Paid mods and Bethesda announcement on the E3

[Jazzman]

If they're smart they will snatch willing modders and supply them with the tools needed to make stuff that takes the community usually months or years to achieve, like a script extender or something that enables you to get animations into their middleware infested games. Bethesda isn't stupid, they're aiming to make money with that. The best way to do that is to supply mods that will be used by many other mods as a foundation. Maybe they'll even make it extra hard next time to make sure there won't be any competition from people who want to do it for free.

Maybe we'll make the decisive free mods and tools incompatible to their thirty-pieces-of-silver stuff so that Judas is up to shit creek w/o a paddle, hmm? Hard pounding this, gentlemen, let's see who will pound longest. Psychological warfare on the eve of battle is quite decisive...

[bjornk]

Bethesda never really supplied proper tools or documentation for modders, as far as I know, for Skyrim at least. The only thing they've given to modders was the CK (which was shit and kept crashing) with the archive tool and the shitty documentation with it. We had to use 3rd party programs like TES5Edit to properly clean up and fix plugins, NifSkope to edit models, or BSAopt to unpack their archives and so on.

 

What I'm saying is, as I always say, modding is a community effort. From ideas to tools, documentation, testing a lot of effort from many different people go into it. Now that modding has become a thing, some mod makers dare to say that they deserve payment for their work. Yeah? Like you're smarter than all the other people who made modding a thing. In a more or less commercialized environment it's quite likely that everything will have a price tag on them, better keep that in mind.

 

By the way, the company who can't even QA their games promises QA for mods, what a joke.

[sp4rkfist]

 

 

 

This is inevitable.

Yes, so is the death of Beth.

 

 

No, they wont. Rockstar killed GTA V modding and their game still on top 10 steam best seller. But I believe mods for TES 6 will be nowhere as good as TES V.

 

well Rockstar didn't Kill the Modding, their Damn Publisher (take Two) did

 

 

Except they are defending Take Two action.

http://www.pcgamer.com/heres-rockstars-statement-about-take-two-shutting-down-gtas-openiv-modding-tool/

 

OpenIV is not a program to cheating online, might I add, which make Rockstar statement doesn't make sense.

[Midnight19]

 

 

 

 

This is inevitable.

Yes, so is the death of Beth.

 

 

No, they wont. Rockstar killed GTA V modding and their game still on top 10 steam best seller. But I believe mods for TES 6 will be nowhere as good as TES V.

 

well Rockstar didn't Kill the Modding, their Damn Publisher (take Two) did

 

 

Except they are defending Take Two action.

http://www.pcgamer.com/heres-rockstars-statement-about-take-two-shutting-down-gtas-openiv-modding-tool/

 

OpenIV is not a program to cheating online, might I add, which make Rockstar statement doesn't make sense.

 

Honestly i Stopped playing GTA 5 along time ago, so i am not really up to date on Rockstar

[Lodakai]

 

 

Honestly i Stopped playing GTA 5 along time ago, so i am not really up to date on Rockstar

 

 

 

That's because there is no GTALab  ^ ^

[Intrigued]

With all this complaining about Beth, why not make our own game? There are plenty of talented people waiting for a chance and experienced veterans who must be sick of Gambryo/Creation by now, so why not take a stab at making our own crowd-sourced game? Based on Unity/Unreal (just to get a free rendering engine without legal problems)?

I can't seem to find the "Mod ideas and plans" thread anymore (maybe I'm just overlooking something), but there were some cool ideas there, ranging from the "within the logic of the lore" to "Hy Dickdra" and dick-bearing dragons. We (appealing to the LL community as a whole right now) could try and pool together the various ideas and... curate them... into a coherent set of guidelines. There are some great storytellers here, so writing even a new world shouldn't be a problem.

This would just need good publicity on the LL page, a real good custom-built repository, and willingness from each and every one of us to pinch in on the project, with art, textures, man-hours in worldbuilding, animations, coding, writing, or money at least. I think a community-based approach should bypass the problem of most crowd-funded projects: communication with the donors.

 

Why? Well, each will have to answer the question of motivation for himself. For me, it'd be a general feeling of incompleteness in regards to exploring sex in games.

Fallout TTW: great sexual storylines - just check Breeder and Fertile Breeder; however, animations and stability are lackluster at best; game is aging bad now, gunplay just plain ol' sucks; F3 has atmosphere but the writing is shallow, FNV has better writing that F3, F4 and TESV, yet there is a lot to be asked for in the atmosphere department
Skyrim: Sexlab provides smoother transitions, 0Sex is pushing the boundaries of the Skyrim environment, BeeingFemale best pregnancy game mod ever; but Fallout TTW content feels more fleshed out writing-wise; combat is clunky compared to contemporary games
Fallout 4: "How linear can we be while still being classified as an open-world RPG?"

Metro series: not open world

The Witcher: Wiedzmin is artistically perfect, it would be an affront to mod it, especially with our favorite stuff

So why not stick it up to Beth and... leave them?
Make a true (spiritual) successor to Fallout 2, loaded with sexual innuendo and, with the right enabling perks, full on explicit scenes? This time with proper gunplay nicked from shooters that got it right.
Or make a proper quasi-medieval fantasy game with rape and ritual sex?

[Midnight19]

With all this complaining about Beth, why not make our own game? There are plenty of talented people waiting for a chance and experienced veterans who must be sick of Gambryo/Creation by now, so why not take a stab at making our own crowd-sourced game? Based on Unity/Unreal (just to get a free rendering engine without legal problems)?

 

I can't seem to find the "Mod ideas and plans" thread anymore (maybe I'm just overlooking something), but there were some cool ideas there, ranging from the "within the logic of the lore" to "Hy Dickdra" and dick-bearing dragons. We (appealing to the LL community as a whole right now) could try and pool together the various ideas and... curate them... into a coherent set of guidelines. There are some great storytellers here, so writing even a new world shouldn't be a problem.

This would just need good publicity on the LL page, a real good custom-built repository, and willingness from each and every one of us to pinch in on the project, with art, textures, man-hours in worldbuilding, animations, coding, writing, or money at least. I think a community-based approach should bypass the problem of most crowd-funded projects: communication with the donors.

