sse Paradise Halls Enhanced (pahe) Special Edition with the customary addons

[CliftonJD]

2 hours ago, Martok73 said:

Sorry I try but yeah sometimes it bugs out for me and won't let me do multiple quotes and sometimes it bugs out when I try to put alot of quotes in the same post.

ya, 1 of the recent updates to loverslab changed that. used to be more user friendly in that regard-i hate the change as well. i'm also tech proficient enough i discovered its mostly an issue with the site limiting your choices to which browser you use for best results

2 hours ago, Martok73 said:

Sorry, I'm old and my mind doesn't work right

ya, i can relate to that, instead of 2 strokes i had a head collision against a truck while riding a scooter. my understanding that a different browser has less problems with the updated site isn't enough to surpass comfortable with the browser i already use and i don't believe i should be forced to change browsers every 3 to 4 years for the site to function as intended

Edited January 22, 2022 by CliftonJD

[Martok73]

14 minutes ago, CliftonJD said:

that to me indicates a sl filter is preventing you from getting consenting animations, that you had the consenting dialogs already and only saw them different when the options are limited to aggressive/rape sex--"if the slave is restrained via the "I'm going to tie you up" or the "I'm going to make sure you stay here" dialog options"<<that. while all the other methods leave a chance at rape or consenting, tied slaves only get raped. so if that's the only time you saw the options change, then something was preventing you from seeing the correct animations during consenting situations

The SL Filters is downright shity imho, cause I get both consensual and aggressive animations in the popup all the time. The only time I strictly get aggressive only animations is when I have the slaved tied up with either of the two tie up options and the stupid filter starts with many animations then suddenly switches to only having one single animation and it's the same damn animation all the time, no matter whether I choose oral, vaginal, or anal in the punishment tied dialog tree, you know the one that says "All tied up, let's see you refuse me now" or some shit like that, which leads to the "Your cunt's gonna hurt for a week after this" or "let's see how rebelious you are after I ream your ass", those lines... sadly SL Filter fucks shit up on my end all the damn time and I end up with the scene starting with one bound animation only to have it suddenly swap to another animation and stop the hundreds of bound animations I have from showing up. So I'm stuck with the same animation every flippin' time, which as I explained earlier is why I stopped tieing slaves up prior to having punishment sex with them to avoid that. Sadly the only way I can get the "Your cunt's gonna hurt" and "ream your ass" dialog is if they are tied up . But yeah thanks to a shitty filter in SL and animation authors not tagging their animations correctly I get both aggressive and consensual animations showing up for everything except when they are tied, then I just get one single animation cause the filter sucks. This btw also happens with other mods that start sex scenes as well, so it's not just PAHE the problem has to be a combination of the animation tags and the crappy filter.

 

22 minutes ago, CliftonJD said:

mentioned that on the previous page, its coming soon for zaz to compliment hydra slaves.

Nice, sadly my brain isn't working right now and I already forgot what we were talking about here.. What are hydra slaves?

 

24 minutes ago, CliftonJD said:

hmm, wonder if that's another temporary display bug like the sex stat that hsh used to have issues with. maybe its self-correcting if you check back later

Not sure, but I do know that since HSH uses 3 separate sex stats and PAHE only uses one, that the display bug is still very much a thing when moving slaves back and forth between the two mods. I would guess that if both mods used the exact same stats there wouldn't be any issues, but that is only a guess. Which I know it's just a display bug that affects the spell you can cast on slaves and not the actual stats that are shown in the PAHE MCM nor the HSH MCM. The spell will "catch up" to the real stats if you have sex or whip them at least once after moving them from one mod to another and the spell also works while the slaves are controlled via HSH as well, but there is still the "stat lag" that doesn't update real time like the MCM does.

 

28 minutes ago, CliftonJD said:

soon..unless i keep getting more requests for a bigger update

haha cool, I was just poking btw, not actually rushing thus the "grin" and "wink"

 

29 minutes ago, CliftonJD said:

if the feature is working, their stats should increase as their combat training increases...but i have found what could be considered a bug preventing their combat training from increasing their stats. seems the regen health functions look at the base actor health so i might need to adjust that to cover their increased stats from training

I may have found another bug that may or may not be related to that as well. I have noticed that if a slave starts out with lower health numbers when first enslaved, then combat will raise the health stat as it's level goes up. However if the slave already had high health then the combat stat does not increase no matter how high it gets. I just am not sure as to what the actual health level that this bug begins to appear is without alot of further testing.

 

On another note, sometimes, but not always there is a bug where PAHE will absolutely destroy a npcs health when it clones them during the enslavement process. I'll give you an example after I started noticing several slaves that only had 50 health but had several hundred magicka and stamina. I used the console to check a bandit chief's health and it was just over 600. Then I enslaved him and his health dropped to 50 while the magic and stam stats stayed the same. Another example is when I enslaved the Ebony Warrior, he has 2071 health according to the wiki and what the console shows when checking him. After I enslaved him to use him as a guard, his health had dropped to 50 while his other two stats stayed the same. I first noticed this a couple days ago so it just recently started happening and nothing in my mod list or load order has changed, so no clue as to what the hell is causing it.

 

41 minutes ago, CliftonJD said:

you're forgetting slaves would naturally be more difficult than they already are. currently they already consent to a sexual punishment about 99% of the time when they're not tied up. like they have a way of showing preference to it over the whip, while sex just for having sex would make sense to be more difficult to achieve consent

If I am understanding this correctly then it would correlate with a comment I made earlier that a slave would much rather comply with a sexual command as opposed to getting a beating or even worse. Which in reality the sex is still not consensual per say it is the lesser of the two evils, (get fucked or get beat) as punishment for whatever reason they are being punished for. Now am I to assume that what you are saying is that if they are not tied up and you use the "You need to be punished" dialog option, then select "I'm going to fuck you", and the slave responds with anything other than "NO" then as far as the mod is concerned that slave is giving "consent"? For me I can't tell just by looking at the animation list because as I've said the stupid filter shows both types of animations no matter how the scene is started unless the npc is tied then it ends up with only one . Sometimes however when I go thru that dialog chain for "punishment sex" the slave never says a word at all and sometimes they respond with "whatever you say" which to me is like them saying ok fine whatever I don't give a fuck just don't hit me, ya know. But back to the filter problem, no matter what the response is from any slave I have if I use the Punishment dialog to start sex, then SexLab always registers it as aggressive and counts it toward the victim/aggressor counters and never ever counts it as consensual, so I don't know if that is a SL Filter bug, or a PAHE bug IF there is supposed to be a chance at having "consensual" sex using the "Punishment" options.

