Fallout 76 announcement? (Bethesda Live Stream)

[Kendo 2]

1 minute ago, CramHunter said:

Well, I don't speak lawyer, but modifying the software sounds more like tampering with how it works, like what the script extender and ENB does. And both aren't allowed on the nexus. ?

According to the license definitions 'the Software' is anything that's installed along with the game.  It is a blanket term and It doesn't differentiate between dlls, inis, exes, etc.

 

And I do speak lawyer because patents and licensing are a major part of my RL job.

[Kendo 2]

There's a Club feature on the site where people can talk about whatever they want (basically) and only invite like-minded people.  Since FO76 is a running joke at this point I don't see why the fans of the game here aren't using that feature.  They can share screenshots, talk about modding the game or anything else they want and no one would be the wiser.

[Guest]

OK. The thread is being watched now.

Do not derail and do not insult other members.

 

Please STAY ON TOPIC.  Off topic posts will be removed.

[patches13]

3 minutes ago, Outlast1 said:

Well I think there is a club setup here that is for general game discussion and updates. A club just for FO76 seems kinda wasteful unless we gonna discuss the game industry in its entirety and help educate people on the horrid predatory operations that Beth_EA_sda and others do. Then I would probably like that.

 

 

This game doesn't merit a club setup, it's just like every other Bethesda game on launch only amplified because it's "online" and there's micro-transactions that are horribly overpriced. I mean charging $4.00 to color your pipboy black...where do they get off thinking this is a good deal?

 

But the game world is true to other Fallout titles, with tons of environmental storytelling that some of us come to appreciate and love. The main quest line was short, but they handled the power curve they suffered from in Fallout IV fairly well. Even at level 140 I still get my ass handed to me sometimes when I get too cocky. There's a few of us that like the game despite it's flaws, but too few to warrant anything more than multiple threads (when they are on different aspects of Fallout 76) in the general discussion...just like all the other games you find here. 

[landess]

6 hours ago, Alkpaz said:

Over on Steam they have a finger on the ban button.

Since Steam is a platform to sell games, it's not surprising to see heavy handed tactics which could result in the loss of even a single sale. But then again - Once you've had a taste of human flesh, is anything else as sweet?

 

Considering the press '76 is getting, I'm sure they want to nip most negativity in the bud.

[patches13]

15 hours ago, Alkpaz said:

Frack, Beth can take out a PS4! Wow.. that makes almost any other review that says "It's not that bad" like no.. it IS that bad. Seriously, this vid nails it hard. The whole drop in price a few days later is also a "dick move", to anyone, and I mean anyone who pre-ordered or bought it at release. It's like Beth didn't even give a damn to customers themselves. Yanno, I was on the sidelines (with Beth) before this vid.. not no more. That is just absolutely terrible, "oh but the PC version is fine and dandy" sure, if they can't even code for a damn console, you think I want to trust them with another piece of hardware? Yeah, thanks, I'd rather keep my PC ALIVE! 

 

Seriously, people watch that vid, it is just THAT bad. 

 

This makes "No Man's Sky" release smell like virtual roses in comparison. Hell, even 2yrs later the devs of that game are still patching/adding things. Beth? Yeah they patch just about the same consistency of EA, which makes them worse than ANY EA title ever frackin released. 

 

I'd rather play this game than FO76: 

 

 

At least that game had 3D train tracks, unlike Just Cause 4.. but that is another discussion.

 

 

Gave it a watch, this guy rehashes exactly what 99% of the other video's in this thread says, hell as he's leaving the vault for the first time he even begins his review with, "now you have to explore the world...and...that's about it." Seriously? You can say the same for every other Fallout game. You start the game and you explore it. First he complains there's nothing to do, then he complains that as he's doing the main quest he gets a ton of other quests. Truly riveting and impartial review here.?

 

What's more funny is he prefaces the video saying he's NEVER played another fallout game, and then claims that the combat system is exactly the same as every other fallout game...which is a lie. Fallout 76 has a ton of problems but this bandwagon wannabee reviewer brings nothing to the table that hasn't already been screamed ad-nasum. He even complains about how he ended up in a area of the building he hadn't unlocked yet while playing a online RPG with other people around him doing the same quest...