 

Why? Well, each will have to answer the question of motivation himself. For me, it'd be a general feeling of incompleteness in regards to exploring sex in games.

Fallout TTW: great sexual storylines - just check Breeder and Fertile Breeder; however, animations and stability are lackluster at best; game is aging bad now, gunplay just plain' ol' sucks; F3 has atmosphere but shallow writing, FNV has better writing that F3, F4 and TESV, yet there is a lot to be asked for in the atmosphere department

Skyrim: Sexlab provides smoother transitions, 0Sex is pushing the boundaries of the Skyrim environment, BeeingFemale best pregnancy game mod ever; but Fallout TTW content feels more fleshed out writing-wise; combat is clunky compared to contemporary games

Fallout 4: "How linear can we be while still being classified as an open-world RPG?"

 

Metro series: not open world

The Witcher: Wiedzmin is artistically perfect, it would be an affront to mod it, especially with our favorite stuff

 

So why not stick it up to Beth and... leave them?

Make a true (spiritual) successor to Fallout 2, loaded with sexual innuendo and, with the right enabling perks, full on explicit scenes? This time with proper gunplay nicked from shooters that got it right.

Or make a proper quasi-medieval fantasy game with rape and ritual sex?

cool idea, maybe a Combination of something like the Sims and Fallout/TES ? with player customization, hell, you could even add in things form GTA (Driving, optional Crime) 

[Intrigued]

 

 

 

With all this complaining about Beth, why not make our own game? There are plenty of talented people waiting for a chance and experienced veterans who must be sick of Gambryo/Creation by now, so why not take a stab at making our own crowd-sourced game? Based on Unity/Unreal (just to get a free rendering engine without legal problems)?

I can't seem to find the "Mod ideas and plans" thread anymore (maybe I'm just overlooking something), but there were some cool ideas there, ranging from the "within the logic of the lore" to "Hy Dickdra" and dick-bearing dragons. We (appealing to the LL community as a whole right now) could try and pool together the various ideas and... curate them... into a coherent set of guidelines. There are some great storytellers here, so writing even a new world shouldn't be a problem.

This would just need good publicity on the LL page, a real good custom-built repository, and willingness from each and every one of us to pinch in on the project, with art, textures, man-hours in worldbuilding, animations, coding, writing, or money at least. I think a community-based approach should bypass the problem of most crowd-funded projects: communication with the donors.

 

Why? Well, each will have to answer the question of motivation himself. For me, it'd be a general feeling of incompleteness in regards to exploring sex in games.

Fallout TTW: great sexual storylines - just check Breeder and Fertile Breeder; however, animations and stability are lackluster at best; game is aging bad now, gunplay just plain' ol' sucks; F3 has atmosphere but shallow writing, FNV has better writing that F3, F4 and TESV, yet there is a lot to be asked for in the atmosphere department
Skyrim: Sexlab provides smoother transitions, 0Sex is pushing the boundaries of the Skyrim environment, BeeingFemale best pregnancy game mod ever; but Fallout TTW content feels more fleshed out writing-wise; combat is clunky compared to contemporary games
Fallout 4: "How linear can we be while still being classified as an open-world RPG?"

Metro series: not open world

The Witcher: Wiedzmin is artistically perfect, it would be an affront to mod it, especially with our favorite stuff

So why not stick it up to Beth and... leave them?
Make a true (spiritual) successor to Fallout 2, loaded with sexual innuendo and, with the right enabling perks, full on explicit scenes? This time with proper gunplay nicked from shooters that got it right.
Or make a proper quasi-medieval fantasy game with rape and ritual sex?

cool idea, maybe a Combination of something like the Sims and Fallout/TES ? with player customization, hell, you could even add in things form GTA (Driving, optional Crime) 

 

 

I was thinking more in the lines of making a primarily first-person Fallout-type game with vehicles, Battlefield/Metro style shooting, a truly open world, and carefully embedded sexual (both sensual and just plain rape or bestiality) content that does not detract from the game's style and feel - in other words, the game would feature sex as an integral mechanic of its design. Optional, but not arbitrarily forced into the game and storylines. Or the same thing, but in a medieval world.

I don't really have an image of a birds-eye-view game in my mind now, but that could work as well. Less effort, but do keep in mind the audiovisual stimuli will be... weaker.

 

[Lodakai]

 

So why not stick it up to Beth and... leave them?

Make a true (spiritual) successor to Fallout 2, loaded with sexual innuendo and, with the right enabling perks, full on explicit scenes? This time with proper gunplay nicked from shooters that got it right.

Or make a proper quasi-medieval fantasy game with rape and ritual sex?

 

There are a lot of problems with this.   

 

1: The engine - you would need an engine to run it on... that usually costs money, unless it is outdated.. in which case, there will not be enough interest in the end product. If you are just modding fallout.. then you are not really sticking it to bethesda.

2: Legality - making a fallout successor that does not involve bethesda is legally problematical.  So you would need funding toward legal representation.

3: Dedication - Everyone is excited about a project at first...   until people start to realize just how many hours are involved with building a game from scratch.  You will soon find people dropping off the face of any collaboration over time as interest wanes.  Unless of course you have funding to maintain interest.

 

TLDR:  Because.. lack of funding.

[CanadianBlueBeer]

 

 

 

With all this complaining about Beth, why not make our own game? There are plenty of talented people waiting for a chance and experienced veterans who must be sick of Gambryo/Creation by now, so why not take a stab at making our own crowd-sourced game? Based on Unity/Unreal (just to get a free rendering engine without legal problems)?

 

I can't seem to find the "Mod ideas and plans" thread anymore (maybe I'm just overlooking something), but there were some cool ideas there, ranging from the "within the logic of the lore" to "Hy Dickdra" and dick-bearing dragons. We (appealing to the LL community as a whole right now) could try and pool together the various ideas and... curate them... into a coherent set of guidelines. There are some great storytellers here, so writing even a new world shouldn't be a problem.

