Prison Overhaul Patched (LE)

[Slorm]

 

I'm not sure htis is relevant but the falling through the geometry seems to happen if you set off the fast forward while on the level where the cell is. From memory it works correctly if you set it off once at the same level as the pillory

 

I'll try that, thanks. You mean in the same cell (not jail cell, world cell) as the pillory? Outside the Windhelm palace/dungeon?

 

 

I suspect the problem is caused because the pc is actually beneath the level of the map marker, so if you use fast forward in the cell in the jailers place in effect you bounce off the underside of the ground (I'm guessing but it seems to make sense). Once you are at ground level it seems to work fine.

 

Thank you for your kind words (and Punga) but I really can't claim any credit here. I throw out a few suggestions now and again but it's Inte that's kind enough to do the real work updating the mod.

 

[Numerals]

I'd be happy to see more love to the Caged scenario, which currently only have the MCM option to toggle it.

 

Something like being able to select the gender of the cage inmate and punishment chance options like cell/pillory would be greatly appreciated. I'm not familiar with the latest versions of the Caged scenario, but having the option to substitute the cage inmate entirely when there's a follower on-tow would be awesome.

[BobtheZealot12]

Very nice mod (well, the definition of nice in this context is...debatable)

I have not downloaded the newest patch, so I don't know if this is still relevant.

A few suggestions:

1) TLDR: Bounty hunters should be immune to paralysis poisons

For all the cough console defeat you mentioned in the last patch notes, the bounty hunters have one major flaw: They are still vulnerable to paralysis. This can be exploited by, say anyone with hearthfire that can mass farm paralysis poison ingredients as soon as they get 6k gold. Now when you run into a bounty hunter, you can use any weapon faster than a power attack from a 2 handed weapon, which is what the bounty hunter uses most of the time, and hit them with a paralysis poison. They're not exactly hard to pick out from a crowd and if they are not using the feature in the new patch, very easy for you to get that first hit in. In this state, the bounty hunter will be paralyzed on the ground, unable to summon the 2 backup bounty hunters, or to resist your inevitable paralysis chaining and whatever else you want to do to them (i think you intended for it to be the other way around )

 

2) TLDR: MCM option to keep restraints on when arrested

Even with the exploit mentioned in 1), the bounty hunters are still stronger than all the guards in a hold combined. I can argue this applies even with the more guards mod from the nexus. This means it is not too hard to see a situation where a player chooses to not fight the bounty hunters, but can still make fools of the guards in the entire hold (skyrim AI anyone?). So after the 10th time you picked the key off the patrolling guard, set up your alteration defense spell, and ran out with a tanking summon and ethereal shout and whatever else you had (or simply ran and laughed at how the guards cant shoot arrows), you would think the authorities of Tamriel would grow a brain and not let you repeat that an 11th time. This would also allow the player to adjust how difficult it is to escape through the restraints option from one of the previous patches. Maybe have just the jail master re-equip restraints when they are missing to prevent them from being re-equipped all the time.

[majorfreak]

i actually had a problem with bounty hunters until i disabled it when this happened:  i outpaced them to winterhold, and they were hostile to me; a city guard placed me under arrest and immediately upon entering the cage the bounty hunters teleported into the jail and proceeded to massacre a fellow inmate and attacked me from outside my cell...i have Defeat enabled so it ended up putting me in submission pose forever. boo

[Sennarok]

Some questions about installation, because it's never worked right for me and the behavior of both LOOT and MO when trying to handle it seems bizarre.

 

1) Should POP be installed as a separate entry or merged to PO?

 

2) Assuming separate entry, PO should be *before* POP in the load order, yes? I ask this because LOOT and MO always sort PO after POP.

 

EDIT: I always install it like so, LOOT and MO be damned.

 

80~) Prison Overhaul v033 fix

81~) Prison Overhaul v033 8g

 

3) The installation instructions talk about force restarting PO before and after installing. Are either of those steps necessary on a clean (from scratch) save?

[Morferous]

Some questions about installation, because it's never worked right for me and the behavior of both LOOT and MO when trying to handle it seems bizarre.

 

1) Should POP be installed as a separate entry or merged to PO?

 

2) Assuming separate entry, PO should be *before* POP in the load order, yes? I ask this because LOOT and MO always sort PO after POP.

 

EDIT: I always install it like so, LOOT and MO be damned.

 

80~) Prison Overhaul v033 fix

81~) Prison Overhaul v033 8g

 

3) The installation instructions talk about force restarting PO before and after installing. Are either of those steps necessary on a clean (from scratch) save?

 

LOOT sorting XPO after POP can't be right. XPO is set as master for POP and LOOT parameters prevent child being sorted before parent. Are you indeed using LOOT (now v0.9.2) and not the badly outdated "Sort" button that was added to MO?