 

I prefer the other reviewers that brought up legit problems and didn't complain about non-problems and silly "issues" 1 week after launch having admittedly only playing it a couple of times total. Then the game locked up his PS4. It didn't kill it. 

 

 

 

[winny257]

20 hours ago, patches13 said:

 

 

They've already said they won't support mod's, just like they don't support mod's in other Bethesda titles. However they didn't say you couldn't use them. Here's their official "answer" on modding Fallout 76.

 

https://help.bethesda.net/app/answers/detail/a_id/44429/kw/Mod

 

[winny257]

20 hours ago, CramHunter said:

Well, I don't speak lawyer, but modifying the software sounds more like tampering with how it works, like what the script extender and ENB does. And both aren't allowed on the nexus. ?

 

[landess]

Media outlets like CNN and FOX make most YouTube scrubs sound like the amateurs they are when it comes to manipulative reporting....

 

From any episode of the 60's show Dragnet : 'Please, just the facts' - Sgt. Joe Friday

[Kendo 2]

1 hour ago, landess said:

'Please, just the facts' - Sgt. Joe Friday

Fact: Bethesda doesn't support FO76 modding.

Fact: Altering any of the files installed with FO76 violates your software licence and they can legally block your access to the game.

[D_ManXX2]

mxr you dirty cheater that lock pick reveler will get him banned on a multplayer game.

[Kendo 2]

 

[prinyo]

The real drama will start when Bethesda does release the "private worlds" with modding (expected in November 2019, but I think May 2019 is quite possible). Then users will start asking for ports of  FO4 mods and the discussions about V76 will spread all over. I expect this will create a split within the community way bigger than anything we have seen until now.

[patches13]

19 hours ago, winny257 said:

 

 

"Please be aware that the use of such applications may result in Fallout 76 not functioning properly."

 

 

Clearly says that Fallout 76 might not function properly and that they won't give you any support if your "modded" character gets trashed. Not even in a roundabout lawyer way does it say you will be banned. Which has been their stance From Morrowind up through now on every Bethesda title that LL became a thing modding. We're good.

 

Edit: But just like every other Fallout/Elder Scrolls title, I'm not telling you what to do. I'm just telling you what some of us are doing. Be responsible for yourself!

[winny257]

29 minutes ago, patches13 said:

 

"Please be aware that the use of such applications may result in Fallout 76 not functioning properly."

 

 

Clearly says that Fallout 76 might not function properly and that they won't give you any support if your "modded" character gets trashed. Not even in a roundabout lawyer way does it say you will be banned. Which has been their stance From Morrowind up through now on every Bethesda title that LL became a thing modding. We're good.

 

Edit: But just like every other Fallout/Elder Scrolls title, I'm not telling you what to do. I'm just telling you what some of us are doing. Be responsible for yourself!

even the second video from MXR states *Fallout 76 already has mods... but they could get you banned*!
me it's indifferent what you do, I know what I am doing, not buy, not a cent more for Bethesda.

 

this incompetent company does not deserve my money! 

 

 

rather I would burn my money!!! 

 

[Kendo 2]

6 hours ago, patches13 said:

 

"Please be aware that the use of such applications may result in Fallout 76 not functioning properly."

 

Clearly says that Fallout 76 might not function properly and that they won't give you any support if your "modded" character gets trashed. Not even in a roundabout lawyer way does it say you will be banned. Which has been their stance From Morrowind up through now on every Bethesda title that LL became a thing modding. We're good.

 

Edit: But just like every other Fallout/Elder Scrolls title, I'm not telling you what to do. I'm just telling you what some of us are doing. Be responsible for yourself!

Clearly says if you modify the software you violate the game's license.

Spoiler

YOUR USE OF THIS SOFTWARE IS SUBJECT TO THIS LIMITED SOFTWARE WARRANTY AND LICENSE AGREEMENT (THE “AGREEMENT”) AND THE TERMS SET FORTH BELOW.

