What's on your mind?

[GrimReaper]

16 hours ago, RitualClarity said:

Well.. I know the history.. My "current" avatar was from 2012   I've kicked around modding forums in one form or another for a very long time.  (Never on wolflore/hongfire though. Missed that for some reason. Don't remember why currently. ) As in the past... things change until I just lose interest and desire and move on. As for Patron and other forms like that. I have made it clear that I am not a fan of it however, it is the rule of today much like Cathedral modding was the desire of yesterday. I favor that method more than today, reason anything I have put on line be it tutorial or whatever, is free to use with mention/credit.  So much less messy when something comes along in RL that takes you away from some project or work.  the efforts you did can live on in various forms benefiting the entire community. Sad thing is ... most sites now are just that. Sites. not communities. This is becoming more and more pervasive. Any "community" that forms is fleeting and soon fades. Communities lasted longer and was more welcoming and open to working on projects and such IMO in the early Morrowind/Oblivion days as opposed to today.. again just my opinion.

 

I am glad at least that you believe that the deleting of post without commentary is a bad idea. 

2012 was when the first nexus refugees joined LL, though. I know it's not really relevant anymore, however, I was trying to make a point. Small number of people create treehouse for their interests, other people come knocking and ask if they can join, they join but proceed to take over said treehouse and afterwards act like THEY were the ones that build the treehouse and cry foul whenever it's pointed out that they, in fact, did not do that. But even if this wouldn't have happened, the whole LL becoming a billboard for patreon-thing would've happened anyway. Which is not the direction I would've taken but alas, that's not for me to decide and if I'm being honest, I'm pretty okay with that because making decisions is much harder than to sit back and criticize everything and everyone.

 

With the advent of social media, their love for engagement metrics for data harvesting and the subsequent flourishing of outrage peddling, the small cozy hobby communities of the past are just that - a relic of days gone by. That's not to say back then everything was perfect, you had your usual attention whores and drama queens that used online communities to satiate their need for endless attention but now you have that and everything else on top of it. It's dead, Jim.

[gregathit]

38 minutes ago, GrimReaper said:

That's not to say back then everything was perfect, you had your usual attention whores and drama queens that used online communities to satiate their need for endless attention but now you have that and everything else on top of it. It's dead, Jim.

Hogwash.  I came over from Wolflore and while a few faces have bowed out and moved on (which happens in all things), the "community" is largely unchanged.  Folks still come here for mods and even more for help.  They still get both.  I think you are suffering from the illusion of golden times in the past, rather than looking at the actual facts.  JMHO.  And perfect? Holy balls.  You should go read some of the archived threads from back in the day.  Talk about spicy.  The rules we have today were due to some of the shit that went on back then.  Reading the moderator logs is both funny and sad.  LL has come along way from its humble beginnings.  And it is still just as cozy a corner as it was then.  The biggest difference I see is just shear size of the site.

[Kendo 2]

23 minutes ago, gregathit said:

....Wolflore...

Good Lord you're OLD.   I remember the old Wolflore forum; along with Canadian Ice, Elric, etc.  That was back when Nexus was TESSource.  Aside from the clique-nature of those sites things really weren't as fucked up as they are now.  But back then pandering to the perpetually offended didn't happen.  'Grow up' or 'Get some thicker skin' was the go-to moderator response.  Really miss those days when being a pussy wasn't the norm.

[RitualClarity]

4 hours ago, GrimReaper said:

2012 was when the first nexus refugees joined LL, though. I know it's not really relevant anymore, however, I was trying to make a point. Small number of people create treehouse for their interests, other people come knocking and ask if they can join, they join but proceed to take over said treehouse and afterwards act like THEY were the ones that build the treehouse and cry foul whenever it's pointed out that they, in fact, did not do that. But even if this wouldn't have happened, the whole LL becoming a billboard for patreon-thing would've happened anyway. Which is not the direction I would've taken but alas, that's not for me to decide and if I'm being honest, I'm pretty okay with that because making decisions is much harder than to sit back and criticize everything and everyone.