 

1 hour ago, CliftonJD said:

ahh, thanks for pointing that out, i'd overlooked that

As I previously commented to this SL solves this issue with the "Females use strapons" option in the settings page of the MCM, and from my own experience bound animation will play just fine with a strapon and a female npc as long as I don't try to do it with the npc "actually tied up" from any mod, and just use the animation.

 

 

[Martok73]

51 minutes ago, CliftonJD said:

ya, 1 of the recent updates to loverslab changed that. used to be more user friendly in that regard-i hate the change as well. i'm also tech proficient enough i discovered its mostly an issue with the site limiting your choices to which browser you use for best results

ya, i can relate to that, instead of 2 strokes i had a head collision against a truck while riding a scooter. my understanding that a different browser has less problems with the updated site isn't enough to surpass comfortable with the browser i already use and i don't believe i should be forced to change browsers every 3 to 4 years for the site to function as intended

That explains alot and I agree shouldn't have to change browsers just because a site decides to change it's code. Not gonna win a fight between a scooter and any kind of truck, you're fortunate to still be alive. At least with my strokes I have no memory of the events except for "waking up in the hospital" a day or two after it happened. Trying to kiss a truck while riding a scooter that shits gonna hurt like hell and you'll remember that shit . I am glad you are ok and didn't die and I appreciate everything you do for me and the rest of us here, so thank you mate!

[Will55]

2 hours ago, Martok73 said:

Nice, sadly my brain isn't working right now and I already forgot what we were talking about here.. What are hydra slaves?

 

[Martok73]

5 hours ago, Will55 said:

 

Ahh ok that looks interesting and from reading they some of them have dialog and are SexLab enabled? Does that mean that the player can have sex with them thru their dialog? Is this what Clifton was referring to when he said he was working on adding a dialog enslavement option for Hydra Slaves?

[liuyuchen0420]

On 1/12/2022 at 3:46 AM, terrorofmorrowind said:

I just found out that the game "forgets" pregancies on safe load when I actually fuck them. I have baka's fill her up and I also tried both soulgem oven 4 and fertility mode. both are 2 completely different pregancy mods, yet they have both the same issue. Has anyone had this issue before? It worked perfectly fine on LE. In SE there seem to be issues. I didn't mention this before because I thought it was an incompatibility with soulgem but it seems like it's a much deeper issue.

I have the exact same problem as you. Did you solved this problem?

[terrorofmorrowind]

2 hours ago, liuyuchen0420 said:

I have the exact same problem as you. Did you solved this problem?

Nope I'm not that smart. Using an ancient mod like that isn't very advised either. I did notice that if you use fertility mode. The pregnancies do get remembered as long as you don't initiate sex with those npc's. So just wait until they did their therm and then it's safe to proceed with the fucking. It's a lot more annoying for mods like soulgem oven though. I legidly used that powerup boost that came with the recent mod to make my npc's stronger.

Edited January 22, 2022 by terrorofmorrowind

[CliftonJD]

12 hours ago, Martok73 said:

Sadly the only way I can get the "Your cunt's gonna hurt" and "ream your ass" dialog is if they are tied up

and this is why i don't believe anybody saying the consenting dialogues are too difficult to achieve. on another note if you set aside the animation limits and you're in the mood for those rape dialogues to show, try the mcm option for always aggresive

12 hours ago, Martok73 said:

Nice, sadly my brain isn't working right now and I already forgot what we were talking about here..

1 of the nice things about a quote in comparison to just openly chatting a message when its about the same subject, is the arrow at the top right of the quote is a link back to the original message being quoted

4 hours ago, Martok73 said:

Ahh ok that looks interesting and from reading they some of them have dialog and are SexLab enabled? Does that mean that the player can have sex with them thru their dialog? Is this what Clifton was referring to when he said he was working on adding a dialog enslavement option for Hydra Slaves?

that's the 1

12 hours ago, Martok73 said:

Not sure, but I do know that since HSH uses 3 separate sex stats and PAHE only uses one, that the display bug is still very much a thing when moving slaves back and forth between the two mods. I would guess that if both mods used the exact same stats there wouldn't be any issues, but that is only a guess.

sex_training = ((oral_training + vaginal_training + anal_training) / 3)

there used to be a formula difference between genders, but i finally stumbled on that 1 day while l was looking at pahe code after looking at hsh stats on male slaves. pahe was only using 2 out of the 3 stats for men and hsh wasn't gender biased

12 hours ago, Martok73 said:

However if the slave already had high health then the combat stat does not increase no matter how high it gets.

actually that seems quite likely connected if the higher stat slave has a base actor with a lower stat, when the health regen kicks in, the regen looks at the base actor

12 hours ago, Martok73 said:

On another note, sometimes, but not always there is a bug where PAHE will absolutely destroy a npcs health when it clones them during the enslavement process. I'll give you an example after I started noticing several slaves that only had 50 health but had several hundred magicka and stamina. I used the console to check a bandit chief's health and it was just over 600. Then I enslaved him and his health dropped to 50 while the magic and stam stats stayed the same. Another example is when I enslaved the Ebony Warrior, he has 2071 health according to the wiki and what the console shows when checking him. After I enslaved him to use him as a guard, his health had dropped to 50 while his other two stats stayed the same. I first noticed this a couple days ago so it just recently started happening and nothing in my mod list or load order has changed, so no clue as to what the hell is causing it.

haven't checked any console images of soon to be slaves before to notice if they get that behavior normally or as part of some new bug so hopefully that's a rare bug and hopefully that clears with a clean save

12 hours ago, Martok73 said:

If I am understanding this correctly then it would correlate with a comment I made earlier that a slave would much rather comply with a sexual command as opposed to getting a beating or even worse. Which in reality the sex is still not consensual per say it is the lesser of the two evils, (get fucked or get beat) as punishment for whatever reason they are being punished for. Now am I to assume that what you are saying is that if they are not tied up and you use the "You need to be punished" dialog option, then select "I'm going to fuck you", and the slave responds with anything other than "NO" then as far as the mod is concerned that slave is giving "consent"?

unfortunately even that's not a rule, majority seem to be breathing responses. breath deep or breath out etc...here's the lists:

consenting:

• Use that mouth for what its good for.
• Spread your legs, slave.
• Bend over and show me your cunt.
• Get on top and please me. --gender bias, male player with female slave
• Lie down and be a good toy.--gender bias, female player with male slave
• Wear this strapon and lay there.--gender bias lesbian, female player with female slave

aggressive/rape:

• Open your mouth and if you bite down, I'll rip your teeth out.
• Your cunt is going hurt for a week after this.--female slave
• Now be a good toy and keep still.--female player with male slave
• Lets see how rebellious you are after I ream your ass.

14 hours ago, Martok73 said:

That explains alot and I agree shouldn't have to change browsers just because a site decides to change it's code. Not gonna win a fight between a scooter and any kind of truck, you're fortunate to still be alive. At least with my strokes I have no memory of the events except for "waking up in the hospital" a day or two after it happened. Trying to kiss a truck while riding a scooter that shits gonna hurt like hell and you'll remember that shit . I am glad you are ok and didn't die and I appreciate everything you do for me and the rest of us here, so thank you mate!

welcome

[pinky6225]

7 minutes ago, CliftonJD said:

14 hours ago, Martok73 said:

Sadly the only way I can get the "Your cunt's gonna hurt" and "ream your ass" dialog is if they are tied up

and this is why i don't believe anybody saying the consenting dialogues are too difficult to achieve. on another note if you set aside the animation limits and you're in the mood for those rape dialogues to show, try the mcm option for always aggresive

 

The always use aggressive applies to all though which if you have a mixture of trained/untrained slaves doesn't really work out (in my little world at least)

 

What would be good (if its possible) is if the "you need to be punished" dialogue always leads to aggressive option and then the consensual "okay slave" --> "I'm going to fuck you" leads to a consensual unless they refuse

 

If the always aggressive MCM toggle could be made (duplicated or amended) to only apply to the punish one that would also work

[Antiope_Apollonia]

17 hours ago, CliftonJD said:

first mood is binary and you can't have both more than 1 emotion at a time. either the slave is afraid or they're angry or they're normal. numbers on emotions are how much they've been trained at that.

You've misunderstood me.  I realise that mood is binary.  Let me present the same exact idea in a different way:

• If ((mood = "OK") & (Submission + Sex ≥ 95)), then consent.
• If ((mood = "Angry") & (Submission + Sex ≥ 115)), then consent.
• If ((mood = "Frightened") & (Submission + Sex ≥ 75)), then consent.

So you can see that what I was proposing is to simply assign numerical values to each mood for the purpose of the consent formula.  Since 95 - 20 = 75, and 95 + 20 = 115, this would be equivalent to assigning the moods values of +/- 20.

 

17 hours ago, CliftonJD said:

if sex training were limited to the quality of performance, it would just match the stats already given by sl, but including the training for disobeying a sexual command rather than pushing it into submission when pah is already loaded with submission training...

I think this is a good example of where it's a shame that DoM and PAHE are being developed independently.  With DoM, much of what PAHE does with Submission is shifted to Resignation, and Submission has a much clearer focus—which I think is a positive move.  It'd be great if we could buy you two an office to collaborate more closely. ? 

 

17 hours ago, CliftonJD said:

shocked and terrified seem equal to afraid, just as broken seems would get the same result in consenting sex as in love, but loyalty doesn't imply consent to sex. a soldier could be loyal to his/her commander and still not consent to sex. loyalty would be the skyrim equivalent to allied while in love would be married or potential marriage partner

The specific details of my idea are less the point than the idea itself.  I considered placing "Loyal" on the same (+40) level as "Broken" and "Terrified", and maybe that would fit better but my recollection is that @TrollAutokill has explained the design intent in the past as "Loyal" being more or less equal to "In Love" just without having had sex, so my first thought was to put them on the same level.  "Terrified" is a stronger emotion than "Fearful", and "Shocked" is more about being traumatised—think borderline catatonic—and both tend to be relatively short-lived.  Probably my list should really be reordered a bit to look like this:

• Set "Angry" mood = -20
• Set "Fearful" mood = +20
• Set "Broken", "Terrified", and "Loyal" moods = +40
• Set "In Love" and "Shocked" moods = +60
• If Submission + Sex + Mood ≥ 135, then consent.  

Then, I suppose DoM would likely apply a multiplier to that 135 threshold based on the "Submissive" and/or "Sensual" personality stats, perhaps giving it an effective range of 120-150 or so.  

 

I was thinking about how much random variability makes sense for sexual consent, and I think this "threshold" model probably makes a lot more sense than the sort of "scaling percent chance" model I had in mind before I started thinking through the details here.  And for certain, I think an approach like this using a function—it doesn't have to be exactly my function, although I think it's a good one—would have to be a better development approach than a bunch of piecemeal criteria being stitched together.  Not only is it more elegant and intelligible, but it's also much more easily fine-tuneable.  You can easily adjust the threshold value up or down to make consent easier or harder in response to practical testing.  You could also make the function slightly more complex to allow for even greater fine-tuning with relative weights for the factors, e.g.:

• If (Submission * n) + (Sex * m) + Mood ≥ 135, then consent, where n + m = 2

So then you could decide to set n = 1.1 and m = 0.9, for instance, if you wanted to weight Submission to be a bit more important than Sex in the function.  It would be vastly easier to fine-tune a system like this than what you showed me above.  I feel confident this would be a good approach, but even if you reject my design suggestion, I really think consent is one of the most glaring areas where PAHE needs re-tuning, because right now it's really frustrating.  