This would just need good publicity on the LL page, a real good custom-built repository, and willingness from each and every one of us to pinch in on the project, with art, textures, man-hours in worldbuilding, animations, coding, writing, or money at least. I think a community-based approach should bypass the problem of most crowd-funded projects: communication with the donors.

 

Why? Well, each will have to answer the question of motivation himself. For me, it'd be a general feeling of incompleteness in regards to exploring sex in games.

Fallout TTW: great sexual storylines - just check Breeder and Fertile Breeder; however, animations and stability are lackluster at best; game is aging bad now, gunplay just plain' ol' sucks; F3 has atmosphere but shallow writing, FNV has better writing that F3, F4 and TESV, yet there is a lot to be asked for in the atmosphere department

Skyrim: Sexlab provides smoother transitions, 0Sex is pushing the boundaries of the Skyrim environment, BeeingFemale best pregnancy game mod ever; but Fallout TTW content feels more fleshed out writing-wise; combat is clunky compared to contemporary games

Fallout 4: "How linear can we be while still being classified as an open-world RPG?"

 

Metro series: not open world

The Witcher: Wiedzmin is artistically perfect, it would be an affront to mod it, especially with our favorite stuff

 

So why not stick it up to Beth and... leave them?

Make a true (spiritual) successor to Fallout 2, loaded with sexual innuendo and, with the right enabling perks, full on explicit scenes? This time with proper gunplay nicked from shooters that got it right.

Or make a proper quasi-medieval fantasy game with rape and ritual sex?

cool idea, maybe a Combination of something like the Sims and Fallout/TES ? with player customization, hell, you could even add in things form GTA (Driving, optional Crime) 

 

[spoiler/]

I was thinking more in the lines of making a primarily first-person Fallout-type game with vehicles, Battlefield/Metro style shooting, a truly open world, and carefully embedded sexual (both sensual and just plain rape or bestiality) content that does not detract from the game's style and feel - in other words, the game would feature sex as an integral mechanic of its design. Optional, but not arbitrarily forced into the game and storylines. Or the same thing, but in a medieval world.

I don't really have an image of a birds-eye-view game in my mind now, but that could work as well. Less effort, but do keep in mind the audiovisual stimuli will be... weaker.

 

Heh. Combine'em.  Fallout 4 + Skyrim. Mech vs Magic.

 

(I'm surprised they haven't, since there are still items in the CK for FO4 from Skryim)

 

Now THAT would be fun.

 

[Intrigued]

 

 

 

 

So why not stick it up to Beth and... leave them?
Make a true (spiritual) successor to Fallout 2, loaded with sexual innuendo and, with the right enabling perks, full on explicit scenes? This time with proper gunplay nicked from shooters that got it right.
Or make a proper quasi-medieval fantasy game with rape and ritual sex?

 

There are a lot of problems with this.   

 

1: The engine - you would need an engine to run it on... that usually costs money, unless it is outdated.. in which case, there will not be enough interest in the end product. If you are just modding fallout.. then you are not really sticking it to bethesda.

2: Legality - making a fallout successor that does not involve bethesda is legally problematical.  So you would need funding toward legal representation.

3: Dedication - Everyone is excited about a project at first...   until people start to realize just how many hours are involved with building a game from scratch.  You will soon find people dropping off the face of any collaboration over time as interest wanes.  Unless of course you have funding to maintain interest.

 

TLDR:  Because.. lack of funding.

 

 

 

1. The engine - modern rendering engines such as UE4 and the latest CryEngine offer a model where you pay part of your profit instead of paying a license
2. You can make a spiritual successor without using the original intellectual property. Check Wastelands 2 ~ original Fallout 3 as the original successor to Fallout 2, without the Vault boy in it
3. How many people does LL have right now? If the community keeps talking about it, keeps the fuss alive with regular news updates - even with unfinished work, just screenshots from modeling or just pictures of screens with mountains upon mountains of code in them... I know well enough myself how much time coding takes, and I'd take a guess that using 3D artistic software is an even worse drag than C

It would take dedication. The question is, are we pissed at Todd's cohort hard enough to go through with this?

[Lodakai]

Wasteland 2 had a budget of 3 million dollars through kickstarter. Not to mention they already had the rights.

Again.. funding.

[Midnight19]

 

 

 

 

So why not stick it up to Beth and... leave them?

Make a true (spiritual) successor to Fallout 2, loaded with sexual innuendo and, with the right enabling perks, full on explicit scenes? This time with proper gunplay nicked from shooters that got it right.

Or make a proper quasi-medieval fantasy game with rape and ritual sex?

There are a lot of problems with this.

 

1: The engine - you would need an engine to run it on... that usually costs money, unless it is outdated.. in which case, there will not be enough interest in the end product. If you are just modding fallout.. then you are not really sticking it to bethesda.

2: Legality - making a fallout successor that does not involve bethesda is legally problematical. So you would need funding toward legal representation.

3: Dedication - Everyone is excited about a project at first... until people start to realize just how many hours are involved with building a game from scratch. You will soon find people dropping off the face of any collaboration over time as interest wanes. Unless of course you have funding to maintain interest.

 

TLDR: Because.. lack of funding.

 

1. The engine - modern rendering engines such as UE4 and the latest CryEngine offer a model where you pay part of your profit instead of paying a license

2. You can make a spiritual successor without using the original intellectual property. Check Wastelands 2 ~ original Fallout 3 as the original successor to Fallout 2, without the Vault boy in it

3. How many people does LL have right now? If the community keeps talking about it, keeps the fuss alive with regular news updates - even with unfinished work, just screenshots from modeling or just pictures of screens with mountains upon mountains of code in them... I know well enough myself how much time coding takes, and I'd take a guess that using 3D artistic software is an even worse drag than C

 

It would take dedication. The question is, are we pissed at Todd's cohort hard enough to go through with this?

1 I don't know about engines

2 yeah maybe a world where nuclear Armageddon happened in 1962 (Cuba missile crisis) and in the year 2??? A the remnants of the word are living in a feudal system . Some old word weapons still exist, but bows and arrowa, swords and spears etc are common place. And a group of mutants have abilitiesthat could be described as magic?