 

In any case, XPO should be loaded before POP in both right panel (load order) and left panel (resource priorities).

 

I advice against merging them. XPO has not been updated for a long time, but POP is* getting new updates. There is no point to merge them. Just as long POP is loaded after XPO in both views, then there are no conflicts between them.

 

* = Hopefully.

[Sennarok]

 

Some questions about installation, because it's never worked right for me and the behavior of both LOOT and MO when trying to handle it seems bizarre.

 

1) Should POP be installed as a separate entry or merged to PO?

 

2) Assuming separate entry, PO should be *before* POP in the load order, yes? I ask this because LOOT and MO always sort PO after POP.

 

EDIT: I always install it like so, LOOT and MO be damned.

 

80~) Prison Overhaul v033 fix

81~) Prison Overhaul v033 8g

 

3) The installation instructions talk about force restarting PO before and after installing. Are either of those steps necessary on a clean (from scratch) save?

 

LOOT sorting XPO after POP can't be right. XPO is set as master for POP and LOOT parameters prevent child being sorted before parent. Are you indeed using LOOT (now v0.9.2) and not the badly outdated "Sort" button that was added to MO?

 

In any case, XPO should be loaded before POP in both right panel (load order) and left panel (resource priorities).

 

I advice against merging them. XPO has not been updated for a long time, but POP is* getting new updates. There is no point to merge them. Just as long POP is loaded after XPO in both views, then there are no conflicts between them.

 

* = Hopefully.

 

 

LOOT definitely sorts 8g before v033 fix. I'm using a version of LOOT I installed 3 days ago launched through MO, I certainly hope it's the most recent version.

 

HOWEVER, this implies to me, especially because v033 fix I just checked out a bit closer has 'xazPrisonOverhaul.esp' as an *optional* esp, that something is up with v033 fix. Is IT meant to be a patch on the older verison of Prison Overhaul or something?

 

I started looking into this because I don't see any plugins at all for them on the right, now that I've actually thought to look at those.

 

 

[Morferous]

LOOT definitely sorts 8g before v033 fix. I'm using a version of LOOT I installed 3 days ago launched through MO, I certainly hope it's the most recent version.

 

HOWEVER, this implies to me, especially because v033 fix I just checked out a bit closer has 'xazPrisonOverhaul.esp' as an *optional* esp, that something is up with v033 fix. Is IT meant to be a patch on the older verison of Prison Overhaul or something?

 

I started looking into this because I don't see any plugins at all for them on the right, now that I've actually thought to look at those.

 

I am a bit confused. You said that LOOT sorts POP before XPO, but you do not see any plugins? LOOT only sorts plugin files on right, not mod folders on left. Am I misunderstanding you?

 

V033fix is a full mod, with BSA and ESP. POP is supposed to patch it.

[Sennarok]

 

I am a bit confused. You said that LOOT sorts POP before XPO, but you do not see any plugins? LOOT only sorts plugin files on right, not mod folders on left. Am I misunderstanding you?

 

V033fix is a full mod, with BSA and ESP. POP is supposed to patch it.

 

 

We're all a bit confused, mate.

 

I was not aware of this function of LOOT. Unless it sorts BSAs too, I don't know what it's doing, but after LOOT is run PO is after POP in MO's load order.

 

So I just cracked open the mods' contents and discovered some interesting things.

 

MO has the ESPs for both PO and POP in 'optional' folders in the mod, when no such structure exists in the mods pre-installation.

 

Enabling them in the optional ESPs pane of examining them is not successfully adding them to the plugins pane on the right. Which, to hear the optional ESPs pane tell it, is perfectly natural.

 

SO I just reinstalled them from scratch

 

Maybe there was some interaction with not having all the dependencies in place first maybe that screwed with them? I don't even know. I didn't think that even mattered as long as you got all the dependencies in order before you start fuckin' with them.

 

They still have optional ESPs, but both of them actually had the ESPs show up in the plugins window when enabled this time, and LOOT didn't do any shenanigans, which is new. Will report back with my findings, which may be a while 'cause I'm trying to solve a totally separate HDT issue at the same time.

[Morferous]

We're all a bit confused, mate.

 

I was not aware of this function of LOOT. Unless it sorts BSAs too, I don't know what it's doing, but after LOOT is run PO is after POP in MO's load order.

 

So I just cracked open the mods' contents and discovered some interesting things.

 

MO has the ESPs for both PO and POP in 'optional' folders in the mod, when no such structure exists in the mods pre-installation.

 

Enabling them in the optional ESPs pane of examining them is not successfully adding them to the plugins pane on the right. Which, to hear the optional ESPs pane tell it, is perfectly natural.

