Paid mods and Bethesda announcement on the E3

[Darkening Demise]

Modders make something Bethesda takes money from the modder. Wow. Talk about a dick move. Typical Howard. I bet it just works too.

Nexus does it better; give 100% of the donation to the modder. Sad that even a corrupt backwards modding hypocritical site is better than Bethesda themselves. Used to be the other way around. Patreon, Paypal, and other forms of donations are far better. Creation Club is just their Paid Mods 2.0 without it being 'paid mods' like before. Of course the internet is not having it as many are already flipping out. And for a good reason. If we don't riot then we will never get our way. By being civil and doing petitions we will only get stepped on further. Murica and many other nations were not formed on being civil. Neither will the end of paid mods.

 

Take Two is already on a war with mods as well.

[Canaris]

Thanks for deleting my posts.

Nothing says "im right" more, than people trying to censor and silence you. 

 

People are overlooking the big picture that leddis and Canaris have pointed out. If this isn't fought and taken down now, then there is a great probability that in 2-5 years there will be no Loverslab or Nexus. Beth will control all mods and only their paid modders, curators, whatever can get a hold of their creation software. There's no gurantee that Beth will do this but you have to ask yourself. What do companys care about the most? Money

 

are we entitled to free mods? No.

 

Modders, do what you want. Users do what you want.

To whoever supports this now though...when the worst happens, and it most likely will, don't complain.

 

Its not a great probability but certainty.

We saw it many other times before with on disc dlc's, trying to shove always online drm's and other crap that plagues video games industry in recent years. 

Ffs, look at dlc's - it started as a Oblivion horse armor bullshit and now its huge chunks of game ( ALREADY MADE AT THE MOMENT GAME COMES OUT ) cut out to be sold for extra buck, recoloured skins, bullshit 'extra levels" made 100% with assets that are already in the game, announcing pre order bonuses the moment they annouce a game ( or even before - see Evolve ) etc etc etc. Fugg at least Oblivion Horse Armour was something original that they added after the game was out and not stuff cut out from finished game.

 

And once again - As a customer i still dont hear any PROS TO THIS CRAP.

The cons are readily available and visible from fugging Pluto but pros ? Nope, non existant. 

 

I mean for a modder its clear - i force anyone who wants to use my mod to pay me.

For a developer ( especially the agressively lazy type like Bethesda ) its also clear - someone does our work for us be we are getting paid.

But customer and fan only gets screwed and not even in a nice way.. 

 

 

Oh and dont forget one very important thing - some people will simply not be able to afford Bethesda games anymore.

When all CC TES VI comes out i will simply not buy it - not because of some grand principle or moral rule or whatever.

I will have to ignore it because i cant pay 60$ for a game + 200 $ for mods making that game playable and not barebones ( looking at you Fallout 4  ).

So when this happens i will turn my head away, maybe to honest and good developer like CDProjectRED or simply pocket the cash and not buy anything. 

[bjornk]

If this holds, I believe it will be a lot more difficult to learn how to mod for the next major moddable Bethesda title, especially if they decide to change the engine and/or modding tools. The documentation for the CK was poor even with community contribution and I doubt the "community" will be willing to contribute to anything when there's two kinds of modders, the ones who want to make money out of mods and the ones who don't. The reasons should be quite obvious. But of course Bethesda might think of ways to monetize the situation.

[DoctaSax]

hmm aye there sir, I was just seeing anger rise up and wanted to point out common ground, smooth over current tension, I love protest....cough ahem (riots) but only when I know that the community behind is behind a common goal. But I do agree with you statement.

I was only pointing out that the common ground you tried to point out was that everybody should be against it, which probably doesn't work for the people who aren't.

 

Bethesda have dangled the prospect of making money, and some in their greed are snapping for it regardless of the obvious and overreaching consequences, while the rest of us are telling them to wake up.

"some in their greed": explain to me how modders who might be interested in this are greedy.

As to the 'obvious' consequences, and how ill-advised or self-destructive you think it is, all I see on that account are worst-case scenarios that people take for proven fact. I have no doubt that Beth will fuck this up to some extent, but even they are not so stupid to work towards completely eliminating gratis modding.

 

Modders can do what they please with their own mods, and the community can tell them when what they're doing is ill advised or flat out self-destructive.

Ill-advised, who knows. In the mean time there's nothing more destructive to the community than this well-meaning advice taking the shape of calling modders greedy, and agitating once again against the system ever taking off at all, denying modders their choice.

