnea

and bradycardia problems during his first year.

 

See, I was right not to jump to (wrong) conclusions. I'll have do that (or, not do that?) more often. ?

 

To coin a phrase, from a completely different genre, I will put it on the list.

 

The last cyberpunk novel I read was actually an irreverant parody of the genre and is probably my favourite to date, it had me laughing out loud on the train to work. Snow Crash by Neal Stephenson. If you've not read that and you're in the mood for a light hearted piss take give it a try.

 

[Mez558]

34 minutes ago, prinyo said:

This QandA from Goodreads about the book :

 

 

Q: Is this the first novel to actually use the word 'Cyberpunk' or does that belong to Neuromancer?

 

A: I can not really answer that question but would like to point out that both books complement each other if the reader wants to understand the Cyberpunk culture. I think it was either Wau Holland or Peter Glaser who said/wrote that The Shockwave Rider describes the Utopia of Cyberpunk society while Neuromancer describes the Dystopia that we are going to have.

 

I originally thought it was a reviewer/critic that first used the phrase when they were reviewing Neuromancer and it stuck but I was googling it yesterday.

 

Apparently the person that first coined the phrase for the Genre was Gardner Dozois (I know who Dozois is from his anthologies with George R.R. Martin but that info about him first applying the name for the works fo Gibson, Sterling et al came from Wikipedia so who knows if it's true) but the actual term "Cyber Punk" was first used/created by Bruce Bethke as the title of a short story in 1983.

 

This sort of confirms the Dozois info.

https://www.neondystopia.com/cyberpunk-books-fiction/the-early-life-of-the-word-cyberpunk/

[27X]

On 2/17/2021 at 10:51 AM, Mez558 said:

but the actual term "Cyber Punk" was first used/created by Bruce Bethke as the title of a short story in 1983.

 

As a discrete term. Cyber/Punk and "cyberpunks" had been around since the late 70s, especially in eurofiction, particularly in comics.

[27X]

On 2/14/2021 at 2:20 PM, phillout said:

 

I dunno. I gave it a shot. Even after all those negative reviews I still bought the game, it's not that big money anyway.

 

The game kinda... well, I don't want to say "sucks", it would be unfair. "A sloppy job" would probably be a proper English term, I guess. Dumbass IA that makes Skyrim NPCs aka "it's just my imagination" with an arrow sticking out of his eye look like a bunch of nuclear physicists. Enemy NPCs know you're here but don't bother actually searching - they just stand in place and curse you (in Russian, what a surprise). OP AF stealth from level 1. Absolutely boring combat with spongy enemies and no problems getting shot yourself either - as long as you have stimpacks or whatever they are named. Absolutely annoying driving, even with mods - I'm a good driver IRL, but this games makes me sick of it. Car/bike sims of 20th century were better. Atrocious animations - I took a look at my character once while running downstairs - and promised to never ever try it again, because apparently IK doesn't exist in "next gen" games, something that Skyrim could do perfectly well. My character was literally flying over the stairs. This is some serious Oblivion-level "next gen" we're talking about here.

 

And the plot... I don't like it either. Again, it's only my opinion, but I think Bethesda games give you more freedom from the start. You start in Helgen, you've being lead to Riverwood - but after that no one arrives to Riverwood to pick you up right now. In FO4 you leave the Vault - and then you're only given directions, but not pushed into the MQ. You can go anywhere. CP77, OTOH, feels "pushy" all the way. "Hey, V, I'm waiting for you downstairs". What about giving me a direction and a choice?

 

The 1PV idea was a big fail, IMO. It makes your character completely disappear, you don't see the character acting, talking, etc. It's you saying all those words and do stuff. Makes it real hard to do any RP.