 

3 we have a dedicated community and plenty of highly skilled modders, who mostly work alone using one framework. imagine what they could do working together? And the modders who have certain skills could work on what they are good at. Hell, I Know Fuck all about 3D Modeling, textures, or Scripting , would be willing to pitch in, and since I can't afford to support anything Financially I'd be willing to contribute for free.

Not that I'd be much help though

 

 

to be fair todd probably has no say in the creation club. It's probably a zenimax thing

[dianadoesitbest]

Eveeryone is looking at this from a " I don't want to pay for more things mods should be free kind of view"   Actually I think this is a great.  Especially if you try to look at it from Bethesda's perspective.  It's like comparing people uploading to youtube, where to the content varies in quality and production to pitching a show idea to netflix and getting greenlit for a series. 

 

That's what the Creation Club looks like to me.  Modders who decide to try and make news mods are basically pitching thier idea to be greenlit by Bethesda much like a showrunner or writer would to Netflix or any television network. 

 

Also everyone is assuming that revenue is going to be generated on a per download basis and royalty fee.  I can tell you right now its not going to work like that.  Its going to be negotiated "Work for Hire" contracts for these modders. Meaning they get paid a fee as a private contractor  and Bethesda maintains ownership. 

 

Everyone is also overlooking the fact that this will essentially mean that what ever successful integration  of mods through this Creation club are probably going to carry over into development and implementation in future games.  Much like the VATS kill cam carried over into SKYRIM we see features implemented in the base game for Elder Scrolls 6.   Which means quicker release date for the next game, and the core team can focus more on content and story than developing new code to implement new features.

 

Another point is that Bethesda is only approaching certain modders in this case and not anyone can provide content.  They have pretty much approached these people already and they have signed on already.

Imagine if Chesko developed something that was fully intergrated into the base game.  Frostfall/Camprie/New Seed.  Now that bethesda actually has paid chesko for his work and owns the rights to the code they are free to release this as a base part of the then next game.

 

Thats my two cents

 

 

If valve could be trusted to hire the right people to curate it would be fine. They can't.

 

If bethesda would accede to not getting the lion's share of the money it would be fine. They can't.

 

If they would allow for fair and honest IP controls it might work. They won't.

 

That bethesda thinks they can "get the world's best modders" to essentially fix their broken bullshit is hubris of the highest order.

 

If most modders could be held to an honest standard based on fair output, it could be the working model. They can't.

 

and those are just the surface reasons.

 

And thus donations are a better solution, except very few people actually give.

 

So they'll try again.

 

 

 

 

 

 

If valve could be trusted to hire the right people to curate it would be fine. They can't.

 

If bethesda would accede to not getting the lion's share of the money it would be fine. They can't.

 

If they would allow for fair and honest IP controls it might work. They won't.

 

That bethesda thinks they can "get the world's best modders" to essentially fix their broken bullshit is hubris of the highest order.

 

If most modders could be held to an honest standard based on fair output, it could be the working model. They can't.

 

and those are just the surface reasons.

 

And thus donations are a better solution, except very few people actually give.

 

So they'll try again.

 

 

 

 

 

[Xeenx30]

Not sure really why people are even signing up to this so called "Club" in the hopes of making money, if it is indeed true the way the system works is you get three total flat payments (amounts decided by Bethesda softworks of course), and afterword you get nothing for each sale since you also supposedly turn over all the rights of your product over to them. 

For example if i was remaking the godawful armor of the crusader nonsense from oblivion to actually make sense, and not look like some generic middle ages western knight screaming "thou shalt die for you worship the wrong god heathen!". Then i could shrug it off since ultimately that armor technically is the intellectual property of Zenimax Media, and would have little in the the expectation of royalties for the sales of such a thing.

 

But speaking of the intellectual property of Zenimax Media, since apparently no one in the club is also thinking about that. What will happen to mods that are based on ideas from previous games? I don't think i need to remind anyone of how recently the authors of the Fallout 4 Chinese stealth armor mod had to quickly post on reddit, and state the one in the Bethesda video is not their work. This in addition to being concerned as to what will happen to their mod in the near future once Bethesda's version shows up in the Club store's debut. 

Now someone will try to use the Club Faq here as some form of defense, but anyone really can tell that "faq" was written by Marketing/PR, and not the Legal Department. The actual guidelines of what gets in to the club is ultimately up to a bunch of shadows at Bethesda Softworks or Zenimax Media itself, and it is clear at this point that the past intellectual property they own is exempt from any sort of made up "originality" statement from a non legally bounding pre-release faq.

 

However i suspect no one cares in the club. Since probably none of them even took it upon themselves to get a lawyer to examine their club contract,  explain to them their legal rights, and expectations of being in this program would be before signing it. And if Bethesda refused to give any of these people time to do such a thing, then i truly have no words to describe anyone who is currently laboring away in the creation club.

[Intrigued]

Wasteland 2 had a budget of 3 million dollars through kickstarter. Not to mention they already had the rights.

Again.. funding.

When it comes to burning through money, you'll find that 3 million isn't that much. If we are to discuss funding on a more serious level right now, we'd need the numbers: how many people have an account on LL, how many unique persons browse LL at least once a month, and what % of them would both have the extra money and the willingness to donate it.

Most importantly, though, you need to know what you want to spend it on.

Let's be honest with ourselves: 

• advertising - You can cross that one right out. That also removes the following point
• merchandise - In a project for the community by the community?
• producing physical copies - Are you sure about this ever becoming a problem?
• salaries - Most of the content producers here make stuff in their free time. If they went full-time into this, they'd need a salary, but can it be expected of them? I mean, they would have to give up their careers, people would find out what they're working on, shit will happen. A taboo game such as one featuring explicit (if artistic) sexual scenes will have to be produced part-time by anonymous enthusiasts
• recording things - Along with funding LL and a development system, this is really the only valid point regarding funding at this point. Even then, you'd be surprised by how many people there are that have professional-grade equipment. Furthermore, it would be invaluable to get input from someone who could say for sure if sound files from older games are usable or not.