 

I am once again sick and tired of non-modders who are against this system being painted as entitled, divisive and that we don't have a say. Without the users who play, support and give feedback for these mods, these mods are nothing more than a personal dabble.

Let's not forget that many of these players become modders themselves, and go on to make great contributions.

When it comes to what any given modder decides to release and how, users and other modders alike simply don't have a say, and never have. Downloading mods, endorsing it, providing bug reports, etc. don't give anybody any level of ownership over those mods, let alone others that aren't even made yet.

 

There's a certain group of modders out there who need to stop acting like you're special

Agreed, but I know you're not talking about me.

 

stop acting like you have the right to turn a mod into a product and stop acting the rest of us owe you anything.

When a way presents itself of doing it legally, we do have that right, whether we want to use it or not. I'm not interested in using it, but don't consider it my or your place to deny it to others. During the previous paid mods fiasco, it's precisely because of that that we lost some great modders. None of them that I know of were going to use it, they just didn't like seeing other modders who were interested get painted as sellouts and traitors, as if they owed anybody anything.

 

Some of us users do accept that people can do whatever they want with there own stuff as well

I know. Which is why I said "a lot of vocal users" rather than just users in general. I dislike the generalizations on both sides.

 

A very gross and disingenuous oversimplification.

Explain to me how it's more complicated than that, or how it's untruthful. Beth gives modders an opportunity to sell; they don't have to take it and most just won't. Beth also gives users an opportunity to buy; they don't have to take it. Beth is being very naughty, dividing the community like that.

[Kimy]

If this holds, I believe it will be a lot more difficult to learn how to mod for the next major moddable Bethesda title, especially if they decide to change the engine and/or modding tools. The documentation for the CK was poor even with community contribution and I doubt the "community" will be willing to contribute to anything when there's two kinds of modders, the ones who want to make money out of mods and the ones who don't. The reasons should be quite obvious. But of course Bethesda might think of ways to monetize the situation.

 

Honestly, I don't think it will be THAT gloomy. Looking at Cities Skylines, which adopted a model just like that, it didn't do any harm to the free modding scene. Mods still pop up for that game by the hundreds and outnumber paid mods by several orders of magnitude. There will always be modders who publish open source mods, so the next generation of modders can read the code and learn. Will a few high profile modders stop releasing stuff for free? Very likely. Others will take their place. And Beth can't kill free modding overall, as that's the primary means of recruiting new blood for their program. The model doesn't even work without free modding.

[winny257]

not only in Germany it cooks (hate)!

 

What's up with the Bethesda Hate on r/gaming and r/PCMR?

https://www.reddit.com/r/OutOfTheLoop/comments/6gr68i/whats_up_with_the_bethesda_hate_on_rgaming_and/

 

How do you feel about bethesda's creation club

https://www.gamespot.com/forums/games-discussion-1000000/how-do-you-feel-about-bethesdas-creation-club-33394710/

 

And that internet is full of it.

[bjornk]

Looking at Cities Skylines, which adopted a model just like that, it didn't do any harm to the free modding scene. Mods still pop up for that game by the hundreds and outnumber paid mods by several orders of magnitude.

Don't know that game, but starting out with a "paid mods" model on a brand new game and adopting it later on is a little different, if that's the case.

 

There will always be modders who publish open source mods

Perhaps, but how will they learn to make them in the first place?

 

Will a few high profile modders stop releasing stuff for free? Very likely. Others will take their place. And Beth can't kill free modding overall, as that's the primary means of recruiting new blood for their program. The model doesn't even work without free modding.

Which suggests that the free modding scene will eventually be a graveyard of alphas, betas and all the horrible mistakes newbies made while learning how to mod and "the club" will be offering the latest and greatest of the seasoned modders. Then people will quite possibly think, "Meh, free mods are junk".

[Lodakai]

Companies that cannot monetize their products simply go under to competition.

The only way to prevent that is to either boycott the competition, or to funnel assets to the free provider willingly (this rarely happens).

 

How many of you use linux?   How many use apple or windows?

Case in point.

 

This is inevitable.  I also rage against it... but in the end... it is inevitable.

[Midnight19]

if Bethesda makes the Modding Tools creation Club exclusive, or Bethesda Controlled mods only.

couldn't someone "Pirate" the CK ? and create an Underground sight for "Unapproved" mods ?

if Bethesda makes the Modding Tools creation Club exclusive, or Bethesda Controlled mods only.

couldn't someone "Pirate" the CK ? and create an Underground sight for "Unapproved" mods ?

maybe have the sight run out of Switzerland or some country that doesn't Care about US/EU Copy Right Bullshit ?