 

Yes, the characters and writing it good. If it was a movie - it would be a good one. But as a game - it kinda fails at all levels but this one. Please note I don't mention any bugs - haven't encountered a single one so far, I guess waiting for patches was a good idea. I don't complain about performance either - either my system is good enough to play it on Ultra, or they made some good optimizations. But the actual gameplay is a failure no matter where I look. It will take years for the game to mature to the point of being real good, this will take a lot of efforts from developers and modders. But so far it's just mediocre at best.

 

 

or you could just say "it's unfinished".

[FauxFurry]

It was the Best (Open Source)Kickstarter Early Access Live Service Falsely Advertised Video Game of the Year. It was an award well earned. They were truly unparalleled in their field. 

 

[Ernest Lemmingway]

On 2/18/2021 at 4:30 PM, 27X said:

or you could just say "it's unfinished".

The main reason I avoid buying video games day-one these days. "Wake me when it's actually done. Then I'll play it."

[ToJKa]

Figures, the hack delays the next patch:

https://forums.cdprojektred.com/index.php?threads/patch-1-2-development-update.11081719/

[MilfSimmer]

3 hours ago, ToJKa said:

Figures, the hack delays the next patch:

https://forums.cdprojektred.com/index.php?threads/patch-1-2-development-update.11081719/

I thought they said the "Cyber attack" did nothing to them, I smell excuses over excuses.

From my point of view they aren't "fixing" they are still making the game and they just need a ton of time.
This is something I thought about but I saw no one saying anything about it, since they released the game they just gave a base of what ppl want and what not to other companies. This means they are still getting pushed from who ever are their bosses for finishing as soon as possible the "fixes" and start working on something else while the rest have plenty of time to make the game CDProj didnt release. 
Every day "fixing" Cyberpunk 2077 is a day of work on a new game, better and improved for the others. 

This is like literally releasing a car before its even half done and giving the chance to copy or make something similar and better to every giant competitor like BMW, Audi, Mercedes etc. 

[peculiaris]

1 hour ago, MilfSimmer said:

I thought they said the "Cyber attack" did nothing to them

 

They said the complete opposite...

[PerfidiousPantsuPincher]

1 hour ago, peculiaris said:

 

They said the complete opposite...

Exactly. It was clearly stated that the hackers had encrypted all of their data, forcing CDPR to restore all files from backups. That takes a bit of time, plus if there was any data that had not been backed up it would be lost, forcing them to do that work all over again. Furthermore, some time is probably also lost because the authorities need to examine the servers etc.

[Mez558]

3 hours ago, MilfSimmer said:

I thought they said the "Cyber attack" did nothing to them, I smell excuses over excuses.

 

Going by the Ransom note they were locked out of at least one of their servers. If they needed to restore that from backups that would account for some delay.

While you expect them to have contingencies against such things a delay was hardly surprising.

 

3 hours ago, MilfSimmer said:

From my point of view they aren't "fixing" they are still making the game and they just need a ton of time.

 

I agree with what Trykz has been saying on this, they owe Sony a game and that will be their first priority.

Fixes for the PC version will likely trickle through slowly until then fulfilled that.

After that we should see some fixes... Whether CDPR then bothers to "finish" the game remains to be seen but I don't see that happening this year, if at all.

 

3 hours ago, MilfSimmer said:

This is like literally releasing a car before its even half done and giving the chance to copy or make something similar and better to every giant competitor like BMW, Audi, Mercedes etc. 

 

This is nothing new. How broke was Skyrim on release? And even after all Bethesda's updates so many fixes were done by the modding community.

TW3 was hardly bug free on release. It's not entirely bug free now.

The big difference with 2077 is the amount of hype around it's release was unheard of.

 

The Cynic/Pessimist in me does have to wonder that, after they have the game running satisfactorily on all platforms, will they actually continue to work on it and make it something like  hype said it would be? Or will they just cut their losses, knowing that nothing they do will ever be good enough now?

[Zor2k13]

Nobody wants to dump moar money into a money pit so you can expect them to cut and run just as soon as they can. Even with a bailout from some eccentric investor or some screwy euro govt over there it would have to be really big to fill that hole now.