Fallout 76 announcement? (Bethesda Live Stream)

[SleepyJim]

3 hours ago, Kargrin said:

More Anthem

 

  Reveal hidden contents

 

 

 

 

You know, those are probably all T-poses, but I bet there's at least one npc in there who just really needs a hug because he suspects the writing's on the wall.

[Kendo 2]

1 hour ago, DFSL said:

Anybody got this one? NPCs attacking each other. At "Big B's Rest Stop" the super mutant boss there beat one of his foot soldiers to death after the dumb thing accidentally set off an explosion with the semi trailer tractor blocking the abandoned highway. First time ever I saw this on a Bethesda Game and the glitch made the game look realistic for a few seconds.

That's an AI 'glitch' based on combat styles and target Aggression value.  If an NPC or creature has a combat style that ignores friends for missile fire/spells his allies will turn on him if they take enough damage and their Aggression is high enough.  I've seen Forsworn do it more than once when Briarhearts use area affect spells and they get caught in the radius.  Skyrim followers will do the same thing.  Skyrim/FO4/FO70shits = same engine = same glitches.

[winny257]

On 12/9/2018 at 9:21 PM, Kendo 2 said:

That's an AI 'glitch' based on combat styles and target Aggression value.  If an NPC or creature has a combat style that ignores friends for missile fire/spells his allies will turn on him if they take enough damage and their Aggression is high enough.  I've seen Forsworn do it more than once when Briarhearts use area affect spells and they get caught in the radius.  Skyrim followers will do the same thing.  Skyrim/FO4/FO70shits = same engine = same glitches.

friendly fire 

 

on kick back ?

[FauxFurry]

The disease has been diagnosed already so now is the time to figure out the cause of the ailment.

 

[Omni]

8 hours ago, Kendo 2 said:

That's an AI 'glitch' based on combat styles and target Aggression value.  If an NPC or creature has a combat style that ignores friends for missile fire/spells his allies will turn on him if they take enough damage and their Aggression is high enough.  I've seen Forsworn do it more than once when Briarhearts use area affect spells and they get caught in the radius.  Skyrim followers will do the same thing.  Skyrim/FO4/FO70shits = same engine = same glitches.

That can be more of a feature, a kind of emergent gameplay from systems interacting. Though sometimes things like that occur in such illogical ways that it feels a lot like a glitch. As I'm sure you know, that kind of system supporting emergent gameplay is quite common in recent Bethesda games. ? Things like having an NPC "walk" from one map location to another rather than just teleporting them when the player isn't looking can lead to all sorts of problems, even game-breaking ones, but can also lead to some really cool things happening. I like not being just dragged through a story, but also being able to see the world react to my actions and being able to make my own stories.

 

Somewhat related, the random conversations had by NPCs in Oblivion come to mind. They are varied and spontaneous enough to make the world feel more alive, but broken and repetitive enough to drive you insane at the same time. I have many lines from that game burned into my memory. I'm glad they put it in there, but boy was it wonky.

21 hours ago, Kendo 2 said:

"FO76 has new light and landscape technology."  He said that and it was a bold-faced lie and he knew it.  I guess that's kittens and puppies cute.

Something that actually struck me in Fallout 76 is that the volumetric lighting does seem notably better. I bet they made a bunch of changes in the rendering pipeline, but to call it "new technology" seems a little ridiculous. I'd agree that they improved the lighting in the engine, but not in any massive ground-breaking ways.

 

The terrain claim seems even more egregious. I suspect he meant they improved something like terrain shaders, which is a far cry from "new landscape technology". It's obviously the same old Gamebryo heightmap-based terrain. Maybe they threw in a few new features I haven't really spotted, like new kinds of tessellation or something about the way holes are cut in the terrain, but "new landscape technology" makes it sound like some new voxel-based thing, or at the very least something that allows terrain overhangs. I'm pretty sure any sort of terrain overhang is a mesh slapped on there like in their previous games.

 

Despite that, I do believe he meant all that as a "slight" exaggeration to hype up the game, (not sure how "slight" it really is) or was really talking about new terrain features they've considered or experimented with that didn't really make it into the end product. He should probably know better than to push things quite as far as he does, but I still think it's more enthusiasm than cynicism.