Example from a different industry: rocket-building. Take a hobby model-builders and the Technical University of Vienna. Sounding rockets. With material... amassed from Eastern Europe, amateur rocketry achieved greater feats than Vienna did, with the boys over there making their stuff out of carbon fiber. Similar to how you can cut costs by acquiring a surplus flare rocket, a potential LL project might save money and time by adopting the techniques, technologies and assets of older games.

Developers can be reasoned with. They protect their assets, but they're not vicious cunts. Mostly. Take Echoes of the Zone, for example. You can see the Crysis animations from a mile away, but that project is not getting stomped into the ground yet.

 

Mimicking a method of implementation and possibly using derivations of someone's assets should be doable

[Intrigued]

 

 

 

 

 

 

So why not stick it up to Beth and... leave them?
Make a true (spiritual) successor to Fallout 2, loaded with sexual innuendo and, with the right enabling perks, full on explicit scenes? This time with proper gunplay nicked from shooters that got it right.
Or make a proper quasi-medieval fantasy game with rape and ritual sex?

There are a lot of problems with this.

1: The engine - you would need an engine to run it on... that usually costs money, unless it is outdated.. in which case, there will not be enough interest in the end product. If you are just modding fallout.. then you are not really sticking it to bethesda.
2: Legality - making a fallout successor that does not involve bethesda is legally problematical. So you would need funding toward legal representation.
3: Dedication - Everyone is excited about a project at first... until people start to realize just how many hours are involved with building a game from scratch. You will soon find people dropping off the face of any collaboration over time as interest wanes. Unless of course you have funding to maintain interest.

TLDR: Because.. lack of funding.

1. The engine - modern rendering engines such as UE4 and the latest CryEngine offer a model where you pay part of your profit instead of paying a license
2. You can make a spiritual successor without using the original intellectual property. Check Wastelands 2 ~ original Fallout 3 as the original successor to Fallout 2, without the Vault boy in it
3. How many people does LL have right now? If the community keeps talking about it, keeps the fuss alive with regular news updates - even with unfinished work, just screenshots from modeling or just pictures of screens with mountains upon mountains of code in them... I know well enough myself how much time coding takes, and I'd take a guess that using 3D artistic software is an even worse drag than C

It would take dedication. The question is, are we pissed at Todd's cohort hard enough to go through with this?

1 I don't know about engines
2 yeah maybe a world where nuclear Armageddon happened in 1962 (Cuba missile crisis) and in the year 2??? A the remnants of the word are living in a feudal system . Some old word weapons still exist, but bows and arrowa, swords and spears etc are common place. And a group of mutants have abilitiesthat could be described as magic?

3 we have a dedicated community and plenty of highly skilled modders, who mostly work alone using one framework. imagine what they could do working together? And the modders who have certain skills could work on what they are good at. Hell, I Know Fuck all about 3D Modeling, textures, or Scripting , would be willing to pitch in, and since I can't afford to support anything Financially I'd be willing to contribute for free.
Not that I'd be much help though


to be fair todd probably has no say in the creation club. It's probably a zenimax thing

 

 

1. Engine makers are coming to the realization that there's a bunch of artists who'd like to make a game, but don't have the capital to hire a team to make them a stable rendering engine. If the LL community'd try to monetize the fruits of their labors, it'd just have to give Unreal/CryEngine/Unity/whoever their 10-15%.
2. I'm actually writing a series of books a bit like that at the moment. Free time project. ETA 5 years.
3. That's what I'm counting on. If some master of rhetoric'd get the LL community on this, it'd be a larger development team than any triple-A developer has. Coordination will be a bitch

Todd most probably has nothing to do with this. He came into the business wanting to make classic-style RPGs. Still, he's the face of Bethesda. Every time you combine "open world", "bethesda", "mod support", and "paid" into one paragraph, someone, somewhere will throw a box of rotten eggs and tomatoes at a desecrated poster of Todd's face. It's the price of being at the very top.

[Kimy]

The problem with making a large game from scratch isn't funding. Modders work for free already, we're used to making stuff without funds. We obviously also have all the tools you need to get started (as long as you don't actually sell the game even the engines are largely free to use, so that's not the problem).

 

And while we -certainly- would have all the necessary talent on LL to make a great game, the problem would start where there is no way we'd even agree what exact sort of game to make. Just look at all the different themes and kinks we have here. Romance, BDSM, Beast stuff...the list is endless. You would be hard pressed to find more than five people who'd even want to work on the same genre.

 

Next thing is modders don't get paid, and in return most would refuse making stuff that's not -exactly- what they want. Why would you put in your time to create somebody else's vision anyway, if not getting paid? Coercing humans into doing something we otherwise wouldn't is why salaries were invented! There is a reason why almost every attempt to create large scale community projects fails and that's why. Volunteer teams not sharing the same vision will fall apart faster than a house of cards in a hurricane. I am not even talking about regular attrition, such as real life or personal issues getting into the team's way.

 

There is not a single really good large-scale open source game out there, that could even remotely compete with commercially made ones. Not one. The closest thing is 0AD, but that's not yet finished. Because nobody ever managed to assemble a team that lasted long enough to finish one.

[Guest]

"Creation Club is a collection of all-new content for both Fallout 4 and Skyrim. It features new items, abilities, and gameplay created by Bethesda Games Studios and outside development partners including the best community creators. Creation Club content is fully curated and compatible with the main game and official add-ons."

 

Milking it ... I guess the money they made from the DLCs weren't enough. If there are actually mods in this thing, they are most likely being used as an excuse for Bethesda to sell their own over-priced 'all-new content".

 

Why would we need this if the game is still the same? If we really want stuff that makes our character better, we can just make a mod. I'm pretty sure any assets that come out of bethesda aren't better than existing mods anyway.

[Sural Argonus]

I am not opposed to modders getting compensation for their work...some of them deserve it...hell a lot of them deserve a lot.

I just don't like the idea of Bethesda, Steam or other company dipping their fingers into it.  If we, the users, want to compensate, I say we should be able to...directly to the modders.  If a modder wants to do paid modding, sure. That's their prerogative.  If their mods are worth paying for, I would do it.  I *WILL NOT* give Bethesda, Steam or any other company money for mods.