Edited January 22, 2022 by Antiope_Apollonia

[Antiope_Apollonia]

1 hour ago, pinky6225 said:

The always use aggressive applies to all though which if you have a mixture of trained/untrained slaves doesn't really work out (in my little world at least)

 

What would be good (if its possible) is if the "you need to be punished" dialogue always leads to aggressive option and then the consensual "okay slave" --> "I'm going to fuck you" leads to a consensual unless they refuse

 

If the always aggressive MCM toggle could be made (duplicated or amended) to only apply to the punish one that would also work

 

I posted this idea in the DoM thread a while back, and a lot of it pertains to mechanics governed specifically by DoM, but it would obviously be built upon PAHE systems.  It seems apropos here:

Quote

I'd love to see a rework of how sex is initiated generally, but that'd probably require coordination between @TrollAutokill and @CliftonJD to be possible.  My understanding is that parts of this would be rather difficult to do, but I think parts of it should be pretty easy.  I dream of having four paths to sex, with each behaving differently.  

• Punishment sex.  Initiated more or less as it is currently implemented in PAHE.  Uses aggressive animations.  Will rape if they don't submit.
• Sexual service for Mistress.  Neither punishment nor reward.  Slaves can refuse, generating a punishment reason.  Refusal offers PC a choice of rape or alternative punishments.  Slave is not allowed to cum, leaving her at max arousal after sex.  Ideally, there would be a training-based chance for her to cum anyway and generate a punishment reason.  This category of sex should probably be worth the largest amount of sex training progress.
  • This would replace the current "Ok slave..." → "I'm going to fuck you."  The new dialogue could be, for example, "Ok slave..." → "Come and give your Mistress/Master some pleasure."  
• Sexual reward/play for slave.  Requires praise reasons.  Slaves can refuse, but are less likely to do so.  [i.e., In the context of my consent function proposal, the threshold value would be maybe 20 points lower.]  Slave always gets to cum.  Ideally, it would generate a punishment reason if the slave fails to cum.  This should probably generate less sex training than sexual service, but still a decent bit, and maybe additionally generate some submission and/or resignation training.  
  • This would probably be in the top-level dialogue tree, at/near the top, but only visible when there is a valid praise reason.  If you don't want it there, it could be under "Come here, slave."  It might say something like, "Since you've been a good girl/boy, I'll reward you with some pleasure.  Cum for me, pet!"
• Sexual comfort.  Initiated more or less as it is currently implemented in DoM.  Calls animations tagged "foreplay"/"cuddling"/"kissing"/etc.  Slave's don't cum, and doesn't take slaves' virginity.  Minimal impact on sexual training; mostly trains submission/resignation instead.

 

[Martok73]

3 hours ago, CliftonJD said:

and this is why i don't believe anybody saying the consenting dialogues are too difficult to achieve. on another note if you set aside the animation limits and you're in the mood for those rape dialogues to show, try the mcm option for always aggresive

Hmm, might have to try that. On another note on the subject of different dialog options showing up depending on slave stats, I grabbed a Nightlord Vampire and started working on her, and for the first time I hit 100 Fear training! She has 100 sub, 100 Fear, 48 Anger, 73 Respect (which is stuck and won't go up anymore), 81 Combat, and 85 Sex. So without her being tied, if I use the "Punish" dialog tree, and the subsequent "I'm going to fuck you" that is under "Punish", I get a dialog I haven't seen before "Face down and spread your cheeks", which I am assuming is supposed to lead to only anal animations being picked and shown in the popup window? I do get some anal animations but due to the fubar'd SL Filter I also get regular animations, aggressive, consensual, bound, and oral ones too, damn I hate that pos filter.

 

3 hours ago, CliftonJD said:

1 of the nice things about a quote in comparison to just openly chatting a message when its about the same subject, is the arrow at the top right of the quote is a link back to the original message being quoted

Sadly I clicked the arrow and went back like 6 pages and still couldn't figure out what we were talking about I am just hoping it had something to do with adding in a dialog option to enslave a npc thru dialog that was in some way "tied up" either via a type of defeat mod, or DD or ZAZ device. I'm also hoping that if the comment you referred to for Hydra Slaves will also apply to any npc that is tied up or wearing a DD/ZAZ device. Really would like to have that dialog enslavement option for all npcs that are "bound" in some way.

 

3 hours ago, CliftonJD said:

that's the 1

Ok, cool, so in reference to above comment, are you making it so it will work with any "Bound" npc and not just the Hydra Slaves? Second question with just that mod can you fuck em' thru their own dialog or do you need another mod to add dialog sex options to them? I've never seen it or used it reason I'm asking.

 

3 hours ago, CliftonJD said:

sex_training = ((oral_training + vaginal_training + anal_training) / 3)

there used to be a formula difference between genders, but i finally stumbled on that 1 day while l was looking at pahe code after looking at hsh stats on male slaves. pahe was only using 2 out of the 3 stats for men and hsh wasn't gender biased

Ok so then by that formula there should not be any discrepancies then, but for whatever reason whether it's just a visual display bug or an actual stat bug, anytime I transfer a slave from PAHE to HSH and back that does not have 100 in all three stats, it gets messed up and doesn't show correctly when using the "Slave Info" spell from PAHE, nor when looking at them in the HSH MCM, nor when looking in the PAHE MCM either. No clue as to what's going on with it or why it's showing different numbers to be honest, but yeah any slave that does not have 100 sex in all 3 bugs out when moving em' back and forth.

 

3 hours ago, CliftonJD said:

actually that seems quite likely connected if the higher stat slave has a base actor with a lower stat, when the health regen kicks in, the regen looks at the base actor

That makes a little bit of sense, but still doesn't quite explain as to why if the combat stat is supposed to increase the health stat as it rises, as to why is has no effect when on a npc with higher base health?

 

4 hours ago, CliftonJD said:

haven't checked any console images of soon to be slaves before to notice if they get that behavior normally or as part of some new bug so hopefully that's a rare bug and hopefully that clears with a clean save

Unfortunately I don't think it's that rare for me at least as I have enslaved the Ebony Warrior twice on two different characters now and both times he went form having 2071 health which is his correct normal health, down to 50 health after enslavement . I had to use forceav health 2071 to set his health back to what it's supposed to be and have it stick.