 

SO I just reinstalled them from scratch

 

Maybe there was some interaction with not having all the dependencies in place first maybe that screwed with them? I don't even know. I didn't think that even mattered as long as you got all the dependencies in order before you start fuckin' with them.

 

They still have optional ESPs, but both of them actually had the ESPs show up in the plugins window when enabled this time, and LOOT didn't do any shenanigans, which is new. Will report back with my findings, which may be a while 'cause I'm trying to solve a totally separate HDT issue at the same time.

 

 

Neither of these mods have any optional plugins. It may be that you double merged them by accident. I did that once with another mod.

 

LOOT does not sort BSAs at all in MO. They are managed by the order of MO left panel, which needs to be sorted manually. That is the tedious part of MO. Luckily, once you have done it once, then you rarely need to worry about it ever again - unless you happen to make a full reinstall of all your mods, which is usually not needed with MO.

 

You can mostly trust ordering the left panel according to how LOOT sorts the right panel. There are few exceptions. If you are in doubt, click the mod and see what it conflicts with, to determine if it needs to be above or below another mod.

 

[Sennarok]

 

Neither of these mods have any optional plugins. It may be that you double merged them by accident. I did that once with another mod.

 

LOOT does not sort BSAs at all in MO. They are managed by the order of MO left panel, which needs to be sorted manually. That is the tedious part of MO. Luckily, once you have done it once, then you rarely need to worry about it ever again - unless you happen to make a full reinstall of all your mods, which is usually not needed with MO.

 

You can mostly trust ordering the left panel according to how LOOT sorts the right panel. There are few exceptions. If you are in doubt, click the mod and see what it conflicts with, to determine if it needs to be above or below another mod.

 

 

 

Okay, let me just be sure I understand you crystal clear.

 

If I understand you: LOOT sorts the plugins and the plugins only in MO, such that - after LOOT sorts the plugins, you then have to manually order the priority (generally to match LOOT's work on the plugins) in MO's left pane? This being so that the BSAs are in the right order.

 

This isn't to say I haven't been sort of doing this, but it's nice to get confirmation.

[Morferous]

 

Okay, let me just be sure I understand you crystal clear.

 

If I understand you: LOOT sorts the plugins and the plugins only in MO, such that - after LOOT sorts the plugins, you then have to manually order the priority (generally to match LOOT's work on the plugins) in MO's left pane? This being so that the BSAs are in the right order.

 

This isn't to say I haven't been sort of doing this, but it's nice to get confirmation.

 

 

Yes. I will write it down, in case someone else needs confirmation as well.

 

Right panel

• Load order, including only Elder Scrolls Master (ESM) and ES Plugin (ESP) files.
• Sorted by LOOT, when being run through MO. "Sort" -button is badly out of date and should never be used.

 

Left panel

• Mod list, but also resource priorities.
• Manages which resources take effect in game. Those up have low priority, those below have higher priority. Higher priority files win conflicts and will take effect in game.
• Manages all resources, including scripts, textures, meshes (etc.) files that can conflict. Order for SKSE plugins is usually all the same.
• Needs to be sorted manually.

 

Tool data

• Managed by left panel, by creating mods out of output data stored to Overwrite folder.

 

I used the later part of this linked post to read how to sort tool data and mods in MO. Mod Organizer is not that strict, but author especially pointed it peoples who are new with MO and it's resource priorities. So far it has worked well. It is also occasionally updated, when "Coffee Room" crew in Steam finds out something new.

 

You can also find the tutorial from pinned topic on Steam forum, managed by the author. Post also shows known exceptions to load order, which LOOT does not yet sort correctly and would cause problems in the game, if left as they were.

 

http://steamcommunity.com/app/72850/discussions/0/523890681419356033/

[shiagwen]

Could you tell me the keyword to identify the devious devices ?

[Inte]

The general keyword is 'zad_Lockable'.

[gmattwsn]

Hey, Inte, I love what you've done with this mod.

 

Just a head's up, I've discovered a couple of incompatabilities:

 

-PO and POP do not play well with the current versions of JK's Skyrim. I've found that if you're in a cell that's altered by JK's Skyrim, the guards cannot arrest you through Prison Overhaul and you'll be dumped into the vanilla prison. Specifically, the player will be arrested through POP - paralyzed, tied up, and the guards/bounty hunters/designated arrester will have their fun, and then you'll get teleported to the dungeon as in vanilla. This happens to all versions of JK's Skyrim that I've tried, both in city cells and in towns. I think that you can get arrested through POP if you're in the wilderness, but the game wigs out when you get to the city and the jailer will never lead you out of your cell once you're locked up.

 

I don't know if this extends to other city or town overhauls.

