Maria Eden SE

[jc321]

47 minutes ago, zaira said:

prison and execution -> pamatronics

But yours is better. Original version where you were bound to cross to wait out various scenes and then released which then allowed you to sleep out remaining time. 

As for Parmatronics (no dis-respect here) but it speeds through to a conclusion (so more on the execution rather than the prison experience).

 

1 hour ago, zaira said:

It is extremely hard for me to find the right things in ZAP and I lost the motivation to spend so much time into it

 

So can't you just keep it simple. Stocks, cross, pole, and a couple of cages. Nothing else required?

 

50 minutes ago, zaira said:

Slave auction -> unclear, SimpleSlavery focuses on stability for the cost of immersion but I don't want to compromise on immersion

Yours is far better - (again no dis-respect to SS as it's good at it's job .. to tie in with other mods) Full immersion, again you can look through the bars and see things happening. Could be a whole expansion in itself. You could even expand on not being sold (which is something you had far back in the original ME ).

 

52 minutes ago, zaira said:

Toys is easy to use, extendable and pretty fast

I'm still a bit meh also on Toys but understand where you are coming from and having seen in used in other mods (from other authors) it certainly has potential. If there were restraints as those found in Heritical resources that would keep immersion (if that's what you were after). 

 

54 minutes ago, zaira said:

Defeat -> to be checked

You had great defeat mechanisms .. Being kept as a toy, being sold on to merchants to take you to a slave auction. All great immersion. Even if the Navigation was a pain in the backside maybe a 'knock on the head' and you end up in an auction, or a training school or kept as a toy would be good options (I think I've lost the case for being in a mine).

 

57 minutes ago, zaira said:

I will also reduce the locations - one Slave Training and one Brothel location so I can concentrate on these.

A shame since one of your versions had multiple training and brothels and worked quite well, but can understand why you want to focus on just 1.

 

58 minutes ago, zaira said:

The main quests that will remain are Slave of Follower, Brothel Business, light Prostitution in taverns and outside. Slave Training is unclear. All other quests are on a hit list for removal.

To me Slave training is one of the best bits. What made this mod stand out from others is it was more gritty and harsh compared with other mods which are mostly all consensual. With ME your being re-conditioned and with the interaction from NPC's realising who you now are and signing your rights away scenes were fantastic and great immersion. It's quite sad to know alot of quests we've probably never been able to see/play are on the chopping board. 

 

I guess there isn't a version (even if buggy)  we're able to download/play before it's lost? 

 

 

 

 

[zaira]

1 hour ago, jc321 said:

So can't you just keep it simple. Stocks, cross, pole, and a couple of cages. Nothing else required?

I might adopt some furnitures.

And I drop only if the alternative is reasonable. SimpleSlavery auction is not resonable.

Slave training depends on how easy it is to adopt the required furnitures.

Regarding locations - last word not spoken, but I concentrate on stabilization of the brothel in windhelm.

Defeat - not yet checked alternatives - must be reasonable

Prison - I plan a deep inspection of pamatronics version , I have made a deep inspection for Toys only

 

The NPC AI parts will be kept - every NPC who notice you as a slave or whore will treat you like scum.

Edited September 21, 2022 by zaira

[Jappa123]

10 hours ago, zaira said:

I see there are a few things more to say regarding the decision:

• ZAP was always a bit unstructured - my recommendation to split ZAP in to theme based sub packages (keywords & factions, BDSM furnitures, other furnitures, restraints, other stuff) was rejected.
  Now with the huge amount of additions the situation has gone worse.
  It is extremely hard for me to find the right things in ZAP and I lost the motivation to spend so much time into it.
  Additionally it has some major issues (at least for me) - the usage of keywords is not consquent and homogenous, the names of the thousand of items are not telling anything about their characteristics - I can only see the mesh in CK but not how it behaves in the game, so if the name and the keywords wont tell me something I have to test them in real game which costs very much time and efforts.
  Another show stopper is that beginning with ZAP8 some scripts interferes with furniture and restraints behavior which makes usage of them unpredictable.
• DD is also no option because its architecture has a to big impact on the way how I create my mod - it is overengineered for my purpose.
• Sexlab is very complex and slow - although it is powerful and mature I need something easier. And the SE version is very buggy in my setup.
• Toys is easy to use, extendable and pretty fast
• VirginMarie is very helpful and open to suggestions
• MEP is using only a very small amount of restraints - the most important are already in Toys and the missing ones are added to a "LoreFriendly" Toy package which I have already started - this package will be released separately.
• For the furnitures I consider a switch to pamatronics mods - but current MEP uses only a very small amount of furnitures.

Together with the switch I also decided to change the development focus - I drop every part where I find reasonable alternatives:
prison and execution -> pamatronics
Slave auction -> unclear, SimpleSlavery focuses on stability for the cost of immersion but I don't want to compromise on immersion

Defeat -> to be checked

Everything in MEP was developed in a way that it could be used as a framework - but I will drop this idea.

I will also reduce the locations - one Slave Training and one Brothel location so I can concentrate on these.

The main quests that will remain are Slave of Follower, Brothel Business, light Prostitution in taverns and outside. Slave Training is unclear. All other quests are on a hit list for removal.

Oh no, From what you have been saying you add so many new stuff last year and we didn't even had and chance to play it  Is there really no chance for release last version with zap? It does not have to be stable, let's be honest MEP was never a stable mod. 

[zaira]

Don't be scared, there will be new stuff

[VirginMarie]

11 hours ago, jc321 said:

If there were restraints as those found in Heritical resources that would keep immersion 

 

 

Toys&Love has several toys directly from HR, Included in the Ancient Toy Box which comes with the framework. There's more than are in this pic, such as the Anal Bell Chain, and the Nipple Tease Collar.

 

Then for more toys that are classical...  Classic Toy Box

 

Plus this new Toy Box newly out just today is great I hear... LoreFriendlyToys  

 

So your meh-ness might be based on not really knowing what it has to offer.

 

 

[jc321]

8 hours ago, VirginMarie said:

Toys&Love has several toys directly from HR, Included in the Ancient Toy Box which comes with the framework.

 

Hi @VirginMarie That's certainly good to see, thanks for the response. 

 

8 hours ago, VirginMarie said:

So your meh-ness might be based on not really knowing what it has to offer.

 

I'd whole heartedly agree with that statement

 

 

[Reigor]

Looking forward to the new version. I have always liked Maria Eden's harsh approach to slavery. The problem has been getting the darn thing to work.

 

@zaira since you are looking at defeat, have you considered some form of Death Alternative? Because the current play is slave execution reload a save. I really like how AAF:Violate plus Purgatory does it. The player can have a bad end from being defeated, dies, gets sent to "purgatory", and then gets resurrected at a safe spot missing their equipment (which is in a container near where they died). 

 

Something similar could be done with a cursed slave play, not even death is an escape. They could wake up at a temple free of any brands or other slave markings, or back at the market to be sold back into slavery again, or one of your other scenarios you might want the player to explore.  

[cmblue]

I actually went back to LE, since when I bought SE it did that rediculous update like 2 days after that broke loads of mods. A ME update will bring me back to SE so I'm very much looking forward to this. 

 

Not much to add to the discussion, just a vote of confidence!

[zaira]

On 9/21/2022 at 9:57 AM, BigOnes69 said:

Plus bad behavior in hijacking a mod for years then not expanding it should not be rewarded.

well - at the end t.ara has contributed a masssive load of assets and animations to the mod community - I am thankfull for that.
But the package architecture and the missing commitment to SE enforces me to get away from ZAP.