 

4 hours ago, CliftonJD said:

unfortunately even that's not a rule, majority seem to be breathing responses. breath deep or breath out etc...here's the lists:

consenting:

• Use that mouth for what its good for.
• Spread your legs, slave.
• Bend over and show me your cunt.
• Get on top and please me. --gender bias, male player with female slave
• Lie down and be a good toy.--gender bias, female player with male slave
• Wear this strapon and lay there.--gender bias lesbian, female player with female slave

aggressive/rape:

• Open your mouth and if you bite down, I'll rip your teeth out.
• Your cunt is going hurt for a week after this.--female slave
• Now be a good toy and keep still.--female player with male slave
• Lets see how rebellious you are after I ream your ass.

Ok, well that makes it alot harder to tell if it's supposed to be "consent" or "rape" then. Even with headphones understanding a npc's breathing expressions is not an easy task, most of the time I can't tell if they are gasping for breath, letting out a big sigh or what, making it very confusing .

 

So I've seen all of the dialog options at the top which I still say isn't exactly consent but more of compliance to avoid getting a beating or worse. (yeah I know gotta have a way to distinguish sex types in SexLab). And like I said the only time I see the dialog at the bottom under aggressive/rape is if I tie them up. For whatever reason this holds true with brand new fresh slaves as I noticed that while I was training my brand new Nightlord Vampire slave last night. It's also when I saw the new dialog I mention above that I had not seen before either, "Face down and spread your cheeks". Long before I got her to 100 Sub and 100 Fear as I mentioned above, if she was not tied up, the only dialog options I got were the ones you have listed under "consent" and that was using both the "You Need to be Punished" tree, and the "Ok, Slave" tree. I have no idea why that is either and not working as you describe that is should be working.

 

4 hours ago, pinky6225 said:

What would be good (if its possible) is if the "you need to be punished" dialogue always leads to aggressive option and then the consensual "okay slave" --> "I'm going to fuck you" leads to a consensual unless they refuse

 

If the always aggressive MCM toggle could be made (duplicated or amended) to only apply to the punish one that would also work

That might work or at least guarantee that one would at least see the aggressive/rape dialog. However I can also see how it would not work either which going back to an earlier comment about Stockholm Syndrone and slaves in captivity for long periods of time. A person will "comply" to sexual punishment even if they really want to refuse and not have sex, only to avoid getting beaten or worse (killed), and this especially holds true to one that is told they are going to be punished. So I can understand and see why there is supposed to be a chance with high enough stats that a slave would "consent" to sexual punishment when told they are going to be punished for whatever reason, just to avoid the alternative of getting beaten or perhaps worse (killed). I do agree that if the "always aggressive" toggle in the MCM only applied to the "Punish" dialog option, which that way if using the other one under "Ok slave", it had a chance to lead to "consent" options as opposed to always being aggressive/rape.

 

2 hours ago, Antiope_Apollonia said:

I posted this idea in the DoM thread a while back, and a lot of it pertains to mechanics governed specifically by DoM, but it would obviously be built upon PAHE systems.  It seems apropos here:

 

2 hours ago, Antiope_Apollonia said:

The new dialogue could be, for example, "Ok slave..." → "Come and give your Mistress/Master some pleasure."  

HSH already has a dialog option that is almost identical and functions in the exact way you suggested. HSH dialog is "Strip now, I'm going to have some fun with you", which is the top level dialog of the tree under which has 3 options. "Come and give me some attention"- which always leads to consensual/consent/compliant sex of any type in SexLab and not flagged as aggressive. The animation chosen via the popup box determines if it's oral/vaginal/anal, or can be left to randomness by allowing SL to choose. The second option is "Time to get a little rough"- which always leads to an aggressive animation being played and other aggressive animations being available in the popup box. This option is flagged by SL as aggressive/rape. The last option is "You better pleasure yourself"- which leads to solo masturbation animations being chosen and played by the slave themselves, or you can pick one from the popup window box for them.

 

From what I've been told by a couple people that use all three mods, PAHE, HSH, DoM, that specific dialog tree in HSH does work with and affect the appropriate stats inside DoM as is already, or so I've been told as I don't use DoM.

[Pfiffy]

Now for something completely different...

I digged myself into the Daedra of Cold Harbor and the Deadric Museum of Artifacts. I changed the all NPC's into females and replaced the guards with female Daedras... Some from Cold Harbor, some vanilla and 2 Golden Saints and 2 Dark Seducers from the new AE content. Did anyone ever thought about enslaving Dremoras?

The last time I tried it, I wasn't able to equip the DD or ZAZ devices on them... I think I have to write a little esp with modified armor add on lists. 

 

(Someone has to make Bodyslide files for the new Armors coming with the CC content... They look pretty cool)

 

The new version of TDF is getting forward. The dancing option seems to work.

Training seems to work for the first time, too. but it seems like it doesn't work afterwards. I will do a bit more testing to see if it is just the new Hookers or if I messed them all up. 

 

The new hookers 5 and 6 can do jobs now. I have to find out why Hooker 4 is not working correctly. I went throu the settings several times, checked the scripts and their properties and don't find the problem.  

 

The SLEN interface is working for me, too, even if I still don't know how it works and why it sometimes doesn't. I still stumble over a new script here and there....

 

I found out how the fragment stuff is working and managed to rename nearly all scripts to AIBB_xxxx or BB_xxxx. The only script I didn't found so far was the myth script. 

 

This is the recent version:

 

TDF2022.7z

 

 

[Antiope_Apollonia]

6 minutes ago, Pfiffy said:

Now for something completely different...

I digged myself into the Daedra of Cold Harbor and the Deadric Museum of Artifacts. I changed the all NPC's into females and replaced the guards with female Daedras... Some from Cold Harbor, some vanilla and 2 Golden Saints and 2 Dark Seducers from the new AE content. Did anyone ever thought about enslaving Dremoras?

The last time I tried it, I wasn't able to equip the DD or ZAZ devices on them... I think I have to write a little esp with modified armor add on lists. 