[bjornk]

This is inevitable.

Yes, so is the death of Beth.

[Yami X]

Companies that cannot monetize their products simply go under to competition.

The only way to prevent that is to either boycott the competition, or to funnel assets to the free provider willingly (this rarely happens).

 

How many of you use linux?   How many use apple or windows?

Case in point.

 

This is inevitable.  I also rage against it... but in the end... it is inevitable.

I wonder what it was that made gaming pretty awesome back in the days?:Hint consumers simply not putting up with obvious bullshit.

 

Apparently you can't use both Linux and Windows.

 

Also nihilism gets you nowhere I guess since death is also inevitable there's absolutely no point in taking care of yourself while your alive...

[Lodakai]

 

Companies that cannot monetize their products simply go under to competition.

The only way to prevent that is to either boycott the competition, or to funnel assets to the free provider willingly (this rarely happens).

 

How many of you use linux?   How many use apple or windows?

Case in point.

 

This is inevitable.  I also rage against it... but in the end... it is inevitable.

I wonder what was that made gaming pretty awesome back in the days?:Hint consumers simply not putting up with obvious bullshit.

 

Apparently you can't use both Linux and Windows.

 

Also nihilism gets you nowhere I guess since death is also inevitable there's absolutely no point in taking care of yourself while your alive...

 

 

Hah =)  Fair point.  

 

You should care about it,  I suppose, I just don't really see a way around it through this forum topic.  It helps to vent I guess.  I've just seen this circus before with EA, and it never really changes much.  They will do what they do and we only have our pocketbooks to speak for us.  Perhaps I should encourage more proactive efforts rather than fall into despair.  

 

But, regardless.  Although you can use both Linux and windows together..  very very few people do.  And I just don't really see that changing much.  Maybe I'm wrong.  Certainly hope I am.

 

ETA:  On a lighter note,   to remove from despair a little.  EA also went to a paid modification system with the sims.. but there are still PLENTY of free mods available for all of their sims franchise games.  So at least there is that..  it will not be the death of free mods.

[Yami X]

 

 

Companies that cannot monetize their products simply go under to competition.

The only way to prevent that is to either boycott the competition, or to funnel assets to the free provider willingly (this rarely happens).

 

How many of you use linux?   How many use apple or windows?

Case in point.

 

This is inevitable.  I also rage against it... but in the end... it is inevitable.

I wonder what was that made gaming pretty awesome back in the days?:Hint consumers simply not putting up with obvious bullshit.

 

Apparently you can't use both Linux and Windows.

 

Also nihilism gets you nowhere I guess since death is also inevitable there's absolutely no point in taking care of yourself while your alive...

 

 

Hah =)  Fair point.  

 

You should care about it,  I suppose, I just don't really see a way around it through this forum topic.  It helps to vent I guess.  I've just seen this circus before with EA, and it never really changes much.  They will do what they do and we only have our pocketbooks to speak for us.  Perhaps I should encourage more proactive efforts rather than fall into despair.  

 

But, regardless.  Although you can use both Linux and windows together..  very very few people do.  And I just don't really see that changing much.  Maybe I'm wrong.  Certainly hope I am.

 

To be fair I honestly don't blame you for feeling this way.

 

Such is the results of constant disappointment.

[swmas]

"Do not go gentle into that good night,

Old age should burn and rave at close of day;

Rage, rage against the dying of the light.

 

Though wise men at their end know dark is right,

Because their words had forked no lightning they

Do not go gentle into that good night.

 

Good men, the last wave by, crying how bright

Their frail deeds might have danced in a green bay,

Rage, rage against the dying of the light.

 

Wild men who caught and sang the sun in flight,

And learn, too late, they grieved it on its way,

Do not go gentle into that good night.

 

Grave men, near death, who see with blinding sight

Blind eyes could blaze like meteors and be gay,

Rage, rage against the dying of the light.

 

And you, my father, there on the sad height,

Curse, bless, me now with your fierce tears, I pray.

Do not go gentle into that good night.

Rage, rage against the dying of the light."

 

*Bob Dylan

[LidiaSun]

wow 15 pages is a lot for such conversation in tense.... I prefer reading 100 pages trying to find a way to make a mod work. 

 

p.s.1.  awaiting to read the next posts 

p.s.2. What I want to say is a HUGE THANKS to all the MODERS for my moded Skyrim.

 

[SleepyJim]

 

"Do not go gentle into that good night,

Old age should burn and rave at close of day;

Rage, rage against the dying of the light.