LICENSE CONDITIONS
You agree not to:
(g)Reverse engineer, decompile, disassemble or otherwise modify the Software, in whole or in part;

TERMINATION: 
This Agreement and the licenses granted under this Agreement are effective until terminated. They shall terminate automatically without notice if you fail to comply with any provision of this Agreement. Upon termination you shall immediately cease using the Software, and destroy the Software, the Documentation, and the other parts of the Software, and all copies of any parts thereof.

 

FO76 isn't a single player closed system game like "Morrowind up through now on every Bethesda title" so NO it 's not the same thing.  ESO is an online multiplayer game and people are not allowed to mod it, yet somehow FO76 is different; it's okay to mod it even though the license clearly states it's not.  FO76 has an online store and the license doesn't allow for 3rd party software or altering the game's base files.  And the two sentences on Bethesda's Help page clearly do not state it is okay to mod the game.   'We do not support modding' doesn't equal 'Yes, you can mod the game'.

CLEARLY modding the game is not supported by Bethesda.  They say it plainly on the Bethesda Help page and the license you obviously haven't read prohibits it, and you agreed not to mod the game when you installed it.  END.OF.STORY.  Nowhere does any documentation give players permission to mod the game.  If it exists, POST IT.

[patches13]

49 minutes ago, Kendo 2 said:

Clearly says if you modify the software you violate the game's license.

  Reveal hidden contents

YOUR USE OF THIS SOFTWARE IS SUBJECT TO THIS LIMITED SOFTWARE WARRANTY AND LICENSE AGREEMENT (THE “AGREEMENT”) AND THE TERMS SET FORTH BELOW.

LICENSE CONDITIONS
You agree not to:
(g)Reverse engineer, decompile, disassemble or otherwise modify the Software, in whole or in part;

TERMINATION: 
This Agreement and the licenses granted under this Agreement are effective until terminated. They shall terminate automatically without notice if you fail to comply with any provision of this Agreement. Upon termination you shall immediately cease using the Software, and destroy the Software, the Documentation, and the other parts of the Software, and all copies of any parts thereof.

 

FO76 isn't a single player closed system game like "Morrowind up through now on every Bethesda title" so NO it 's not the same thing.  ESO is an online multiplayer game and people are not allowed to mod it, yet somehow FO76 is different; it's okay to mod it even though the license clearly states it's not.  FO76 has an online store and the license doesn't allow for 3rd party software or altering the game's base files.  And the two sentences on Bethesda's Help page clearly do not state it is okay to mod the game.   'We do not support modding' doesn't equal 'Yes, you can mod the game'.

CLEARLY modding the game is not supported by Bethesda.  They say it plainly on the Bethesda Help page and the license you obviously haven't read prohibits it, and you agreed not to mod the game when you installed it.  END.OF.STORY.  Nowhere does any documentation give players permission to mod the game.  If it exists, POST IT.

 

I missed that then. Where does it state you can NOT mod Fallout 76? I showed where it clearly said that if you DO mod Fallout 76 they will not be responsible if your game stops functioning properly. Not functioning properly =/= you are not allowed to mod. Todd even did interviews in the past talking about how they plan to roll out "official" support for mods in 2019. Also, this game isn't ESO. Not made by the same company, not ran by the same company. Also, ESO says clearly you cannot mod their game or you are breaking their EULA. Fallout 76 doesn't say this.

 

But once again, I'm saying what some of us are doing. Do what you want or if you don't even have the game...why do you care?

 

Edit: Here's a interview with Todd Howard himself saying Fallout 76 will someday officially support mods. They just will be concentrating on making sure the game runs right in the beginning. So...I guess this settles it then?

 

 

https://www.pcgamer.com/fallout-76-will-have-mod-support-but-not-at-launch/

 

Edit 2: Was bored so did a little research into ESO....it looks like you CAN mod that game too lol. Per their TOS;

 

https://account.elderscrollsonline.com/terms-of-service#_EN_Toc_02

 

Game Mods 
 

Content also includes Game Mods. The term "Game Mod" means downloadable, user-generated Content developed or created by You or a third party using an Editor Tool (as defined below). In certain cases, as determined by ZeniMax, Game Mods may be made available to other users of a Service or a Game and in such cases, such other users may download the Game Mods from ZeniMax or third parties and use such Game Mods in connection with playing a Game or receiving a Service from ZeniMax.