 

With the advent of social media, their love for engagement metrics for data harvesting and the subsequent flourishing of outrage peddling, the small cozy hobby communities of the past are just that - a relic of days gone by. That's not to say back then everything was perfect, you had your usual attention whores and drama queens that used online communities to satiate their need for endless attention but now you have that and everything else on top of it. It's dead, Jim.

I believe you are m issing the point of the original comment and purpose of my comments. I wanted a clearer view of what was Political. The current view IMO was so broad that many can accidentally violate it. Not that we didn't change or that times in the past was different.  however, I do see how you were steered in that direction with my reminiscing. 

3 hours ago, gregathit said:

Hogwash.  I came over from Wolflore and while a few faces have bowed out and moved on (which happens in all things), the "community" is largely unchanged.  Folks still come here for mods and even more for help.  They still get both.  I think you are suffering from the illusion of golden times in the past, rather than looking at the actual facts.  JMHO.  And perfect? Holy balls.  You should go read some of the archived threads from back in the day.  Talk about spicy.  The rules we have today were due to some of the shit that went on back then.  Reading the moderator logs is both funny and sad.  LL has come along way from its humble beginnings.  And it is still just as cozy a corner as it was then.  The biggest difference I see is just shear size of the site.

Yes it was much of a free for all before. There are many times that rules and enforcement were done that quite frankly kept me here as what was happening was something I didn't want to be even remotely connected to. Things come and go.  The site will go in the directions it will go.  It is up the members to decide how m uch they want to interact with the site. Always has been.  One of the previous remarks that I clicked like on helped clarify some of the direction the current "no politics' rule is going into.  The only thing I can possibly ask I would guess going forward is a clarification of where some of the post went wrong when any sanction occurs. Particularly if I am in error of the site. I am pretty sure that others woudl appreciate some comments public or private as to what happened and why. How else can someone learn from their mistakes. make proper judgement of what is going on and possibly prevent future occurrences?

 

On a side note... I will comment on my surprise that so far none of this has been deleted. Which was habit previously when things seemed to hit the rails from the moderator viewpoint.

 

 

[gregathit]

2 hours ago, Kendo 2 said:

Good Lord you're OLD.   I remember the old Wolflore forum; along with Canadian Ice, Elric, etc.  That was back when Nexus was TESSource.  Aside from the clique-nature of those sites things really weren't as fucked up as they are now.  But back then pandering to the perpetually offended didn't happen.  'Grow up' or 'Get some thicker skin' was the go-to moderator response.  Really miss those days when being a pussy wasn't the norm.

Yep, I'm definitely a dinosaur.  ?

As for moderators, if you can believe it, I've been one since March 2nd, 2012 here.  I'm not sure that moderation has changed all that much here at LL.  Now at Wolflore, I was only a member there for about 2 years, and I don't remember how the site ran.  I wasn't real active, as I was just starting out learning to mod.  What I do remember was that they were very cliquey.  Not in a mean or bad way, they were just on a different level.  There were old dogs and then several young pups like me that were more or less in awe of them.  Certainly things were MUCH smaller, and perhaps that had more of a feeling of belonging and welcome.  TESSource wasn't very welcoming and at times I seem to remember it being downright hostile.  There seemed to be a bunch of splintering off of modders who founded other various sites.  I really didn't hang out there much, just grabbed what I needed and that was it.

When Ashal opened LL I looked up to folks like Nightwynd, HanPL, Grumpf, Donkey and of course The Man (Ashal).

 

As for politics, looking at the moderator logs, folks were getting warnings for it all the way back to the founding of the site.  Nasty fights were pretty common.  Same thing for religious discussions and so on.  And Spam Bots.  Holy hell there were a ton of those.

 

It was a fucking long time ago, and time tends to remove all the BS and leaves you just with the happier memories.  The old, when I walked to school it was up hill both ways kind of thing.  I don't know.  Maybe my memory just sucks.  

 

As for thicker skin, I'm all for that.  I'd agree folks are WAY too touchy feely.  You either believe what they believe or you are the enemy.  It is hard as hell to have an honest debate.  Facts are readily available (just a google search away) and yet people seem to be less informed and not more.  It is almost like creativity and curiosity were killed right after common sense.  Could be that is just the old dog in me remembering yesteryear as all rosy when it was just as much of a shitstorm.  Fuck it.  Enough nostalgia.  Got to get my rest in so I can stomp my buddies at golf tomorrow.  Couple of 12 packs, hundred bucks and pride on the line.  ?

