Prison Overhaul Patched (LE)

[bicobus]

The argument you use against the idea are, in my insight, the same for the idea. Skyrim if before all else an open world: the player do whatever the player do. If the player behavior is so bad that the NPC of the game wants to kill of the character played, it's just up to the player to either accept that fate or just rebel and bring hell on that virtual earth. Beside, with the sanguine debauchery, wouldn't it allow for the player to continue playing even beyond death? Like, go through the execution to clear the bounty, deal with sanguine then come back to skyrim - "I'm back, bitches!".

You do that three of four times, and they might just try to seal you into a tomb, like those draugr. All bound and gagged, for good measure. And even then, it's not the end. Eventually, somebody will break into that tomb in search of treasures, setting you free in the same time. Talk about a villain...

That's just for the philosophical point.

 

For the technicality, well, you were brought to your initial execution by a cinematic for a reason. But I'm pretty sure you can transport stuff through magic portals. Or, at minimum, a cage on a chariot. But as I understand, it's the journey that's problematic: telling an object to go through a predefined route. However, you don't have to make the player travel the whole time, just show the depart and arrival. If something can happen in between, it can be determined by a encounter table.

A game is a play of mirrors, make believes, to take the player in a journey. As long as the story is believable; or put more crudely, as long as the player is properly fooled, why not?

 

Edit: sorry about my english. I'm due to bed and didn't read proof this post.

[boo]

 

I really love what you have done with this mod Inte! Prison overhaul never deserved to be abandoned! 

 

I know this has been asked before, but since nobody has brought it up in quite a while and it never got a proper answer. The execution of the PC. 

Don't get me wrong now, im against it usually but it just feels weird that in the beginning of the game you are about to be executed for simply crossing the border while in the same game you just serve your (pretty short) time in jail for mass murder and such.

 

What im suggesting is that if your bounty is high enough (10 000 perhaps, mcm configurable) the local Jarl will simply have your PC sentenced to death in 1-3 ingame days so the dragonborn can "enjoy" the prison overhaul content a final time. During this time, the PC will have to find a way to escape imprisonment and it really should be hard. If the PC is caught escaping, he/she should be knocked out by the guards and any further escape attempts should automaticly fail. 

 

This would at least make me think twice about commiting a murder for the dark brotherhood in a city, or killing Nazeem for the lulz again.

I think this would be immersive, and by all means such a feature would be disabled by default for those who would never want an execution in their game.

 

Furthermore, a death sentence event could be a bad outcome for Death alternative (PC gets framed) 

 

What do you all think?

 

Thanks.

 

Player execution, not possible.

TL;DR explanation.

 

 

 

There is no mechanism currently implemented in Skyrim or any way to make PC execution believable and/or immersive.

I've mentioned these before, but here are couple of examples.

 

     Example 1.

Say you have 10k g on your head. You know that is a capital offence. A guard starts running towards you to arrest, and eventually execute you, and ... what?  You are ... OK with that? "...Oh sure pathetic guard go ahead, arrest and then execute me, I'm just a dumbass Dolcett broad ... ", no that will simply just not work. You are the most powerful being in Skyrim after all. You can pretty much kill all the guards in the whole town with just a few shouts. You control the will of dragons, you can just call one and then ride it out of there like he is your boy toy.

 

     Example 2.

Let's say you are surprised by a POPBHs 'ambush' attack. Then they bind you really tight, not much you can do while in that 'condition' no matter how powerful you are. OK all immersive and believable so far.

 

But, here comes the part that does not work so well - namely the leash system we have. Currently the leash system (i.e. you obediently follow your captors) works, because if you don't your captors would simply kill you. But if you are being taken to be executed anyway, why would you follow your captors willingly?

 

Currently there is no system implemented in Skyrim where the PC can be picked up and carried somewhere. And no ... blank screen and you wake up at your destination does not count, because that is not immersive. If you do that, why even bother with any restraints at all? Just black screen into the cell, then black screen and ... dead, not worth your time.

 

There are plenty of mods out there that will 'script' kill the player, and I hate every single one.

 

One good example of that kind of script killing the player is ME.