 

If You desire to develop or create one or more Game Mods, then You will be required to download from a ZeniMax website or otherwise gain access to via a ZeniMax website one or more software tools through which You may create or develop Game Mods (each such tool is an "Editor Tool"). To obtain a copy of or get access to any such Editor Tool, You will be required to agree to the terms of a separate EULA (the "Editor EULA"). If there is a conflict between the terms and conditions in any such Editor EULA and the terms and conditions in these Terms of Service, the terms in the Editor EULA will control over the conflicting terms in these Terms of Service but solely for purpose of the specific Editor Tool and not for any other purpose. Please review the terms in the Editor EULA carefully.

 

With respect to Game Mods made available for download from a ZeniMax website or made available from a ZeniMax server, ZeniMax may, at any time and in its sole discretion, elect to remove such Game Mods from the ZeniMax website(s) or server(s) without notice to You.

 

 

 

So I guess you can mod ESO AND Fallout 76! Good news for anyone interested!!! You're welcome.

[Guest]

Keep the tones down, guys.

Avoid bold and underline if not useful to spot a specific word.

 

As stated in a few US lawsuits, you are never allowed (if not explicitly permitted) to modify a software you bought and redistribute the modification.

You can modify the software for yourself, this is perfectly right in all western countries (no clues about Asia) but you cannot redistribute your alterations (the mod.)

 

So, also if said with a rude language, kendo2 point is valid. This game cannot be modified and then the modifications redistributed.

I had a bad experience a few weeks ago with Ubisoft, while trying to modify Assassin Creed Odyssey. My GitHub page was shut down by them.

[Kendo 2]

EDIT: never mind.  CPU did the work for me.?  Argue with him.

[patches13]

1 minute ago, Kendo 2 said:

 

You agree not to:
(g)Reverse engineer, decompile, disassemble or otherwise modify the Software, in whole or in part;

 

THAT is modding.  As in 'modify' since a mod is a 'modification' by definition.  Modify the game's software, violate the license.  It's spelled out in black and white.

 

 

So it says you can modify, then it says you cannot modify, then even Todd Howard says you can modify. Lot's of back and forth there. I guess it only matters to those that play the game and want to play with mods. 

 

 

6 minutes ago, CPU said:

Keep the tones down, guys.

Avoid bold and underline if not useful to spot a specific word.

 

As stated in a few US lawsuits, you are never allowed (if not explicitly permitted) to modify a software you bought and redistribute the modification.

You can modify the software for yourself, this is perfectly right in all western countries (no clues about Asia) but you cannot redistribute your alterations (the mod.)

 

So, also if said with a rude language, kendo2 point is valid. This game cannot be modified and then the modifications redistributed.

I had a bad experience a few weeks ago with Ubisoft, while trying to modify Assassin Creed Odyssey. My GitHub page was shut down by them.

 

 

Isn't this to prevent pirating and redistribution of the software? Also, if that is true then the people who make and distribute the mods are in the wrong, not the ones using the mods I guess. Feels like people are trying to split hairs on if you should mod or not which is really crazy seeing that this is a modding website dedicated to the more extreme kinds of mods. And sorry/thanks for the heads up on the underlining/bolding comment. I was trying to draw specific attention to that word because I'd quoted the source material and had linked the source material a few times. If the EULA for Fallout 76 states you cannot modify the game (haven't looked in the EULA yet to verify) what is the precedent then where you have multiple official sources contradicting each other?

 

 

[Kendo 2]

9 minutes ago, patches13 said:

If the EULA for Fallout 76 states you cannot modify the game (haven't looked in the EULA yet to verify) what is the precedent then where you have multiple official sources contradicting each other?