[gregathit]

27 minutes ago, RitualClarity said:

On a side note... I will comment on my surprise that so far none of this has been deleted. Which was habit previously when things seemed to hit the rails from the moderator viewpoint.

Ashal has always wanted moderators to take a "light touch" approach.  I agree with that philosophy.  

Not to say that the riot gear has not been brought out as the occasion demanded it.

Keep in mind moderators are just unpaid volunteers.  We have good days and bad days like everyone else.  On a bad day, when brawls break out the beast can sometimes slip out.  It happens.  It is certainly possible for one of us to over react.  I certainly have.  Folks have sent me a PM to discuss it and provided they didn't start the PM with "Hey FuckCheese" or some such, then I heard them out and often reversed how I handled things.  Folks have appealed to Ashal and had him step in.  I can't speak for others, just myself.

 

We do try to keep the drama over moderation to a minimum on the forum.  If folks want to complain about what has been done or a particular moderator, the best method for that is to contact Ashal via PM.  Opening a topic saying "Attention Fucktard Moderators" will just get deleted.  Nothing good will come from it.  Other than that, I'm not much interested in trying to police speech.  There is enough of that going on in society today. ?

[KoolHndLuke]

2 hours ago, gregathit said:

Nightwynd, HanPL, Grumpf, Donkey and of course The Man (Ashal)

I'll add Prideslayer. His posts still crack me up when I find them. Was already gone when I came here. In fact a great many long time contributors and members stopped checking in this year. I hope they all just moved on to greener pasture. Even in '16 when I first started posting here, it was pretty wild and just like Kendo said. You didn't fuck with those people because they knew how to rip yo bitch ass to shreds. 

[GrimReaper]

2 hours ago, RitualClarity said:

I believe you are m issing the point of the original comment and purpose of my comments. I wanted a clearer view of what was Political. The current view IMO was so broad that many can accidentally violate it. Not that we didn't change or that times in the past was different.  however, I do see how you were steered in that direction with my reminiscing. 

Yes it was much of a free for all before. There are many times that rules and enforcement were done that quite frankly kept me here as what was happening was something I didn't want to be even remotely connected to. Things come and go.  The site will go in the directions it will go.  It is up the members to decide how m uch they want to interact with the site. Always has been.  One of the previous remarks that I clicked like on helped clarify some of the direction the current "no politics' rule is going into.  The only thing I can possibly ask I would guess going forward is a clarification of where some of the post went wrong when any sanction occurs. Particularly if I am in error of the site. I am pretty sure that others woudl appreciate some comments public or private as to what happened and why. How else can someone learn from their mistakes. make proper judgement of what is going on and possibly prevent future occurrences?

 

On a side note... I will comment on my surprise that so far none of this has been deleted. Which was habit previously when things seemed to hit the rails from the moderator viewpoint.

 

 

I didn't forget your point, I just wanted to point out that the rules kept changing and were expanded upon for a reason.

2 hours ago, gregathit said:

As for politics, looking at the moderator logs, folks were getting warnings for it all the way back to the founding of the site.  Nasty fights were pretty common.  Same thing for religious discussions and so on.  And Spam Bots.  Holy hell there were a ton of those.

 

I'm not sure how people were getting warnings for politics before said rule was announced. If the wayback machine is correct, that rule didn't exist prior to August 2013.

[Kendo 2]

16 minutes ago, KoolHndLuke said:

You didn't fuck with those people because they knew how to rip yo bitch ass to shreds. 

All those people got chased off when the 'kinder-gentler' LL pandering horseshit started.  Me, you, CaptainCobra...we're just about all that's left from when the site was fun.  Too much 'that might hurt someone's feelings' goin on now.  God forbid some SJW hypocrite comes here for his rape mods and reads something he doesn't like.

?Clown world in full effect.?