Soonish I will release a ZAP ultra light package which is based on ZAP 6 / 7 without scripts, magic effects and other bloatware.
Just a few or maybe no assets - but with the factions and most of the keywords. A compatibility layer will add ZAP keywords to Toys.
The package will use the same Form IDs than the old ZAP so that a lot of older ZAP based mods (including Maria Eden) will work with Toys.

Edited September 26, 2022 by zaira

[BigOnes69]

5 hours ago, zaira said:

well - at the end t.ara has contributed a masssive load of assets and animations to the mod community - I am thankfull for that.
But the package architecture and the missing commitment to SE enforces me to get away from ZAP.

Soonish I will release a ZAP ultra light package which is based on ZAP 6 / 7 without scripts, magic effects and other bloatware.
Just a few or maybe no assets - but with the factions and most of the keywords. A compatibility layer will add ZAP keywords to Toys.
The package will use the same Form IDs than the old ZAP so that a lot of older ZAP based mods (including Maria Eden) will work with Toys.

The fact remains that expansion of mods relying on ZAP were held up for years. ZAP needed an overhaul and the architecture, features, and commitment could have been done separate and the massive assets and animations could have been done separate instead of concentrating the pretty first over that of function and usability as a framework. To me it was hijacked and now its not usable for SE because of the pretty.

Edited September 26, 2022 by BigOnes69

[vjnmrf]

1 hour ago, BigOnes69 said:

The fact remains that expansion of mods relying on ZAP were held up for years. ZAP needed an overhaul and the architecture, features, and commitment could have been done separate and the massive assets and animations could have been done separate instead of concentrating the pretty first over that of function and usability as a framework. To me it was hijacked and now its not usable for SE because of the pretty.

 

All * developed * ZAP after version 7 can be described with one phrase from a joke - * we only have camel shit left from food, but there is a lot of it *

[zaira]

Don't be so harsh - even ZAP < 8 had some serious issues, it is full of unfinished things and some of t.aras assets are really awesome and worth to be used.

[vjnmrf]

1 hour ago, zaira said:

Don't be so harsh - even ZAP < 8 had some serious issues, it is full of unfinished things and some of t.aras assets are really awesome and worth to be used.

 

And no one argues with this. But it’s somehow difficult to call the development of mod the stupid addition of everything in a row without solving the existing problems.
The only advantage of version 7 is that it is small, so there are few unnecessary scripts and crooked animations. Once I tried to register animations from there for *Public Whore*... Damn, I shouldn't have done it!
So, it is used mainly as a stub and something for decorations.

[VirginMarie]

My perspective on ZAP... people, not everyone, but many, tend to think of it as a framework, putting it in the same category of other frameworks. 

But it's not a framework. It's a resource pack. Its right there in the name.... Animation Pack. It's not just animations in the pack, but also great art assets for toys and furniture that go along with those animations. The latest author contributed greatly to these art assets, and the animations.

 

So, if you think of it as being a resource pack, one that become open sourced to all... it's fine. But it did bloat. It got huge, and that's its main problem. However nothing is stopping you from just integrating those great assets into your mod, if you only need a few, or even a dozen. That's what I did for Shout Like a Virgin and Dark Desire Club. Maybe someone will make a light version to use!

 

Many mods have bloated and become worse instead of better due to bloat, but also depends on who's eyes you are looking through to judge the point of bloat  

[BigOnes69]

15 hours ago, VirginMarie said:

My perspective on ZAP... people, not everyone, but many, tend to think of it as a framework, putting it in the same category of other frameworks. 

But it's not a framework. It's a resource pack. Its right there in the name.... Animation Pack. It's not just animations in the pack, but also great art assets for toys and furniture that go along with those animations. The latest author contributed greatly to these art assets, and the animations.

 

So, if you think of it as being a resource pack, one that become open sourced to all... it's fine. But it did bloat. It got huge, and that's its main problem. However nothing is stopping you from just integrating those great assets into your mod, if you only need a few, or even a dozen. That's what I did for Shout Like a Virgin and Dark Desire Club. Maybe someone will make a light version to use!