[Intrigued]

 

 

 

The problem with making a large game from scratch isn't funding. Modders work for free already, we're used to making stuff without funds. We obviously also have all the tools you need to get started (as long as you don't actually sell the game even the engines are largely free to use, so that's not the problem).

 

And while we -certainly- would have all the necessary talent on LL to make a great game, the problem would start where there is no way we'd even agree what exact sort of game to make. Just look at all the different themes and kinks we have here. Romance, BDSM, Beast stuff...the list is endless. You would be hard pressed to find more than five people who'd even want to work on the same genre.

 

Next thing is modders don't get paid, and in return most would refuse making stuff that's not -exactly- what they want. Why would you put in your time to create somebody else's vision anyway, if not getting paid? Coercing humans into doing something we otherwise wouldn't is why salaries were invented! There is a reason why almost every attempt to create large scale community projects fails and that's why. Volunteer teams not sharing the same vision will fall apart faster than a house of cards in a hurricane. I am not even talking about regular attrition, such as real life or personal issues getting into the team's way.

 

There is not a single really good large-scale open source game out there, that could even remotely compete with commercially made ones. Not one. The closest thing is 0AD, but that's not yet finished. Because nobody ever managed to assemble a team that lasted long enough to finish one.

 

 

Producing names of successful fan-made games won't lead to much constructive debate outside of pure academia, but I will not spare myself the chance to name Renegade X. It is why I think making a theoretical design thread would be the best first start. Checking what the community downloads the most for the two most modded games on LL, it's... basically everything that is stable. Combat rape (defeat), post-combat punishment (mainly slavery, but also bondage), sexual consequences and other sex effects (pregnancy mods and sexual magic), and sex utility (erotic quest overhauls such as Sexlab Solutions). Right after that come sex quest mods, and then there's all the kink. I'm not even mentioning the base frameworks and all the schlongs, because they are a prerequisite.

 

From this, I'd sum it up into the following: first, a baseline game could be made for the common denominator in our kinks - a full RPG game with sex handling subsystems (integral, not jury-rigged as they are now), vanilla sex, configurable-realism pregnancy, combat rape, quest-directed sex with humans and beasts, 1.8 m 25-something women with C-D cup breasts. Once this is done, the individual interest groups could implement scale-able body parts, hardcore fetish bondage, guro, sex machines, and all associated questlines. And still, it will not be a shaft to the even less ordinary (for lack of a better expression) kink sub-communities of our LL community, because they will have an open SDK and a voice.

 

 

Too long; Didn't Read:

The common denominator needs to be discussed in a separate thread.

 

 

I am not opposed to modders getting compensation for their work...some of them deserve it...hell a lot of them deserve a lot.

I just don't like the idea of Bethesda, Steam or other company dipping their fingers into it.  If we, the users, want to compensate, I say we should be able to...directly to the modders.  If a modder wants to do paid modding, sure. That's their prerogative.  If their mods are worth paying for, I would do it.  I *WILL NOT* give Bethesda, Steam or any other company money for mods.

 

Which is why we have services like PayPal and Patreon. Donations of free will. But if a game developer decrees that the next installment in the series will only accept mods curated by the original developer(apps installed from a certain service... Win10), there's nothing the community can do about it other than not buy the game. And what will you do then, if you want new content? All that is left then is to make the whole thing yourself, from scratch

[Sural Argonus]

 

 

 

The problem with making a large game from scratch isn't funding. Modders work for free already, we're used to making stuff without funds. We obviously also have all the tools you need to get started (as long as you don't actually sell the game even the engines are largely free to use, so that's not the problem).

 

And while we -certainly- would have all the necessary talent on LL to make a great game, the problem would start where there is no way we'd even agree what exact sort of game to make. Just look at all the different themes and kinks we have here. Romance, BDSM, Beast stuff...the list is endless. You would be hard pressed to find more than five people who'd even want to work on the same genre.

 

Next thing is modders don't get paid, and in return most would refuse making stuff that's not -exactly- what they want. Why would you put in your time to create somebody else's vision anyway, if not getting paid? Coercing humans into doing something we otherwise wouldn't is why salaries were invented! There is a reason why almost every attempt to create large scale community projects fails and that's why. Volunteer teams not sharing the same vision will fall apart faster than a house of cards in a hurricane. I am not even talking about regular attrition, such as real life or personal issues getting into the team's way.

 

There is not a single really good large-scale open source game out there, that could even remotely compete with commercially made ones. Not one. The closest thing is 0AD, but that's not yet finished. Because nobody ever managed to assemble a team that lasted long enough to finish one.

 

 

Producing names of successful fan-made games won't lead to much constructive debate outside of pure academia, but I will not spare myself the chance to name Renegade X. It is why I think making a theoretical design thread would be the best first start. Checking what the community downloads the most for the two most modded games on LL, it's... basically everything that is stable. Combat rape (defeat), post-combat punishment (mainly slavery, but also bondage), sexual consequences and other sex effects (pregnancy mods and sexual magic), and sex utility (erotic quest overhauls such as Sexlab Solutions). Right after that come sex quest mods, and then there's all the kink. I'm not even mentioning the base frameworks and all the schlongs, because they are a prerequisite.

 

From this, I'd sum it up into the following: first, a baseline game could be made for the common denominator in our kinks - a full RPG game with sex handling subsystems (integral, not jury-rigged as they are now), vanilla sex, configurable-realism pregnancy, combat rape, quest-directed sex with humans and beasts, 1.8 m 25-something women with C-D cup breasts. Once this is done, the individual interest groups could implement scale-able body parts, hardcore fetish bondage, guro, sex machines, and all associated questlines. And still, it will not be a shaft to the even less ordinary (for lack of a better expression) kink sub-communities of our LL community, because they will have an open SDK and a voice.

 

 

Too long; Didn't Read:

The common denominator needs to be discussed in a separate thread.

 

 

I am not opposed to modders getting compensation for their work...some of them deserve it...hell a lot of them deserve a lot.