[GrimReaper]

[Mr. Otaku]

[Kendo 2]

SOCIAL justice warriors.  Trying to make something about politics when it isn't just because someone doesn't like what I posted...what for it...proves the point I was making. ?

[MadMansGun]

 

[FauxFurry]

51 minutes ago, Kendo 2 said:

SOCIAL justice warriors.  Trying to make something about politics when it isn't just because someone doesn't like what I posted...what for it...proves the point I was making. ?

Social Media Worriers. Just have a laugh at their silliness then ignore them. If they had any real influence here, either most of the content would have been removed from the download sections or the sit itself would vanish from the Internet. 

 

If anything, the fact that their sites show up when searching for LoversLab means that their more skeptical users will be pointed in the direction of this site and may like what they see rather than go into conniption fits. 

[GrimReaper]

52 minutes ago, Kendo 2 said:

SOCIAL justice warriors.  Trying to make something about politics when it isn't just because someone doesn't like what I posted...what for it...proves the point I was making. ?

You're mistaken. Neither am I an SJW nor do I dislike what you post. In fact, I'd be sad to see your content gone because you're my favorite content creator - at least as far as posts can be considered content - so I'm glad that despite your numerous claims to be done with LL you never followed through with it. You are, however, free to believe whatever you want to believe, of course.

[Kendo 2]

Your attempted meme disproves what you're trying to assert now but...

8 minutes ago, GrimReaper said:

believe whatever you want to believe

[gregathit]

3 hours ago, GrimReaper said:

I'm not sure how people were getting warnings for politics before said rule was announced. If the wayback machine is correct, that rule didn't exist prior to August 2013.

While discussion of it was not against the rules, folks took that discussion WAY too far and the discussion became a full fledged brawl (harken to that scene from Ron Burgundy):

Spoiler

 

 

[gregathit]

3 hours ago, Kendo 2 said:

God forbid some SJW hypocrite comes here for his rape mods and reads something he doesn't like.

You would not believe how many reports we get every week whining about rape and bestiality mods.  

[Mr. Otaku]

1 minute ago, gregathit said:

You would not believe how many reports we get every week whining about rape and bestiality mods.  

From who? Users within LL or from the outside? If so, how?

[KoolHndLuke]

3 minutes ago, gregathit said:

You would not believe how many reports we get every week whining about rape and bestiality mods.  

What? That they don't do enough? And you say....?

[FauxFurry]

Oh, for goodness sake. Now Kurt Russel is being hassled about his having a no politics policy when engaging in interviews and chatting with the public at large.

Even the rich and famous don't seem to be able to escape this nonsense these days. 

It looks as if he'll be playing Punished Snake after all.

[Kendo 2]

2 minutes ago, gregathit said:

You would not believe how many reports we get every week whining about rape and bestiality mods.  

No, I WOULD believe it.  Google BuzzFeed Sims4 and look at the amount of traffic it gets.  Sims4 on BuzzFeed, Sims4 on LL.

[GrimReaper]

15 minutes ago, Kendo 2 said:

Your attempted meme disproves what you're trying to assert now but...

I wouldn't spend a minute on something I wouldn't at least find entertaining so I'm not sure what your point is but you do you.

[gregathit]

13 minutes ago, Mr. Otaku said:

From who? Users within LL or from the outside? If so, how?

Users within LL.  Most are very recent additions obviously.

13 minutes ago, KoolHndLuke said:

What? That they don't do enough? And you say....?

They whine about it being immoral and/or illegal, blah, blah whatever.  We respond in the manner they deserve, we ignore them.

7 minutes ago, Kendo 2 said:

No, I WOULD believe it.  Google BuzzFeed Sims4 and look at the amount of traffic it gets.  Sims4 on BuzzFeed, Sims4 on LL.

I can believe it.  However, not all are Sims4 users.

The really funny part of all of this is going back to the beginning of this site, it was LoversJoburg, LoversRaperS and LoversCreatures that wolflore was banning that were a major part of this site being formed in the first place.  Oh the irony.

[KoolHndLuke]

Yep, grab the mods while you can people. The castle is under siege. We also have sympathizers in our midst.

 

Good thing I just expanded my storage capacity.