Sounds cool!  Where are you planning on going with that? O_o

[Pfiffy]

3 hours ago, Antiope_Apollonia said:

Sounds cool!  Where are you planning on going with that? O_o

The author of CHD seems to be a bit picky about permissions and I don't think that I did what he had in mind...

And the CC stuff is hard to edit... I was not able to open it with the CK so I had to make my edits in the DM mod. There is no voice expansion for the Daedra....

It is very improvised. I don't know much about char creation, so I had some fine time with struggling to make them look good. 

 

I just have 12 different unique 'deadric' themed guards to enslave in a good location for a Slave training facility with some traders and all needed crafting stuff. It is also a good place for testing the slave prostitution mod I have in mind. But first I have to get the new TDF version to work, before I can start on that. 

I did that before just using the CHD females and now I just replaced 4 of them with Golden Saints and Dark Seducers. I will test if I can enslave them today...

 

Since they all have different races i stumbled over the problem that they don't 'wear' the stuff I gave them. And adding each and every armor piece to the list is hell of a work....

 

 

 

 

 

[Nonseen]

7 hours ago, Pfiffy said:

Golden Saints and 2 Dark Seducers from the new AE content. Did anyone ever thought about enslaving Dremoras?

Sounds great idea!

 

At the moment i working on a mod that add few new  intresting npcs to skyrim. You give me a idea!

I can add my mod Dremoras to female and male...  

 

In skyrim SE 1.5.97 version dremora race and female dremore exist so i can add this to the game, sadly no uniqe voice exist.

 

I dont know what tool you using the edit CC things. I can give you a sample .esp, this case i can use original armor parts that come with the game. I prefer using leveled list to add armors to npcs. if this help you let mek now i upload here a sample file.

[Pfiffy]

26 minutes ago, Nonseen said:

Sounds great idea!

 

At the moment i working on a mod that add few new  intresting npcs to skyrim. You give me a idea!

I can add my mod Dremoras to female and male...  

 

In skyrim SE 1.5.97 version dremora race and female dremore exist so i can add this to the game, sadly no uniqe voice exist.

 

I dont know what tool you using the edit CC things. I can give you a sample .esp, this case i can use original armor parts that come with the game. I prefer using leveled list to add armors to npcs. if this help you let mek now i upload here a sample file.

The armors are not the problem, I wanted to edit the race features because they don't use a naked body and the CK broke every time I tried to open the CC files directly.  So I had to edit the races in the esp of DA... I have a little gap beween the head and the body. 

 

If no voice exists, use the female vampire voice...

 

 

 

[Nonseen]

9 minutes ago, Pfiffy said:

The armors are not the problem, I wanted to edit the race features because they don't use a naked body and the CK broke every time I tried to open the CC files directly.  So I had to edit the races in the esp of DA... I have a little gap beween the head and the body. 

 

If no voice exists, use the female vampire voice...

 

 

 

maybe i mistaken i re checked the dremora race in ck.

dremora using own voice. i get miss leaded by the ck in the first.

looks like Male Dremore using crDremora voice as default voice.

 

Female Dremora using FemaleEvenToned voice as default voice.

 

 run quick test with my dremora npc variant result is fallowing:

i can enslave the dremora and for 1 minute quick test show she can equip zaz joke.

 

in my case i made a new dremora from scrach.

during this creation process i added this npc to bandit faction, and dremora faction but not the creature faction!

 

i dont know this effect how this npc handled by SL Framework or PAHE or any other mods.

[Pfiffy]

1 hour ago, Nonseen said:

maybe i mistaken i re checked the dremora race in ck.

dremora using own voice. i get miss leaded by the ck in the first.

looks like Male Dremore using crDremora voice as default voice.

 

Female Dremora using FemaleEvenToned voice as default voice.

 

 run quick test with my dremora npc variant result is fallowing:

i can enslave the dremora and for 1 minute quick test show she can equip zaz joke.

 

in my case i made a new dremora from scrach.

during this creation process i added this npc to bandit faction, and dremora faction but not the creature faction!

 

i dont know this effect how this npc handled by SL Framework or PAHE or any other mods.

The Vanilla Dremora are easy... But the CHD and CC stuff is a bit more complicated. 

 

 

As you can see they wear gags and a collar....

 

And by default they don't have Hair... 

 

Edited January 23, 2022 by Pfiffy

[Nonseen]

i see.

hmm i able to produce invisibile armor parts.

 

this happen if i delete the armor part reference to any texture image. or i do other tricks.

 

i know littile about CC things.

My dremora has far darker skin color and black eyes.

 

hmm maybe the character model owelay the gag model? or the gag texture file not loaded for some reason?

 

i curently using old SE nnot allowed to upgrade happen sady i cant try this things out on my own at the moment.

[Pfiffy]

1 hour ago, Nonseen said:

i see.

hmm i able to produce invisibile armor parts.

 

this happen if i delete the armor part reference to any texture image. or i do other tricks.

 

i know littile about CC things.

My dremora has far darker skin color and black eyes.

 

hmm maybe the character model owelay the gag model? or the gag texture file not loaded for some reason?

 

i curently using old SE nnot allowed to upgrade happen sady i cant try this things out on my own at the moment.

No, it's just that the Armor add on does not have the entry for the Golden Saint race...  