 

-Second, there is a very small incompatability with The Notice Board. In Riften, the X-cross in the city square sits directly in front of the notice board outside The Bee and Barb. You can still read the board, but it looks a tiny bit silly. Then again, maybe adventurers want to have to reach around some naked criminal's body to get at the bandit bounties.

[shiagwen]

The general keyword is 'zad_Lockable'.

 

it didnt worked. i use dd assets plus nondd (nondd = ddx - limits from ddii) , made the keyword in nondd and wrote it in all items. but at arrrest all items went  into the chest. what else must be done to keep them ?

 

 

btw whipping in cage scenario does not work, prisoner stand there with whip drawn but doesnt do anything.

 parade all people around startet to whip the pc , is this the mob option ?  health was down in 2 seconds each time.

[Starbrow65]

In Riften, the X-cross in the city square sits directly in front of the notice board outside The Bee and Barb. You can still read the board, but it looks a tiny bit silly. Then again, maybe adventurers want to have to reach around some naked criminal's body to get at the bandit bounties.

 

I think that explains it very well. No need for a change here ...

 

[Inte]

 

The general keyword is 'zad_Lockable'.

 

it didnt worked. i use dd assets plus nondd (nondd = ddx - limits from ddii) , made the keyword in nondd and wrote it in all items. but at arrrest all items went  into the chest. what else must be done to keep them ?

 

 

btw whipping in cage scenario does not work, prisoner stand there with whip drawn but doesnt do anything.

 parade all people around startet to whip the pc , is this the mob option ?  health was down in 2 seconds each time.

 

What exactly are you trying to do?

 

Yes, the PC not getting whipped in the cage scenario is a known issue, although it only happens for some of the players. I'll increase the aggressiveness of the 'free' prisoner and see if that solves it for all.

 

Yes maybe the whip does too much damage, I was trying to make it more realistic.   

[shiagwen]

 

 

The general keyword is 'zad_Lockable'.

 

it didnt worked. i use dd assets plus nondd (nondd = ddx - limits from ddii) , made the keyword in nondd and wrote it in all items. but at arrrest all items went  into the chest. what else must be done to keep them ?

 

 

btw whipping in cage scenario does not work, prisoner stand there with whip drawn but doesnt do anything.

 parade all people around startet to whip the pc , is this the mob option ?  health was down in 2 seconds each time.

 

What exactly are you trying to do?

 

Yes, the PC not getting whipped in the cage scenario is a known issue, although it only happens for some of the players. I'll increase the aggressiveness of the 'free' prisoner and see if that solves it for all.

 

Yes maybe the whip does too much damage, I was trying to make it more realistic.   

 

i want to avoid dd integrity. too heavy mod. instead, assets without integrity does fine for fashion.  the mod " nondevious devices " has all the fashion from extension without integrity.

i would like to use the dda and nnd in po just as if integrity is there. i thought i just need to give them the keyword you use to identify them, but this didnt work. so there is something else missing.

whip more damage is realistic? - no. nothing realistic in skyrim. unrealistic to get 500 hitpoints by level up. the damage of the whip hurts a new character but a 500hp character laughs about it.  healing every damage in two seconds - unrealistic, but thats the game.

my opinion : damage from whip makes things unnecessary complicated, just take the damage off.   your mob scene would be great !  (much more worth than looking your health bar going down)

[NNS10]

Does Dawn of Skyrim or ETaC cause any incompatibilities with this?

 

Getting bored of vanilla skyrim and planning to add those two mods to my regular mod list.

[PubliusNV]

I don't use Dawn of Sykrim, but ETaC hasn't caused any problems for me.

[Saeros]

I started a new game with all my mods up to date.

I have PO_033fix and your latest POP_8g.

sometimes, when i load a save, POP resetting randomly and at top left-corner on the screen, appear "upgrading POP 8g..." etc.... 

 

is this normal?

 

thanks in advance.

cheers

 

S.

 

[karelmikie3]

Whenever I install this patch with estrus chaurus+, estrus chaurus+ will stop triggering the tentacle attacks.

[Tegani]

Does Dawn of Skyrim or ETaC cause any incompatibilities with this?

 

Getting bored of vanilla skyrim and planning to add those two mods to my regular mod list.

Dawn of Skyrim put a tree in the way of one of the Windhelm pillories so I'd always have to disable it, but otherwise I don't remember running into any issues.

[NNS10]

Bug Report: Bounty Gold level not setting to variable?

 

I noticed this after installing Timing is Everything. That mod also has an MCM setting to control at how much bounty gold is required before bounty hunters go after the PC. When I modified it in PO, it wouldn't update in Timing is Everything.

 

When I did "help crimegold" I noticed PO was not updating the WEbountyCollectorCrimeGoldRequirement variable. It's supposed to, right?