 

-

 

Hello Games and No Man's Sky are a good example of this kind of thing taken to the extreme. Sean Murray's depiction of the game was massively overestimating their limits and what they could deliver. I think he wanted to make the game he described, and had every intention of making the game he described, he just couldn't when his dreams collided with reality. People had every right to assume he was being relatively honest about the product and it's no surprise they were furious when it so significantly fell short of what he had advertised, but this kind of mistake and dishonesty comes from a completely different source than the cynical bottom-line-focused suits up in corporate. The suits mostly couldn't care less if the game is fun or treats their customers well as long as it makes money. Some of those suits are much worse than others, of course.

 

Something always felt off to me about No Man's Sky so I was never very hyped for it. I didn't believe they could deliver what they were describing, and indeed they did not. (I've heard it has come a long way since then, though.) I think I am similarly skeptical about Todd Howard's claims, but I know whatever game Bethesda makes I likely WILL enjoy. It's this mentality that has allowed me to enjoy Fallout 76. I wish they'd quit dumbing down RPG mechanics and would get their storytelling in order, but it's not like I don't have fun with their products.

 

I have to admit, though, I'm not sure if it's really reasonable to say people should just "know better" than to believe the claims they are making. If it's what they're advertising, why shouldn't people believe it? They probably just shouldn't make these overambitious claims in the first place, but either way I think they actually mean well, they just aren't grounded enough in reality. (Can't say the same about the suits.)

21 hours ago, endgameaddiction said:

Where else have I heard a similar line.

 

https://nsfwmods.com/forums/topic/593-fallout-76/?do=findComment&comment=6626

You're right, that is indeed a similar line. Not really sure how that's relevant, though. I guess it is an example that other people have come to the same conclusion I have? (Which doesn't mean much, plenty of people come to the same conclusions as others while nevertheless being wrong.)

 

In a topic that appears to also be about Fallout 76 on a website that even looks somewhat similar to LoversLab, it's not really surprising to find similar sentiments as ones in this topic.

20 hours ago, CramHunter said:

The way I see it, the memes around Todd Howard are generally an endearing endavour, not an antagonizing one. People gobbling up PR-speak and believing it, well. You only have yourself to blame for that. The average consumer should know by now that EVERYTHING someone says in their role as a representative of their respective company should be taken with a huge grain of salt.

I don't agree with everything you said in your whole post, but I mostly agree with it. I'm not sure such a dynamic of skepticism should really be the status quo, but I admit it's nothing new that companies are exaggerating their products. How much should people know better and how much should companies just stop doing it in the first place? I'm not entirely sure.

 

I imagine these recent Bethesda leaks, since the poster is trying to remain anonymous, are a much more candid look at what's going on and how people feel. (Well, assuming the leaks are legitimate.) I wouldn't be surprised if Todd Howard actually agrees with a number of the points expressed in them, but he can't really admit that publicly.

[cleavagesweat]

here's an interesting article:

 

https://segmentnext.com/2018/12/10/chris-avellone-bethesda-the-outer-worlds/

 

Chris Avellone and some original Fallout devs parted ways after creative differences and he had this to say:

 

"Well my experience has been if a dev/publisher doesn't want to listen, they won't listen, so your words evaporate as soon as spoken."

 

[endgameaddiction]

So he's mad at Pete now? But a few weeks ago he was all over his nuts right about the time he had left Obsidian. I guess all that kissing ass to Pete and defending 76 served for nothing.

[CramHunter]

29 minutes ago, endgameaddiction said:

So he's mad at Pete now? But a few weeks ago he was all over his nuts right about the time he had left Obsidian. I guess all that kissing ass to Pete and defending 76 served for nothing.

Can you provide sources for these claims? Considering that Avellone left Obsidian more than three YEARS ago and has been working as a freelance writer ever since I highly doubt your statement is accurate.

[Lexi SubZero]

17 hours ago, winny257 said:

friendly fire 

 

on kick back ?

?

[patches13]

There's some of those I haven't seen yet, going to have to hunt for them!

[FauxFurry]

Here is an interesting more-or-less positive review for Fallout 76, finding favor in the fact that it is unabashedly, unashamedly the culmination of the direction which BGS has been taking the franchise at least since Fallout 4 if not all along.