U.S. licensing code precedent is 'which ever one is published first'.  So if a license issued in 2012 says you can modify software and a new license issued in 2015 says you can't then the 2012 license stands, basically.  Alternatively it's which ever license benefits the plaintiff.  He who sues first wins by default.

[patches13]

46 minutes ago, Kendo 2 said:

U.S. licensing code precedent is 'which ever one is published first'.  So if a license issued in 2012 says you can modify software and a new license issued in 2015 says you can't then the 2012 license stands, basically.  Alternatively it's which ever license benefits the plaintiff.  He who sues first wins by default.

 

 

Then you can mod Fallout 76. Todd Howard has been saying you can mod this game since it was announced. Cool to know.

 

Edit: Just looked and all the EULA's for Fallout/Elder Scrolls that I looked at (Skyrim, Fallout 4, Fallout 3) contained the same "(g) Reverse engineer, decompile, disassemble or otherwise modify the Software, in whole or in part;"  Guess LL/Nexus and all the other modding sites have been in the wrong this entire time?

[Guest]

24 minutes ago, patches13 said:

 

Isn't this to prevent pirating and redistribution of the software? Also, if that is true then the people who make and distribute the mods are in the wrong, not the ones using the mods I guess. Feels like people are trying to split hairs on if you should mod or not which is really crazy seeing that this is a modding website dedicated to the more extreme kinds of mods. And sorry/thanks for the heads up on the underlining/bolding comment. I was trying to draw specific attention to that word because I'd quoted the source material and had linked the source material a few times. If the EULA for Fallout 76 states you cannot modify the game (haven't looked in the EULA yet to verify) what is the precedent then where you have multiple official sources contradicting each other?

 

There are a few lawsuits we can reference, but it will get boring.

Again, when you buy a software you:

* CAN modify it and use only for yourself.

* CANNOT modify it and share the modified parts.

(That if it is not stated otherwise in the license)

[Kendo 2]

11 minutes ago, patches13 said:

Then you can mod Fallout 76. Todd Howard has been saying you can mod this game since it was announced. Cool to know.

Todd Howard stating in an interview that the game can be modded is not a license for published software, the EULA is.  When Bethesda releases the CreationKit/editor/whatever they will amend the license (without prior notice) just like they did with 32bit Skyrim and paid mods on Steam back in 2015.  The game won't launch until you install an 'update' that doesn't update any files other than your online registry for the game, showing that you agreed to the terms of the new license.

 

Todd Howard can say anything he wants.  Bethesda.net can post anything they want.  Those instances do not constitute a change in the EULA downloaders agree to when they install the game.  Only your acknowledgement of a  new or amended license changes what you originally agreed too.  You can argue all day but that won't change the facts; you agreed to a license that says you can't edit or alter the software you installed.  I don't get why this is so hard to understand.  It's a contract you willingly entered into and you don't have a valid claim to remedy or amend it.  If you don't like the fact that you can't mod the game without violating the license then you never should have installed it.

[patches13]

Just now, Kendo 2 said:

Todd Howard stating in an interview that the game can be modded is not a license for published software, the EULA is.  When Bethesda releases the CreationKit/editor/whatever they will amend the license (without prior notice) just like they did with 32bit Skyrim and paid mods on Steam back in 2015.  The game won't launch until you install an 'update' that doesn't update any files other than your online registry for the game, showing that you agreed to the terms of the new license.

 

Todd Howard can say anything he wants.  Bethesda.net can post anything they want.  Those instances do not constitute a change in the EULA downloaders agree to when they install the game.  Only your acknowledgement of a  new or amended license changes what you originally agreed too.  You can argue all day but that won't change the facts; you agreed to a license that says you can't edit or alter the software you installed.  I don't get why this is so hard to understand.  It's a contract you willingly entered into and you don't have a valid claim to remedy or amend it.  If you don't like the fact that you can't mod the game without violating the license then you never should have installed it.

 

 

The EULA's for older Fallout/Elder scroll games I looked at still contained that "g) Reverse engineer, decompile, disassemble or otherwise modify the Software, in whole or in part;"  part...so not sure how valid that is for modding the game like what LL does.