I just don't like the idea of Bethesda, Steam or other company dipping their fingers into it.  If we, the users, want to compensate, I say we should be able to...directly to the modders.  If a modder wants to do paid modding, sure. That's their prerogative.  If their mods are worth paying for, I would do it.  I *WILL NOT* give Bethesda, Steam or any other company money for mods.

 

Which is why we have services like PayPal and Patreon. Donations of free will. But if a game developer decrees that the next installment in the series will only accept mods curated by the original developer(apps installed from a certain service... Win10), there's nothing the community can do about it other than not buy the game. And what will you do then, if you want new content? All that is left then is to make the whole thing yourself, from scratch

I may not think like everyone else, but if there is something I don't like...I don't hand over my money.

 

That's why I hardly play MMOs anymore.  They are becoming Pay to Play in most cases...I can't afford that shit.  My money is a drop in the bucket to them, I know...but I can't afford to game like that, so I don't.

 

*IF* I choose to support a game developer or modder on Patreon or something, then I will.  And I do.  I am a patron of a bunch of game developers.  They keep putting out stuff I like, keep communicating with their patrons, I am good.  Big Company Game Developers...just expect because they have a big name, I should just throw cash at them and be happy with the shit they release.  

 

BioWare and Bethesda are quickly becoming developers I don't want to spend any more money on.  Fallout 4, was a mild disappointment...Andromeda was overhyped and ended up being just ok...and severely lacking in the support and DLC department.  Mind you that's my opinion and I don't care what anyone else thinks of my opinion.  That is how I feel. 

 

This new game BioWare is touting...whatever it's called...get's a "Meh" from me because of how I felt about Andromeda.  

 

Again...These are my opinions, and I know not everyone shares them, or even gives a flying fuck about them.  They are still mine.

 

I still think they need to stay out of the Paid Modding area...and let the modders do that on their own.

[Kimy]

Producing names of successful fan-made games won't lead to much constructive debate outside of pure academia, but I will not spare myself the chance to name Renegade X. It is why I think making a theoretical design thread would be the best first start. Checking what the community downloads the most for the two most modded games on LL, it's... basically everything that is stable. Combat rape (defeat), post-combat punishment (mainly slavery, but also bondage), sexual consequences and other sex effects (pregnancy mods and sexual magic), and sex utility (erotic quest overhauls such as Sexlab Solutions). Right after that come sex quest mods, and then there's all the kink. I'm not even mentioning the base frameworks and all the schlongs, because they are a prerequisite.

 

From this, I'd sum it up into the following: first, a baseline game could be made for the common denominator in our kinks - a full RPG game with sex handling subsystems (integral, not jury-rigged as they are now), vanilla sex, configurable-realism pregnancy, combat rape, quest-directed sex with humans and beasts, 1.8 m 25-something women with C-D cup breasts. Once this is done, the individual interest groups could implement scale-able body parts, hardcore fetish bondage, guro, sex machines, and all associated questlines. And still, it will not be a shaft to the even less ordinary (for lack of a better expression) kink sub-communities of our LL community, because they will have an open SDK and a voice.

 

What you listed there isn't a game, it's the components/sub systems of one. That most of this stuff is needed for an adult theme game is a given. The disagreements will start about what exactly to DO with the components. In other words: All this stuff you listed is pretty much what we modded into Skyrim. But in a from-scratch game you'd need to replace...you know...Skyrim. With brand new game.

 

Also (since I am not sure if you ever did actual game development before), before you can make -any- of this, you're looking at a very, very, very long period of time you wouldn't implement any actual fun adult stuff. You'd be making concept art, models, basic animations, textures and all the other foundations of a game for at least a year or two (at that's generous), before you can even think about implementing quests. Oh, sure, you could buy ready-made assets, but we were working under the assumption of having no funds, so the team would have to make ALL of this. From scratch. With a team of part-timers that miiiiight be able to put in 1-2 hours a day on average per person. If you don't believe me, look up 0AD and read through their change logs. They have been working on this project for absolute ages and are still nowhere near being done. Like them, we wouldn't want to make a silly pixel art game like most of these garage-made Indie games  (at least I don't think sex scenes in 8bit graphics are particularly stimulating), we'd want something commercial grade, so that's really what you're looking at.

 

Honestly, if there would be a realistic possibility to get a great "Adult Game Creation Engine" done here, I'd jump at it. Right away. I just can't see it happening. Probably because nobody ever completed a community project of this magnitude.

[Intrigued]

 

 

 

Producing names of successful fan-made games won't lead to much constructive debate outside of pure academia, but I will not spare myself the chance to name Renegade X. It is why I think making a theoretical design thread would be the best first start. Checking what the community downloads the most for the two most modded games on LL, it's... basically everything that is stable. Combat rape (defeat), post-combat punishment (mainly slavery, but also bondage), sexual consequences and other sex effects (pregnancy mods and sexual magic), and sex utility (erotic quest overhauls such as Sexlab Solutions). Right after that come sex quest mods, and then there's all the kink. I'm not even mentioning the base frameworks and all the schlongs, because they are a prerequisite.

 

From this, I'd sum it up into the following: first, a baseline game could be made for the common denominator in our kinks - a full RPG game with sex handling subsystems (integral, not jury-rigged as they are now), vanilla sex, configurable-realism pregnancy, combat rape, quest-directed sex with humans and beasts, 1.8 m 25-something women with C-D cup breasts. Once this is done, the individual interest groups could implement scale-able body parts, hardcore fetish bondage, guro, sex machines, and all associated questlines. And still, it will not be a shaft to the even less ordinary (for lack of a better expression) kink sub-communities of our LL community, because they will have an open SDK and a voice.

 

What you listed there isn't a game, it's the components/sub systems of one. That most of this stuff is needed for an adult theme game is a given. The disagreements will start about what exactly to DO with the components. In other words: All this stuff you listed is pretty much what we modded into Skyrim. But in a from-scratch game you'd need to replace...you know...Skyrim. With brand new game.