 

Though wise men at their end know dark is right,

Because their words had forked no lightning they

Do not go gentle into that good night.

 

Good men, the last wave by, crying how bright

Their frail deeds might have danced in a green bay,

Rage, rage against the dying of the light.

 

Wild men who caught and sang the sun in flight,

And learn, too late, they grieved it on its way,

Do not go gentle into that good night.

 

Grave men, near death, who see with blinding sight

Blind eyes could blaze like meteors and be gay,

Rage, rage against the dying of the light.

 

And you, my father, there on the sad height,

Curse, bless, me now with your fierce tears, I pray.

Do not go gentle into that good night.

Rage, rage against the dying of the light."

 

*Bob Dylan

 

Wait... You mean it wasn't Michael Caine?!

 

 

 

*Dylan Thomas

 

 

[Lodakai]

 

 

"Do not go gentle into that good night,

Old age should burn and rave at close of day;

Rage, rage against the dying of the light.

 

Though wise men at their end know dark is right,

Because their words had forked no lightning they

Do not go gentle into that good night.

 

Good men, the last wave by, crying how bright

Their frail deeds might have danced in a green bay,

Rage, rage against the dying of the light.

 

Wild men who caught and sang the sun in flight,

And learn, too late, they grieved it on its way,

Do not go gentle into that good night.

 

Grave men, near death, who see with blinding sight

Blind eyes could blaze like meteors and be gay,

Rage, rage against the dying of the light.

 

And you, my father, there on the sad height,

Curse, bless, me now with your fierce tears, I pray.

Do not go gentle into that good night.

Rage, rage against the dying of the light."

 

*Bob Dylan

 

Wait... You mean it wasn't Michael Caine?!

 

 

 

*Dylan Thomas

 

 

 

 

Ummm hellooooo... it was Rodney Dangerfield.

 

 

https://youtu.be/PcMxUMeVzrI

 

 

[sp4rkfist]

 

This is inevitable.

Yes, so is the death of Beth.

 

 

No, they wont. Rockstar killed GTA V modding and their game still on top 10 steam best seller. But I believe mods for TES 6 will be nowhere as good as TES V.

[Midnight19]

 

 

This is inevitable.

Yes, so is the death of Beth.

 

 

No, they wont. Rockstar killed GTA V modding and their game still on top 10 steam best seller. But I believe mods for TES 6 will be nowhere as good as TES V.

 

well Rockstar didn't Kill the Modding, their Damn Publisher (take Two) did

[Kimy]

There will always be modders who publish open source mods

Perhaps, but how will they learn to make them in the first place?

 

The same way we figured it out in the first place. Sparse documentation provided by Beth and a lot of trial and error.

 

[Lodakai]

Yeaa.. umm.  Im gonna have to ask you to..  pay for those mods.   That would be great.  mkay

[Jazzman]

Mass hysteria, the zeitgeist of today, mere randomly leads to a solution, more likely to a schooling by the administrations in the forums. And as usual folks follow the principle of electric dissociation - half of them run crying to the left, the others to the right. Jesus, we'll respond appropriately to Bethesda's actions when the time has come, not two times before. And the guideline is simple - the individual weighting of advantages and disadvantages, the actual profitability in the long run. We as modders did that for the very first time in 2003 on the Nexus, we simply abandoned those who demanded a payment for their work to their fate and never heard of them again.

[bjornk]

Does anyone seriously think that Bethesda will allow people to freely distribute something similar or identical to what they demand money for? Especially if it's something popular. Hell no! We'll all witness how certain mods get their C&D letters from the lovely Beth lawyers. Naturally you won't be able to download them from Nexus either. Well, looks like you'll have to pirate mods in the future if you are a poor peasant. You might as well pirate the whole thing if you really wish to play the next shitty Beth game.

[GrimReaper]

If they're smart they will snatch willing modders and supply them with the tools needed to make stuff that takes the community usually months or years to achieve, like a script extender or something that enables you to get animations into their middleware infested games. Bethesda isn't stupid, they're aiming to make money with that. The best way to do that is to supply mods that will be used by many other mods as a foundation. Maybe they'll even make it extra hard next time to make sure there won't be any competition from people who want to do it for free.

[Canaris]

 

 

This is inevitable.

Yes, so is the death of Beth.

 

 

No, they wont. Rockstar killed GTA V modding and their game still on top 10 steam best seller. But I believe mods for TES 6 will be nowhere as good as TES V.

 

 

But there is a difference.

GTA V is perfectly playable without an ounce of a mod.

Skyrim is not.