[sarahpetersonsarahpeterson]

Trying to recompile a script with the CK:

C:\Users\Artemis\SK\The Elder Scrolls V Skyrim - Special Edition\Data\Scripts\Source\DOM_Core.psc(1063,52): PAHNbPain is not a property on script pahcore or one of its parents
C:\Users\Artemis\SK\The Elder Scrolls V Skyrim - Special Edition\Data\Scripts\Source\DOM_Core.psc(1064,51): PAHNbToldoff is not a property on script pahcore or one of its parents
C:\Users\Artemis\SK\The Elder Scrolls V Skyrim - Special Edition\Data\Scripts\Source\DOM_Core.psc(1065,54): PAHNbShame is not a property on script pahcore or one of its parents
C:\Users\Artemis\SK\The Elder Scrolls V Skyrim - Special Edition\Data\Scripts\Source\DOM_Core.psc(1066,49): PAHNbRape is not a property on script pahcore or one of its parents
C:\Users\Artemis\SK\The Elder Scrolls V Skyrim - Special Edition\Data\Scripts\Source\DOM_Core.psc(1067,63): PAHNbSex is not a property on script pahcore or one of its parents
C:\Users\Artemis\SK\The Elder Scrolls V Skyrim - Special Edition\Data\Scripts\Source\DOM_Core.psc(1068,54): PAHNbPraise is not a property on script pahcore or one of its parents
C:\Users\Artemis\SK\The Elder Scrolls V Skyrim - Special Edition\Data\Scripts\Source\DOM_Core.psc(1102,60): PAHHumiliation is not a property on script pahcore or one of its parents
C:\Users\Artemis\SK\The Elder Scrolls V Skyrim - Special Edition\Data\Scripts\Source\DOM_Core.psc(1104,60): PAHResignation is not a property on script pahcore or one of its parents
C:\Users\Artemis\SK\The Elder Scrolls V Skyrim - Special Edition\Data\Scripts\Source\DOM_Core.psc(1108,64): PAHTrainHouse is not a property on script pahcore or one of its parents
C:\Users\Artemis\SK\The Elder Scrolls V Skyrim - Special Edition\Data\Scripts\Source\DOM_Core.psc(1203,60): PAHHumiliation is not a property on script pahcore or one of its parents
C:\Users\Artemis\SK\The Elder Scrolls V Skyrim - Special Edition\Data\Scripts\Source\DOM_Core.psc(1205,60): PAHResignation is not a property on script pahcore or one of its parents
C:\Users\Artemis\SK\The Elder Scrolls V Skyrim - Special Edition\Data\Scripts\Source\DOM_Core.psc(1377,52): DOMPainModifier is not a property on script pahcore or one of its parents
C:\Users\Artemis\SK\The Elder Scrolls V Skyrim - Special Edition\Data\Scripts\Source\DOM_Core.psc(1379,52): DOMFearModifier is not a property on script pahcore or one of its parents
C:\Users\Artemis\SK\The Elder Scrolls V Skyrim - Special Edition\Data\Scripts\Source\DOM_Core.psc(1381,52): DOMShameModifier is not a property on script pahcore or one of its parents
C:\Users\Artemis\SK\The Elder Scrolls V Skyrim - Special Edition\Data\Scripts\Source\DOM_Core.psc(1383,52): DOMStressModifier is not a property on script pahcore or one of its parents
C:\Users\Artemis\SK\The Elder Scrolls V Skyrim - Special Edition\Data\Scripts\Source\DOM_Core.psc(1385,52): DOMSorrowModifier is not a property on script pahcore or one of its parents
C:\Users\Artemis\SK\The Elder Scrolls V Skyrim - Special Edition\Data\Scripts\Source\DOM_Core.psc(1387,52): DOMDisciplineModifier is not a property on script pahcore or one of its parents
C:\Users\Artemis\SK\The Elder Scrolls V Skyrim - Special Edition\Data\Scripts\Source\DOM_Core.psc(1390,52): DOMOralModifier is not a property on script pahcore or one of its parents
C:\Users\Artemis\SK\The Elder Scrolls V Skyrim - Special Edition\Data\Scripts\Source\DOM_Core.psc(1392,52): DOMVaginalModifier is not a property on script pahcore or one of its parents
C:\Users\Artemis\SK\The Elder Scrolls V Skyrim - Special Edition\Data\Scripts\Source\DOM_Core.psc(1394,52): DOMAnalModifier is

[TrollAutokill]

3 hours ago, sarahpetersonsarahpeterson said:

Trying to recompile a script with the CK:

C:\Users\Artemis\SK\The Elder Scrolls V Skyrim - Special Edition\Data\Scripts\Source\DOM_Core.psc(1063,52): PAHNbPain is not a property on script pahcore or one of its parents
C:\Users\Artemis\SK\The Elder Scrolls V Skyrim - Special Edition\Data\Scripts\Source\DOM_Core.psc(1064,51): PAHNbToldoff is not a property on script pahcore or one of its parents
C:\Users\Artemis\SK\The Elder Scrolls V Skyrim - Special Edition\Data\Scripts\Source\DOM_Core.psc(1065,54): PAHNbShame is not a property on script pahcore or one of its parents
C:\Users\Artemis\SK\The Elder Scrolls V Skyrim - Special Edition\Data\Scripts\Source\DOM_Core.psc(1066,49): PAHNbRape is not a property on script pahcore or one of its parents
C:\Users\Artemis\SK\The Elder Scrolls V Skyrim - Special Edition\Data\Scripts\Source\DOM_Core.psc(1067,63): PAHNbSex is not a property on script pahcore or one of its parents
C:\Users\Artemis\SK\The Elder Scrolls V Skyrim - Special Edition\Data\Scripts\Source\DOM_Core.psc(1068,54): PAHNbPraise is not a property on script pahcore or one of its parents
C:\Users\Artemis\SK\The Elder Scrolls V Skyrim - Special Edition\Data\Scripts\Source\DOM_Core.psc(1102,60): PAHHumiliation is not a property on script pahcore or one of its parents
C:\Users\Artemis\SK\The Elder Scrolls V Skyrim - Special Edition\Data\Scripts\Source\DOM_Core.psc(1104,60): PAHResignation is not a property on script pahcore or one of its parents
C:\Users\Artemis\SK\The Elder Scrolls V Skyrim - Special Edition\Data\Scripts\Source\DOM_Core.psc(1108,64): PAHTrainHouse is not a property on script pahcore or one of its parents
C:\Users\Artemis\SK\The Elder Scrolls V Skyrim - Special Edition\Data\Scripts\Source\DOM_Core.psc(1203,60): PAHHumiliation is not a property on script pahcore or one of its parents
C:\Users\Artemis\SK\The Elder Scrolls V Skyrim - Special Edition\Data\Scripts\Source\DOM_Core.psc(1205,60): PAHResignation is not a property on script pahcore or one of its parents
C:\Users\Artemis\SK\The Elder Scrolls V Skyrim - Special Edition\Data\Scripts\Source\DOM_Core.psc(1377,52): DOMPainModifier is not a property on script pahcore or one of its parents
C:\Users\Artemis\SK\The Elder Scrolls V Skyrim - Special Edition\Data\Scripts\Source\DOM_Core.psc(1379,52): DOMFearModifier is not a property on script pahcore or one of its parents
C:\Users\Artemis\SK\The Elder Scrolls V Skyrim - Special Edition\Data\Scripts\Source\DOM_Core.psc(1381,52): DOMShameModifier is not a property on script pahcore or one of its parents
C:\Users\Artemis\SK\The Elder Scrolls V Skyrim - Special Edition\Data\Scripts\Source\DOM_Core.psc(1383,52): DOMStressModifier is not a property on script pahcore or one of its parents
C:\Users\Artemis\SK\The Elder Scrolls V Skyrim - Special Edition\Data\Scripts\Source\DOM_Core.psc(1385,52): DOMSorrowModifier is not a property on script pahcore or one of its parents
C:\Users\Artemis\SK\The Elder Scrolls V Skyrim - Special Edition\Data\Scripts\Source\DOM_Core.psc(1387,52): DOMDisciplineModifier is not a property on script pahcore or one of its parents
C:\Users\Artemis\SK\The Elder Scrolls V Skyrim - Special Edition\Data\Scripts\Source\DOM_Core.psc(1390,52): DOMOralModifier is not a property on script pahcore or one of its parents
C:\Users\Artemis\SK\The Elder Scrolls V Skyrim - Special Edition\Data\Scripts\Source\DOM_Core.psc(1392,52): DOMVaginalModifier is not a property on script pahcore or one of its parents
C:\Users\Artemis\SK\The Elder Scrolls V Skyrim - Special Edition\Data\Scripts\Source\DOM_Core.psc(1394,52): DOMAnalModifier is