I do not wish to bash the work @zaira put into that mod. But there, your master would blank screen you to the top of the Winterhold college and then she would be like " ... umm, that's right get into that X so I can shoot arrows at you until you die..."  . I've always Fus Ro Dah her off the top of the college when she said that, then my PC would just drop dead ... very immersive indeed ... maybe the Dragonborn has a weak heart?

 

Also, as I explained to @Queen Bee a long, long time ago, I find player killing to be a waste of time.

 

Your PC gets executed, then what?  You just load a save from before the arrest, and do the things you should've done in the first place in order for your game to continue? Like not getting your PC dead? 

Now, if there was a way to nuke all the saves for that PC upon his/her death so no 'rewind' was possible, then yes that would be immersive, but guess what? No one would play it. I sure wont. I wouldn't want to nuke my 700hr old PC.

 

You might argue, that the game itself kills the player all the time. True, but you try your darnedest not to allow that to happen.

For example the POPBHs kill my PC all the time, but I go down fighting which is very immersive to me. Whereas, the kind of execution that is possible in the game right now, is willful.

For example, @Kenjoka tried the execution ending as well. There I was ordered to willingly take my place for the execution (as if?), while my hands were free, and also gag-less, so I transformed into a vampire lord and killed all involved instead - way more immersive.  

 

So like I said, a waste of time.  

 

But feel free to debate any of these if you wish, and who knows? I might change my point of view.

 

 

 

 

Death Alternative: Captured handles this pretty well I think. If you are captured by Thalmor and answer questions badly you will be executed. However, at all times you can attempt to escape your bonds via a pretty well done little system.

 

Also, 2 more things:

1. Can I request a patch for Inigo?

2. When beast race muzzles are used, the mouth is still forced open causing clipping.

[minibw]

Just my 2 cents,  I think if the PC is getting raped and imprisoned and enslaved (and more!) in all these mods anyway then we already kinda have to accept that some NPCs can and do overpower them a lot.  Or else why even use these mods that puts the Dragonborn these kinds of compromising, helpless positions?

 

Honestly it's not even that unbelievable lol, I'm level 59 and even the wrong bandits can still give me some trouble

[Inte]

~ snippy ~ 

Death Alternative: Captured handles this pretty well I think. If you are captured by Thalmor and answer questions badly you will be executed. However, at all times you can attempt to escape your bonds via a pretty well done little system.

 

Also, 2 more things:

1. Can I request a patch for Inigo?

2. When beast race muzzles are used, the mouth is still forced open causing clipping.

I don't think DA handles this that well either. The escape mechanism aside, when they take you outside to be executed you are frozen in place until they finish the previous execution. Not very immersive at all, if my feet are free I would run, not just sit there. In my play through every time we get there I enable player's controls and start running away. Most times I get away, but sometimes they kill me trying to escape, now that is immersive.

 

1. Not sure what Inigo is.
2. That is a ZaZ AP problem, and a difficult one to solve. All gags (a muzzle also uses a gag as a base object) have the same set of keywords one of which is the "set_mouthopen" or something similar which, well sets the mouth open. Anyway the solution would be to make a new set of gags only for beast races that do not have that keyword. Then all the mods would have to check the race before equipping a gag, and choose the correct gag depending on the race.

[Inte]

Just my 2 cents,  I think if the PC is getting raped and imprisoned and enslaved (and more!) in all these mods anyway then we already kinda have to accept that some NPCs can and do overpower them a lot.  Or else why even use these mods that puts the Dragonborn these kinds of compromising, helpless positions?

 

Honestly it's not even that unbelievable lol, I'm level 59 and even the wrong bandits can still give me some trouble

 

My point was more about the available mechanisms to control the PC.

First, as it stands the only way to control the PC is by making it seem that the PC is going willingly to her death, not very immersive that.

Second, is the leash system - not believable when the end result is execution. The PC would not willingly follow her captor when the end game is her execution. We need 'something' to force the PC onto the execution block. Skyrim does not have that something.  

 

I too get defeated by SDc bandits on a regular basis. I'm level 66. And after they bind me really tight, all I can do is give them dirty looks.

[grenadenpizza]

 

Just my 2 cents,  I think if the PC is getting raped and imprisoned and enslaved (and more!) in all these mods anyway then we already kinda have to accept that some NPCs can and do overpower them a lot.  Or else why even use these mods that puts the Dragonborn these kinds of compromising, helpless positions?