 

[winny257]

14 hours ago, FauxFurry said:

Here is an interesting more-or-less positive review for Fallout 76, finding favor in the fact that it is unabashedly, unashamedly the culmination of the direction which BGS has been taking the franchise at least since Fallout 4 if not all along.

Spoiler

 

 

Report to the video

https://www.reddit.com/r/Fallout/comments/a4vmw7/how_does_fallout_76_compare_to_previous_fallouts/

[cleavagesweat]

i'm so bored of 76 news but here is another new vid. sales-wise it was a flop but does anyone know if it was a Big Flop, Moderate-Flop or Small Flop? I was curious as to how much money they lost (at least in the interim). doesn't help that every reviewer and fucking "wanna-be youtube superstar reviewer" props up their sales figures. I know you might say that its a small amount of wanna-be dooshes but is it? is it?

 

 

[landess]

While I myself have no interest in an online Bethesda game ('76/ESO), between player expectations and whatever really occurred in the backrooms of the Bethesda/Zenimax studios, it's easy to see why there's such a fuss.

 

Players are more empowered to speak out then ever before. Too many Game companies have awoken the ire of the public, and right or wrong, the pendulum has swung to the other side for now. Where as before we players had to tiptoe through the media doubletalk to actually find facts, it seems we now have to do the same with player response. As for YouTube reviews, etc., common sense dictates to take any information from a content creator with respect to their relationship desires with Publisher's/Developers into consideration.

 

I hate waste! Even if a game or movie, anything for that matter, doesn't appeal to me, I'm glad if someone finds value in the time and money spent to create.

 

EA for example, was one of my go-to companies for games starting with my Commodore64 days. I learned to move on. It's painful to see a relationship go south, but the healthy thing to do is accept it and find other outlets to fill that need. Attempting to force anyone to comply with our wishes is an exercise in futility.

[patches13]

On 12/9/2018 at 12:23 PM, DFSL said:

Anybody got this one? NPCs attacking each other. At "Big B's Rest Stop" the super mutant boss there beat one of his foot soldiers to death after the dumb thing accidentally set off an explosion with the semi trailer tractor blocking the abandoned highway. First time ever I saw this on a Bethesda Game and the glitch made the game look realistic for a few seconds.
Oh, and since the latest patch most of the instances of enemies t-posing are gone but now many of them shoot at my character without even drawing their weapons.

 

 

Ya I've seen that before, only with super mutants though. I have seen a lot of 1 "faction" fighting another though. Like scourge attacking murlaks, murlaks fighting super mutants, etc. This latest patch has been a blast so far.

[CramHunter]

6 hours ago, landess said:

Players are more empowered to speak out then ever before. Too many Game companies have awoken the ire of the public, and right or wrong, the pendulum has swung to the other side for now. Where as before we players had to tiptoe through the media doubletalk to actually find facts, it seems we now have to do the same with player response. As for YouTube reviews, etc., common sense dictates to take any information from a content creator with respect to their relationship desires with Publisher's/Developers into consideration.

Bethesda fucked up when they blacklisted the entirety of gaming journalism (if you still want to call it that) and tried to focus mostly on influencers instead. All what the major outlets had to do was grab the overall opinion that had already formed around the game and regurgitate it. Which is what influencers already did, especially those that weren't invited to Bethesda's little event. So nobody really had a reason to not shit on the game (which is overall deserved, but happened for the wrong reasons IMO) because you had nothing to lose, Bethesda essentially blacklisted you anyways. Gaming journalists are notorious for not caring about games or gamers and instead often fantasize about sucking that juicy corporate dick more and more. But here, they could trash a game and garner a few brownie points, pretending they were actually critical for once. After all is said and done, gaming journos still need clicks from the average consumer, so it's good to pretend to care about your audience every now and then.

 

tl;dr: I think both independent content creators and mainstream outlets are sitting in the same boat, and Zenimax really, really dropped the ball this time by fundamentally not understanding how things in their own industry work.

[cleavagesweat]

I guess they're gonna milk it until Bethesda stops giving them fodder.

 

 

 

I think it's safe to say that they are definitely under a microscope now...

 

 

[CramHunter]

1 hour ago, cleavagesweat said:

I guess they're gonna milk it until Bethesda stops giving them fodder.