 

Also (since I am not sure if you ever did actual game development before), before you can make -any- of this, you're looking at a very, very, very long period of time you wouldn't implement any actual fun adult stuff. You'd be making concept art, models, basic animations, textures and all the other foundations of a game for at least a year or two (at that's generous), before you can even think about implementing quests. Oh, sure, you could buy ready-made assets, but we were working under the assumption of having no funds, so the team would have to make ALL of this. From scratch. With a team of part-timers that miiiiight be able to put in 1-2 hours a day on average per person. If you don't believe me, look up 0AD and read through their change logs. They have been working on this project for absolute ages and are still nowhere near being done. Like them, we wouldn't want to make a silly pixel art game like most of these garage-made Indie games  (at least I don't think sex scenes in 8bit graphics are particularly stimulating), we'd want something commercial grade, so that's really what you're looking at.

 

Honestly, if there would be a realistic possibility to get a great "Adult Game Creation Engine" done here, I'd jump at it. Right away. I just can't see it happening. Probably because nobody ever completed a community project of this magnitude.

 

 

I did play a small part in development once, but I'm specializing in a different field altogether. I know it can take a lot of time, but we've also got people here that aren't exactly artisans materializing something they are paid to do - the content producers here already have visions. What is more, they are quite similar. If we limit ourselves to looking at Skyrim's prostitution mods, all of the mod authors are basically doing the same thing, and it, in the extreme, it can be considered as nothing more than a competition who can more elegantly hack Skyrim. They all have the same core features. All of them have player prostitution, then one expands with pimping, while the other one provides hooks for the player to land in slavery.

I'll resummarize myself: once a game setting is agreed upon (post-apocalyptia, medieval kingdoms, or something else), a base game with a base suite of sex quests can be produced (keep the most downloaded mods in mind: everyone seems to like combat rape, prostitution, a sexual alternative to a charisma check, basic bondage, and animals). This community houses hardcore bondage fans, futa fans, even those that like parasite and demon infestations, and a necro connoisseur, we all share the same underlying base kinks.

 

I think that even an action RPG with only the common denominator of kinks featured integrally in it, with support for further expansion (where what used to be a mod would then be an expansion pack) would be a massive leap for the gaming world as a whole.

And let's talk numbers: what was the traffic on LL today? One thousand unique persons? Five thousand? Ten thousand? How many unique persons come here every month? Fifteen grand? After the initial idea is refined and compiled, pin it to the main page for all to see. Let's say only 1 % will have any time and capacity to help. Out of 15k, that will be 150 people. That's a decent-sized studio for a fresh start. And if the project garners just a bit of fame, how many more people will come to the project?

Speaking from personal experience, you'd be surprised just how much you can get by asking.

It boils down to motivation: a can-do attitude will get things going, and distilled, concentrated rage at what our favorite game series have become will have to suffice to keep it rolling

Edit - footnote for Kimy: the fan projects that actually made it ended up calling themselves studios. Check complete overhaul mods, for instance - made by 'studios', using nothing from the base game apart from the underlying code for the UI and the engine

[Ernest Lemmingway]

 

Producing names of successful fan-made games won't lead to much constructive debate outside of pure academia, but I will not spare myself the chance to name Renegade X. It is why I think making a theoretical design thread would be the best first start. Checking what the community downloads the most for the two most modded games on LL, it's... basically everything that is stable. Combat rape (defeat), post-combat punishment (mainly slavery, but also bondage), sexual consequences and other sex effects (pregnancy mods and sexual magic), and sex utility (erotic quest overhauls such as Sexlab Solutions). Right after that come sex quest mods, and then there's all the kink. I'm not even mentioning the base frameworks and all the schlongs, because they are a prerequisite.

 

From this, I'd sum it up into the following: first, a baseline game could be made for the common denominator in our kinks - a full RPG game with sex handling subsystems (integral, not jury-rigged as they are now), vanilla sex, configurable-realism pregnancy, combat rape, quest-directed sex with humans and beasts, 1.8 m 25-something women with C-D cup breasts. Once this is done, the individual interest groups could implement scale-able body parts, hardcore fetish bondage, guro, sex machines, and all associated questlines. And still, it will not be a shaft to the even less ordinary (for lack of a better expression) kink sub-communities of our LL community, because they will have an open SDK and a voice.

 

What you listed there isn't a game, it's the components/sub systems of one. That most of this stuff is needed for an adult theme game is a given. The disagreements will start about what exactly to DO with the components. In other words: All this stuff you listed is pretty much what we modded into Skyrim. But in a from-scratch game you'd need to replace...you know...Skyrim. With brand new game.

 

Also (since I am not sure if you ever did actual game development before), before you can make -any- of this, you're looking at a very, very, very long period of time you wouldn't implement any actual fun adult stuff. You'd be making concept art, models, basic animations, textures and all the other foundations of a game for at least a year or two (at that's generous), before you can even think about implementing quests. Oh, sure, you could buy ready-made assets, but we were working under the assumption of having no funds, so the team would have to make ALL of this. From scratch. With a team of part-timers that miiiiight be able to put in 1-2 hours a day on average per person. If you don't believe me, look up 0AD and read through their change logs. They have been working on this project for absolute ages and are still nowhere near being done. Like them, we wouldn't want to make a silly pixel art game like most of these garage-made Indie games  (at least I don't think sex scenes in 8bit graphics are particularly stimulating), we'd want something commercial grade, so that's really what you're looking at.

 

Honestly, if there would be a realistic possibility to get a great "Adult Game Creation Engine" done here, I'd jump at it. Right away. I just can't see it happening. Probably because nobody ever completed a community project of this magnitude.

 

 

In short, an adult RPG engine is largely the domain of commercial groups because of the costs, time, and labor involved in producing both the engine and the actual game built from it. The end quality of the games tend to vary wildly in terms of plot, complexity of play, and quality of graphics that must be supplied by the creators of individual games, not to mention development times. Even fairly simple games can take years to finish if only one or two people are working on it in their spare time. This is another reason that large, sandbox-style RPG development favors the commercial group over fan creation.

 

Companies like Bethesda could make a fortune licensing their engines to other developers, especially if they let them make necessary changes and/or optimizations needed for a given product. But the fear of intellectual property theft--plus arrogance, idiocy, or shortsightedness--tends to dissuade them from it. Not that this doesn't happen anyway.