 

Honestly it's not even that unbelievable lol, I'm level 59 and even the wrong bandits can still give me some trouble

 

My point was more about the available mechanisms to control the PC.

First, as it stands the only way to control the PC is by making it seem that the PC is going willingly to her death, not very immersive that.

Second, is the leash system - not believable when the end result is execution. The PC would not willingly follow her captor when the end game is her execution. We need 'something' to force the PC onto the execution block. Skyrim does not have that something.  

 

I too get defeated by SDc bandits on a regular basis. I'm level 66. And after they bind me really tight, all I can do is give them dirty looks.

 

 

Thats why you should have time to escape the cell at night, after a long day in the pillory

 

Or as you said, when you are about to be executed, you have the (slight) chance to leg it OR submit. How this would work, the PC is placed to the right of the block, without being handled by the leash system. Then if you submit, walk left to the block. If you want to resist, run right, and see if you can outrun the city guard in chains

 

Speaking of chains, i love how you can chose to use the DDe bindings when captured, that really makes this mod great! Sadly, i never found a way to use DDe devices in prison. Is this something you plan on implementing or do i just suck at finding this feature? 

[Inte]

True, running away from the guards while in full bondage gear could be futile, however it is more immersive than a willful execution. You're about to get dead either way, might as well run for it.

 

I did not implement DDe bondage gear for when inside the cell - I thought that would be too cruel and hopeless, no?

[grenadenpizza]

Exactly and if you behaved during your jail time you might "only" have wrist irons or rope on you, making it a little easier to run away. I just love the feeling when you escape certain death and have to start from scratch using whatever gear you find instead of always having full dragonscale armor, you know? 

 

Getting rid of the death sentence bounty might be troublesome once you escape though, so what about bribery? with... sex? Slavery? Im just thinking out loud here.

 

Yes that would be very cruel! I was thinking about the jailor, when he transports you to and from the cell he uses zaz gear. I understand now that i think of it, that it might be very difficult to implement a custom set of devices on scenes and use the collar script on DDe collars but, it would be nice.

[Inte]

Its like I've been saying all along, PC execution is pointless and a waste of time because it is a dead end.

I'm into a continuous narrative rather than get dead, then reload and avoid getting dead like you should have done in the first place.

 

Now, devious devices is another story entirely. Right now DD break too many animations to be usable while under arrest, but DDi Ver. 3.xx out of beta should bring better bound animations, and improved animation checks, so then I will probably use them everywhere (optionally of course).   

[grenadenpizza]

Alright, your mod, your choice.

 

Oh, better bound animations? This i like.  

[orgs1n]

 

I did not implement DDe bondage gear for when inside the cell - I thought that would be too cruel and hopeless, no?

 

Well, some inmates might appreciate a Deviously Helpless present being dropped off in their Populated Prison Cell...

[boo]

Inigo is a follower. Mod ID on nexus is 40960.

[Harry Smackmeat]

OMFG they even escort you to the prison!

'mershun increased to 69

HUH HOAH HAH!

 

Minor conflict with Immersive First Person View.  My hands aren't in the pillory thingy and, well, the animation has the head moving around.  A lot.  Easily worked around using TFC I guess.

 

Also, if I have the teleport effect on it levels my conjuration.  yay?

In Whiterun it puts a pillory thingy in front of a rug where the bum likes to hang out so he seems to have been evicted and spends his time sitting on the well instead. Not sure if the rug is vanilla or immersive citizens.

[Monkito]

Hey, have a Question.

What i have to do to make the german patch working ?
Installed Prison overhaul v.33 fix, then patch 8g and then german patch 8g but its still english.

And another question, how i can get harder punishment ?

I can only get caught for lockpicking and stealing, if i do something else the guards only want to kill me.

 

Thanks.

[Zhash61]

One idea I had...

 

Currently your jailer will reapply any DD's the pc was wearing when they were arrested.  What about a feature where, if you were not wearing DD's when arrested(but had them in your inventory), the jailer may equip a few of them on you.  Something like, "I noticed you had been carrying these before your arrest.  I think they would look good on you.

[Punga]

I found another exploit.

If you store your settings when "eluded arrest" is 0. Then restore your settings when it's not, it will make it 0 again.