 

And you're doing them a service by advertising their content. For free. I think google went a bit too far with their upgraded youtube-algorithm because it's so effective it has started to infect human minds. Honestly, the amount of people I see in forums who tend to communicate in youtube videos is mind-boggling. It's like the user him-/herself isn't present at all.

[cleavagesweat]

11 minutes ago, CramHunter said:

And you're doing them a service by advertising their content. For free. I think google went a bit too far with their upgraded youtube-algorithm because it's so effective it has started to infect human minds. Honestly, the amount of people I see in forums who tend to communicate in youtube videos is mind-boggling. It's like the user him-/herself isn't present at all.

why wouldn't I help them? I agree with them duh... DUH!

[FauxFurry]

41 minutes ago, CramHunter said:

And you're doing them a service by advertising their content. For free. I think google went a bit too far with their upgraded youtube-algorithm because it's so effective it has started to infect human minds. Honestly, the amount of people I see in forums who tend to communicate in youtube videos is mind-boggling. It's like the user him-/herself isn't present at all.

This thread was built entirely upon an announcement from a game publisher. That is pretty much the only reason for this thread to continue to exist seeing as how it is long past its use-by date with the game already being released, reviewed, rejected and refund refused.

It amuses people to use it as an aggregator of content, be it video reviews, news articles or even other forum threads so it continues on. 

 

I would probably be concerned if people posted video links as responses in every other thread, though.

[CramHunter]

1 hour ago, cleavagesweat said:

why wouldn't I help them? I agree with them duh... DUH!

To quote Carl Jung: "I am a man, and you know how much men are accustomed to seeing thoughts as their very own, so that they eventually confuse them with themselves."

1 hour ago, FauxFurry said:

This thread was built entirely upon an announcement from a game publisher. That is pretty much the only reason for this thread to continue to exist seeing as how it is long past its use-by date with the game already being released, reviewed, rejected and refund refused.

It amuses people to use it as an aggregator of content, be it video reviews, news articles or even other forum threads so it continues on. 

 

I would probably be concerned if people posted video links as responses in every other thread, though.

I think there's plenty of room for actual discussion surrounding FO76 and the video game industry in general. But many are content by warping their perception through a continuous positive feedback loop. Mindlessly consuming media that reinforces your opinion, over and over again. Doesn't matter if the information is accurate or not; the only thing that is of concern is whether your confirmation bias gets satisfied. Which is the poison that slowly kills the internet, if I'm allowed to be overly dramatic for a moment. Because it leads to late-stage tribalism, where everyone that disagrees with you is either a bot, sockpuppet account, shill or troll. If you're not one of 'us', you must in turn be one of 'them'. Most people nowadays cannot fathom that there's a single legitimate position that actually opposes theirs.

[prinyo]

The drama around V76 is far from over... it seems Bethesda is preparing to add "Lunchboxes" with XP, damage and other boosts in the "cosmetics only" MT store.

[winny257]

?

[Kendo 2]

8 hours ago, prinyo said:

The drama around V76 is far from over... it seems Bethesda is preparing to add "Lunchboxes" with XP, damage and other boosts in the "cosmetics only" MT store.

I called that before the game was released.

Pete Hines Spin: They're not lootboxes, they're lunch boxes.  And they're not pay-to-win, they're exp boosts and stat buffs you earn with days-worth of mindless grinding for Atoms OR (heh-heh) you can buy them with mommy's credit card.

[Ernest Lemmingway]

2 hours ago, Kendo 2 said:

I called that before the game was released.

Pete Hines Spin: They're not lootboxes, they're lunch boxes.  And they're not pay-to-win, they're exp boosts and stat buffs you earn with days-worth of mindless grinding for Atoms OR (heh-heh) you can buy them with mommy's credit card.

That could come back to haunt Bugthesda. The Federal Trade Commission is already under pressure to investigate paid loot boxes. Specifically whether they should be treated as a form of gambling. If they do, then games that use them will be forced to take an Adults Only rating and be removed from retail shelves and mainstream e-stores or remove the paid loot boxes from the games. Various European Union countries and Japan have all signed an agreement to ban paid loot boxes from video games in their borders, so there's an added element of international pressure. Studies are showing that paid loot boxes do lead to gambling addiction in children, which is bound to draw in the SJWs as well.