You're on the pahe thread and your error is DoM related. Please sort your mess before bothering others.

 

Your error comes from the fact that you installed DoM first and overwrote source with pahe's

Edited January 23, 2022 by TrollAutokill

[dustbeetwelve]

What is the most stable way to integrate TDF with PAHE right now? Or should I just use Musje's HSH/AYGAS for this functionality? There's like 3 different ways of accomplishing basically the same thing (making a slave a prostitute) and i'm confused on how to get them to actually work together

 

I am asking here because I saw Clifton talking about it a lot earlier. and im primarily concerned with it not messing up my PAHE and this thread is pretty active, the prostitution mods that integrate with PAHE are like split up between like 3 threads and I dont wanna just shotgun spam my question in a bunch of different threads cuz i know Clifton and Pfiffy post here.

 

Here's what I've found so far for options with integrating with PAH but even after reading a bunch of posts I'm not really clear on what to do.

 

There's @Pfiffy's SexLab TDF Prostitution and Pimping - i know this is the base that everything else builds on, but it has like 6 versions and i'm not really clear on which one i'm supposed to use or how i should install it

 

There's also TDF Enhanced Prostitution which is supposed to add on top of Pfiffy's i think, and it has it's own PAHE integration which it says NOT to use with the PAHE TDF patch on @CliftonJD's page here.

 

So I tried installing Pfiffy's TDF Prostitution ("Legendary" version) with Enhanced Prostitution over it, guessing the Enhanced Prostitution PAHE integration was published more recently than clifton's pahe tdf patch so maybe it's better or something. the "pahe tdf patch" on cliftons downloads page was published over a year ago, while Enhanced Prostitution's integration was published in oct of 2021, more recently so i figured itd be more stable/more up to date.

 

but it doesn't work for me. When i talk to a slave and try to get them to become a prostitute, they just say "sure get me jobs and ill do the rest" then nothing happens

 

Do I run Pfiffy's and the PAHE TDF patch from Clifton? What's the recommended thing to do?

Edited January 24, 2022 by dustbeetwelve

[Pfiffy]

3 hours ago, dustbeetwelve said:

What is the most stable way to integrate TDF with PAHE right now? Or should I just use Musje's HSH/AYGAS for this functionality? There's like 3 different ways of accomplishing basically the same thing (making a slave a prostitute) and i'm confused on how to get them to actually work together

 

I am asking here because I saw Clifton talking about it a lot earlier. and im primarily concerned with it not messing up my PAHE and this thread is pretty active, the prostitution mods that integrate with PAHE are like split up between like 3 threads and I dont wanna just shotgun spam my question in a bunch of different threads cuz i know Clifton and Pfiffy post here.

 

Here's what I've found so far for options with integrating with PAH but even after reading a bunch of posts I'm not really clear on what to do.

 

There's @Pfiffy's SexLab TDF Prostitution and Pimping - i know this is the base that everything else builds on, but it has like 6 versions and i'm not really clear on which one i'm supposed to use or how i should install it

 

There's also TDF Enhanced Prostitution which is supposed to add on top of Pfiffy's i think, and it has it's own PAHE integration which it says NOT to use with the PAHE TDF patch on @CliftonJD's page here.

 

So I tried installing Pfiffy's TDF Prostitution ("Legendary" version) with Enhanced Prostitution over it, guessing the Enhanced Prostitution PAHE integration was published more recently than clifton's pahe tdf patch so maybe it's better or something. the "pahe tdf patch" on cliftons downloads page was published over a year ago, while Enhanced Prostitution's integration was published in oct of 2021, more recently so i figured itd be more stable/more up to date.

 

but it doesn't work for me. When i talk to a slave and try to get them to become a prostitute, they just say "sure get me jobs and ill do the rest" then nothing happens

 

Do I run Pfiffy's and the PAHE TDF patch from Clifton? What's the recommended thing to do?

I tested enhanced prostitution myself and got the same results like you. 

 

The only save way now is to use TDF legendary with the pahe patch and/or HSH/AYGAS. They work independently from each other. But you better not use the same slave in both mods.

 

I'm working on a new version of TDF right now, and as soon as I get it to work  I want to make a new TDF add on for slaves.