[Monkito]

I have a problem.

Prison overhaul does not accept any changes via menu anymore. I tried force restart, Reinstalled it and now new game. Nothing works.

Also no more pop ready messages appears . any hints ? Thanks.

 

Dont know why it doesnt work anymore.

 

Edit :

 

I also dont get arrested anymore, no matter what i do.

 

po patches quest status NO, nothing changes that .

[Inte]

Sounds like the scripts don't fire.

Bad download? Delete everything and re-download/install. If using MO, check settings. No go? I need log.

I found another exploit.
If you store your settings when "eluded arrest" is 0. Then restore your settings when it's not, it will make it 0 again.

 

Ok, fixed in POP 8h.

One idea I had...

 

Currently your jailer will reapply any DD's the pc was wearing when they were arrested.  What about a feature where, if you were not wearing DD's when arrested(but had them in your inventory), the jailer may equip a few of them on you.  Something like, "I noticed you had been carrying these before your arrest.  I think they would look good on you.

 

Nice, I'll look into it.
 

Hey, have a Question.

What i have to do to make the german patch working ?
Installed Prison overhaul v.33 fix, then patch 8g and then german patch 8g but its still english.

And another question, how i can get harder punishment ?

I can only get caught for lockpicking and stealing, if i do something else the guards only want to kill me.

 

Thanks.

 

You'll have to ask @CGi.
 

[Inte]

OMFG they even escort you to the prison!

'mershun increased to 69

HUH HOAH HAH!

 

Minor conflict with Immersive First Person View.  My hands aren't in the pillory thingy and, well, the animation has the head moving around.  A lot.  Easily worked around using TFC I guess.

 

Also, if I have the teleport effect on it levels my conjuration.  yay?

In Whiterun it puts a pillory thingy in front of a rug where the bum likes to hang out so he seems to have been evicted and spends his time sitting on the well instead. Not sure if the rug is vanilla or immersive citizens.

 

I don't use IFPV so I never tested it. But if it involves the pillory then ZaZ AP might be a better place to report it or IFPV.  

 

About the teleport FX leveling conjugation, never thought about that. I'll change magic skill in ME to 'none' so that won't happen.

 

 

[Monkito]

Sounds like the scripts don't fire.

Bad download? Delete everything and re-download/install. If using MO, check settings. No go? I need log.

 

Hi.

 

I deleted everything, redownloaded V33Fix and Patch 8g again, installed normal with NMM ( installation seems fine ). Still no PoP messages. Force restart also doesnt do anything.

 

Sry but i have to ask how to get the log ?

[CGi]

Hey, have a Question.

What i have to do to make the german patch working ?

Installed Prison overhaul v.33 fix, then patch 8g and then german patch 8g but its still english.

 

And another question, how i can get harder punishment ?

 

I can only get caught for lockpicking and stealing, if i do something else the guards only want to kill me.

 

Thanks.

You'll have to ask @CGi.

i guess his game is installed in english and because xPOP follows Beths multi-language standard, the language of the base game is chosen - english in his case.

The only other possible causes are unlocalizing the plugin or replacing the german string tables with the english ones .... both very unlikely and unsupported.

[Monkito]

Ah ok, thank for info.
Well, i think as long as i don't get it working again, i think it doesn't matter anyway

[CGi]

Ah ok, thank for info.

Well, i think as long as i don't get it working again, i think it doesn't matter anyway

UK: What exactly isn't working, respectively what happpens?

 

DE: Was genau geht denn nicht, beziehungsweise was passiert denn?

[Inte]

 

Sounds like the scripts don't fire.

Bad download? Delete everything and re-download/install. If using MO, check settings. No go? I need log.

 

Hi.

 

I deleted everything, redownloaded V33Fix and Patch 8g again, installed normal with NMM ( installation seems fine ). Still no PoP messages. Force restart also doesnt do anything.

 

Sry but i have to ask how to get the log ?

 

Like in here.

 

http://www.loverslab.com/topic/22241-support-troubleshooting-guide-read-me-before-posting-here/?p=549438

 

Also make sure logging is enabled in POP MCM.

[Guest]

Suggestion

It would be nice to see other animations.

There are a few pillory animation from FunnyBizness and maybee a few more for the cell too.