 

Many mods have bloated and become worse instead of better due to bloat, but also depends on who's eyes you are looking through to judge the point of bloat  

I tend to disagree and agree on some things. She does make pretty look even prettier and is very talented but whether you agree on if its a framework or not does not matter what matters is the way it was controlled and the time it took (years) to get it off the table. I have been on this website since its beginning so have seen many things, arguments, creations etc. It was a community resource after it was no longer being worked on and was needed for the advancement of other mods. There were too many dependent mods to say it was not a framework or resource. The other mods had to develop their own resources to work which delayed development across the board. Zaira had to do this for this mod. I remember the arguments going back and forth over the direction of ZAP. It was not pretty. Whats done is done but if I was a modder I would not use it for the future is not stable.

[VirginMarie]

6 hours ago, BigOnes69 said:

I tend to disagree and agree on some things. She does make pretty look even prettier and is very talented but whether you agree on if its a framework or not does not matter what matters is the way it was controlled and the time it took (years) to get it off the table. I have been on this website since its beginning so have seen many things, arguments, creations etc. It was a community resource after it was no longer being worked on and was needed for the advancement of other mods. There were too many dependent mods to say it was not a framework or resource. The other mods had to develop their own resources to work which delayed development across the board. Zaira had to do this for this mod. I remember the arguments going back and forth over the direction of ZAP. It was not pretty. Whats done is done but if I was a modder I would not use it for the future is not stable.

 

My first mod, SLaVE, years ago, stopped using ZAP for these reasons. Instead it had to integrate the assets. Same reason I just finished doing the same for Dark Desires Club. For me it's about reducing support headaches, and simplified install. ZAP was for DDC, its #1 source of install issues. We are on the very same page.

[most_wanted]

Hi Zaira I really like how you decided to organize\wrap things up, I think it's the right call.

I was pretty interested in what you wrote not so long ago, can I ask if you plan to implement them?

Thanks

 

Quote

What I have almost finished is a complex tavern economy quest - working in a tavern as a servant, dancer or whore.

I spent a lot of time in Simple Needs and Being Females support and updated the outfit system to support heels, wigs and piercings so the NPCs can now recognize and react if you wear those things.

I plan to introduce Skooma addiction - you get slightly forced into prostitution for your Skooma dealer in order to get you next Skooma shot. Simple Needs is responsible for the addiction effects.

 

[zaira]

These points are not affected from Toys & Love switch

[zaira]

Short status update: MEP switched completely over from Sexlab and ZAP to Toys. Now I'm in bugfixing phase and removing some relics from ZAP and Sexlab

[vjnmrf]

16 minutes ago, zaira said:

Short status update: MEP switched completely over from Sexlab and ZAP to Toys. Now I'm in bugfixing phase and removing some relics from ZAP and Sexlab

 

The fact that the output is in the foreseeable future is very pleasing. And about this question ... I remember you once mentioned that there would be a connection with survival and pregnancy mods. And which ones?

[zaira]

3 hours ago, vjnmrf said:

connection with survival and pregnancy mods. And which ones?

Being Female and Mini Needs

[jc321]

4 hours ago, zaira said:

Short status update: MEP switched completely over from Sexlab and ZAP to Toys. Now I'm in bugfixing phase and removing some relics from ZAP and Sexlab

 

Sounds promising. 

 

Happy to offer services for German to English translation if need be.

[Executaball]

Current full English translated ESPs for v2.5.3:

MariaEden v2.5.3 SE - English Translation.zip

 

Dictionary XMLs for xTranslator:

MariaEden v2.5.3 SE - English XML Mappings.zip

 

MariaBase ~ 2162 words

MariaProstitution ~ 38,400 words

 

Other 3 were below 100 words each.

Edited October 23, 2022 by Executaball

[Jappa123]

A lot of mods related to ME appearing lately is that mean that we can expect update for ME soon? 

[zaira]

Well, I spend a lot of time in Toys transition - maybe